SealsWithClubs.eu | Largest Bitcoin Poker Site | No Banking | Fast Cashouts

[tspacepilot]

I still have not heard back from seals about my bitcoin withdrawal.

I'm planning on taking legal action against Bryan Micon, and am going to file a complaint with the DOJ about him defrauding me. I don't think I could win a case in court over this, but given Micon's status as a US citizen and his affiliation with an unlicensed online gambling operation, I'm sure he'll be facing some legal issues if I pursue this.

Yikes.

Are you sure it's not just an oversight?  I haven't had any issues withdrawing and I haven't heard of anyone else having issues either.  Sometimes it takes a day or two (max) because they process withdraws by hand.  My guess is that you're jumping the gun here.

[donk4u]

I still have not heard back from seals about my bitcoin withdrawal.

I'm planning on taking legal action against Bryan Micon, and am going to file a complaint with the DOJ about him defrauding me. I don't think I could win a case in court over this, but given Micon's status as a US citizen and his affiliation with an unlicensed online gambling operation, I'm sure he'll be facing some legal issues if I pursue this.

Yikes.

Are you sure it's not just an oversight?  I haven't had any issues withdrawing and I haven't heard of anyone else having issues either.  Sometimes it takes a day or two (max) because they process withdraws by hand.  My guess is that you're jumping the gun here.

Not an oversight as pete played as shitvaccumer and colluded thus he had his bigbtc tournament win confiscated. Gl with your suit Pete. I call bluff on your litigation effort. Try reading the thread pilot would help before you respond with idiotic gibberish its a few posts back.

[donk4u]

If you're a new player you should watch out on this site.

I joined the site a few weeks ago to play the bigbtc, and won it. I was ShitVacuumer. The site didn't pay my winnings, changed the password on my account so I can't log in, and ignores my emails.

They wouldn't dare rip off their regulars, but if you're new and hit a big score they probably see you as an easy mark to fuck over.

^^^^^

[tspacepilot]

I still have not heard back from seals about my bitcoin withdrawal.

I'm planning on taking legal action against Bryan Micon, and am going to file a complaint with the DOJ about him defrauding me. I don't think I could win a case in court over this, but given Micon's status as a US citizen and his affiliation with an unlicensed online gambling operation, I'm sure he'll be facing some legal issues if I pursue this.

Yikes.

Are you sure it's not just an oversight?  I haven't had any issues withdrawing and I haven't heard of anyone else having issues either.  Sometimes it takes a day or two (max) because they process withdraws by hand.  My guess is that you're jumping the gun here.

Not an oversight as pete played as shitvaccumer and colluded thus he had his bigbtc tournament win confiscated. Gl with your suit Pete. I call bluff on your litigation effort. Try reading the thread pilot would help before you respond with idiotic gibberish its a few posts back.

I see. I see.  Yes I saw the shitvaccumer guy griping a few posts back and the accusations of collusion.  Out of curiosity, I suppose that there must have been some pretty concrete proof he was cheating if you guys are keeping winnings.

[cAPSLOCK]

I see. I see.  Yes I saw the shitvaccumer guy griping a few posts back and the accusations of collusion.  Out of curiosity, I suppose that there must have been some pretty concrete proof he was cheating if you guys are keeping winnings.

Collusion is pretty easy to see when you have IP addresses and hand histories.

[PeteThePlaya]

I still have not heard back from seals about my bitcoin withdrawal.

I'm planning on taking legal action against Bryan Micon, and am going to file a complaint with the DOJ about him defrauding me. I don't think I could win a case in court over this, but given Micon's status as a US citizen and his affiliation with an unlicensed online gambling operation, I'm sure he'll be facing some legal issues if I pursue this.

Yikes.

Are you sure it's not just an oversight?  I haven't had any issues withdrawing and I haven't heard of anyone else having issues either.  Sometimes it takes a day or two (max) because they process withdraws by hand.  My guess is that you're jumping the gun here.

Not an oversight as pete played as shitvaccumer and colluded thus he had his bigbtc tournament win confiscated. Gl with your suit Pete. I call bluff on your litigation effort. Try reading the thread pilot would help before you respond with idiotic gibberish its a few posts back.

Like I said, it's unlikely I can win a case against unknown owners of an unlicensed online gambling site (and I know this fact), but Micon's a US citizen, and I'm sure he's violating laws by promoting this site.

I had nothing to do with any collusion.

[cAPSLOCK]

I still have not heard back from seals about my bitcoin withdrawal.

I'm planning on taking legal action against Bryan Micon, and am going to file a complaint with the DOJ about him defrauding me. I don't think I could win a case in court over this, but given Micon's status as a US citizen and his affiliation with an unlicensed online gambling operation, I'm sure he'll be facing some legal issues if I pursue this.

Yikes.

Are you sure it's not just an oversight?  I haven't had any issues withdrawing and I haven't heard of anyone else having issues either.  Sometimes it takes a day or two (max) because they process withdraws by hand.  My guess is that you're jumping the gun here.

Not an oversight as pete played as shitvaccumer and colluded thus he had his bigbtc tournament win confiscated. Gl with your suit Pete. I call bluff on your litigation effort. Try reading the thread pilot would help before you respond with idiotic gibberish its a few posts back.

Like I said, it's unlikely I can win a case against unknown owners of an unlicensed online gambling site (and I know this fact), but Micon's a US citizen, and I'm sure he's violating laws by promoting this site.

I had nothing to do with any collusion.

Go away.  Oh, but thanks for the .5Btc. 

[tspacepilot]

Like I said, it's unlikely I can win a case against unknown owners of an unlicensed online gambling site (and I know this fact), but Micon's a US citizen, and I'm sure he's violating laws by promoting this site.

I had nothing to do with any collusion.

They seem to be suggesting that there were other players signed in on your same IP at the same time.  Whether that's true or not should just be a matter of the facts.  "I had nothing to do with any collusion" seems like a very weak argument in this case.

I think the other weird thing about your stance here is that you seem to be suggesting that you are going to get Micon into trouble by accusing him of defrauding you while taking part in the same illegal activity.  That is, can you really say "you need to get that guy for unlicensed gambling" && "btw, he took my money while i was doing unlicensed gambling"?  I'm not a lawyer but it seems like this is a weakness to your stance.

[nioc]

In the US there are no laws except for Washington State that prevent a person from playing poker on the internet and those Washington laws have never been used.  That being said Pete doesn't have a leg to stand on.

[tspacepilot]

In the US there are no laws except for Washington State that prevent a person from playing poker on the internet and those Washington laws have never been used.  That being said Pete doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Out of curiosity, can you point out the specific section of Washington State law that you refer to?  I'd be curious to see what it says and also to see what the context was when it was enacted.

[WearsMyLiberty]

In the US there are no laws except for Washington State that prevent a person from playing poker on the internet and those Washington laws have never been used.  That being said Pete doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Out of curiosity, can you point out the specific section of Washington State law that you refer to?  I'd be curious to see what it says and also to see what the context was when it was enacted.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/billdocs/2005-06/Pdf/Bill%20Reports/House/6613-S.HBA.pdf

Summary of Bill:

The Internet and telecommunications transmission systems are added to the list of technologies
that may not be used to send or receive gambling information under the Gambling Act. The
penalty for knowingly transmitting or receiving gambling information through such technologies
is increased from a gross misdemeanor, which is punishable by up to one year in confinement and a
$5,000 fine, to an unranked Class C felony offense, which is punishable by up to one year in
confinement and a $10,000 fine.

Although like nioc said, it's never been used against someone playing poker.

I don't think anyone has to worry about the law as a player.  There are no federal laws against playing online poker, and even in Washington where it's technically a felony they aren't looking to bust players.

[badjacks99]

I got kinda sick of SWC with all the scammers and crap that goes on. I haven't played there much at all for the past few months and I miss the free rolls anyway. So I was wondering if there is any value In a 5.5k krill account? if anyone has any info on what it might be worth, I would greatly appriciate it. Thanks Guys.

[tspacepilot]

I got kinda sick of SWC with all the scammers and crap that goes on. I haven't played there much at all for the past few months and I miss the free rolls anyway. So I was wondering if there is any value In a 5.5k krill account? if anyone has any info on what it might be worth, I would greatly appriciate it. Thanks Guys.

Value should be whatever you someone offers you for it.  5.5K kr can get you into a couple of the krillrolls.  I don't think the krill has any value other than the tickets to the krillrolls, right?

[tspacepilot]

In the US there are no laws except for Washington State that prevent a person from playing poker on the internet and those Washington laws have never been used.  That being said Pete doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Out of curiosity, can you point out the specific section of Washington State law that you refer to?  I'd be curious to see what it says and also to see what the context was when it was enacted.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/billdocs/2005-06/Pdf/Bill%20Reports/House/6613-S.HBA.pdf

Summary of Bill:

The Internet and telecommunications transmission systems are added to the list of technologies
that may not be used to send or receive gambling information under the Gambling Act. The
penalty for knowingly transmitting or receiving gambling information through such technologies
is increased from a gross misdemeanor, which is punishable by up to one year in confinement and a
$5,000 fine, to an unranked Class C felony offense, which is punishable by up to one year in
confinement and a $10,000 fine.

Although like nioc said, it's never been used against someone playing poker.

I don't think anyone has to worry about the law as a player.  There are no federal laws against playing online poker, and even in Washington where it's technically a felony they aren't looking to bust players.

Thanks for the link and the summary!

Interesting turn of phrase 'gambling information'.  Seems to refer to helping someone find a bookie or something like that, right?

[flayway]

What is easiest way get hud working? I use hem2. To hem1 also fine can use that also.

[mem]

I still have not heard back from seals about my bitcoin withdrawal.

I'm planning on taking legal action against Bryan Micon, and am going to file a complaint with the DOJ about him defrauding me. I don't think I could win a case in court over this, but given Micon's status as a US citizen and his affiliation with an unlicensed online gambling operation, I'm sure he'll be facing some legal issues if I pursue this.

Yikes.

Are you sure it's not just an oversight?  I haven't had any issues withdrawing and I haven't heard of anyone else having issues either.  Sometimes it takes a day or two (max) because they process withdraws by hand.  My guess is that you're jumping the gun here.

Not an oversight as pete played as shitvaccumer and colluded thus he had his bigbtc tournament win confiscated. Gl with your suit Pete. I call bluff on your litigation effort. Try reading the thread pilot would help before you respond with idiotic gibberish its a few posts back.

I see. I see.  Yes I saw the shitvaccumer guy griping a few posts back and the accusations of collusion.  Out of curiosity, I suppose that there must have been some pretty concrete proof he was cheating if you guys are keeping winnings.

Collusion is a huge problem for online poker and Im glad to see seals taking a hard stance against it.
OTOH you would want some concrete evidence that there had been collusion, ie multiple players on the same table from the same IP.

If you make the argument that the player played uncanny hands, then Id make the same call against Micon....
I played him in the early days of seals, lets just say his hands were absolutely uncanny, I thought it was very suspicious as I knew site operators could see player hands.
I bitched and grumbled, but at the end of the day I wrote it off as Micon being an excellent player, myself being a poor loser and most importantly unprovable.

In short, if they have proof that you have misused their service they are well within their rights to forfeit all your winnings.
If they fail to prove that you have, then they still have the right to refuse you service.
If they have no proof but only suspicion then they should not be confiscating any funds but they should refuse future service.

About to hop on to seals now and have a play.

[nioc]

Remember that no site will provide you with the proof they have of someone's collusion as it would reveal the methods they use to detect it.  If a site is regulated you could bring a complaint to the regulator which will result in absolutely nothing.  Even though there are no repercussions for a site if they ban a player or confiscate funds it is not in their interest to do so, it would be against their interest.

The regulations that were put in place in Nevada and New Jersey have more protections for the player.  Although this is good IMO it will make no practical difference in these cases other than the fact that the player could face criminal charges.

[Micon]

Hi Mem, thanks for dropping by and leaving your honest thoughts. 

collusion is something that ST6 & I have discussed at great length.  ST6 has coded many hours of collusion detection scripts and other aggregation techniques to identify and refund collusion. 

anonymous bitcoin online poker will certainly have a continuous stream of unscrupulous players trying to cheat.  This is not something that should be thought of as "a few bad players" but more as a small % of total humans.  It is a sad fact but one that must be faced head on - there will always be a steady stream of those that will try and collude. 

ST6 has been building while we play.  There has been a 1+ year focus on security and general site hardening.  Collusion has been one of the areas given much, much attention. 

as Mem & nioc hinted at, there is no way we can say "here are the tools and exact methodology we use to catch cheaters"  - there is no way would say "here are the attack vectors we are actively scanning, now go try and beat us at it!"    From a security standpoint, I think it's easy to understand why you simply have to believe us when we say "We actively monitor and police our games" 

[tspacepilot]

Hi Mem, thanks for dropping by and leaving your honest thoughts. 

collusion is something that ST6 & I have discussed at great length.  ST6 has coded many hours of collusion detection scripts and other aggregation techniques to identify and refund collusion. 

anonymous bitcoin online poker will certainly have a continuous stream of unscrupulous players trying to cheat.  This is not something that should be thought of as "a few bad players" but more as a small % of total humans.  It is a sad fact but one that must be faced head on - there will always be a steady stream of those that will try and collude. 

ST6 has been building while we play.  There has been a 1+ year focus on security and general site hardening.  Collusion has been one of the areas given much, much attention. 

as Mem & nioc hinted at, there is no way we can say "here are the tools and exact methodology we use to catch cheaters"  - there is no way would say "here are the attack vectors we are actively scanning, now go try and beat us at it!"    From a security standpoint, I think it's easy to understand why you simply have to believe us when we say "We actively monitor and police our games" 

I guess you guys have good points about revealing your proof might be tantamount to opening yourself up to further abuse.  However, I really thought mem's point was solid:

* if you have suspicions you should refuse future service (but not confiscate winnings)
* if you have proof you should do both (refuse future service and confiscate winnings)

In this case, simply saying "you had multiple players on your table from the same ip" could probably be considered proof and wouldn't blow your detection techniques.  Then again, there's probably something more subtle here that I'm missing.

[donk4u]

Is anyone lagging? I asked support said no one reporting problems. Its def not my computer called my internet company said my speed was well above avg after doing tests even sent by a guy to give me new router and im still fucking lagging.