SealsWithClubs.eu | Largest Bitcoin Poker Site | No Banking | Fast Cashouts

[wwwin]

You should change the software. No matter how much you call it not rigged..
It is rigged. The variance is simply too much. and people river everything, after going all in on the turn or the flop.

No it's not. 

You are a moron.

Of all the problems and challenges Seals has (I will not make a list, but I could), you picked one that is entirely not real.

There are arguments to be made for different software.  Your's is not one.

Switch to checkers.

I would have to agree.  I have looked at the RNG that Maven uses and the math behind it...it is open source and can be downloaded from the Briggs site as well as a utility program to test it.
http://briggsoft.com/docs/pmavens/Utilities.htm#shuffle
...I am convinced that it is not rigged.  I would trust the RNG more than Bovada' and ACR's.
Disconnections and small player base are an issue. ..RNG and cash outs are not.
This guy is a noob.

[Micon]

I use your poker site until few month ^^ Its a good place , thanks for it . im still a newby in but i withdraw few times  thanks to freerolls

thks again ^^

Enjoy it!

"Tell 'em where ya' got it from"

tyvm for playing on SwC

[Micon]

Disconnections and small player base are an issue. ..RNG and cash outs are not.

That is very well said IMO

1)  There will always be rigtards.  ALWAYS. #GoodScientist using absolutes.

2)  Disconnects are something that we are working hard to fix.  The server-side improvements being designed now address this.  It seems to effect some players regularly and the majority of players not at all.  ST6 seems to have a solution and it will be first tested on the beta server then pushed live when ready.  Players can read this thread and judge for themselves, but it's something we very much know about and are very actively coding a fix.

3)  I am very proud of SwC's cashout times.  So consistant over our 3 year history.  IMO something to look back on and say "we have done this right so far" 

[cAPSLOCK]

1)  There will always be rigtards.  ALWAYS. #GoodScientist using absolutes.

And I have come to understand, believe, and celebrate the fact this means there will always be poker.

It's still fun to mock them though.

[Wardrick]

1)   I get disconnected sometimes on my PC w/ethernet to a nice & fast, USA metropolitan area internet.  ST6 is working hard on this issue.  This is a big part of server-side improvements that are ongoing.

2)  20 Chip 1k GTD! that has been growing in popularity pops off in ~9 minutes

3) The BIG BTC, largest bitcoin poker tournament each week with 10 bitcoins guaranteed pops off in ~2h9m

4) Anyone wishing to join the affiliate program hit me up micon@sealswithclubs.eu


GLGLGLGLGL to my online poker players filling their battle stations with MTT screens today!

You should change the software. No matter how much you call it not rigged..
It is rigged. The variance is simply too much. and people river everything, after going all in on the turn or the flop.

There is such things as bad runs. Just last week I won a tournament of about 900 chips and for every single tournament I played after that, probably around 10 ones that were actually worth something I got screwed over. Ex. KK losing to QQ all in pre-flop, someone having 34 suited and then getting a flush two spades on the turn and river after I was betting high with 3 of a kind, 10-10 losing to 2-2 pre flop. Never had such bad luck so I'm taking a break for awhile. Sometimes it's just the cards you get.

[tspacepilot]

^^^ Couldn't agree more.  It's impossible to look back and say "this or that *should* have happened".  What happened is what happened.  If you don't like your odds, you should fold.  But odds are just odds, not absolutes, that's really the point of the game, I think.

[Micon]

But odds are just odds, not absolutes

^this

And if you record every instance (EVERY INSTANCE!) over a large sample size you can verify things are as they seem, shuffle is properly random on SwC.

[nutildah]

Hey Micon,

When are you going to start cleaning up the rampant cheating and collusion that happens in >50% of your NL tables?

Any time you have 2 or more players playing at more than 1 table together, they should be auto-kicked. If they continue patterns of collusion they should be banned. This is common sense.

I encourage everyone to boycott Seals With Clubs until Micon at least attempts to do something about the cheaters. The odds can never be fair when cheating is allowed. You will have more fun playing PokerStars.

[cAPSLOCK]

Hey Micon,

When are you going to start cleaning up the rampant cheating and collusion that happens in >50% of your NL tables?

Any time you have 2 or more players playing at more than 1 table together, they should be auto-kicked. If they continue patterns of collusion they should be banned. This is common sense.

I encourage everyone to boycott Seals With Clubs until Micon at least attempts to do something about the cheaters. The odds can never be fair when cheating is allowed. You will have more fun playing PokerStars.

I agree this is an issue to some extent or another but "Any time you have 2 or more players playing at more than 1 table together, they should be auto-kicked."??  That is overly draconian IMO.  And I imagine as the recipient of the rake Micon et al don't want to virtually disallow multitabling.  For a small compony(miss you mosrite) like seals the challenge to eliminate collusion and cheating is pretty mammoth.  Stars has an entire department and proprietary reporting to help with this...

tl;dr  Your description of the problem is good.  Your suggestion of a solution is not so good.  it isn;t simple either.

[Wardrick]

Hey Micon,

When are you going to start cleaning up the rampant cheating and collusion that happens in >50% of your NL tables?

Any time you have 2 or more players playing at more than 1 table together, they should be auto-kicked. If they continue patterns of collusion they should be banned. This is common sense.

I encourage everyone to boycott Seals With Clubs until Micon at least attempts to do something about the cheaters. The odds can never be fair when cheating is allowed. You will have more fun playing PokerStars.

I agree this is an issue to some extent or another but "Any time you have 2 or more players playing at more than 1 table together, they should be auto-kicked."??  That is overly draconian IMO.  And I imagine as the recipient of the rake Micon et al don't want to virtually disallow multitabling.  For a small compony(miss you mosrite) like seals the challenge to eliminate collusion and cheating is pretty mammoth.  Stars has an entire department and proprietary reporting to help with this...

tl;dr  Your description of the problem is good.  Your suggestion of a solution is not so good.  it isn;t simple either.

The only way this could be done w/o punishing honest players is to permanently ban any account w/ the chips still in them if they're playing from the same IP on the same table.

[Micon]

1)  If it's in red and bolded, it's fucking important.


2) SwC uses many techniques to detect collusion.  As you may imagine, anonymous btc poker is a nice target and we know that.  Collusion is actively monitored & some of you may have played with the filthy fucks and gotten a refund from "Collusion" before. 

3) If you suspect collusion, please tell us ASAP or post your findings publicly if you feel that is the best course of action. >>  Support@sealswithclubs.eu <<

4)  I'm going to rock the mic and toss out a 400 chip freeroll tonight starting ~7ish on DonkDown.  Will be talking about Leah McGrath Goodman's last few Newsweek articles and taking callers.  724-LOL-DONK after the show starts.

[coins101]

noob question.

Is gaming only with Bitcoin legal in the USA?

In particular, because the IRS called BTC and crypto assets and not a currency, does it skirt around the gaming restrictions?

any pointers to online references, much appreciated - if they exist.

thanks in advance.

[nioc]

The laws are for companies not players.  AFAIK only the state of Washington has a law the covers players and it has never been used against a player.

Sorry I no longer have the good links but it should be easy to find info.

[coins101]

The laws are for companies not players.  AFAIK only the state of Washington has a law the covers players and it has never been used against a player.

Sorry I no longer have the good links but it should be easy to find info.

Thanks.

I found this Wikipedia overview useful, but you can never tell how accurate that information is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Scheinberg

It does seem that any BTC sites based outside the USA, but accepting customers from the USA are operating at risk?

[nutildah]

2) SwC uses many techniques to detect collusion. 

Whatever they are, they're not good enough.

You shouldn't let people play at multiple tables, OR multiple tables together. The fact that you allow both of these things makes it infinitely easier for people to cheat than if you just banned this behavior altogether.

But you're not going to do this so, sorry, I can't ethically support your site.

Anybody who actually cares about their BTC should steer clear of SWC until they fix this glaring problem.

(I also bolded it so you know its extra important)

[Micon]

2) SwC uses many techniques to detect collusion. 

Whatever they are, they're not good enough.

You shouldn't let people play at multiple tables, OR multiple tables together. The fact that you allow both of these things makes it infinitely easier for people to cheat than if you just banned this behavior altogether.

But you're not going to do this so, sorry, I can't ethically support your site.

Anybody who actually cares about their BTC should steer clear of SWC until they fix this glaring problem.

(I also bolded it so you know its extra important)

We monitor & punish collusion, so I don't see why players couldn't multi-table, occasionally they will be playing with a guy from another table.  Player pools per limit are pretty thin at this early stage of SwC, if a guy is multi-tabling similar limits he could easily be naturally playing with 1 of the guys from a different table.

If you found collusion on SwC, why not msg it to us?  post proof publicly (PPP) ?

There are many times in this massive thread that a guy loses then screams collusion, but very rarely is there any proof to back up those claims - because like I said - we monitor and punish collusion, and in 2014 we have done it well IMO.  As always - if you see something shady - please call it out and show your work - don't make vague statements no one can verify.


Also DonkDown Radio about now
 

[skivrmt]

2) SwC uses many techniques to detect collusion. 

Whatever they are, they're not good enough.

You shouldn't let people play at multiple tables, OR multiple tables together. The fact that you allow both of these things makes it infinitely easier for people to cheat than if you just banned this behavior altogether.

But you're not going to do this so, sorry, I can't ethically support your site.

Anybody who actually cares about their BTC should steer clear of SWC until they fix this glaring problem.

(I also bolded it so you know its extra important)

Shouldn't let people multi table?  That's kinda why most of us play online poker isn't it??  I would drive myself nuts if I couldn't play more than one table at time.  And because player pool so thin, yes, you do get many of the same players on multiple tables.

Collusion in NL I think is fairly easy to detect and actually play against.  I'm not overly worried about collusion in NL ring games.  PLO though is a very different breed.  It has certainly gone on in those games and continues to and is a lot harder to detect if done properly.

[dave23]

2) SwC uses many techniques to detect collusion. 

Whatever they are, they're not good enough.

You shouldn't let people play at multiple tables, OR multiple tables together. The fact that you allow both of these things makes it infinitely easier for people to cheat than if you just banned this behavior altogether.

But you're not going to do this so, sorry, I can't ethically support your site.

Anybody who actually cares about their BTC should steer clear of SWC until they fix this glaring problem.

(I also bolded it so you know its extra important)

I don't understand the relationship between multi-tabling and collusion.

[Mattster28]

Right now there is a player in the 66 freeroll with 10 accounts. afk, IAFK, oafk, pafk, qafk, rafk, tafk, uafk, wafk and yafk. If all those accounts are not the same person I will eat my hat! Pretty sad this kind off shit is happening on Seals, along with everything else. I guess that's why they call it the wild west of poker.

[ONLYfree]

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