NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[apenzl]

We have a mind-blowing revolutionary tool at our hands, and the question is not how to get people interested, but how to bring them value. I don't get it, many seem to sit on their hands waiting for others to work. If we create interesting Nxt services, that serves a purpose, people will use them. We discuss a lot how to promote Nxt. IMO we have to create stuff to promote. That's what James is doing. It's hard to say what will become of Nodecoin. It's an asset. It's a badge in the hat of Nxters running nodes. It may become an asset actually traded as a coin. A reward. Or not. Time will tell. I like the idea, and I like that it adds some sort of gamification. Release it, please.

[1714783888]

1714783888

[1714783888]

1714783888

[1714783888]

1714783888

[1714783888]

1714783888

[apenzl]

BCNext said something in the early days, I remember it being something like: "If you are not a developer, don't invest in Nxt". Gulp. I am not a coder (the last "code" I wrote would be something like: IF 10="YES" GOTO 1024".   But I do develop. IMO, we still need to develop ideas and turn them into reality, to give Nxt more value.

Yes, I am going to have EVERY shop in my street take Nxt (coin) as payment, but hell, why should it matter to customers, whether it's Nxt, Bitcoin or any altcoin they use as payment? Why Nxt? Because people will have them.

They will own Nxt because of our services. Businesses on top.

I think many are waiting for core features to be finished, so they can step in. It might be confusing to follow Nxt right now, because our community is decentralized. I'm not used to that. I'm still learning how to feel comfortable with it. But I like it. I don't panic, if nothing new is announced every day. But it shouldn't overwhelm us and stop us from creating, ourselves. I don't plan to trade 1 single Nxt for fiat - EVER. I'm going to spend it inside our system.

People will "buy" Nxt / use it through AE, AM or a Nxt Parallel Chain, when they use our services - so these services (or "companies") have to fill a need out there. In functionality. In coolness factor. Fun. Or fuck-the-system-we-are-the-99%-and-we-are-bloody-anonymous-factor.

We can pretend that we are a 1. gen. crypto. But it's a lie. We are Nxt.

[jl777]

Nodecoin is not a clear cut issue. It seems more want to see where this goes than not. James, release the hounds. I hope you make a lot of money on it.

nodecoin is a nonprofit coin, meant for supporting NXT network, just looking to cover costs with minimal fees

My for profit coins are still in development.

[L5Society]

Reference the recent discussion here on driving the transaction fee down from 1 NXT to 0.1 or 0.01 NXT.  That is an increase in "supply" of trading fee tokens by a factor of X10 vs. X100.  Where was the pressure to keep NXT transaction fees UP?  Fees are just another word for tax, people hate taxes, there will always be pressure to drive taxes down.  Would you rather trade 1,000,000 nodecoin for 1 BTC on AE if the NXT fee was 1 NXT = $1 bought at Cryptsy, or the NXT fee was 0.01 NXT  = 1 cent bought at Cryptsy?  What is the motivation / market pressure to keep NXT at $1 each instead of 1 cent?

I am starting to think that not only nodecoin but also AE itself is the enemy of keeping NXT as a store of value....

Ahh, I see your logic. You are concerned that if the value of nxt becomes nothing more than the ability to use AE, and that if we start reducing the transaction fee, then the value of nxt will be reduced in proportion with the transaction fee.

Let's use dividend paying stocks as an analogy. Transaction fees are the dividends paid to shareholders (holders of nxt). More transactions equals more transaction fees equals more dividends. The value of nxt is a function of the future stream of dividend payments. But currently, the transaction fees are fixed at 1 unit of nxt. Therefore as nxt price increases, transaction fees increase, making us not very competitive with bitstamp or mastercoin or whoever is in the exchange market. I do believe that this circular mechanism restricts the upside on the price of 1 nxt.

I also agree with you that changing the transaction fee arbitrarily downwards is a bad idea, as going to .01 nxt would cause a 99% decline in the value of nxt (in this simple example where AE drives 100% of the value of nxt). Alternatively, if we denominate the transaction fee in AE as a % of the value being exchanged, then we can compete with other exchanges directly and without having to constantly recalibrate our fees when nxt price changes.

[klee]

I wish Cunicula was here.

[igmaca]

Reference the recent discussion here on driving the transaction fee down from 1 NXT to 0.1 or 0.01 NXT.  That is an increase in "supply" of trading fee tokens by a factor of X10 vs. X100.  Where was the pressure to keep NXT transaction fees UP?  Fees are just another word for tax, people hate taxes, there will always be pressure to drive taxes down.  Would you rather trade 1,000,000 nodecoin for 1 BTC on AE if the NXT fee was 1 NXT = $1 bought at Cryptsy, or the NXT fee was 0.01 NXT  = 1 cent bought at Cryptsy?  What is the motivation / market pressure to keep NXT at $1 each instead of 1 cent?

I am starting to think that not only nodecoin but also AE itself is the enemy of keeping NXT as a store of value....

Ahh, I see your logic. You are concerned that if the value of nxt becomes nothing more than the ability to use AE, and that if we start reducing the transaction fee, then the value of nxt will be reduced in proportion with the transaction fee.

Let's use dividend paying stocks as an analogy. Transaction fees are the dividends paid to shareholders (holders of nxt). More transactions equals more transaction fees equals more dividends. The value of nxt is a function of the future stream of dividend payments. But currently, the transaction fees are fixed at 1 unit of nxt. Therefore as nxt price increases, transaction fees increase, making us not very competitive with bitstamp or mastercoin or whoever is in the exchange market. I do believe that this circular mechanism restricts the upside on the price of 1 nxt.

I also agree with you that changing the transaction fee arbitrarily downwards is a bad idea, as going to .01 nxt would cause a 99% decline in the value of nxt (in this simple example where AE drives 100% of the value of nxt). Alternatively, if we denominate the transaction fee in AE as a % of the value being exchanged, then we can compete with other exchanges directly and without having to constantly recalibrate our fees when nxt price changes.

this makes sense

[klee]

I wish Cunicula was here.

What happened to him? Just up and disappeared.

Have no idea, maybe he is BCNext or part of the team...

EDIT: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=343510.msg3687657#msg3687657

[jl777]

Nodecoin is not a clear cut issue. It seems more want to see where this goes than not. James, release the hounds. I hope you make a lot of money on it.

As far as I know James does not care much about money. He's got a nice IRL income... he doesn't really require more than that. He has enough to comfortably use his brain.

I have no RL income, all my income comes from crypto. I am currently working on a three month contract funded by neer.g for $2000 USD/month paid in NXT. Based on the number of hours I work, it is about minimum wage, but that is all I need to cover RL expenses.

If my performance is insufficient (or I inadvertently destroy NXT) I dont imagine my contract will be renewed after May 12th

My charter is to do the community's will, so when the community is divided, I need to figure out what to do instead of coding.

I am in the curious position of having authority over millions of NXT, but since there was nobody who would sign up to do the bounties fulltime, I decided it was best if I just implemented what I saw best for NXT. Due to conflict of interest concerns, I cant authorize payments to myself for my dev work, not that I have actually formally released anything yet.

James

P.S. There have been some kind donations to me personally, but I think so far it is less than 2000 NXT total.

[BrianNowhere]

Can anyone tell me why I get nodecoin even though I'm not running the nodecoin script?

Because skyNXT is self aware and knows how important your work is to its ultimate domination....

Seriously James started out with an idea to reward people running nodes so that they did not just rely on forging.

All I see in the thread is downside and negativity, ok nodecoin is not perfect, but its not cancer, and if it is - lets hear the alternative?

Do we still need to reward people who run nodes?

Are we waiting for BCNext or his 12 or is it 21 disciples and the super nodes they will deploy to forge on and earn all the transaction fees from everyone else's handwork?

The alternative is to get the price of running a node so cheap that nobody needs a reward to do it.   What we are doing here is creating a pseudo-POW to make up for perceived weaknesses in PoS.  If PoS is strong enough to stand on its own, then let it.  If we try to go pseudo-PoW to be a motivator, then REAL PoW will ALWAYS be a better alternative and who needs NXT?

+1

It's like putting an extra engine on a Prius to please people who like burning gasoline.

[klee]

Nodecoin is not a clear cut issue. It seems more want to see where this goes than not. James, release the hounds. I hope you make a lot of money on it.

As far as I know James does not care much about money. He's got a nice IRL income... he doesn't really require more than that. He has enough to comfortably use his brain.

I have no RL income, all my income comes from crypto. I am currently working on a three month contract funded by neer.g for $2000 USD/month paid in NXT. Based on the number of hours I work, it is about minimum wage, but that is all I need to cover RL expenses.

If my performance is insufficient (or I inadvertently destroy NXT) I dont imagine my contract will be renewed after May 12th

My charter is to do the community's will, so when the community is divided, I need to figure out what to do instead of coding.

I am in the curious position of having authority over millions of NXT, but since there was nobody who would sign up to do the bounties fulltime, I decided it was best if I just implemented what I saw best for NXT. Due to conflict of interest concerns, I cant authorize payments to myself for my dev work, not that I have actually formally released anything yet.

James

P.S. There have been some kind donations to me personally, but I think so far it is less than 2000 NXT total.

1M NXT for zerocoin implementation

[apenzl]

I'll just continue to ramble here….  I don't usually drink this much coffee.

To get Nxt into people's hands, we should offer them stuff that they can ONLY get through Nxt. That's more important than getting my grocery store to accept Nxt right now, as I see it. Nxtopia is on the move. They just don't post everything here. Salsacz is taking good initiatives too, nontransparent though.  

I propose, that we bring some personal visions to the table. Some ideas have been posted, but most are lost in the thread. That's why I started the newsletter - to keep Nxters updated, but also to make us remember what we have. Let's give the new committees some ideas to work with. Not that they should just fund them, but because they have to tie it all together (good luck!! ), and because by talking about where we want Nxt to go, AND HOW, we might just be able to get it there, and get Nxt over the ramp.

I've noticed that "cloning" others'  work seems to be very popular in this crypto world, but let's remember that we are sailing this ship up river together, wanting it to succeed. Right now, Nxters may be sitting in each corner of the world, programming the same services, because we don't communicate very well, and that's a pity. It happened with the clients. And the websites. And the social marketing. It will happen again, and it slows us down.

Various discussions in this thread have shown, that we are very different people. This can be seen as the achilles heel of our Nxt Community, but IMHO it's our greatest force too, if we choose to use it as such. Every single stakeholder should have a vision for Nxt. We all see different opportunities. But what binds us together is that Nxt can make it (all) come true. If we take action, that is.

[bidji29]

On january 3rd, I donated 10 k to you jl777  if i remember correctly

Keep up the good work

[jl777]

Nodecoin is not a clear cut issue. It seems more want to see where this goes than not. James, release the hounds. I hope you make a lot of money on it.

As far as I know James does not care much about money. He's got a nice IRL income... he doesn't really require more than that. He has enough to comfortably use his brain.

I have no RL income, all my income comes from crypto. I am currently working on a three month contract funded by neer.g for $2000 USD/month paid in NXT. Based on the number of hours I work, it is about minimum wage, but that is all I need to cover RL expenses.

If my performance is insufficient (or I inadvertently destroy NXT) I dont imagine my contract will be renewed after May 12th

My charter is to do the community's will, so when the community is divided, I need to figure out what to do instead of coding.

I am in the curious position of having authority over millions of NXT, but since there was nobody who would sign up to do the bounties fulltime, I decided it was best if I just implemented what I saw best for NXT. Due to conflict of interest concerns, I cant authorize payments to myself for my dev work, not that I have actually formally released anything yet.

James

P.S. There have been some kind donations to me personally, but I think so far it is less than 2000 NXT total.

1M NXT for zerocoin implementation

Yes, that is the budget for NXTcash operating expenses, but the NXTcash completion bonus fund http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=100 has 33,000 NXT in it.

I am assuming I cant pay myself anything from the NXTcash operating budget, so it falls into the same category as the NXTcommunityfunds (other than neer.g's setaside for me)

James

[L5Society]

James

I appreciate what you are doing, and I'm sure most everyone else here does as well. I'll send you some nxt when I get to a trusted computer - what's your preferred address?

Your ideas and work are going to receive criticism, because everyone here is financially and emotionally invested in nxt. I just wish that people here would not resort to claiming that nxt is doomed if their ideas don't win out. A community of people that is constantly at each others throats will ultimately damage the nxt experiment.

[klee]

Nodecoin is not a clear cut issue. It seems more want to see where this goes than not. James, release the hounds. I hope you make a lot of money on it.

As far as I know James does not care much about money. He's got a nice IRL income... he doesn't really require more than that. He has enough to comfortably use his brain.

I have no RL income, all my income comes from crypto. I am currently working on a three month contract funded by neer.g for $2000 USD/month paid in NXT. Based on the number of hours I work, it is about minimum wage, but that is all I need to cover RL expenses.

If my performance is insufficient (or I inadvertently destroy NXT) I dont imagine my contract will be renewed after May 12th

My charter is to do the community's will, so when the community is divided, I need to figure out what to do instead of coding.

I am in the curious position of having authority over millions of NXT, but since there was nobody who would sign up to do the bounties fulltime, I decided it was best if I just implemented what I saw best for NXT. Due to conflict of interest concerns, I cant authorize payments to myself for my dev work, not that I have actually formally released anything yet.

James

P.S. There have been some kind donations to me personally, but I think so far it is less than 2000 NXT total.

1M NXT for zerocoin implementation

Yes, that is the budget for NXTcash operating expenses, but the NXTcash completion bonus fund http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=100 has 33,000 NXT in it.

I am assuming I cant pay myself anything from the NXTcash operating budget, so it falls into the same category as the NXTcommunityfunds (other than neer.g's setaside for me)

James

Why? This was supposed to cover whatever expense you might need to, including salaries for everyone involved, including you (at least part of them)!

The completion bonus fund should be higher but I don't see why not to cover your manhours (and others) from my donations.

Can we have a clear picture on the status of my donation? Where they have been spent? How? We need transparency in this I think..

[apenzl]

since there was nobody who would sign up to do the bounties fulltime, I decided it was best if I just implemented what I saw best for NXT.

Can we get devs from "the outside" to work for these bounties?

[apenzl]

CfB:

What was paid will be delivered by the 3rd of April. Not more.
Refactoring, consulting, some extra functionality like API calls.

[klee]

Nodecoin is not a clear cut issue. It seems more want to see where this goes than not. James, release the hounds. I hope you make a lot of money on it.

As far as I know James does not care much about money. He's got a nice IRL income... he doesn't really require more than that. He has enough to comfortably use his brain.

I have no RL income, all my income comes from crypto. I am currently working on a three month contract funded by neer.g for $2000 USD/month paid in NXT. Based on the number of hours I work, it is about minimum wage, but that is all I need to cover RL expenses.

If my performance is insufficient (or I inadvertently destroy NXT) I dont imagine my contract will be renewed after May 12th

My charter is to do the community's will, so when the community is divided, I need to figure out what to do instead of coding.

I am in the curious position of having authority over millions of NXT, but since there was nobody who would sign up to do the bounties fulltime, I decided it was best if I just implemented what I saw best for NXT. Due to conflict of interest concerns, I cant authorize payments to myself for my dev work, not that I have actually formally released anything yet.

James

P.S. There have been some kind donations to me personally, but I think so far it is less than 2000 NXT total.

1M NXT for zerocoin implementation

Yes, that is the budget for NXTcash operating expenses, but the NXTcash completion bonus fund http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=100 has 33,000 NXT in it.

I am assuming I cant pay myself anything from the NXTcash operating budget, so it falls into the same category as the NXTcommunityfunds (other than neer.g's setaside for me)

James

Why? This was supposed to cover whatever expense you might need to, including salaries for everyone involved, including you (at least part of them)!

The completion bonus fund should be higher but I don't see why not to cover your manhours (and others) from my donations.

Can we have a clear picture on the status of my donation? Where they have been spent? How? We need transparency in this I think..

http://www.mynxt.info/blockexplorer/details.php?action=ac&ac=18388470681791198265

They seem intact - why don't you pay yourself & others, you are investing your time in this?!?

[jl777]

On january 3rd, I donated 10 k to you jl777  if i remember correctly

Keep up the good work

Ah yes! Thank you again, that was during the peercover mess. I ended up covering peercovers' development losses of 135,000 NXT personally (>20% of my holdings at the time) and the 10K from you reduced the pain to net 125,000 NXT outlay for trying to ensure we all had a place to trade NXT in a relatively decentralized way. For my troubles and outlay I was accused of trying to hurt NXT by suggesting that we use ripple.

Sorry to have forgotten, I had lumped that whole episode together.

To correct things, to date, other than neer.g's sponsorship, I have received less than 12,000 NXT in donations and have paid to peercover and several people directly:

http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=2000&tra=2908061711788780811 90000 NXT
http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=2000&tra=11922435045177123841 10000 NXT
via ripple:
rnMYMVrB1wo4u9n7aepenEFBunQ89B9L9d - 20500 NXT
rfxABqhGSqiX7PMAx4fJ44tME4m9pUBwfJ - 15000 NXT
rMm2eTsNaG2iABgqTVYqM8UdZGwL2vfZCV - 2000 NXT

So after working for three months at 80+ hours per week, I will get to a breakeven point. All during this time constantly being accused of doing horrible evil things. It is not like I am asking for fanboys who cheer everything I do, but the constant second guessing and arm chair quarterbacking of my efforts is really discouraging.

People complain that there is no incentive for small NXT holders to forge. I implement nodecoin to address this. Now people complain nodecoin will somehow magically destroy NXT

People complain that stakeholders arent doing anything, even though there are >10 million NXT in bounties in addition to unclaimed coins. Which by the way, if I didnt push really hard, would be getting very close to being vaporized.

I tried to get people to help figure out NXTlayers. I was shouted down and my ideas were equated to a Ddos attack and most seemed to agree. i was told not to come up with new ideas, and to just wait for other people to finish what they are working on before I do anything.

I propose automated crosschain transactions. I am told to stop dreaming of impossible things. Of course, a few weeks later a 5 million NXT bounty appears to implement automated crosschain transactions.

Lacking any help, even though I had funding, I started to create my vision of NXTlayers. I proposed automated gateway. Again people said gateways are centralized. I came up with multisig gateways. People complain it is not perfect.

The big stakeholders are not the problem. It is the constant negativity that is the problem.

Take today. I have spent all day and all my energy fighting with people that somehow nodecoin will destroy NXT.
My track record of saying we should do XYZ, the community calls me all sort of names and says XYZ is a bad idea. Then a few weeks later, everybody is gung ho about XYZ.

This has happened quite a few times and I am getting tired of it. If you are a developer and can help me implement nodecoin, multisig gateway, NXTmixer, NXTcash, then help me. If you are not, then ask questions I will happily give you my thinking on a subject. That is a lot more interaction you have historically gotten with any dev other than wesley. But unless you are sure you are right, please no more unsubstantiated claims about, well anything. If you are going to make a claim, substaintiate it. Dont just state as fact some fear you might have. Other people reading this forum could easily misinterpret and is that really what you want?

To implement the "impossible" takes a positive mental attitude. Which I have totally lost, at least for today. When this thread becomes less negative, I might get the inspiration to do some more coding. until then I am on vacation.

Congratulations anti-nodecoin camp wins.

James

[jl777]

James

I appreciate what you are doing, and I'm sure most everyone else here does as well. I'll send you some nxt when I get to a trusted computer - what's your preferred address?

Your ideas and work are going to receive criticism, because everyone here is financially and emotionally invested in nxt. I just wish that people here would not resort to claiming that nxt is doomed if their ideas don't win out. A community of people that is constantly at each others throats will ultimately damage the nxt experiment.

it already has damaged
this is the third day I have lost due to negativity in the last few weeks
worse is, each time I find it harder and harder to get back in a groove

Would you peoples be treating CfB or jean-luc this way? I know I am nothing compare to them, but dont I deserve at least a little respect?