Bitcoin Forum
August 23, 2019, 07:55:40 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 0.18.0 [Torrent] (New!)
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 ... 2281 2282 2283 2284 2285 2286 2287 2288 2289 2290 2291 2292 2293 2294 2295 2296 2297 2298 2299 2300 2301 2302 2303 2304 2305 2306 2307 2308 2309 2310 2311 2312 2313 2314 2315 2316 2317 2318 2319 2320 2321 2322 2323 2324 2325 2326 2327 2328 2329 2330 [2331] 2332 2333 2334 2335 2336 2337 2338 2339 2340 2341 2342 2343 2344 2345 2346 2347 2348 2349 2350 2351 2352 2353 2354 2355 2356 2357 2358 2359 2360 2361 2362 2363 2364 2365 2366 2367 2368 2369 2370 2371 2372 2373 2374 2375 2376 2377 2378 2379 2380 2381 ... 2567 »
  Print  
Author Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information  (Read 2755912 times)
mczarnek
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 527
Merit: 500


View Profile
March 21, 2014, 02:38:47 AM
 #46601

Very important!
Can't say why but trust me, if this is possible, it'd huge for Nxt

Is it possible to create multiple signature addresses without one person knowing all the private keys used to generate it?

Something along the lines of, person A generates part of the key, passes it to person B who generates part two, who passes it to person C who generates the final key?  Then any 2 out of those 3 keys is needed to unlock it?

Thanks!
That is how multisig works. Usually none of the parties knows the others private keys.

I dont think I can divulge any details about this regarding NXT, yet

However I am pretty sure CfB used the magic word "multisig" in one of his recent posts

James

P.S. I agree that multisig will be a massively useful feature

Yeah, there are many reason that multisig will be huge once implemented.

For this specific idea, I understand regarding the unlocking part, do you know about the creating part?

As I understand it one person has to know all keys used originally to create the public key were held by one person or machine during the creation, then they disperse the private keys and are trusted to destroy them, right?  Or is it possible for the public key to be created in parts with no one person knowing the private key at any point in time?

BitSend ◢◤Clients | Source
www.bitsend.info
█▄
█████▄
████████▄
███████████▄
██████████████
███████████▀
████████▀
█████▀
█▀












Segwit | Core 0.14 | Masternodes
XEVAN | DK3 | Electrum soon
Bitcore - BTX/BTC -Project












BSD -USDT | Bittrex | C.Gather | S.Exchange
Cryptopia | NovaExchange | Livecoin
Litebit.eu | Faucet | Bitsend Airdrop













████
 ████
  ████
   ████
    ████
     ████
      ████
       ████
        ████
       ████
      ████
     ████
    ████
   ████
  ████
 ████
████

████
 ████
  ████
   ████
    ████
     ████
      ████
       ████
        ████
       ████
      ████
     ████
    ████
   ████
  ████
 ████
████
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1566546940
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1566546940

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1566546940
Reply with quote  #2

1566546940
Report to moderator
rickyjames
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 196
Merit: 100


View Profile
March 21, 2014, 02:51:13 AM
 #46602


This is why we MUST allow denominating AE trades in any other asset. USD, BTC, EUR, JPY, GLD, WTI, BCO, etc.

Does anybody really think that allowing trades to be denominated in USD (or BTC or ...) will do anything other than help NXT? It wont affect USD to any noticeable degree.


Bitcoin is our bitter enemy that has a HUGE head start and will destroy us if they can, possibly without even realizing or caring that they have.  

Creating an NXT exchange and then just saying, "welcome to our nice shiny new exchange and go right ahead to price stuff in the BTC currency that is used by 90%+ of all transactions now instead of pricing them with our struggling-to-be-born NXT currency" just seems crazy and suicidal to me.

That is why we MUST allow denominating AE trades only in NXT (or maybe USD since THAT won't affect NXT (or help Bitcoin) to any noticeable degree).

Look at it this way.  Let's start with NXT-only asset denomination and let it go for six months or a year or whatever.  If it doesn't work, THEN open it up to BTC asset pricing.

You can always start with NXT only asset pricing and open up later to BTC/Doge/etc pricing LATER.  You can NEVER go back to NXT only pricing if you START with open pricing of all PoW sh*tcoins, the howls of protest would be overwhelming and kill us.

Doesn't it make sense to initially at least TRY to run an exchange with ONLY the coin WE CREATED AND ARE TRYING TO BREATHE LIFE INTO?  


P.S. If we end up helping BTC by .01% is that really such a bad thing? After all, how BTC goes, all crypto goes at least for the near future. Once we have billions of dollars of trading in NXT AE, then BTC wont matter much anyway.

It's gonna matter a lot when BTC pricing chokes out NXT pricing of assets as more and more Bitcoin users flock to our exchange and never make the switch to being NXT users for anything more than tiny exchange fees.
 
TodaysCrypto
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 27
Merit: 0


View Profile
March 21, 2014, 02:53:57 AM
 #46603

Smiley


Today's crypto coin is Nxt!

http://www.todayscryptocoin.com/Nxt/

@TodaysCrypto



 Smiley
jl777
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1176
Merit: 1090


View Profile WWW
March 21, 2014, 02:54:46 AM
 #46604

Could there be assets within NXT that exceed the market cap of NXT?  Certainly.  I don't see the problem.
I do agree with a lot of what you are saying, not all, but the above is what I am confused by.

Let us create a hypothetical OPEC oil for gold market in AE. There is $1 billion worth of oil assets and $1 billion worth of gold assets. Let us assume there is 1 million NXT available to be used for this market. We fix the price of NXT at 5 cents for the duration of the following events. I hope it is not unreasonable to assume a fixed NXT price for a small timeframe.

oil guys want to sell a small amount, say $10 million before lunch.
gold guys want to buy a small amount of oil, say $10 million worth before lunch.

Please explains to me how this will work in the AE.

Sell order oil asset $10 million -> 5 cents = 200 million NXT
Buy gold assets with the 200 million NXT we got for the oil

or

Sell order gold assets $10 million for 200 million NXT
Buy order $10 million of oil assets for 200 million NXT

Which of the above two scenarios will happen before lunch? Or maybe a third scenario? How will the oil guys and gold guys make this happen? Do you really not see a problem here?

James

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
mczarnek
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 527
Merit: 500


View Profile
March 21, 2014, 02:57:01 AM
 #46605

The question is do we want everything in AE to be traded via NXT.
If the market really wants this, there will be AssetA <-> AssetB direct trading.

I see no reason to force NXT as intermediate store when trading AssetA to AssetB.  NXT will be used to pay transaction (bid/ask) fees.

Furthermore, we should not let any fears of devaluing NXT prevent many kinds of uses of the NXT blockchain.  NXT will always be needed to create an entry into the public ledger as a transaction fee, and should gain in value as more uses are created.  (And IMHO, fees should be kept exceptionally low to encourage widespread adoption and use -- money flows to efficiency).

Q1. Do you want USD assets to exist within NXT AE?
c) $1 billion USD
Q3. If all AE trades are denominated in NXT, then how do you propose actually dealing with $1 billion USD deposit.

The asset issuer either has the reputation and means to satisfy withdrawals to real USD via gateway(s), or it doesn't.  Once it doesn't, then those assets become worthless and trade for pennies on the dollar -- Simply issuing 1 Billion 'USD' assets does not make it worth $1 Billion.

I am assuming the asset issuer merits trust, eg. large international bank. Let us assume there is an automated gateway so you can always safely redeem your USD assets. [ok nothing is "safe", this is a thought experiment to evaluate denominating things in AE in USD]

Do you see the problem, actually impossibility of anybody depositing $1 billion into NXT AE if all AE transactions are denominated in NXT? Maybe there is a way to break transactions up into itty bitty pieces and use up all of the NXT available in the liquid form, but not only will that create extreme volatility for the hypothetical large USD transaction, why would anybody with a $1 billion USD even attempt such insanity. So not impossible, but highly improbable

Usually people who control $1 Billion+ dont do stupid things. Putting in 30 times the market cap into a trading platform that limits trading to whatever NXT is available from the market cap (5%?) would qualify as idiotic. Anybody that does that will instantly be fired, or no longer be a billionaire.

This is why we MUST allow denominating AE trades in any other asset. USD, BTC, EUR, JPY, GLD, WTI, BCO, etc.

Does anybody really think that allowing trades to be denominated in USD (or BTC or ...) will do anything other than help NXT? It wont affect USD to any noticeable degree.

James

P.S. If we end up helping BTC by .01% is that really such a bad thing? After all, how BTC goes, all crypto goes at least for the near future. Once we have billions of dollars of trading in NXT AE, then BTC wont matter much anyway.

Have given myself a little time to digest the idea, and propose an argument in favor of denomination in NXT.

Consider that every asset pair needs a market for bid/ask to be filled.  When denominated in NXT, N assets provide N markets.  However, if assets are traded directly then would require N! (N factorial) markets, which gets LARGE VERY QUICKLY.  Therefore, direct trading by asset pair could greatly limit available liquidity in any single market.

NXT-denominated:
For a $1 Billion investor who wanted to trade A for B, and does so by A -> NXT -> B.  NXT-denominated provides exactly two markets on which to fulfill orders.

Anything-denominated:
For the same $1 Billion investor who wants to trade A for B in an 'anything denominated exchange' would have to evaluate POSSIBLY THOUSANDS of markets for the best trade values to end up with the same trade.  Perhaps today A->BTC->DOGE->LTC->MOON->B is the best value, and tomorrow is something different (and, could get far more convoluted than that!).

Also remember, a $1 Billion investor could not even make an investment that large unless there were associated asks for the bids...

Could there be assets within NXT that exceed the market cap of NXT?  Certainly.  I don't see the problem.

edit: Consider NXT function in this case as BTC functions today: the 'gold standard' of cryptocurrencies.  And not gold as in 'best', but in which all others are denominated.  Very few altcoins have direct trades to fiat or any other altcoin.  Does that mean no alt could ever exceed the market cap of Bitcoin?  I think not.

No, it wouldn't be factorial, it'd be N(N-1) because every asset would have to know it's price relative to every other asset, there are N assets, each of which needs to be traded against N-1 other assets.. right?

I would still price them all in Nxt from a marketing and learning the value of a Nxt perspective..  no person can remember N(N-1) prices and figure out a base price from that mess.  If other currencies on their become popular, you can trade them based on their prices in those currencies.  But maybe they'll be 200 currencies on their that are popular enough for us to worry about pricing items against them?  I wouldn't include prices for every single alt coin for example.

But initially, yes everything must be denominated in terms of Nxt until we are bigger than Bitcoin.  Otherwise it's kind of like free advertising for them.

BitSend ◢◤Clients | Source
www.bitsend.info
█▄
█████▄
████████▄
███████████▄
██████████████
███████████▀
████████▀
█████▀
█▀












Segwit | Core 0.14 | Masternodes
XEVAN | DK3 | Electrum soon
Bitcore - BTX/BTC -Project












BSD -USDT | Bittrex | C.Gather | S.Exchange
Cryptopia | NovaExchange | Livecoin
Litebit.eu | Faucet | Bitsend Airdrop













████
 ████
  ████
   ████
    ████
     ████
      ████
       ████
        ████
       ████
      ████
     ████
    ████
   ████
  ████
 ████
████

████
 ████
  ████
   ████
    ████
     ████
      ████
       ████
        ████
       ████
      ████
     ████
    ████
   ████
  ████
 ████
████
jl777
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1176
Merit: 1090


View Profile WWW
March 21, 2014, 02:57:36 AM
 #46606

Very important!
Can't say why but trust me, if this is possible, it'd huge for Nxt

Is it possible to create multiple signature addresses without one person knowing all the private keys used to generate it?

Something along the lines of, person A generates part of the key, passes it to person B who generates part two, who passes it to person C who generates the final key?  Then any 2 out of those 3 keys is needed to unlock it?

Thanks!
That is how multisig works. Usually none of the parties knows the others private keys.

I dont think I can divulge any details about this regarding NXT, yet

However I am pretty sure CfB used the magic word "multisig" in one of his recent posts

James

P.S. I agree that multisig will be a massively useful feature

Yeah, there are many reason that multisig will be huge once implemented.

For this specific idea, I understand regarding the unlocking part, do you know about the creating part?

As I understand it one person has to know all keys used originally to create the public key were held by one person or machine during the creation, then they disperse the private keys and are trusted to destroy them, right?  Or is it possible for the public key to be created in parts with no one person knowing the private key at any point in time?
In bitcoin a multisig acct is created deterministically from the three public keys. anybody who has the three public keys can create the corresponding multisig acct.

However two of the three (or three of the three) will need to sign it for it to be valid.

Do not assume NXT multisig will work in the same way

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
rickyjames
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 196
Merit: 100


View Profile
March 21, 2014, 02:59:19 AM
 #46607

But initially, yes everything must be denominated in terms of Nxt until we are bigger than Bitcoin.  Otherwise it's kind of like free advertising for them.

+ 1 Billion NXT
dhit
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 20
Merit: 0


View Profile
March 21, 2014, 03:03:34 AM
 #46608

I would hope for NXT denomination, & certainly not FRNs.  I understand why you wouldn't want to use another CC, but the CC with the largest market cap is probably best, as it is truly defined by market.  Gold would be preferable to FRNs, though its perceived value is manipulated as well.
rickyjames
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 196
Merit: 100


View Profile
March 21, 2014, 03:13:35 AM
 #46609

PLEASE VOTE IN THIS POLL:

What currency should be used to price and purchase Assets on the upcoming NXT Asset Exchange?


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=524432.msg5814924#msg5814924
BrianNowhere
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 70
Merit: 10


View Profile WWW
March 21, 2014, 03:17:11 AM
 #46610

With a very few exceptions, I believe the top 100 holders in all the cryptos control the vast, vast majority.
Most coins start with a community of much less than 100 active miners and with the way the blockrewards are done, after the first month (or week or day or hour), 90% of the coins that will exist in the next few years are mined. In a lot of cases less than a half dozen control more than 50%.

This is before it hits any exchanges, so it is almost impossible for more than 100 people to get the initial "distribution"

Why people single NXT out for this, I dont know. Maybe BTC is a bit better due to its maturity and DOGE due to its user base size, but is LTC, NMC, AUR, etc. any better distributed? Doubtful.

There are a few coins, that attempt to get a fair distribution, but did they really? Short of real world kyc, nobody really knows.

In any case, how this is relevant escapes me. In the real world, there are people who are born into money or win the lottery. While people envy them, are their constant crys for them to just give their wealth away? A lot of them end up doing it anyway and if NXT lasts long enough, father time will take care of redistribution to the next generation.

James


NXT: 4957831430947123625
jl777
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1176
Merit: 1090


View Profile WWW
March 21, 2014, 03:17:36 AM
 #46611


This is why we MUST allow denominating AE trades in any other asset. USD, BTC, EUR, JPY, GLD, WTI, BCO, etc.

Does anybody really think that allowing trades to be denominated in USD (or BTC or ...) will do anything other than help NXT? It wont affect USD to any noticeable degree.


Bitcoin is our bitter enemy that has a HUGE head start and will destroy us if they can, possibly without even realizing or caring that they have.  

Creating an NXT exchange and then just saying, "welcome to our nice shiny new exchange and go right ahead to price stuff in the BTC currency that is used by 90%+ of all transactions now instead of pricing them with our struggling-to-be-born NXT currency" just seems crazy and suicidal to me.

That is why we MUST allow denominating AE trades only in NXT (or maybe USD since THAT won't affect NXT (or help Bitcoin) to any noticeable degree).

Look at it this way.  Let's start with NXT-only asset denomination and let it go for six months or a year or whatever.  If it doesn't work, THEN open it up to BTC asset pricing.

You can always start with NXT only asset pricing and open up later to BTC/Doge/etc pricing LATER.  You can NEVER go back to NXT only pricing if you START with open pricing of all PoW sh*tcoins, the howls of protest would be overwhelming and kill us.

Doesn't it make sense to initially at least TRY to run an exchange with ONLY the coin WE CREATED AND ARE TRYING TO BREATHE LIFE INTO?  


P.S. If we end up helping BTC by .01% is that really such a bad thing? After all, how BTC goes, all crypto goes at least for the near future. Once we have billions of dollars of trading in NXT AE, then BTC wont matter much anyway.

It's gonna matter a lot when BTC pricing chokes out NXT pricing of assets as more and more Bitcoin users flock to our exchange and never make the switch to being NXT users for anything more than tiny exchange fees.
 
Have you seen the super giant volumes ripple is getting in their XRP markets? A whopping 20 BTC might trade all day in the bitstamp/XRP market. That is their biggest market. Assuming we can match that within NXT AE, how much will that impact things?

People trade pairs they are used to. For whatever reason it is what happens. Few alts trade in any volume against USD, even though most people have heard of USD. Everyone is used to trading crypto against BTC. Even with fiat vs fiat, people start trading a contract in one direction, eg AUDUSD and that is what 99% of the people trade, even though USDAUD is perfectly tradable.

Do you want to create a new market or provide a service to an existing market?

Do you know which one goes ten times (or more) faster?
Do you know which one is ten times (or more) less expensive?

Decentralized trading without a central exchange is something the market is ready for. Being goxed for however many millions has made this very clear. If you dont want 10% of crypto trading in NXT AE, just say so. How much trading is that? How much money would be flowing through NXT?

This is similar to the whole tax rates issue. A lot of people thing that the higher the tax rate, the more tax revenues will come in. This is true to a certain extent at certain ranges, but this does not mean a 99.9999% tax rate brings in the most revenue. In fact, historically the optimum level of taxation seems to be closer to 10%. Yes 10%. At that level, it isnt worth cheating on the taxes or spending money on lawyers and accountants. A surprisingly large amount of money is spent on lawyers and accountants to save percentage points on taxes. The bottom line is it is just a tax of a different form.

By making the tax cost very reasonable, basically nobody complains and economies grow as fast as possible. Now in a more mature economy, a higher rate probably makes sense, but if you make it too high, people cheat, lawyer up,or simply move.

What does this have to do with the issue at hand? I claim that forcing trades to go through NXT is just like a tax. There are two orderbooks, each with a bid/ask spread. Every single trade will cost more. Not only are you asking people to trade TWO new pairs that they are unfamiliar (uncomfortable) with, you are asking them to pay much higher spreads.

Bottomline, I predict doing this we will see whopping ripple level volumes other than what current NXT'ers trade BTC for. Notice it is the NXT/BTC pair that people will trade.Not because we force them to with AE, but because that is what they are used to trading

If you want NXT AE to be the place for people to buy Anon's silver and for some virtual companies and some cryto/NXT trading, then NXT AE wont become very big.

Aha! You sly devil. That is your plan so that the NXT 1.0 becomes the primary thing?
I dont understand why NXT 1.0 and NXT AE cant coexist. If you really just want a NXT coin, might I suggest nodecoin Smiley

James

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
jl777
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1176
Merit: 1090


View Profile WWW
March 21, 2014, 03:20:13 AM
 #46612

Consider that every asset pair needs a market for bid/ask to be filled.  When denominated in NXT, N assets provide N markets.  However, if assets are traded directly then would require N! (N factorial) markets, which gets LARGE VERY QUICKLY.  Therefore, direct trading by asset pair could greatly limit available liquidity in any single market.

No, it wouldn't be factorial, it'd be N(N-1) because every asset would have to know it's price relative to every other asset, there are N assets, each of which needs to be traded against N-1 other assets.. right?

Oops, not factorial.  You are correct, but divided by two (if ask/bid grouped as single market) So is: N * (N-1) / 2

Consider 6 assets A, B, C, D, E, and F:

A<->B
A<->C
A<->D
A<->E
A<->F
B<->C
B<->D
B<->E
B<->F
C<->D
C<->E
C<->F
D<->E
D<->F
E<->F

Consider 1000 assets:
499500 markets.

This is not relevant. The market wants what the market wants. We cannot force people to trade pairs they dont want to trade. They will simply not do it, other than the occasional inventory rebalancing.

I believe most trading will go through NXT.
I just want to have the ability to satisfy the market demand. This is a marketing thing. Find a need and fill it. Not have a feature and convince people they want it. That is not easy at all

James

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
jl777
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1176
Merit: 1090


View Profile WWW
March 21, 2014, 03:23:34 AM
 #46613

However, I want to make sure that if OPEC wanted to start trading oil for gold, or oil for CNY, or oil for pink unicorns that they will have a viable option with NXT AE

Sure.  Split it up into smaller units.

Oil price: 2617 NXT per barrel ($99.43)
Gold price: 35079 NXT per oz ($1332.99)

Trade individually on the OIL <---> NXT and GOLD <---> NXT markets.

Could someone dump $1 Billion into it?  Possibly? -- it depends if there are sellers.   Market capitalization of NXT does not change that.

Please remember market capitalization is a very simple metric, and is not  the guiding metric for valuation.  Don't give it more weight than it has.

You really expect these rich oil and gold guys to split up their orders just because we say so? You really dont think they might want to just to a direct deal?

Trying to force rich guys to do silly things will make them just laugh at us. Is NXT AE the ONLY option for the rich guys. Oh wait, they have been trading oil for years and we are trying to capture existing markets. Lets make it as hard and complicated as possible for them. That usually works really well, especially with rich guys who dont like taking long lunches and afternoons with their mistresses

James

P.S. hopefully nobody who takes long lunches or has only one mistress was offended by the above

James

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
jl777
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1176
Merit: 1090


View Profile WWW
March 21, 2014, 03:26:16 AM
 #46614

PLEASE VOTE IN THIS POLL:

What currency should be used to price and purchase Assets on the upcoming NXT Asset Exchange?


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=524432.msg5814924#msg5814924

This is unfair poll. You dont have what I am advocating.

Default trading in NXT, but allow the option to trade in other assets

Option does not mean obligation. I fully expect a lot of trades to be denominated in NXT, maybe 99%, but why limit ourselves? Why not have the option???

James

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
jl777
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1176
Merit: 1090


View Profile WWW
March 21, 2014, 03:27:27 AM
 #46615

But initially, yes everything must be denominated in terms of Nxt until we are bigger than Bitcoin.  Otherwise it's kind of like free advertising for them.

+ 1 Billion NXT
You are right, nobody has heard of BTC or USD. What was I thinking, giving them free PR

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
CycleSurfer
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 189
Merit: 10


View Profile
March 21, 2014, 03:28:00 AM
 #46616


This is why we MUST allow denominating AE trades in any other asset. USD, BTC, EUR, JPY, GLD, WTI, BCO, etc.

Does anybody really think that allowing trades to be denominated in USD (or BTC or ...) will do anything other than help NXT? It wont affect USD to any noticeable degree.


Bitcoin is our bitter enemy that has a HUGE head start and will destroy us if they can, possibly without even realizing or caring that they have.  

Creating an NXT exchange and then just saying, "welcome to our nice shiny new exchange and go right ahead to price stuff in the BTC currency that is used by 90%+ of all transactions now instead of pricing them with our struggling-to-be-born NXT currency" just seems crazy and suicidal to me.

That is why we MUST allow denominating AE trades only in NXT (or maybe USD since THAT won't affect NXT (or help Bitcoin) to any noticeable degree).

Look at it this way.  Let's start with NXT-only asset denomination and let it go for six months or a year or whatever.  If it doesn't work, THEN open it up to BTC asset pricing.

You can always start with NXT only asset pricing and open up later to BTC/Doge/etc pricing LATER.  You can NEVER go back to NXT only pricing if you START with open pricing of all PoW sh*tcoins, the howls of protest would be overwhelming and kill us.

Doesn't it make sense to initially at least TRY to run an exchange with ONLY the coin WE CREATED AND ARE TRYING TO BREATHE LIFE INTO?  


P.S. If we end up helping BTC by .01% is that really such a bad thing? After all, how BTC goes, all crypto goes at least for the near future. Once we have billions of dollars of trading in NXT AE, then BTC wont matter much anyway.

It's gonna matter a lot when BTC pricing chokes out NXT pricing of assets as more and more Bitcoin users flock to our exchange and never make the switch to being NXT users for anything more than tiny exchange fees.
 
Have you seen the super giant volumes ripple is getting in their XRP markets? A whopping 20 BTC might trade all day in the bitstamp/XRP market. That is their biggest market. Assuming we can match that within NXT AE, how much will that impact things?

People trade pairs they are used to. For whatever reason it is what happens. Few alts trade in any volume against USD, even though most people have heard of USD. Everyone is used to trading crypto against BTC. Even with fiat vs fiat, people start trading a contract in one direction, eg AUDUSD and that is what 99% of the people trade, even though USDAUD is perfectly tradable.

Do you want to create a new market or provide a service to an existing market?

Do you know which one goes ten times (or more) faster?
Do you know which one is ten times (or more) less expensive?

Decentralized trading without a central exchange is something the market is ready for. Being goxed for however many millions has made this very clear. If you dont want 10% of crypto trading in NXT AE, just say so. How much trading is that? How much money would be flowing through NXT?

This is similar to the whole tax rates issue. A lot of people thing that the higher the tax rate, the more tax revenues will come in. This is true to a certain extent at certain ranges, but this does not mean a 99.9999% tax rate brings in the most revenue. In fact, historically the optimum level of taxation seems to be closer to 10%. Yes 10%. At that level, it isnt worth cheating on the taxes or spending money on lawyers and accountants. A surprisingly large amount of money is spent on lawyers and accountants to save percentage points on taxes. The bottom line is it is just a tax of a different form.

By making the tax cost very reasonable, basically nobody complains and economies grow as fast as possible. Now in a more mature economy, a higher rate probably makes sense, but if you make it too high, people cheat, lawyer up,or simply move.

What does this have to do with the issue at hand? I claim that forcing trades to go through NXT is just like a tax. There are two orderbooks, each with a bid/ask spread. Every single trade will cost more. Not only are you asking people to trade TWO new pairs that they are unfamiliar (uncomfortable) with, you are asking them to pay much higher spreads.

Bottomline, I predict doing this we will see whopping ripple level volumes other than what current NXT'ers trade BTC for. Notice it is the NXT/BTC pair that people will trade.Not because we force them to with AE, but because that is what they are used to trading

If you want NXT AE to be the place for people to buy Anon's silver and for some virtual companies and some cryto/NXT trading, then NXT AE wont become very big.

Aha! You sly devil. That is your plan so that the NXT 1.0 becomes the primary thing?
I dont understand why NXT 1.0 and NXT AE cant coexist. If you really just want a NXT coin, might I suggest nodecoin Smiley

James

+1

Bitcoin is king and will remain king for a while.  As an analogy, all the major commodities are traded in USD only even though the EUR would be just as good.  USD is still the reserve currency of choice for the world.
brooklynbtc
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 336
Merit: 250

AKA jefdiesel


View Profile
March 21, 2014, 03:28:10 AM
 #46617

Consider that every asset pair needs a market for bid/ask to be filled.  When denominated in NXT, N assets provide N markets.  However, if assets are traded directly then would require N! (N factorial) markets, which gets LARGE VERY QUICKLY.  Therefore, direct trading by asset pair could greatly limit available liquidity in any single market.

No, it wouldn't be factorial, it'd be N(N-1) because every asset would have to know it's price relative to every other asset, there are N assets, each of which needs to be traded against N-1 other assets.. right?

Oops, not factorial.  You are correct, but divided by two (if ask/bid grouped as single market) So is: N * (N-1) / 2

Consider 6 assets A, B, C, D, E, and F:

A<->B
A<->C
A<->D
A<->E
A<->F
B<->C
B<->D
B<->E
B<->F
C<->D
C<->E
C<->F
D<->E
D<->F
E<->F

Consider 1000 assets:
499500 markets.

This is not relevant. The market wants what the market wants. We cannot force people to trade pairs they dont want to trade. They will simply not do it, other than the occasional inventory rebalancing.

I believe most trading will go through NXT.
I just want to have the ability to satisfy the market demand. This is a marketing thing. Find a need and fill it. Not have a feature and convince people they want it. That is not easy at all

James

All you Bitcoin chasers need to listen to James.

PoS means earning on the back of all these others.

PoS means we're not going to mine more next week and have a bigger chunk than we did before.

PoS and TF means we can RUN all their actions for them, and take a CUT off the top. THIS will make NXT raise through the sky.

NXT is NOT for buying gum, or internet junk. It's for making huge amounts of OTHER actions happen.


SN
S   U   P   E   R    N   E   T
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀   
Uniting cryptocurrencies, Rewarding talent, Sharing benefits..

Blockchain Technology.

salsacz
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 490
Merit: 500


View Profile
March 21, 2014, 03:30:27 AM
 #46618

who got this nice tweet?

The future of cryptocurrencies is here - Nxt - new codebase, extensibility & low-computing power: http://justpaste.it/nxt-introduction-4-journalists
/
Build decentralized web and all apps on top of the Nxt blockchain: http://justpaste.it/nxt-decentralized-internet /  http://justpaste.it/nxt-introduction-4-journalists
+ some more



+ many many journalists via emails/forms Cheesy

good night, 4:30 am here

Nxt tips: NXT-R67P-6BZ2-XWAK-8RHZR | Nxt forum | Nxt Academy | Donate for Nxt at the Universities // BTCD: RVMLrnxYYy7uy8YZo9FcGfXbk1ZMnNifdg
brooklynbtc
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 336
Merit: 250

AKA jefdiesel


View Profile
March 21, 2014, 03:30:38 AM
 #46619

But initially, yes everything must be denominated in terms of Nxt until we are bigger than Bitcoin.  Otherwise it's kind of like free advertising for them.

+ 1 Billion NXT
You are right, nobody has heard of BTC or USD. What was I thinking, giving them free PR

Seriously James, Where do you live? Can we drink a few bottles of wine sometime soon?

EDIT: Ask a guy on a date and he takes off? WTF   Huh


SN
S   U   P   E   R    N   E   T
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀   
Uniting cryptocurrencies, Rewarding talent, Sharing benefits..

Blockchain Technology.

jl777
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1176
Merit: 1090


View Profile WWW
March 21, 2014, 03:42:09 AM
 #46620

But initially, yes everything must be denominated in terms of Nxt until we are bigger than Bitcoin.  Otherwise it's kind of like free advertising for them.

+ 1 Billion NXT
You are right, nobody has heard of BTC or USD. What was I thinking, giving them free PR

Seriously James, Where do you live? Can we drink a few bottles of wine sometime soon?


Buenos Aires, but I dont drink
-----

I dont understand all this non-math thinking. I thought crypto peoples trusted in math.
If you are going to do a $10 million trade, you want to do it at a known price. Breaking it up into 1000 pieces is NOT a viable option. Paying double spreads is NOT an option. We are basically saying forget about any large trade volumes in NXT AE

Try to put your distaste for PoW mining. You do have to admit that a lot of people are very happy to be able to do this abomination type of thing. The market wants what the market wants. People already have mining gear. All they can mine is the garbage coin of the day, when they really want good long term crypto, which is on a short list.

OK, let me try a different angle.

Imagine that somehow miraculously we get BTC denominated trading in NXT AE and it gets 10% of all crypto trading. This is bound to get some press coverage, even without our help. Now, we are being mentioned in the Wall Street journal and major papers as being a significant threat to all the centralized exchanges. People who never even bothered with crypto start investigating. They arent rocket scientists, but they gots tons of money. Do you think they will buy BTC or NXT? Remember, they are finding out that NXT enabled BTC trading. That implies that NXT is more powerful than BTC. BTC cant trade itself, but NXT can not only trade itself, it can trade BTC.

Ricky, you are right, what if the world finds out NXT is so much better than BTC. They just might start buying so much NXT there wont be any left to use a 1.0 currency

James

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
Pages: « 1 ... 2281 2282 2283 2284 2285 2286 2287 2288 2289 2290 2291 2292 2293 2294 2295 2296 2297 2298 2299 2300 2301 2302 2303 2304 2305 2306 2307 2308 2309 2310 2311 2312 2313 2314 2315 2316 2317 2318 2319 2320 2321 2322 2323 2324 2325 2326 2327 2328 2329 2330 [2331] 2332 2333 2334 2335 2336 2337 2338 2339 2340 2341 2342 2343 2344 2345 2346 2347 2348 2349 2350 2351 2352 2353 2354 2355 2356 2357 2358 2359 2360 2361 2362 2363 2364 2365 2366 2367 2368 2369 2370 2371 2372 2373 2374 2375 2376 2377 2378 2379 2380 2381 ... 2567 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!