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Author Topic: www.BITSTAMP.net Bitcoin exchange site for USD/BTC  (Read 205941 times)
Vanderi
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January 13, 2014, 10:59:25 PM
 #1101


...
That said, they are a high volume, established service provider and any risk that they are trying to get to your money and head for the bahamas is infinitely small.


 100 USD, maybe.


Wrong. Up yours, too, buddy.

ground frickin' floor of awesomeness. An original wtf'er.
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oda.krell
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January 13, 2014, 11:08:56 PM
 #1102


...
That said, they are a high volume, established service provider and any risk that they are trying to get to your money and head for the bahamas is infinitely small.


Well, not Bahamas but somewhere else? Called my banker today. He said, no way so far to get back the rest (after fees) of my 60k USD becasue the Slovenian Unicredit - Bitstamps bank where I sent the money to - claims, Bitstamp refuses to give the allowance.

White knight? No bad experiences on Bitstamp? If you trade with 100 USD, maybe.

F...k !!!!

Hm, let's see... newbie account, coming here asking for support with a possibly true but kind of hard to believe story to begin with, then insulting those who dare to ask critical questions. But wait. I guess that's not the kind of language you understand. I'll translate: Go fuck yourself :)

EDIT: if you can accept the fact that a number of people in here trade within a similar USD range (or larger), and you don't accuse others of being white knights, then you might actually get some support here, as far as that's possible on a forum. Lately, I didn't see anyone from Bitstamp responding in here unfortunately.

Not sure which Bitcoin wallet to use? I can highly recommend Electrum.
Electrum is an open-source lightweight client: user friendly, extremely fast, and one of the safest ways to store and use your bitcoins.
Executables are available on the Electrum homepage, so you can get a Bitcoin wallet up and running on your own computer in a few minutes.
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January 14, 2014, 01:10:47 AM
 #1103

Pro-trader, I'm interested too in how yours turns out.  I am in the US, but a very similar story.   I did a few thousand wire transfer test and all went well.   I have transferred a larger sum akin to yours (60k)  later from my US bank (I am already verified at Bitstamp as well).  My Bank validated the transfer last Friday early am,  but the USD still has not posted to my account on Bitstamp yet.  I have exchanged a few messages with their support, and they said they already credited it.  They hadn't of course , and I think "Luka" was simply confused by my first deposit.  I am awaiting their reply.  They say they credit within 24hrs of receiving a wire completed, but I am now well past that point.  During their business hours tomorrow I expect to receive my cash in my Bitstamp account.  I'll let you know what happens here.

Loozik
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January 14, 2014, 01:57:26 AM
 #1104

Welcome to the legal fiction called EU.

This MAY be outdated: if you make a transfer of more than EUR 15k to or from or within the so called EU, this transfer is automatically considered suspicious and must be reported to:
- somebody making business as EU and
- the so called national financial authorities of your residence (if you live in the so called EU).

If you make many transactions with one party sending jointly more than EUR 15k to this party during a month, this gets also reported.

I did a few thousand wire transfer test and all went well.

It is below 15k - no problem.

I have transferred a larger sum akin to yours (60k)  later from my US bank (I am already verified at Bitstamp as well).

This is above EUR 15k. Your transfer must have been reported to somebody. This somebody MIGHT have got suspicious. Maybe your name accidentally matches the name of a known terrorist or someone on Interpol list? Just a guess.

From experiences of some of my friends who work as bank clerks, it is better:
- to send a larger amount at once - if you are fortunate, noone will have time to react and block your payment;
- to split a larger amount into less than EUR 15k portions and send over a longer period.

Bitstamp MAY not be at fault.
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January 14, 2014, 02:13:11 AM
 #1105

Thanks for the reply Loosik.   Mine is a small delay so far, but his post caught my attention.

I am in the US.   Anything over 10K in a day has to get reported (reality is they aggregate data over multiple days as well) .  In my case with 60K, they certainly reported it here in the US because they are required to.  My bank completed that and sent the money in around 14 hours tops.  I expect the same as you noted in the EU with sums that large.  
If Bitstamp is delaying deposits during any extra review period (I already have been verified with my passport, etc), they should notify customers.  I understand and expect them to comply with international law for sure.  But once they verify, holding people's money hostage without communication or a good reason will wreck their business quickly.   I am testing CampBx in the US as well.

A word of caution with trying to do sums less than 10K or 15K repeatedly, instead of one transfer.  In the US they call this "structuring" your withdrawals/deposit to avoid getting any auto reporting for larger sums, and it's a serious federal offense.   I have every intention of reporting my gains (or losses), so I have no issue with my transfers being tracked backed and forth.  I didn't want to take any chance with the IRS here thinking I was structuring payments, so I did a larger transfer up front.  

BTW, I had a very poor experience with Coinbase, noted here, but I have hopes for them:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=407385.0

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January 14, 2014, 02:29:46 AM
 #1106

If Bitstamp is delaying deposits during any extra review period (I already have been verified with my passport, etc), they should notify customers.

If Bitstamp is delaying your deposit based on their arbitrary judgements, it's not fair. If it is for reasons beyond their will (e.g. your name matches the name of a know terrorist), then Bitstamp has no other option than to delay the deposit, untill things sort out.

A word of caution with trying to do sums less than 10K or 15K repeatedly, instead of one transfer.  In the US they call this "structuring" your withdrawals/deposit to avoid getting any auto reporting for larger sums, and it's a serious federal offense.

So it is considered an offence in the so called EU as well. There are ''funny'' cases when bank clerks freeze accounts of legitimate businesses like shops that deposit their daily earnings while quoting ''structuring offence'' laws Cheesy
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January 14, 2014, 08:17:29 AM
 #1107

Update as of today: no money returned.

Thanks for everybody sharing experience. When comparing, please keep in mind that I no longer ask Bitstamp to credit the money on my account.
All I ask them is to return my payment (and I will bear the fees for all that) to my (EU – based & well known) bank I sent my money from.

And yes, I

1.   had a fully verified account with fully verified identity
2.   Bitstamp confirmed me subject 1 (otherwise I would not have sent money - I know the EU AML & KYC rules very well). But nevertheless Bitstamp had frozen my 60k USD right upon arrival.
3.   As I wrote I fully recognize AML & KYC procedures. But to fulfill that, you do not have to present totally naked and inform Bitstamp about your entire bank accounts, entire financial information etc.. All those docs and bank letters I sent Bitstamp are more than enough to proof that I do legal business, especially as I sent a detailed reference letter from my bank. Bitstamp´s reason to keep my money confiscated is simply ridiculous.
4.   re-called my 60k USD payment, offering to bear all the fees for such a recall (which is, as I wrote, a few hundred USD all in)

According to my bank, Bitstamp has still prohibited their bank to re-transfer my payment. Once again: I am not asking Bitstamp to credit my account in order to trade with Bitstamp. All I do is simply “please return my money to where it came from”. There is 0 legal base for not doing that.

So in my view there are only 2 conclusions about Bitstamp Ltd:

1.   Bitstamp is a fraud
2.   Bitstamp is run by a bunch of pubescent teenagers and/or for other reasons highly unprofessional.

As I wrote, the 2nd may be the case and I still have some hope it is. There is also a 3rd option: That Bitstamp is a trustful and also a professional company. I only had the bad luck to be served by 2 employees that are incapable to do their job (by the way, I got replies from a person named “Rok Stucin” and by some “Marko Rogan”). That can happen, in deed. Even in the best-run companies sometimes client communications takes the wrong turn.

I just don´t believe it any more.

Hm, let's see... newbie account, coming here asking for support with a possibly true but kind of hard to believe story to begin with, then insulting those who dare to ask critical questions. But wait. I guess that's not the kind of language you understand. I'll translate: Go fuck yourself Smiley
 
Yes, I am a newbie and yes this is my first post in this forum. Usually I do not spend a lot of time writing posts myself in such forums, but in general I like to read them when I search for experiences others make with a company, a product etc.

Writing my experience here was not intended to ask for help.
I will have to get help from my lawyer in this case. I took the time to write it so that others can read and learn about my experience.

Also I did and do not have the intention to offend users of this forum. I totally disagree with your post. If you are such a fan of Bitstamp that writing my experience with this so-called “company” offends you, then allow me the question: are you an employee of that “company” ? If so then you might better spend your time and look into my subject. And yes, English is not my native language but I am convinced that I am fluent enough in it to articulate myself also in writing.  

If not then you have to accept that I do have this experience and that I do struggle since weeks now to recover my money from Bitstamp. Feel free to trade and deal with Bitstamp and trust them or whatsoever. This is your decision! And the above is my experience. Which I will share to others even if you dislike it.

Of course I will keep you updated here! And hopefully my update will be one day: Money recovered!

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January 14, 2014, 09:30:55 AM
 #1108

Also I did and do not have the intention to offend users of this forum. I totally disagree with your post. If you are such a fan of Bitstamp that writing my experience with this so-called “company” offends you, then allow me the question: are you an employee of that “company” ? If so then you might better spend your time and look into my subject. And yes, English is not my native language but I am convinced that I am fluent enough in it to articulate myself also in writing.  

If not then you have to accept that I do have this experience and that I do struggle since weeks now to recover my money from Bitstamp. Feel free to trade and deal with Bitstamp and trust them or whatsoever. This is your decision! And the above is my experience. Which I will share to others even if you dislike it.

Great job leaving out my EDIT (that I added 5 minutes later, so I'm sure you saw it when you posted).

The problem is you came here and posted, and when someone responded to your post with something less than total support, you mentioned "white knighting" and "trading with 100 USD". I'm sure you can see how that doesn't exactly make a great first impression.

Anyway, I trade in a comparable range, and never had problem depositing and withdrawing. However, I can use SEPA transfers, so maybe that makes everything easier... don't know.

Good luck with your case. And, as always, it'd be nice to get some official responses in here from Bitstamp.

Not sure which Bitcoin wallet to use? I can highly recommend Electrum.
Electrum is an open-source lightweight client: user friendly, extremely fast, and one of the safest ways to store and use your bitcoins.
Executables are available on the Electrum homepage, so you can get a Bitcoin wallet up and running on your own computer in a few minutes.
pro-trader
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January 14, 2014, 09:40:02 AM
 #1109

oda.krell,
sorry then we have a misunderstaning. I see it now - was not intended to offend! Also: My "f...k" in the end was, by all means, NOT adressed to any user here, it was an expression on my personal feelings on this whole subject or adressed to the way Bitstamp treats it. Sorry to anybody who felt touched by that! But in deed I do not ask for help here (would not know how somebody could help), my sole intention is letting others read about my experience. Also I am aware that Bitstamp has good reputations on many boards - which is the reason why I tried them. Having good reputations does, however, not help me here. Still Bitstamp blocks the re-call of my money, just asked my banker.

On a sidenote: The reason I did not use SEPA (despite I was using a EU based bank) was simply to avoid the FX spread that Bitstamp uses: SEPA is free of charge (unlike USD) - but then Bitstamp converts the Euro to USD. As I have direct access to the FX spot market I can always get the better FX rate (at a given time) - so I sent USD instead of Euro in order to be in control of the FX rate used.
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January 14, 2014, 11:20:08 AM
 #1110

Hi pro-trader,

you seem to be ignoring the great post of Loozik.
This might very well be EU regulation that is screwing you over.

Found my posts helpful? Consider buying me a beer :-)!:
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January 14, 2014, 01:33:48 PM
 #1111

On a sidenote: The reason I did not use SEPA (despite I was using a EU based bank) was simply to avoid the FX spread that Bitstamp uses: SEPA is free of charge (unlike USD) - but then Bitstamp converts the Euro to USD. As I have direct access to the FX spot market I can always get the better FX rate (at a given time) - so I sent USD instead of Euro in order to be in control of the FX rate used.

It sounds like you have experiance with this, question:
I also opened a USD account, but it has the same account number as my EUR account. Do I have to add any instructions for depositing USD to my account? I'm a bit afraid my bank wil convert it to my EUR account (with the extreme spread).
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January 14, 2014, 01:41:48 PM
 #1112

On a sidenote: The reason I did not use SEPA (despite I was using a EU based bank) was simply to avoid the FX spread that Bitstamp uses: SEPA is free of charge (unlike USD) - but then Bitstamp converts the Euro to USD. As I have direct access to the FX spot market I can always get the better FX rate (at a given time) - so I sent USD instead of Euro in order to be in control of the FX rate used.

I sound like you have experiance with this, question:
I also opened a USD account, but it has the same account number as my EUR account. Do I have to add any instructions for depositing USD to my account? I'm a bit afraid my bank wil convert it to my EUR account (with the extreme spread).

Yes, you must be careful to choose an International bank withdrawal and not a SEPA withdrawal, and then choose USD as the currency which you would like to receive.

My personality type: INTJ - please forgive my weaknesses (Not naturally in tune with others feelings; may be insensitive at times, tend to respond to conflict with logic and reason, tend to believe I'm always right)

If however you enjoyed my post: 15j781DjuJeVsZgYbDVt2NZsGrWKRWFHpp
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January 14, 2014, 04:10:05 PM
 #1113

I finally received a reply, 4 business days (5 days) later after my deposit was fully posted from my own bank.
They are asking me for more details like all my bank accounts, why am I doing this, where did my money come from.    I am happy to answer the questions and I'm doing that, but they should make it clear to customers about these delays before customers send money.  This should be in their FAQ, about delays beyond the verification step if you use funds larger than 15K.   I'm fine with it, but they should be explicit so people can plan properly, with some guidelines on how long it takes for a response.   Time is money. 

 Likely this process is faster when in your own country.

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January 14, 2014, 05:21:36 PM
 #1114

Hi pro-trader,

you seem to be ignoring the great post of Loozik.
This might very well be EU regulation that is screwing you over.

Well, I do not think I am not ignoring it. Its is not the fault of some EU. I do for example trade a lot in Balkan stock markets. I send & receive money to / from my Balkan brokers (and one of them is also in Slovenia and has a bank account in Slovenia) back and forth, since years and in much larger numbers, and in EURO and USD .
Never had a problem that somebody from outside would have found it suspicious and would have instructed a broker or a bank to withhold my money. Of course, the receiving bank from time to time asks about details esp. when I sold something and send money back – normal in a case like mine who does a lot of trading. But they always use common sense when checking the docs I present.

Anyway, I have a very good reading update:

I got a PM from User hazek who informed me that he looked into my subject and now the release of my money should be underway. Will post an update once I received my USD back on my account as promised.

I finally received a reply, 4 business days (5 days) later after my deposit was fully posted from my own bank.
They are asking me for more details like all my bank accounts, why am I doing this, where did my money come from.    I am happy to answer the questions and I'm doing that, but they should make it clear to customers about these delays before customers send money to foreign risky banks.  This should be in their FAQ.  I would have just gone with CampBx than risk them delaying my money like this (time is money). 
Word to wise, only use exchanges in your own country if you can.  Likely this process is faster when in your own country.

Great, so there are now 2x 60k USD to get unfrozen -  press the thumbs!
I fully agree with you, what I would add is that when asking & checking docs, they should also use common sense and do what all other banks do in such cases – and not (like in my case) ask for a complete financial striptease.
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January 14, 2014, 06:10:49 PM
 #1115

To be honest, I am actually fine with their validation process.  I understand they need to be careful around money laundering or other illegal activities.

I suggest that they wrap some clearer process around this and post it in the FAQ so people know what kind of timelines to expect on their money, when they deal with funds larger than 15K that trigger deeper inspection.
This second phase of validation requires deeper personal information that needs to kept secure, and they should also be clear on their security/privacy policy on this additional personal information too.  So a FAQ detailing what triggers the second phase, expected timelines on response and what is required.  Customers can be prepared up front this way.   It's all logical and makes sense, customers just need to know about it up front.

They are a work in progress/startup, understood; these are just suggested/needed process improvements requirements on their side so there is transparency with the customer and their assets.   Time is money and customers should expect to be able to have some timeline expectation boundaries around their transactions.      Right now, there is no clear documentation for this second phase validation.  That way US banks won't start to block wire transfers because customers complain of issues with the Bitstamp bank holding funds.  The process will be clear.





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January 14, 2014, 07:42:04 PM
 #1116

Two things:

a) the two cases mentioned above aren't the first >15k USD deposits. I can say that much with certainty. And not all of them triggered additional check ups. Again, I'm wondering if the common factor is that both of them weren't SEPA that triggered extra measures.

b) don't want to white knight Bitstamp, since I'm also not always 100% happy with how they run their business (my main gripe is their lack of public announcements when things go wrong, like DDOS -- though I have to say I'm glad to see hazek made an appearance in this thread this time Cheesy), but I also don't really support coming here accusing them, if things go wrong, immediately of "fraud" or being "run by teenagers".

Not sure which Bitcoin wallet to use? I can highly recommend Electrum.
Electrum is an open-source lightweight client: user friendly, extremely fast, and one of the safest ways to store and use your bitcoins.
Executables are available on the Electrum homepage, so you can get a Bitcoin wallet up and running on your own computer in a few minutes.
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January 15, 2014, 12:43:03 PM
 #1117

Just a little update. Withdrew a good amount of fiat recently via SEPA. Everything went smooth as always.

Money comes in as EUR which is even nicer now, as my country joined euro zone this year. Less converting for me. Smiley

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January 15, 2014, 04:46:29 PM
 #1118

Update for me.   My money is now in my account.  It took  only next day (1 day) to review my second verification data to post the money into the account.  The questions feel a little invasive, but I understand the need for making sure its from "viable" sources.   Examples are:
what are my banks?
documented example of where money came from?
how I plan to use bitcoin?

The process overall for the deposit was reasonable given their need to comply with laws.  Only suggestion again is adding to the FAQ some info around verification and timelines for funds that exceed some thresholds.

Here is a timeline in my case if it helps others plan.   I am a US citizen.
1. I opened my Bitstamp account three weeks ago approx.
2. Verification took around 1 week (passport + utility photo).
3.  I sent a $2k deposit test from my US Bank to Bitstamp's bank in Slovenia.  It took around 24hrs, slightly more, for my bank to complete sending it and for Bitstamp to post it.
4.  I have also moved around 18K USD worth of bitcoins in and back out in some tests (coins came from coinbase trades), both were essentially instant, as well as trading with it while it was in Bitstamp (with a bot as well).  
5.  I then transferred ~60K USD from my bank to Bitstamp.  My bank completed the wire within around 14hrs (sent Thursday at 3pm, bank completed it around 14 hrs later my side in the early 'am' according to timestamps).
6.  On Monday I contacted Bitstamp to check the status of the transfer as I was past the declared 24hrs of time they said it takes to deposit.  Bitstamp has responded to every query within 24hrs.  In this case, the agent said the money was already there, but she was mistaken and looking at the first 2k deposit.   I sent another email explaining that.  I got a support email the next day saying they needed more info due to the size/volume thresholds I had exceeded with this deposit.  Some very personal finance questions, but I understand why so I answered them.  Within the next 24hrs they released my funds.   Being in different timezones probably added an extra 48hrs for me in getting this finalized but that isn't their fault.   The whole process and responsiveness has been good when you understand why its happening, so not upset.  Just wanted to relay my experience so it can help others plan when dealing with sums that exceed the reporting limit.
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January 15, 2014, 05:12:03 PM
 #1119

Update for me.   My money is now in my account.  It took  only next day (1 day) to review my second verification data to post the money into the account.  The questions feel a little invasive, but I understand the need for making sure its from "viable" sources.   Examples are:
what are my banks?
documented example of where money came from?
how I plan to use bitcoin?

The process overall for the deposit was reasonable given their need to comply with laws.  Only suggestion again is adding to the FAQ some info around verification and timelines for funds that exceed some thresholds.

Here is a timeline in my case if it helps others plan.   I am a US citizen.
1. I opened my Bitstamp account three weeks ago approx.
2. Verification took around 1 week (passport + utility photo).
3.  I sent a $2k deposit test from my US Bank to Bitstamp's bank in Slovenia.  It took around 24hrs, slightly more, for my bank to complete sending it and for Bitstamp to post it.
4.  I have also moved around 18K USD worth of bitcoins in and back out in some tests (coins came from coinbase trades), both were essentially instant, as well as trading with it while it was in Bitstamp (with a bot as well).  
5.  I then transferred ~60K USD from my bank to Bitstamp.  My bank completed the wire within around 14hrs (sent Thursday at 3pm, bank completed it around 14 hrs later my side in the early 'am' according to timestamps).
6.  On Monday I contacted Bitstamp to check the status of the transfer as I was past the declared 24hrs of time they said it takes to deposit.  Bitstamp has responded to every query within 24hrs.  In this case, the agent said the money was already there, but she was mistaken and looking at the first 2k deposit.   I sent another email explaining that.  I got a support email the next day saying they needed more info due to the size/volume thresholds I had exceeded with this deposit.  Some very personal finance questions, but I understand why so I answered them.  Within the next 24hrs they released my funds.   Being in different timezones probably added an extra 48hrs for me in getting this finalized but that isn't their fault.   The whole process and responsiveness has been good when you understand why its happening, so not upset.  Just wanted to relay my experience so it can help others plan when dealing with sums that exceed the reporting limit.


Sounds good. Thanks a lot for keeping us updated, and giving us a detailed insight into how larger deposits are processed at the moment.

All in all, I think that, right now, Bitstamp is probably the safest exchange if your plan is to buy and sell in relatively large volume.

IMO they'd be well advised to hire someone who handles PR for them, updating their twitter/facebook/this forum more frequently, but in principle, I trust them more than I trust, for example, mtgox.

Not sure which Bitcoin wallet to use? I can highly recommend Electrum.
Electrum is an open-source lightweight client: user friendly, extremely fast, and one of the safest ways to store and use your bitcoins.
Executables are available on the Electrum homepage, so you can get a Bitcoin wallet up and running on your own computer in a few minutes.
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January 15, 2014, 08:32:59 PM
 #1120

All in all, I think that, right now, Bitstamp is probably the safest exchange if your plan is to buy and sell in relatively large volume.
Not sure, I have a similar problem. A week ago, some functions including withdrawal function stopped working.
I have a week talking to support, forward different documents (often the same documents for different guys from support) - results = zero.
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