[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[TanteStefana2]

While I totally applaud the effort, no one will use these vending machines with Dash. They may use the blockchain and Apple Pay or NFC, but never Dash. Why? 'Cos you have to buy Dash to spend Dash.

The driver here is the merchant, not the customer.  The customer can simply use apple pay attached to a credit card because they don't see a cost associated with that.  The Merchant on the other hand, sees 3-5% bank fees, chargebacks, disputes, delays in getting funds from the bank.  DASH solves those problems for the Merchant.

Please people, read this a few times. 

[oaxaca]

While I totally applaud the effort, no one will use these vending machines with Dash. They may use the blockchain and Apple Pay or NFC, but never Dash. Why? 'Cos you have to buy Dash to spend Dash.

The driver here is the merchant, not the customer.  The customer can simply use apple pay attached to a credit card because they don't see a cost associated with that.  The Merchant on the other hand, sees 3-5% bank fees, chargebacks, disputes, delays in getting funds from the bank.  DASH solves those problems for the Merchant.

 It does, but the driver can only drive if there is an engine, and in this case that's the consumer.

 A consumer will only consume if there is a necessity, or a problem solved.

 If the merchant can sell a soda cheap enough for the hassle of the consumer to go out and buy Dash, bingo. Unfortunately, that is impossible right now. The actual Point of Sale makes it cheaper, but down the chain he'll have to convert to FIAT to keep his business alive. Add volatility, and the merchant is now a gambler. That is why BitPay et al. exist.

 It's not viable for either at this moment. That, unfortunately, is the cold truth.

Why would anybody use email when we have a perfectly good postal system?

Why would anybody drive in an automobile when we have perfectly good horses?

Email is thousands of times faster, and free, and simple to use.

Cars are hundreds of times faster and easier to maintain.

Crypto-currency saves money on fees and takes control away from centralized banks and (currently) is complicated as hell to understand and use.

...there's really no comparison. The advantages aren't nearly as compelling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlJku_CSyNg

[TanteStefana2]

I thought the DGBB was intended for coin development and the associated funds were intended for coin development.

What about this ?

I don't understand.  Why would you limit it?  We use it for marketing as well?

[GhostPlayer]

 I am absolutely, 100% behind funding merchant adoption mechanisms. This budget proposal though, is way too grand and too novel to allocate so much funding. Proof of concept is one thing, roll-out plans is ludicrous.

 It's a type of project that will NEVER get pulled through without the entire stipulated cost allocation.

 IMHO, it's just too soon for something of this nature and complexity. If in 5 months this is downvoted, who will continue these efforts? It will all go down the drain!

 To gain mass adoption, barriers must be taken down for the consumer. When adoption happens, merchants will sell their mothers to offer such services to their own benefit.

 Obviously, the chicken-egg paradox applies. Who comes first?

Technically, it's proven fact that blockchain is heaven on earth for merchants. The tools are there and half-way crafted. It is very easy to finish them and edify an entire business around it. But if no one comes to taste your punch, what's the use? That is wxactly why we DONT see that many merchants adopting even NFC of Apple Pay which have gzillions more funding that Dash's entire marketcap.

 Even very tech-savvy merchants with a full node have no customers.

 bigrcanada1 - how many bottles of wine have you sold with Dash?

[TanteStefana2]

I am absolutely, 100% behind funding merchant adoption mechanisms. This budget proposal though, is way too grand and too new to allocate so much funding.

 It's a type of project that will NEVER be pulled through without the stipulated cost allocation.

 IMHO, it's just too soon for something of this nature and complexity. If in 5 months this is downvoted, who will continue these efforts? It will all go down the drain!

 To gain mass adoption, barriers must be taken down for the consumer

 Obviously, the chicken-egg paradox applies. Who comes first?

Technically, it's proven fact that blockchain is heaven on earth for merchants. The tools are there and half-way crafted. It is very easy to finish them and edify an entire business around it. But if no one comes to taste your punch, what's the use? That is wxactly why we DONT see that many merchants adopting even NFC of Apple Pay which have gzillions more funding that Dash's entire marketcap.

 When mass adoption happens, all merchants will sell their mothers to offer such services to their own benefit.

 Even very tech-savvy merchants with a full node have no customers.

 bigrcanada1 - how many bottles of wine have you sold with Dash?

So even so Dash is fully useful, and working, we wait?  And wait?  And wait?  Sounds great

BTW, you know I love all of you guys, I just get passionate, and I'll argue my side, even so I'm LATE and should be gone....

[spatula]

While I totally applaud the effort, no one will use these vending machines with Dash. They may use the blockchain and Apple Pay or NFC, but never Dash. Why? 'Cos you have to buy Dash to spend Dash.

The driver here is the merchant, not the customer.  The customer can simply use apple pay attached to a credit card because they don't see a cost associated with that.  The Merchant on the other hand, sees 3-5% bank fees, chargebacks, disputes, delays in getting funds from the bank.  DASH solves those problems for the Merchant.

 It does, but the driver can only drive if there is an engine, and in this case that's the consumer.

 A consumer will only consume if there is a necessity, or a problem solved.

 If the merchant can sell a soda cheap enough for the hassle of the consumer to go out and buy Dash, bingo. Unfortunately, that is impossible right now. The actual Point of Sale makes it cheaper, but down the chain he'll have to convert to FIAT to keep his business alive. Add volatility, and the merchant is now a gambler. That is why BitPay et al. exist.

 It's not viable for either at this moment. That, unfortunately, is the cold truth.

Why would anybody use email when we have a perfectly good postal system?

Why would anybody drive in an automobile when we have perfectly good horses?

Email is thousands of times faster, and free, and simple to use.

Cars are hundreds of times faster and easier to maintain.

Crypto-currency saves money on fees and takes control away from centralized banks and (currently) is complicated as hell to understand and use.

...there's really no comparison. The advantages aren't nearly as compelling.

Exactly. Dash has many benefits over fiat, but not when it comes to simplicity and (I believe the BIGGEST ISSUE IN CRYPTO) difficulty to obtain the currency. If there was a proposal that we could fund that would streamline the conversion of fiat to DASH I would LOVE to support it. That's the biggest problem in crypto. Dash has been able to be the first resolve many major issues with bitcoin, except this one.

Until it is easy for people to obtain Dash, it will not be used widely. Core team should focus on development, we as a community should try to find a solution to this problem.

[GhostPlayer]

So even so Dash is fully useful, and working, we wait?  And wait?  And wait?  Sounds great

 Who said anything about waiting? I just dont agree with this plan in particular. I voted yes for the Dash 'n Drink.

[TanteStefana2]

While I totally applaud the effort, no one will use these vending machines with Dash. They may use the blockchain and Apple Pay or NFC, but never Dash. Why? 'Cos you have to buy Dash to spend Dash.

The driver here is the merchant, not the customer.  The customer can simply use apple pay attached to a credit card because they don't see a cost associated with that.  The Merchant on the other hand, sees 3-5% bank fees, chargebacks, disputes, delays in getting funds from the bank.  DASH solves those problems for the Merchant.

 It does, but the driver can only drive if there is an engine, and in this case that's the consumer.

 A consumer will only consume if there is a necessity, or a problem solved.

 If the merchant can sell a soda cheap enough for the hassle of the consumer to go out and buy Dash, bingo. Unfortunately, that is impossible right now. The actual Point of Sale makes it cheaper, but down the chain he'll have to convert to FIAT to keep his business alive. Add volatility, and the merchant is now a gambler. That is why BitPay et al. exist.

 It's not viable for either at this moment. That, unfortunately, is the cold truth.

Why would anybody use email when we have a perfectly good postal system?

Why would anybody drive in an automobile when we have perfectly good horses?

Email is thousands of times faster, and free, and simple to use.

Cars are hundreds of times faster and easier to maintain.

Crypto-currency saves money on fees and takes control away from centralized banks and (currently) is complicated as hell to understand and use.

...there's really no comparison. The advantages aren't nearly as compelling.

Exactly. Dash has many benefits over fiat, but not when it comes to simplicity and (I believe the BIGGEST ISSUE IN CRYPTO) difficulty to obtain the currency. If there was a proposal that we could fund that would streamline the conversion of fiat to DASH I would LOVE to support it. That's the biggest problem in crypto. Dash has been able to be the first resolve many major issues with bitcoin, except this one.

Until it is easy for people to obtain Dash, it will not be used widely. Core team should focus on development, we as a community should try to find a solution to this problem.

Most people have smart phones (except me and mine) and they're using them at Walmart.  Walmart and others are integrating such systems because they know it's the future.  Did you see how easy it was to pay the vending machine?  Honestly, I think Evolution is for online purchases, I don't think it'll do much for face to face purchases which are already extremely easy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ghp276XSFQ

[spatula]

While I totally applaud the effort, no one will use these vending machines with Dash. They may use the blockchain and Apple Pay or NFC, but never Dash. Why? 'Cos you have to buy Dash to spend Dash.

The driver here is the merchant, not the customer.  The customer can simply use apple pay attached to a credit card because they don't see a cost associated with that.  The Merchant on the other hand, sees 3-5% bank fees, chargebacks, disputes, delays in getting funds from the bank.  DASH solves those problems for the Merchant.

 It does, but the driver can only drive if there is an engine, and in this case that's the consumer.

 A consumer will only consume if there is a necessity, or a problem solved.

 If the merchant can sell a soda cheap enough for the hassle of the consumer to go out and buy Dash, bingo. Unfortunately, that is impossible right now. The actual Point of Sale makes it cheaper, but down the chain he'll have to convert to FIAT to keep his business alive. Add volatility, and the merchant is now a gambler. That is why BitPay et al. exist.

 It's not viable for either at this moment. That, unfortunately, is the cold truth.

Why would anybody use email when we have a perfectly good postal system?

Why would anybody drive in an automobile when we have perfectly good horses?

Email is thousands of times faster, and free, and simple to use.

Cars are hundreds of times faster and easier to maintain.

Crypto-currency saves money on fees and takes control away from centralized banks and (currently) is complicated as hell to understand and use.

...there's really no comparison. The advantages aren't nearly as compelling.

Exactly. Dash has many benefits over fiat, but not when it comes to simplicity and (I believe the BIGGEST ISSUE IN CRYPTO) difficulty to obtain the currency. If there was a proposal that we could fund that would streamline the conversion of fiat to DASH I would LOVE to support it. That's the biggest problem in crypto. Dash has been able to be the first resolve many major issues with bitcoin, except this one.

Until it is easy for people to obtain Dash, it will not be used widely. Core team should focus on development, we as a community should try to find a solution to this problem.

Most people have smart phones (except me and mine) and they're using them at Walmart.  Walmart and others are integrating such systems because they know it's the future.  Did you see how easy it was to pay the vending machine?  Honestly, I think Evolution is for online purchases, I don't think it'll do much for face to face purchases which are already extremely easy.

How are customers going to obtain the DASH? The vending machine proof of concept included giving people dash via a paper wallet. Selling (converting) currency from fiat to DASH adds significant complexity. Converting crypto to fiat is easy. We NEED the other way around to be easy as well. That is the most glaring deficiency we have right now as a currency.

[GhostPlayer]

Most people have smart phones (except me and mine) and they're using them at Walmart.  Walmart and others are integrating such systems because they know it's the future.  Did you see how easy it was to pay the vending machine?  Honestly, I think Evolution is for online purchases, I don't think it'll do much for face to face purchases which are already extremely easy.

 My mom worked in a bank for 30 years and she simply cannot grasp cryptos.

 The vending machine is EASY if you have cryptos under your belt. Evo is absolutely all about face to face interaction as well, in fact, that is the whole plan behind it. No pub/priv keys to worry about, no long strings of alphanumeric gibberish. Simple to use, day to day experience, with an underlying cryptographic powerhouse fueling it.

 Why did Bitcoin explode?

 Because of Silk Road.

 It created a solution to a huge problem (despite illegal in nature) that drove thousands to climb the mountains of difficulty of attaining BTC to buy their goods. There was a serious motivation behind the learning curve. The hoops these guys had to jump through was worth the trouble to them.

 If you can sell a car for half a price with crypto's, done deal.

 But integrating Dash into PoS, or creating machines that talk blockchain is nothing out of this world. It hasn't been done because it's simply not profitable in the vending world. Heck, here at work Management complains the electricity our vending uses is possibly not worth the trouble of dealing with the company providing the re-stocking of the crappy goods it contains - and this is with plain old FIAT.

 Don't get me wrong, I love the idea. Not so much the vast amount of Dash needed for something any company can do in a week with a dedicated team of professionals when the time comes.

[GhostPlayer]

How are customers going to obtain the DASH? The vending machine proof of concept included giving people dash via a paper wallet. Selling (converting) currency from fiat to DASH adds significant complexity. Converting crypto to fiat is easy. We NEED the other way around to be easy as well. That is the most glaring deficiency we have right now as a currency.

 Exactly this!

 The problems is when FIAT is involved, government is involved.

 So I would suggest thinking about merchants, absolutely. Make it easy for people that manually produce things, or intellectually produce things, to attain Dash by selling goods and services that do not rely on a huge chain of transfer of capital.

 Time is money, but you don't buy time, you can only sell it. When you have to pay suppliers,  to be able to transform and sell your goods, at this moment in time you have to fall back on FIAT.

 Service and boutique/connoisseur grade markets is the way to go, IMHO

 This way, distribution actually happens to a larger scale into the populous. When numbers get critical, demand will force supply to offer Dash in the form of first and second necessity goods.

 That is the only reason I am voting no on this proposal.

[UdjinM6]

.....
How are customers going to obtain the DASH?...

that's what "lamassu-integration" proposal was for....

[noah tall]

...When numbers get critical, demand will force supply to offer Dash in the form of first and second necessity goods.

So why bother to develop anything at all.  Let's just wait till Joe Consumer decides that he wants a DASH gateway and voila, it magically appears.

[toknormal]

I think these people should offer Dash as a payment option to their customers.

A "soda machine" proof of concept with their embedded eCommerce engine would be nice.

EDIT: bitpay has got one for bitcoin: https://github.com/bitpay/ecwid-plugin

[BrainShutdown]

I think these people should offer Dash as a payment option to their customers.

A "soda machine" proof of concept with their embedded eCommerce engine would be nice.

And who will develop the Dash merchant integration with their embedded eCommerce engine? Is it available already?

[toknormal]

And who will develop the Dash merchant integration with their embedded eCommerce engine? Is it available already?

Whoever the DGBB election decides to hire and fund. All that needs to be done is for the bitpay plugin to be adapted.

[toknormal]

Also, companies like this could radically revise their business models to be based around pay as you go principles and micropayments instead of the lumbering old per-user per-month subscription type.

If a "soda-machine" micropayment proof of concept could be built that migrates crypto balances from one address to another everytime a Dashboard is viewed then they could offer a radical new access plan to their customers. No merchant accounts needed. Anonymous. Ultra-low barrier to entry etc.

[toknormal]

Lets say you're a person that runs every day.

You've got one of those heart monitor fan-dango things in your shoe or watch or something. At the end of your day it uploads the data to a metrics service which keeps you posted about your performance. You only pay when you view your online metrics and it knows it's you because of some digital signing sh*t related to the public key from where your funds come from.

http O-Auth could be used to grant some level of trust to the service to allow them to take small payments from your blockchain address.

No signups needed, zillions of customers want it, no merchants, anonymous etc...

(Here's a site that's already doing it: https://developer.underarmour.com/docs/v71_workouts_and_24_7_tracking  )

[Lebubar]

.....
How are customers going to obtain the DASH?...

that's what "lamassu-integration" proposal was for....

True, and I think we have to work all the different aspect of adoption  in parallel.
What if everybody have their Dash (easy to buy fiat->Dash) and then, but but, we forgot the PoS... Ok go go.

IMHO I think we can work on the different part of the egg and chicken problem, together in parallel, while someone try to hatch the egg, the others try to  feed the chicken.

[noobtrader]

.....
How are customers going to obtain the DASH?...

that's what "lamassu-integration" proposal was for....

or we can actually make one

  http://hackaday.com/2013/09/13/a-bitcoin-vending-machine/

its interesting project too