[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[janos666]

BTW, nice price action going. A single 100 BTC buy wall on Cryptsy. Those are rarely 'real' so manipulation is abound.

110 BTC already. What do you mean by 'Those are rarely real'?

You usually place an order like this when you want to sell a lot of coins (which you acquired earlier at a significantly lower price in relatively small chunks over a relatively long time) and buy only as little as possible (when you accidentally get hit -> it's more like a gamble than an investment).

When you really want to buy 100 BTC worth of coins then you usually set up a bot which buys a lot of small chunks when the price is in your comfort zone (or you might do it manually if you have the time and patiance and you don't trust in bots).

[thelonecrouton]

BTW, nice price action going. A single 100 BTC buy wall on Cryptsy. Those are rarely 'real' so manipulation is abound.

110 BTC already. What do you mean by 'Those are rarely real'?

You usually place an order like this when you want to sell a lot of coins (which you acquired earlier at a significantly lower price in relatively small chunks over a relatively long time) and buy only as little as possible when you accidentally get hit.

When you really want to buy 100 BTC worth of coins then you usually set up a bot which buys a lot of small chunks when the price is in your comfort zone (or you might do it manually if you have the time and patiance and you don't trust in bots).

Although I get this one, a lot of these market manipulation strategies frankly baffle me, but I just have to reassure myself that this is simply because I am sane.  

[innergy]

On the other hand, what if the sender sends the exact amount to the masternode, masternode sends to the receiver more, and the receiver sends the change to the masternode?

[daddeo]

On the other hand, what if the sender sends the exact amount to the masternode, masternode sends to the receiver more, and the receiver sends the change to the masternode?

Hmmmm. Interesting. Then the Masternode can denominate the change further from there. Interesting.

[drkman]

Is there to be a transaction fee associated with using DarkSend? If so, what if that fee was taken from one of the denominated change return addresses? This way the change never adds up exactly to the coins sent from A to B.

Yes. And if you always sent fractions of Dark such as sending 102.3491 to the pool to send 100 Dark wouldn't that also obfuscate it even more since someone wouldn't be able to subtract the fee amount and make guesses?

[Simcom]

Is there to be a transaction fee associated with using DarkSend? If so, what if that fee was taken from one of the denominated change return addresses? This way the change never adds up exactly to the coins sent from A to B.

Yes. And if you always sent fractions of Dark such as sending 102.3491 to the pool to send 100 Dark wouldn't that also obfuscate it even more since someone wouldn't be able to subtract the fee amount and make guesses?

I think what is going to happen is: if you want to send 10 coins to somone, and have an address with 10.501241, 10.501241 will go into the pool, the masternode keeps 0.001241, 10 go to recieve address and 0.5 are returned to sender via denominated change addresses. the 0.001241 would be kept as a small nominal fee for the transaction.

[patrolman]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=579976.msg6335710#msg6335710

best bubble captions will be edited in

Come June 1st we will be raising the tax rate on digital currencies to a maximum of 75%, applied retroactively, of course. As a result, an anonymous, "Darkcoin" seems to be gaining market share and the consensus seems to be that each "coin" will be worth more than $9 by the end of May. Help your fellow Americans by buying as soon as possible so we can eventually tax your profits and spread the wealth to those folks struggling at the moment in the pharmaceutical, finance, defence and security industries and perhaps to even create some more jobs in the public sector. If you buy now, you'll only pay about $1.60!

edit: added a couple more struggling industries

[janos666]

Although I get this one, a lot of these market manipulation strategies frankly baffle me, but I just have to reassure myself that this is simply because I am sane.  

+1

I guess you mean those happenings when you can't see any big orders on the tables but some people seem to exchange a lot of coins at progressively higher/lower prices until the price doubles/halves during a few minutes or hours and the volume shoots up into crazy heights?

I hate to participate in those (unless I am accidentally there and I can confidently recognize it close to it's start). Too much stress and too much to loose if you happen to buy in at the peak level (when you can tell it was the peak then it's usually log gone, so you got burned already big time...).

[Macno]

I guess you mean those happenings when you can't see any big orders on the tables but some people seem to exchange a lot of coins at progressively higher/lower prices until the price doubles/halves during a few minutes or hours and the volume shoots up into crazy heights?

Exactly. Do you have some explanations?

[thelonecrouton]

I guess you mean those happenings when you can't see any big orders on the tables but some people seem to exchange a lot of coins at progressively higher/lower prices until the price doubles/halves during a few minutes or hours and the volume shoots up into crazy heights?

Exactly. Do you have some explanations?

I suspect some API keys may be more equal than others, for a start.

[coins101]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=579976.msg6335710#msg6335710

best bubble captions will be edited in

Come June 1st we will be raising the tax rate on digital currencies to a maximum of 75%, applied retroactively, of course. As a result, an anonymous, "Darkcoin" seems to be gaining market share and the consensus seems to be that each "coin" will be worth more than $9 by the end of May. Help your fellow Americans by buying as soon as possible so we can eventually tax your profits and spread the wealth to those folks struggling at the moment in the pharmaceutical, finance, defence and security industries and perhaps to even create some more jobs in the public sector. If you buy now, you'll only pay about $1.60!

edit: added a couple more struggling industries

oops 

The bubble wasn't big enough for all that......made it shorter:

[janos666]

I guess you mean those happenings when you can't see any big orders on the tables but some people seem to exchange a lot of coins at progressively higher/lower prices until the price doubles/halves during a few minutes or hours and the volume shoots up into crazy heights?

Exactly. Do you have some explanations?

1: Imagine you are superman (or at least a StarCraft veteran ) and you can click with almost light speed. -> This is your trading software (aka a "bot")
Since it interacts with the exchange API, it's even faster than your web browser (no speed penalty from rendering the same graphics after every clicks).

2: You have a lot of BTC (may be you stole it earlier or you are "genuinely rich", so you don't even care if you win or loose, you are ready to gamble for fun and probable profit).

3: You might secured a deal with the exchange staff to get some small advantages like high priority server access and/or slightly lower fees (may be a prepaid fix rate). [May be you are part of that exchange staff.]


So, you are probably faster than anyone (but certainly faster than many others), you can possibly sell as many coins to yourself as you wish without a worry (a nice trick, even easier to abuse if you combine it with low fees) and you can eat up as many coins as you must.

You make others buy for more and more as they try to join to your game by constantly starving them (you eat up every sell orders and also leave some buy orders there, so they offer even more and more).
When the buy table is filled enough, you execute a big sale (using coins you ate up during the pump at lower price levels and possibly earlier in small chunks when it was "normally cheap").

[Joshuar]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=579976.msg6335710#msg6335710

best bubble captions will be edited in

Come June 1st we will be raising the tax rate on digital currencies to a maximum of 75%, applied retroactively, of course. As a result, an anonymous, "Darkcoin" seems to be gaining market share and the consensus seems to be that each "coin" will be worth more than $9 by the end of May. Help your fellow Americans by buying as soon as possible so we can eventually tax your profits and spread the wealth to those folks struggling at the moment in the pharmaceutical, finance, defence and security industries and perhaps to even create some more jobs in the public sector. If you buy now, you'll only pay about $1.60!

edit: added a couple more struggling industries

oops  

The bubble wasn't big enough for all that......made it shorter:

I vote for $9+(haven't voted yet), Darkcoin is the only revolutionary coin besides Bitcoin itself out there...

[Macno]

1: Imagine you are superman (or at least a StarCraft veteran ) and you can click with almost light speed. -> This is your trading software (aka a "bot")
Since it interacts with the exchange API, it's even faster than your web browser (no speed penalty from rendering the same graphics after every clicks).

2: You have a lot of BTC (may be you stole it earlier or you are "genuinely rich", so you don't even care if you win or loose, you are ready to gamble for fun and probable profit).

3: You might secured a deal with the exchange staff to get some small advantages like high priority server access and/or slightly lower fees (may be a prepaid fix rate). [May be you are part of that exchange staff.]


So, you are probably faster than anyone (but certainly faster than many others), you can possibly sell as many coins to yourself as you wish without a worry (a nice trick, even easier to abuse if you combine it with low fees) and you can eat up as many coins as you must before others can buy instead of you (with some continued guidance).
You make others buy for more and more as they try to join to your game and you slowly feed them. When the buy table is filled enough, you execute a big sale.

So you are saying some kind of  HFT techniques are used at crypto exchanges with small coins like DRK? Do you suspect it or do you know it?

[janos666]

1: Imagine you are superman (or at least a StarCraft veteran ) and you can click with almost light speed. -> This is your trading software (aka a "bot")
Since it interacts with the exchange API, it's even faster than your web browser (no speed penalty from rendering the same graphics after every clicks).

2: You have a lot of BTC (may be you stole it earlier or you are "genuinely rich", so you don't even care if you win or loose, you are ready to gamble for fun and probable profit).

3: You might secured a deal with the exchange staff to get some small advantages like high priority server access and/or slightly lower fees (may be a prepaid fix rate). [May be you are part of that exchange staff.]


So, you are probably faster than anyone (but certainly faster than many others), you can possibly sell as many coins to yourself as you wish without a worry (a nice trick, even easier to abuse if you combine it with low fees) and you can eat up as many coins as you must before others can buy instead of you (with some continued guidance).
You make others buy for more and more as they try to join to your game and you slowly feed them. When the buy table is filled enough, you execute a big sale.

So you are saying some kind of  HFT techniques are used at crypto exchanges with small coins like DRK? Do you suspect it or do you know it?

I don't think it's the classic HFT as we know it because crypto exchanges are usually very slow and the markets are very small.
You can practically do "high frequency" (relatively speaking) trading on Cryptsy manually when it's slow enough on peak hours (but it's also unstable sometimes which kills this whole idea).

The emphasis is not on the milliseconds, but on using any kind of bot instead of manual human input.

I think the main part of this game is the fact that how many people have shitload of crypto and any kind of trading experience when compared to other crypto exchange users (like miner-traders, newcomers, etc).
It's like reinventing the stock market from scratch by filling an empty space with children to boot.

I don't have "evidence" though. It's just how I interpret what I see.
I personally don't do it. I don't have the "shitload of BTC" to start with. Nor the stock market experience for that matter, just learned the basics and observed crypto markets for some time.

[patrolman]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=579976.msg6335710#msg6335710

best bubble captions will be edited in

Come June 1st we will be raising the tax rate on digital currencies to a maximum of 75%, applied retroactively, of course. As a result, an anonymous, "Darkcoin" seems to be gaining market share and the consensus seems to be that each "coin" will be worth more than $9 by the end of May. Help your fellow Americans by buying as soon as possible so we can eventually tax your profits and spread the wealth to those folks struggling at the moment in the pharmaceutical, finance, defence and security industries and perhaps to even create some more jobs in the public sector. If you buy now, you'll only pay about $1.60!

edit: added a couple more struggling industries

oops 

The bubble wasn't big enough for all that......made it shorter:

Yeah, I got a bit carried away.

How about "I recently took part in a "cyber dialogue" in which the consensus was that Darkcoin would be $9+ by the end of May".

[thelonecrouton]

It's like reinventing the stock market from scratch by filling an empty space with children.

Well put! Terminators vs toddlers...

Wish Mintpal would open up their API, but then as I said you don't know what advantages others have who've greased a few palms.

[TanteStefana]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=579976.msg6335710#msg6335710

best bubble captions will be edited in

"and as the leader of the FREE world, it is up to us to put an end to these illegal crypto currencies!"

On a side note, I was wondering how my wallet could be running but I couldn't find it in my task bar... LOL, new logo!

[janos666]

It's like reinventing the stock market from scratch by filling an empty space with children.

Well put! Terminators vs toddlers...

Wish Mintpal would open up their API, but then as I said you don't know what advantages others have who've greased a few palms.

I seriously played with the idea to build a new crypto exchange solely because nobody can access your server faster than your bot which runs on the same server (and reinvent the HFT wheel).
I probably would have done that if I had arrived at least one year earlier.

[Macno]

I don't think it's the classic HFT as we know it because crypto exchanges are usually very slow and the markets are very small.
You can practically do "high frequency" (relatively speaking) trading on Cryptsy manually when it's slow enough on peak hours (but it's also unstable sometimes which kills this idea).

The emphasis is not on the milliseconds, but on using any kind of bot instead of manual human input.

I think the main part of this game is the fact that how many people have shitload of crypto and any kind of trading experience when compared to other crypto exchange users (like miner-traders, newcomers, etc).
It's like reinventing the stock market from scratch by filling an empty space with children to boot.

I don't have "evidence" though. It's just how I interpret what I see.
I personally don't do it. I don't have the "shitload of BTC" to start with. Nor the stock market experience for that matter, just learned the basics in school.

Nice theory, thanks! As you say, there are probably lot of people without any trading experience around and I keep asking myself if some of those strange buying/selling patterns are part of something I don`t yet understand (and maybe your explanation is good) or simply clumsy. Today it looked to me as if some guy with some (!! not even that many after all) BTC just read about the wired.com article, concluded there could be a price rise tomorrow and started buying on mintpal and cryptsy in a pretty clumsy way (i.e. too quickly and impatiently). Others then jumped on the bandwagon and then people talk about "whales" or "pumps". But I`m not sure either on how to interpret those strange parabolic rises/drops.