[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[AlexGR]

Wow ! This coin is amazing and the X11 is even better ... Now i have cooler gpu and no problems ! Thank to devs

You do realize that cooler GPU means it's less effective to mine with a GPU and thus we practically waste our hardware resources, right...?

We have our relatively expensive hardware (with it's own price amortization over time) which is partially idle during X11 mining.

Of course, it's absolutely not a problem in practice if GPUs are still better than anything else available and every GPU miners have a very similar speed penalty (nobody can utilize the full raw power of his/her GPU better than others). But it's technically still inefficiency which is never good, only neutral at best.

So, instead of a feature, it's more like a bug which doesn't need to be fixed. It's not an improvement but a neutral thing with a possibility to become a negative thing.

Wow I'm amazed at this pure nonsense.

1 - Less GPU intensive != less effective
2 - Less GPU intensive = lower energy consumption, that's a better energy efficiency
3 - Less GPU intensive = "our relatively expensive hardware", like you said, lasts longer

You spend less on your electricity bill and you can keep your hardware longer, even resell it at a good price. What are you complaining about ?

 Haters gonna hate.

 X11 different perspective. Summertime heat not an issue. Less electric consumed. Less noise. Rig works 24/7 for weeks without a hick-up, prolonged lifespan etc.

 Winter. a Truly excellent virtually silent heater, that makes a profit.

 Ineffective? Inefficient? Neither. DRK get sent and get received without issue, 2.5 minutes flat. 100% effective and efficient.

 Optimised is the word you're looking for.

He's not a hater guys, relax. He just says that, obviously, if the GPU was processing full time it would not be consuming half the energy. CPUs for example don't have this less-heat-issue-at-full-load so, apparently, it's not the algo itself, but rather the GPU implementation of the algo.

Could it be improved? Perhaps, but then we'd all consume more energy. So as far as noone has a much better GPU miner we are all better off. The problems start with FPGAs and ASICs when the pressure for more optimized GPU miners will mount.

We'll have to see what nvidia can do with cuda too... perhaps cuda might be better suited to x11 than amd/opencl.

[lovelyrice]

Very soon Coinotron will add DarkCoin. That means that we will not have digging problem anymore Cheesy.

[thelonecrouton]

24hr volume>500BTC on Mintpal, plenty of money changing hands that's for sure.

[blajde]

Wow ! This coin is amazing and the X11 is even better ... Now i have cooler gpu and no problems ! Thank to devs

You do realize that cooler GPU means it's less effective to mine with a GPU and thus we practically waste our hardware resources, right...?

We have our relatively expensive hardware (with it's own price amortization over time) which is partially idle during X11 mining.

Of course, it's absolutely not a problem in practice if GPUs are still better than anything else available and every GPU miners have a very similar speed penalty (nobody can utilize the full raw power of his/her GPU better than others). But it's technically still inefficiency which is never good, only neutral at best.

So, instead of a feature, it's more like a bug which doesn't need to be fixed. It's not an improvement but a neutral thing with a possibility to become a negative thing.

Wow I'm amazed at this pure nonsense.

1 - Less GPU intensive != less effective
2 - Less GPU intensive = lower energy consumption, that's a better energy efficiency
3 - Less GPU intensive = "our relatively expensive hardware", like you said, lasts longer

You spend less on your electricity bill and you can keep your hardware longer, even resell it at a good price. What are you complaining about ?

 Haters gonna hate.

 X11 different perspective. Summertime heat not an issue. Less electric consumed. Less noise. Rig works 24/7 for weeks without a hick-up, prolonged lifespan etc.

 Winter. a Truly excellent virtually silent heater, that makes a profit.

 Ineffective? Inefficient? Neither. DRK get sent and get received without issue, 2.5 minutes flat. 100% effective and efficient.

 Optimised is the word you're looking for.

He's not a hater guys, relax. He just says that, obviously, if the GPU was processing full time it would not be consuming half the energy. CPUs for example don't have this less-heat-issue-at-full-load so, apparently, it's not the algo itself, but rather the GPU implementation of the algo.

Could it be improved? Perhaps, but then we'd all consume more energy. So as far as noone has a much better GPU miner we are all better off. The problems start with FPGAs and ASICs when the pressure for more optimized GPU miners will mount.

We'll have to see what nvidia can do with cuda too... perhaps cuda might be better suited to x11 than amd/opencl.

Yeah but he has to understand that when he says certain stuff he also indirectly says other stuff. His fundamental logic was flawed which we addressed. Some hubris was detected aswell.

Along the road there is this statement that he claimed that people believe without knowing anything about - neither question or care to look up.

[hanvude2424]

please tell me which pool is the best for darkcoin mining

[GhostPlayer]

please tell me which pool is the best for darkcoin mining

p2pool !!!

http://drk.poolhash.org

[miningpoolhub]

please tell me which pool is the best for darkcoin mining

Mining Pool Hub
http://darkcoin.miningpoolhub.com


Well, it's our pool. It may sound advertising, but I can say our pool is the best one of them

- 1% Fee
  We don't raise the fee. it was 1% from the start.

- DDoS protected
  Didn't experience downtime these days.

- Good block finding stats.
  Check out here and compare with other pools.
  http://darkcoin.miningpoolhub.com/index.php?page=statistics&action=blocks

[coins101]

please tell me which pool is the best for darkcoin mining

might help

http://drk.poolhash.org/poolhash.html

[chompyZ]

Hi Evan,

I think it is a good solution, but it has a couple small drawbacks - I want to make a couple additional proposals to address these issues:

Here are the drawbacks:

1) If John wants to darksend his whole balance of 102 he is granted little anonymity unless addtitional people step up and volunteer inputs of 102 coins. A mechanism to solicit the nodes participating in the pool to submit additional 102 coin inputs might need to be added.  Alternatively (or in addition), nodes could be sent CHANGE of 102 coins to one of their change addresses.  (this idea of sending known receive amounts to various change addresses might be useful in other situtations as well - I will try to think about this a bit more)

I suppose it is possible (in theory) that John could be inputting 102 coins into the pool and sending less, while someone else is inputting say 104 coins, sending 102 and receiving 2 back as change. I still think this is a problem though because extremely strong inferences could be drawn pointing to John as the sender of 102 coins.

2) The problem of large spends exposing the sender is still an issue, denominated change will help create some fog, but VERY strong inferences of who sent what to whom could still be drawn if a "full change block" is spent in a single large spend, for example if Joe sends that 80DRK change block above to coinbase, it could be strongly inferred that he was the sender of 73 coins to mary, and now the feds have his personal info (coinbase).  Although this doesn't prove that Joe sent mary 73 coins, it might be enough evidence to grant a warrant to search Joe's residence.  So I would like to propose a strong countermeasure that will largely solve this problem.

First, in order to prevent "full change blocks" from giving away the sender, I think you should try to build in some logic that tries (if possible) to break these large change blocks up when making subsequent spends. The key here is that you would want to try to break up these denominated "change blocks" into smaller chunks that might match one of the other "change chunks" from that pool.

For example:

 - John adds 102DRK to the pool, sends 101DRK to Lisa and receives back 1DRK as change addresses E=1DRK
 - Joe adds 153DRK to the pool, sends 73DRK to Mary and receives back 80DRK as change addresses F=50DRK, G=10DRK,H=10DRK,I=5DRK,J=5DRK
  -Suzy adds 240DRK to the pool, sends 100DRK to Jane and receives back 140DRK on change addresses K=50DRK, L=50DRK, M=10DRK, N=10DRK, O=10DRK, P=5DRK, Q=5DRK

Later Suzy wants to darksend a different person "Jack" 104 coins

She sends Jack 80 coins (composed of addresses L=50DRK, M=10DRK, N=10DRK, P=5DRK, Q=5DRK) + 24 coins from her wallet that did NOT participate in the above pool.

This would give the appearance of outing Suzy as the person who sent 73DRK to Mary and received 80 back as change.  But as you can see it was actually JOE that made this tranasction! Mary is faking it!

Of course we wouldn't want to tell suzy's wallet to try to make a chunk of 80 because then suzy would know that Joe sent 73 coins to mary, we want suzy's wallet to figure out all of the possible combinations, then just send one random one.

So:  

Suzy's wallet would try to spoof "possible change blocks"of:

102-1 = 1 <- an actual change block!
102-73= 29
102-100 = 2
153-101= 52
153-73 = 80<- an actual change block!
153-100= 53
240-101=139
240-73=167
240-100=140<- an actual change block!

As you can see some of these combos actually match real change blocks, others do not. Suzy doesn't know which do and which do not, she tries to assemble whichever change block she can from the change that she has.

The beauty of this is that suzy is not privy to any information that is NOT already on the blockchain, but she DOES have enough info to spoof ALL of the possible "change blocks"

I think this does a lot to ablate the "dirty change blocks" problem.

In the end I think the "Dark Receive" address idea (addresses composed of many sub-addresses) is a superior solution, but the above does a hell of a lot to ablate the problems that we have been talking about.

Let me know what you think.  Hopefully I didn't mess up the logic in my head  

Hi Simcom,

In spite of my non-formal-tech background, I like your solution VERY MUCH.

However, I couldn't figure out one aspect in the flow.
Can you ELI5 how the sender's wallet can look into past transactions on the blockchain, and determine 'possible change blocks'.

thank you  

Sure.  Basically the blockchain lists the inputs and outputs into the pool (ouputs include denominated change and non-denominated receives). So the inputs from my example are 102, 153, 240.  The big caveat here is that we are assuming these amounts are sitting on a single address each - it's possible that they are already denominated from previous transactions which helps anonymity quite a bit.  In addition to the inputs (102, 153, 240) the outputs are also visible on the blockchain (1, 80, 140) + all of the denominated change that is sent back to the senders via a bunch of different addresses. So suzy just needs to subtract the non-denominated outputs from the various inputs to give the size of all possible "denominated change blocks".

OK, now i get the picture, and I LOVE IT!

imho, it could be great if we made an excel with this logic, and ran a simulation model to see the outcomes of various transaction amounts and conbinations, and what happens after several transactions from the change-addresses.

[godzirra]

What's with the satanic DarkWallet logo? I thought ours was bad. I guess not so much anymore.

[ZPserge]

today a good price DRK 
CPU miner only win 64? have to x32?

[ImI]

What's with the satanic DarkWallet logo? I thought ours was bad. I guess not so much anymore.

lol

yeah, there is some truth in that

[Joshuar]

What's with the satanic DarkWallet logo? I thought ours was bad. I guess not so much anymore.

lol

yeah, there is some truth in that

The darkcoin logo looks 10000000x less "dark" than the bitcoin darkwallet logo. It has the illuminati sign and eye on it L0L.

[fearcoka]

Doge has their own nascar now fuuu.

Guys we need to sponsor something big

[Joshuar]

Doge has their own nascar now fuuu.

Guys we need to sponsor something big

Doge's Nascar race did nothing to help the price..

If you want to advertising in that category(expensive), then having billboards for Darkcoin in Times Square would be great.

[coins101]

Doge has their own nascar now fuuu.

Guys we need to sponsor something big

Doge's Nascar race did nothing to help the price..

If you want to advertising in that category(expensive), then having billboards for Darkcoin in Times Square would be great.

billboards in Shanghai, Macau.

Alternatively, get Banksy to paint a wall

[vertoe]

Any progress on p2pool port for masternode payouts?

[vertoe]

Funny picture for a serious problem!  I too hope this will be resolved well before the 14th!  If I only knew how to code, I'd be doing it, but I don't!  Actually, I'm somewhat surprised there aren't more people with coding skills in crypto currencies.  But then, if my sister is any indication of coders/programmers, they're serious people who don't like to speculate??

There is a bounty! Anyone with coding skills?

https://darkcointalk.org/threads/developement-work-for-p2pool-and-nomp-stratum-patch.360/

https://github.com/chaeplin/p2pool-drk/issues/4

Good quality anything is available for the right price - maybe the bounty should be raised.

Well, raise the bounty for yourself. I added 50 DRK as a start and invited everyone to help out with this bounty.

Edit: Or better, name the price and we see if the community is willing to pay for it. I am.

[GhostPlayer]

Funny picture for a serious problem!  I too hope this will be resolved well before the 14th!  If I only knew how to code, I'd be doing it, but I don't!  Actually, I'm somewhat surprised there aren't more people with coding skills in crypto currencies.  But then, if my sister is any indication of coders/programmers, they're serious people who don't like to speculate??

There is a bounty! Anyone with coding skills?

https://darkcointalk.org/threads/developement-work-for-p2pool-and-nomp-stratum-patch.360/

https://github.com/chaeplin/p2pool-drk/issues/4

Good quality anything is available for the right price - maybe the bounty should be raised.

Well, raise the bounty for yourself. I added 50 DRK as a start and invited everyone to help out with this bounty.

Edit: Or better, name the price and we see if the community is willing to pay for it. I am.

 
 SUPPORT p2pool !!

 Look at what happened this weekend!! If there were no p2pool working, 51% would have been possible - attack reached 42%, with p2pool holding around 12% since coinmine and suchpool were taken out.

Look at Feathercoin and Whitecoin!

 Plus earnings are better than regular pools!!

 Jeezz.. seriously... no coder available for the most hot and promising crypto since BTC?

[janos666]

Wow ! This coin is amazing and the X11 is even better ... Now i have cooler gpu and no problems ! Thank to devs

You do realize that cooler GPU means it's less effective to mine with a GPU and thus we practically waste our hardware resources, right...?

We have our relatively expensive hardware (with it's own price amortization over time) which is partially idle during X11 mining.

Of course, it's absolutely not a problem in practice if GPUs are still better than anything else available and every GPU miners have a very similar speed penalty (nobody can utilize the full raw power of his/her GPU better than others). But it's technically still inefficiency which is never good, only neutral at best.

So, instead of a feature, it's more like a bug which doesn't need to be fixed. It's not an improvement but a neutral thing with a possibility to become a negative thing.

Wow I'm amazed at this pure nonsense.

1 - Less GPU intensive != less effective
2 - Less GPU intensive = lower energy consumption, that's a better energy efficiency
3 - Less GPU intensive = "our relatively expensive hardware", like you said, lasts longer

You spend less on your electricity bill and you can keep your hardware longer, even resell it at a good price. What are you complaining about ?

 Haters gonna hate.

 X11 different perspective. Summertime heat not an issue. Less electric consumed. Less noise. Rig works 24/7 for weeks without a hick-up, prolonged lifespan etc.

 Winter. a Truly excellent virtually silent heater, that makes a profit.

 Ineffective? Inefficient? Neither. DRK get sent and get received without issue, 2.5 minutes flat. 100% effective and efficient.

 Optimised is the word you're looking for.

He's not a hater guys, relax. He just says that, obviously, if the GPU was processing full time it would not be consuming half the energy. CPUs for example don't have this less-heat-issue-at-full-load so, apparently, it's not the algo itself, but rather the GPU implementation of the algo.

Could it be improved? Perhaps, but then we'd all consume more energy. So as far as noone has a much better GPU miner we are all better off. The problems start with FPGAs and ASICs when the pressure for more optimized GPU miners will mount.

We'll have to see what nvidia can do with cuda too... perhaps cuda might be better suited to x11 than amd/opencl.

Yeah but he has to understand that when he says certain stuff he also indirectly says other stuff. His fundamental logic was flawed which we addressed. Some hubris was detected aswell.

Along the road there is this statement that he claimed that people believe without knowing anything about - neither question or care to look up.

Forgive me???

I simply stated a fact and a handful of stupid people instantly started a nonsense holly war to get me crossed.

If we are honest with each other, then I can say some people wrote some genuinely stupid things while trying to argue with my statement.
I decided to let it flow through and don't even try to wage a war against half of the forum. Partly because you can't win against stupidity and mainly because I didn't intend to undermine the DarkCoin topic with a pointless discussion.


But this post again... I can't help myself, I need to react.



My fundamental logic is straight.
These AMD GPUs which most of us are using for altcoin mining are very good in certain parallelized computation tasks but badly suck in some other tasks.

Scrypt is better suited for these GPUs than X11. Scrypt mining utilizes more raw power than X11 mining. Hence it's more effective to mine Scrypt with them. This is a pure fact.
These GPUs still hate context switching and hard to fully utilize with certain kind of tasks. Ask AMD if you don't believe me.
-> This has nothing to do with profitability. I never implied that!!! That's a completely different story.


I also clearly stated in my original post that this does not mean anything what you later tried to accuse me with.
That was all you. It all came from your mouths, not mine. And it was all stupid.


And I am still the clown here, re-accused with hubris.
You are just plain stupid. End of story. I don't know why I even.... Ok, I will finish this here...