[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[someredguy]

The chairs say everything's ok.

Can you provide a link/info? This looks to be people from the Federal Reserve, which is a privately held corporation by unknown persons that have a monopoly on creating the money supply in the United States.

[Sub-Ether]

The chairs say everything's ok.

Can you provide a link/info? This looks to be people from the Federal Reserve, which is a privately held corporation by unknown persons that have a monopoly on creating the money supply in the United States.

Toknormal was being sarcastic, by 'ok' the Chairs mean they are losing control and its getting close to SHTF time. The only solution is cash confiscation and higher negative interest rates with options such as crypto, reality is starting to break through their deluded over educated idealistic cozy little pseudo econo-realities.

What the Chairs have a problem dealing with is low oil prices, all the ravaged and ransacked countries in the middle east and the oil thus sold is making no profit, in fact the supreme irony is it costs more to get it from the ground.

Wars are expensive and always plunge countries in debt, check Europe and America for national debt, I heard Iraq alone cost over 1 trillion dollars. These wars have to go on, there is no turning back, they know that more tax must be collected through fake austerity to pay the war machine but how can they get more out of the sheeple people?

[DonQuijote]

Are you going to go listen about Dash?
fernando does today in Madrid, Spain

[fernando]

Are you going to go listen about Dash?
fernando does today in Madrid, Spain

Thanks DonQuijote!

There are no more seats available, but the event will be broadcast live here:
https://plus.google.com/events/cv5ianc39tj5mm27aaugmmbdrtk

It will start at 5.30pm CET.

It is on overview on Dash at a Bitcoin Meetup, so probably we won't go really deep:
-Privacy
-InstantX
-Governance
-Future relase of Evolution

[ddink7]

Check this out:

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/r3s-tim-swanson-a-public-blockchain-has-settlement-risks/

Does Dash's 2-tier system solve this potential problem by forbidding miners to reorg the blockchain? Or at the least, will Evo solve it?

[Timeless170]

Check this out:

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/r3s-tim-swanson-a-public-blockchain-has-settlement-risks/

Does Dash's 2-tier system solve this potential problem by forbidding miners to reorg the blockchain? Or at the least, will Evo solve it?

No they are saying they don't need a decentralized public blockchain because they can't control it which is well the whole point of it.

[HinnomTX]

Check this out:

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/r3s-tim-swanson-a-public-blockchain-has-settlement-risks/

Does Dash's 2-tier system solve this potential problem by forbidding miners to reorg the blockchain? Or at the least, will Evo solve it?

No they are saying they don't need a decentralized public blockchain because they can't control it which is well the whole point of it.

They're giving funny excuses like:

Hence, proof-of-work-based blockchains like bitcoin offer no way to predict their future security level, or settlement, since it is directly proportional to the token’s future value, which is not knowable.

which is an interesting point about bitcoin, but is also laughable because one can say the same of the US dollar. It's a token whose future value is not knowable. We'd like to believe it's a stable store of value, but the Federal Reserve and US Treasury are the counterfeiters of the global reserve currency. They can devalue at any time.

[ddink7]

Check this out:

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/r3s-tim-swanson-a-public-blockchain-has-settlement-risks/

Does Dash's 2-tier system solve this potential problem by forbidding miners to reorg the blockchain? Or at the least, will Evo solve it?

No they are saying they don't need a decentralized public blockchain because they can't control it which is well the whole point of it.

They're giving funny excuses like:

Hence, proof-of-work-based blockchains like bitcoin offer no way to predict their future security level, or settlement, since it is directly proportional to the token’s future value, which is not knowable.

which is an interesting point about bitcoin, but is also laughable because one can say the same of the US dollar. It's a token whose future value is not knowable. We'd like to believe it's a stable store of value, but the Federal Reserve and US Treasury are the counterfeiters of the global reserve currency. They can devalue at any time.

I actually think he has a semi-valid point here. Let's take the Bitcoin blockchain.

He's saying that right now, using Bitcoin's blockchain to settle would probably be fine. There's enough mining power to keep the network secure against double-spends/reorgs. Within a reasonable amount of time (for instance, the standard six blocks), a transaction could be considered settled.

What he's concerned about is future-proofing. We can say that today, Bitcoin is fine. But what if, in five years, Bitcoin's price has plummeted back down to $4.25? With an extremely low price, the network couldn't sustain its present hashrate, since hashrate is ultimately dependent on the reward (in fiat terms, since that's how electricity bills are paid). If the reward drops dramatically (in fiat terms) because the value of the token (in our example, Bitcoin) has dropped, then the blockchain is no longer nearly as secure.

Bitcoin, in fact, is an excellent example. Right now, Bitcoin's hashrate is 1,220,000 GH/s. What if the price of Bitcoin drops from $425.00 to $4.25? Presumably the hashrate would decline about 100 fold, down to 12,200 GH/s. The thing about a scenario like this, is that people are unlikely to simply throw their ASICs in the trash. Most people will probably turn them off and keep them in storage somewhere, just in case.

Now let's say that Chase bank uses the Bitcoin blockchain to settle a $100,000,000 transaction. Somebody who's sitting on the sidelines could suddenly turn all their miners back on and use their hashpower to orchestrate a blockchain reorg which would effectively reverse Chase's massive transaction.

So he's right--the security of a blockchain depends on the value of the token. My question is whether Dash is different due to its masternode network? Particularly in Evo, where all transactions will (presumably) be IX?

[ddink7]

Something just occurred to me: what if Bitcoin hits the trifecta?

What if early this summer:

a) SegWit is completed as "expected." Block capacity is slightly increased, but the biggest thing is that SegWit will fix the tx malleability problem.

b) Lightning Network is completed as "expected." Supposedly LN is finished and ready to go, but needs SegWit to go live to fix malleability first.

c) Halving that occurs in July drives enormous media hype. Bitcoin is suddenly back in every major mainstream publication and dominates a big chunk of the financial news cycle. Also, only 1800 BTC produced per day rather than 3600 would in itself modestly increase the price, because less supply has to be bought up to simply hold the price where it is.

Now I don't know how likely any of this is to happen...that's why I put "expected" in quotes above. We all know that with software, anything could happen, and deadlines get missed all the time. Ethereum was delayed eight months past its initial "expected" launch date.

However, with that in mind, I would say that Blockstream is a very well-funded company, likely staffed with some very intelligent people. If they are smart enough to orchestrate SegWit and LN releases shortly before the halving, the reward for their company could be huge.

*IF* all these things happen, it seems like Bitcoin could easily exceed its ATH.

[ddink7]

Excellent article:

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/04/cashless-society/477411/

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

Dash: The Future Internet Of Money?

https://www.rebelmouse.com/dashnation/the-internet-1715527827.html

#DashNation

[eduffield]

I was the author of (most of) that article, and I'm sure Evan won't mind me sharing his full comments, from which I extracted the relevant quotes:

Me: "Could I get a quote from you for the article, something about how the dev team views the development of ASICs, etc.? If it is your point of view that ASICs, subject to the decentralization that you are working on, are a good thing for Dash, it would be a great contrast to Charlie Lee's comment two years ago that 'Well, we could change our algo but it'd be really hard to do, so why bother?'"

Evan: "When creating Dash originally, we wanted to create an atmosphere of innovation in the mining arena over the course of many years. This includes the first CPU miners, then GPU miners, FPGAs then even ASICs. We believe X11 did exactly what it had intended to do in this respect. As far as our opinion of ASICs overall, we believe there is no better possible technology for our network to be secured by. One thing that is not well understood in the space is the masternode network's quorum system relies heavily on the entropy generated from proof-of-work, this makes them an ideal source of security. The only concern with ASICs is due to the centralization risk that has occurred in Bitcoin and Litecoin.

Me: "There have been rumors that the dev team has an idea to combat the centralization risk you speak of. Do you care to elaborate?"

Evan: "The centralization risk comes from a problem with the alignment of incentives. These issues boil down to just a few problems in proof-of-work. Issues such as privately mining with bleeding-edge hardware before it's publicly accessible, mining at extremely low/no electrical cost and utilizing free labor. When combined these three issues become a powerful efficiency margin between you and your competitors, creating only a few places in the world that can compete on an even playing field. We have a plan to re-align these incentives under a new proof-of-work model which incorporates X11 and ASICs."

So Evan has a plan that will eliminate the centralization risk while retaining the network security that ASICs provide. Before anybody asks, I have no idea what he's planning.

OK, so when you think of these issues:
1.  privately mining with bleeding-edge hardware before it's publicly accessible
2.  mining at extremely low/no electrical cost and utilizing free labor.

And the fact that we know this is the issue he has primarily been working on since coming back from the Satoshi Roundtable (a trip that inspired whatever it is he is doing) and the fact he said he's been finishing up ~ 5000 lines of code and is compiling... and he says he found a "neat way" to create a decentralized (business?) incubator... leads me to think that the budgeting system may incentivize businesses in the mining field and ASIC manufacturing field?  But the following quote:

"When combined these three issues become a powerful efficiency margin between you and your competitors, creating only a few places in the world that can compete on an even playing field. We have a plan to re-align these incentives under a new proof-of-work model which incorporates X11 and ASICs."

leaves it so up in the air, I still can't see the whole picture.

Dagnabbit, what in the world could this solution be?

DASH powered Kick-starter.

DASH funds held in escrow for start-up projects and then released by the blockchain on meeting fund raising milestones..  

If you help in funding a project, you also get voting rights that go towards governance for decision making, change in project scope, allocation of funds and much, much more(tm)

would work for crowd and private initiatives. e.g. might be just one angel investor that would hold all voting rights for governance or a crowd funded start-up with 50k people participating.

All powered by DASH
  
my two bobs  

You're on the right track! Imagine instead of just proposals and contracts, we also have category, group, user, company, project, project-report and project-milestone. Then the governance system (what was previously the budget system) will explicitly have a system for tracking what's happening in our economy that we're funding. Imagine the system knows when reports are due, if companies are behind on their milestones...etc. It's the autonomous part of our decentralized autonomous organization. Next we fund other DAOs into existence. I think we'll be able to manage thousands.

This whole structure I'm building is done using a self-referencing tree, so we'll have companies, that can own companies, that have people working for them. These are also the same users for evo, parts of this tree can be flagged to be stored in DashDrive instead of our governance mempool.

This is a huge upgrade by the way. If I'm going to touch the budget system, I'm going to make it as perfect as possible before we continue on. This is a vastly important part of our system.

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

Dash: The Future Internet Of Money?

https://www.rebelmouse.com/dashnation/the-internet-1715527827.html

#DashNation

Join the conversation about the IoM on the Altcoin Discussion. Let's keep that thread bumped!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1430587

[BrainShutdown]

Dash: The Future Internet Of Money?

https://www.rebelmouse.com/dashnation/the-internet-1715527827.html

#DashNation

Join the conversation about the IoM on the Altcoin Discussion. Let's keep that thread bumped!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1430587

Bored people do crazy things, right Tao?  
It's going to be a troll fest...

[TanteStefana2]

Check this out:

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/r3s-tim-swanson-a-public-blockchain-has-settlement-risks/

Does Dash's 2-tier system solve this potential problem by forbidding miners to reorg the blockchain? Or at the least, will Evo solve it?

No they are saying they don't need a decentralized public blockchain because they can't control it which is well the whole point of it.

They're giving funny excuses like:

Hence, proof-of-work-based blockchains like bitcoin offer no way to predict their future security level, or settlement, since it is directly proportional to the token’s future value, which is not knowable.

which is an interesting point about bitcoin, but is also laughable because one can say the same of the US dollar. It's a token whose future value is not knowable. We'd like to believe it's a stable store of value, but the Federal Reserve and US Treasury are the counterfeiters of the global reserve currency. They can devalue at any time.

I actually think he has a semi-valid point here. Let's take the Bitcoin blockchain.

He's saying that right now, using Bitcoin's blockchain to settle would probably be fine. There's enough mining power to keep the network secure against double-spends/reorgs. Within a reasonable amount of time (for instance, the standard six blocks), a transaction could be considered settled.

What he's concerned about is future-proofing. We can say that today, Bitcoin is fine. But what if, in five years, Bitcoin's price has plummeted back down to $4.25? With an extremely low price, the network couldn't sustain its present hashrate, since hashrate is ultimately dependent on the reward (in fiat terms, since that's how electricity bills are paid). If the reward drops dramatically (in fiat terms) because the value of the token (in our example, Bitcoin) has dropped, then the blockchain is no longer nearly as secure.

Bitcoin, in fact, is an excellent example. Right now, Bitcoin's hashrate is 1,220,000 GH/s. What if the price of Bitcoin drops from $425.00 to $4.25? Presumably the hashrate would decline about 100 fold, down to 12,200 GH/s. The thing about a scenario like this, is that people are unlikely to simply throw their ASICs in the trash. Most people will probably turn them off and keep them in storage somewhere, just in case.

Now let's say that Chase bank uses the Bitcoin blockchain to settle a $100,000,000 transaction. Somebody who's sitting on the sidelines could suddenly turn all their miners back on and use their hashpower to orchestrate a blockchain reorg which would effectively reverse Chase's massive transaction.

So he's right--the security of a blockchain depends on the value of the token. My question is whether Dash is different due to its masternode network? Particularly in Evo, where all transactions will (presumably) be IX?

Possibly.  I think you're right here, that in fact the MN network with POW and quorums settling/locking transactions makes Dash far safer than POW alone.

[TanteStefana2]

Something just occurred to me: what if Bitcoin hits the trifecta?

What if early this summer:

a) SegWit is completed as "expected." Block capacity is slightly increased, but the biggest thing is that SegWit will fix the tx malleability problem.

b) Lightning Network is completed as "expected." Supposedly LN is finished and ready to go, but needs SegWit to go live to fix malleability first.

c) Halving that occurs in July drives enormous media hype. Bitcoin is suddenly back in every major mainstream publication and dominates a big chunk of the financial news cycle. Also, only 1800 BTC produced per day rather than 3600 would in itself modestly increase the price, because less supply has to be bought up to simply hold the price where it is.

Now I don't know how likely any of this is to happen...that's why I put "expected" in quotes above. We all know that with software, anything could happen, and deadlines get missed all the time. Ethereum was delayed eight months past its initial "expected" launch date.

However, with that in mind, I would say that Blockstream is a very well-funded company, likely staffed with some very intelligent people. If they are smart enough to orchestrate SegWit and LN releases shortly before the halving, the reward for their company could be huge.

*IF* all these things happen, it seems like Bitcoin could easily exceed its ATH.

Glad we have people like you to inform people like me, LOL.  Sounds like this could happen indeed.  What that would mean for Dash, though, I wonder.  It could go either way?

[TanteStefana2]

Are you going to go listen about Dash?
fernando does today in Madrid, Spain

Thanks DonQuijote!

There are no more seats available, but the event will be broadcast live here:
https://plus.google.com/events/cv5ianc39tj5mm27aaugmmbdrtk

It will start at 5.30pm CET.

It is on overview on Dash at a Bitcoin Meetup, so probably we won't go really deep:
-Privacy
-InstantX
-Governance
-Future relase of Evolution

In Spanish Language and sound is horrible :-(
- oh well....
I'm sure it will be / was a good presentation :-P

Yes, it's too bad, but I have to wait for a translation anyway, LOL.  Fernando does look great though   And I think he is clear enough to understand

[ddink7]

Something just occurred to me: what if Bitcoin hits the trifecta?

What if early this summer:

a) SegWit is completed as "expected." Block capacity is slightly increased, but the biggest thing is that SegWit will fix the tx malleability problem.

b) Lightning Network is completed as "expected." Supposedly LN is finished and ready to go, but needs SegWit to go live to fix malleability first.

c) Halving that occurs in July drives enormous media hype. Bitcoin is suddenly back in every major mainstream publication and dominates a big chunk of the financial news cycle. Also, only 1800 BTC produced per day rather than 3600 would in itself modestly increase the price, because less supply has to be bought up to simply hold the price where it is.

Now I don't know how likely any of this is to happen...that's why I put "expected" in quotes above. We all know that with software, anything could happen, and deadlines get missed all the time. Ethereum was delayed eight months past its initial "expected" launch date.

However, with that in mind, I would say that Blockstream is a very well-funded company, likely staffed with some very intelligent people. If they are smart enough to orchestrate SegWit and LN releases shortly before the halving, the reward for their company could be huge.

*IF* all these things happen, it seems like Bitcoin could easily exceed its ATH.

Glad we have people like you to inform people like me, LOL.  Sounds like this could happen indeed.  What that would mean for Dash, though, I wonder.  It could go either way?

LOL it's just a brainstorm...may well not happen!

The prevailing theory is that higher Bitcoin price is bad for alts in the short term but good in the intermediate or long term. Theoretically everybody flees altcoins to ride the Bitcoin wave, then once Bitcoin tops out, people diversify back into alts. They now have more money, so they buy more alts, and the price goes up.

In Bitcoin's last run from 225 to 500+, Dash's price in BTC cratered from 0.01 to 0.005, but the fiat value stayed relatively constant, since each BTC was worth about twice as much. Since then, Dash has nearly tripled in fiat value and has tripled in BTC value.

[TanteStefana2]

LOL it's just a brainstorm...may well not happen!

The prevailing theory is that higher Bitcoin price is bad for alts in the short term but good in the intermediate or long term. Theoretically everybody flees altcoins to ride the Bitcoin wave, then once Bitcoin tops out, people diversify back into alts. They now have more money, so they buy more alts, and the price goes up.

In Bitcoin's last run from 225 to 500+, Dash's price in BTC cratered from 0.01 to 0.005, but the fiat value stayed relatively constant, since each BTC was worth about twice as much. Since then, Dash has nearly tripled in fiat value and has tripled in BTC value.

I know I'm just a cheerleader, but I won't be happy until it's Dash that is the mover and shaker in this space.  Dash is far superior, even if they get the lightening network to work, etc... their lack of self governance/budgeting and lack of incentivized nodes will centralize their system more and more.  The institutions will ultimately have total control over Bitcoin.

That's not what people like myself want.  So we'll ultimately see how many people think like us and how many sheeple want a trusted system.  Don't underestimate the power of education   Especially in the 3rd world where people are far more weary of the "establishment".

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

Dash: The Future Internet Of Money?

https://www.rebelmouse.com/dashnation/the-internet-1715527827.html

#DashNation

Join the conversation about the IoM on the Altcoin Discussion. Let's keep that thread bumped!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1430587

Bored people do crazy things, right Tão? 
It's going to be a troll fest...

I want a troll fest. Bring them on. I'll just keep the message positive, and then that article will continue to be bumped, with a link to my Dash Nation website which is full of useful links to learn about Dash. Or, they could ignore me, and then the point will be taken as fact. A win/win.