[NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread

[yidian]

A NEM collaborative idea

Friends, I think we have people from all over the world in this project. We have people from Germany, US , China, Japan, South Africa, Russia, Holland,India just to name a few. I myself is from Bhutan.

How about we create a website where NEM stakeholders from different countries put up stamps and coins for sale in exchange for NEM. We can then donate a percentage of any profit to a charity.

Stamps and coins are not expensive and always in supply, any stakeholder can take part with minimum financial commitment. I know its an idea with limited scope, but it could serve as a catalyst for further growth and publicity for NEM.

I am not a webdisigner but I would be willing to contribute in cash or coin to anyone who takes this initiative.

I am not a webdisigner as well, but I think it is a good idea.

[chanc3r]

Question on POI

I've search/scanned the thread for POI comments, I have not found an answer to this so apologies if this has been answered.

I tend to use crypto from the same account but not from the same device, so I might have a forging node at home but  transact by signing transactions on a non-forging client on my mobile.

The way I read it, POI is linked to the node activity not account activity.

So I want to contribute as a good community member transact in NEM and run a node but don't want to have to transact from that specific node just to ensure that I benefit from forging on that node through increased POI.

My reading of it also means that commercial nodes and exchanges will gain a lot of POI and could result in NEM looking like Ripple with busineses running the infrastructure and gaining most from that in terms of the transaction fees for the purchase/exchange AND then getting the lions share of the forging benefit.

So with POI can I still effectively participate with my stake in forging somehow?

[patmast3r]

Question on POI

I've search/scanned the thread for POI comments, I have not found an answer to this so apologies if this has been answered.

I tend to use crypto from the same account but not from the same device, so I might have a forging node at home but  transact by signing transactions on a non-forging client on my mobile.

The way I read it, POI is linked to the node activity not account activity.

So I want to contribute as a good community member transact in NEM and run a node but don't want to have to transact from that specific node just to ensure that I benefit from forging on that node through increased POI.

My reading of it also means that commercial nodes and exchanges will gain a lot of POI and could result in NEM looking like Ripple with busineses running the infrastructure and gaining most from that in terms of the transaction fees for the purchase/exchange AND then getting the lions share of the forging benefit.

So with POI can I still effectively participate with my stake in forging somehow?

This is quite a specific question and would best be answered by a dev but here's how I think it works.
It's based on "account" activity. If you run a server node under your "account"  but make some transactions with a client node (no matter which device) you should still gain importance for both the transactions and for running a server node.
Yes Exchange nodes would probably have a lot of forging power but that's nothing new and is also fair since they are very important to the network.

On a side note: I think you have a wrong impression of Ripple (as do many other people). Everyone can run servers and validators in the Ripple network. The fact that from the beginngin only Ripple Labs was running servers and validators stemms merely from the fact that someone has to start. Someone ran the first bitcoin client and started the network by doing so. At that time the bitcoin network was centralized.
Also the fees in ripple are not delivered to anyone. They are destroyed meaning those ripples seize to excist. Noone get's them.

[sunnyW78]

Question on POI

I've search/scanned the thread for POI comments, I have not found an answer to this so apologies if this has been answered.

I tend to use crypto from the same account but not from the same device, so I might have a forging node at home but  transact by signing transactions on a non-forging client on my mobile.

The way I read it, POI is linked to the node activity not account activity.

So I want to contribute as a good community member transact in NEM and run a node but don't want to have to transact from that specific node just to ensure that I benefit from forging on that node through increased POI.

My reading of it also means that commercial nodes and exchanges will gain a lot of POI and could result in NEM looking like Ripple with busineses running the infrastructure and gaining most from that in terms of the transaction fees for the purchase/exchange AND then getting the lions share of the forging benefit.

So with POI can I still effectively participate with my stake in forging somehow?

Good question. Hope someone to answer.

[chanc3r]

Question on POI

This is quite a specific question and would best be answered by a dev but here's how I think it works.
It's based on "account" activity. If you run a server node under your "account"  but make some transactions with a client node (no matter which device) you should still gain importance for both the transactions and for running a server node.
Yes Exchange nodes would probably have a lot of forging power but that's nothing new and is also fair since they are very important to the network.

On a side note: I think you have a wrong impression of Ripple (as do many other people). Everyone can run servers and validators in the Ripple network. The fact that from the beginngin only Ripple Labs was running servers and validators stemms merely from the fact that someone has to start. Someone ran the first bitcoin client and started the network by doing so. At that time the bitcoin network was centralized.
Also the fees in ripple are not delivered to anyone. They are destroyed meaning those ripples seize to excist. Noone get's them.

Thanks for the reply, yep maybe I'm viewing ripple from the outside and it seems to be more centralised and corporate... anyway that's a side issue... Lets talk about NEM.

I really like the idea of USE/ACTIVITY contributing to forging, so you have stake + account activity. Perhaps there could be plans to allow us to default link an account/client with a node, broadcast all transactions through the node we link to and assign our PoS-weight to the node, the node owners would then benefit from forging fees and they could share some of that with the accounts linked to them,... that way nodes like exchanges would not dominate and the network would be more balanced.

ATM this is an issue with NXT too.

[pheromone]

Hello all!
I suggest using this logo for NEM. This is not a coin, it is necessary to deviate from a circular shape.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ViEyNAdjQXc/UwX-9x0pCEI/AAAAAAAABW8/b_ya6okDsmY/w500-h709-no/nem.jpg

so cool! i like this logo 

+1

simple,vivid and modern;just a style of IBM

+1.. After the dev team release the initial version, we can create hardware / software base gadget, (nem point of sale, nem usb drive) to do transaction in restaurant, shop etc... hehehe..  if can achieve to this level, then.. woooo...    

[erkki12]

1. How to get independency from BTC
2. How to transfer value from the real world to NEM in a direct way (so then merchant can use directly)
3. How to establish an easy fiat-NEM exchange that goes in line with point 2

1. Independency from BTC will be only achieved when you can exchange fiat directly into NEM without BTC in the middle. We should as a community now think about funding a site that offers that possibility. Or maybe contacting Graviton about when is he about to implement fiat in dgex...

2. Most merchants will accept NEM only if we get enough buzz around it. As dogecoin can be used to buy real life stuff, can NEM sure as hell be used to buy stuff! It just depends on how aggressive is our marketing plan. Oh an by the way there should be a marketing plan comprised for NEM, so anyone up for the task go ahead!

3. I don't think there is a easy way. The easiest could be to get NEM into an already existing exchange. Trying to come up with an exchange with ourselves is something that I fear will be a horrible task. But if anyone feels up for the task he should go ahead by all means! Otherwise Graviton, I believe, is trying to get dgex into accepting fiat.. Maybe he could do it or then we should contact some other exchanges. But realistically we wont have a chance into getting into any exchange without donations, because NEM will be a new and volatile coin with no guarantees.

In order to disconnect NEM from BTC, we will need a fiat -> NEM exchange. In the US coinbase is the only way to convert fiat to BTC. They've gotten lots of venture funding (so it's probably legal). If anyone can figure out the legality of it, I will be willing to help build an exchange.

I can do the legal part, but i need to discuss this in detail with you. Ill send you pm later today when i get home.

[Jaguar0625]

The vibe that I get from this 2Kool4Skewl guy goes totally against what NEM is trying to stand for.

This is irrelevant. He should no be removed for posting his opinion.
 

His opinions were not honest they were baseless criticism and FUD. His opinions were of somebody that doesn't want to see this thing succeed.

This is totally irrelevant. He got his stakes by following the rules. The dev should not be able to take that away.

What if after Nem is "released" dev put  "backdoor" in the code such that in future they can "remove" anyone's coins if they don't like what they posted?

WTF is that?

Dictatorship?

The NEM code will be published at the time of release, so it will be open to the community to search for "backdoors". Let's not spread rumors .

[Jaguar0625]

NEM is first of all a community of which people share a certain ideas and goals and we going to build NEM/ Nemcoin as our decentralized payment platform together as we go along. I see no reason to keep people that are unhappy with NEM and this approach.

reminds me of some Hitler's and Marxist speeches

The new development which now set in, however, meant that there had to be a new orientation not merely of our ideas but also in regard to the practical policy which we had to carry out. Even today certain individuals who have fallen in the march of events refuse to adapt themselves to this change. They cannot understand it because it is beyond their mental horizon or outside the sphere of their egotistic interests. Our National Socialist teaching has undoubtedly a revolutionizing effect in many spheres of life and has interfered and acted under the revolutionary impulse.

And, NXT reminds me of an oligarchy :

Oligarchy is a form of power structure in which power effectively rests with a small number of people. ... Throughout history, oligarchies have been tyrannical (relying on public obedience and/or oppression to exist) or relatively benign. Aristotle pioneered the use of the term as a synonym for rule by the rich, for which the exact term is plutocracy. However, oligarchy is not always a rule by wealth, as oligarchs can simply be a privileged group, and do not have to be connected by bloodlines as in a monarchy.

But, either way, I think it' s a stretch to connect cryptocurrencies to political structures.

[Jaguar0625]

Question on POI

I've search/scanned the thread for POI comments, I have not found an answer to this so apologies if this has been answered.

I tend to use crypto from the same account but not from the same device, so I might have a forging node at home but  transact by signing transactions on a non-forging client on my mobile.

The way I read it, POI is linked to the node activity not account activity.

So I want to contribute as a good community member transact in NEM and run a node but don't want to have to transact from that specific node just to ensure that I benefit from forging on that node through increased POI.

My reading of it also means that commercial nodes and exchanges will gain a lot of POI and could result in NEM looking like Ripple with busineses running the infrastructure and gaining most from that in terms of the transaction fees for the purchase/exchange AND then getting the lions share of the forging benefit.

So with POI can I still effectively participate with my stake in forging somehow?

Some of the details are still being worked out around POI. But, the current thinking is as follows:
- The transaction graph is based on account numbers - not IP addresses or devices
- There *may* be extra forging power given to an account that is forging on multiple nodes (in order to reward the network backbone, which was the initial idea behind PON; an account forging on 2 nodes should be more important than the same account forging on one node)

[Tasunko]

Hi Guys!

My signature done

[utopianfuture]

hi all,

http://www.ournem.com   the site is down?  i can't visit it...

me too！

I have some technical issues with the host site. Should be resolved today.

[gs02xzz]

update 2/19 : an unified stake holder list would be made on 2/22 which is three days from today. You need to file a complaint in the stake complaint thread by that day if you think you are a stakeholder but you are not on the list or on the list without Y.

Will the stakeholder list be posted here or your website? What does the "without Y" mean?

[Fatih87SK]

update 2/19 : an unified stake holder list would be made on 2/22 which is three days from today. You need to file a complaint in the stake complaint thread by that day if you think you are a stakeholder but you are not on the list or on the list without Y.

Will the stakeholder list be posted here or your website? What does the "without Y" mean?

Y means that everythings OK

[utopianfuture]

update 2/19 : an unified stake holder list would be made on 2/22 which is three days from today. You need to file a complaint in the stake complaint thread by that day if you think you are a stakeholder but you are not on the list or on the list without Y.

Will the stakeholder list be posted here or your website? What does the "without Y" mean?

The stakeholder list in a google sheet listed in the front page of this thread. Bookmark the front page as the updates will be there as well.

Condition Y = okie; blank = not qualified. As described in the fundrasing process, registration in each page has to send in the fee or satisfy a NEM promotion condition. Accounts without condition =Y did not satify these above mentioned conditions and therefore not qualified.

[grassrots24]

Hello all!
I suggest using this logo for NEM. This is not a coin, it is necessary to deviate from a circular shape.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ViEyNAdjQXc/UwX-9x0pCEI/AAAAAAAABW8/b_ya6okDsmY/w500-h709-no/nem.jpg

so cool! i like this logo 

+1

simple,vivid and modern;just a style of IBM

Yeah I'm in love with this logo. It's professional and instantly recognisable.

[Lucozade35]

Def cool, very smart looking and not to over the top.......

[utopianfuture]

2Kool4Skewl

Are you interested to be part of NEM or not?

If no; Good luck with NXT.

If yes; UP will add you to the list and we create some innovative stuff together. Remember that NEM is still being built. So anything is possible.

Let us know your answer.

Guys.

Don't talk to him unless he answers my question.

Easy for us and a very easy question for him.

Did I ever say that I didn't want my stake?  Why are stakeholders threatened with removal if they voice their opinion?

This is the situation now. No need to talk about the past.
Face the situation and answer my question.

LOL

What a bunch of crap.  I don't have to answer your question.  My stake should never have been taken away.

So, I guess if you have any questions or objections to what the Nem community is doing, you have to undergo interrogation or risk losing your stake.

There are two points everyone should understand.

1. The development team did not sell NEM stakes or actively looked for passive investors during the fundraising; This is the purpose of the fundraising "We are looking for active participants that can help NEM in particular and the decentralized network culture in general" . There were fee /promotional condition to participate in NEM and when we have an unified group of stakeholders we will divide all NEM (minus development shares) equally to all stakeholders. In essence, the goal of the fundraising process is to build the community and funding that can help to move the NEM platform forward.

2. This is the disclaimer applying for the fundraising "While we are committed to the idea of "Fair Distribution - Equal Shares for ALL "; the fund raising terms are subject to changes upon the discretion of the development team."

These are taken "words by words" from the fundraising page. If you misunderstood these terms by the time of registration or now disagree with them, you are now free to leave and I will refund what you contributed in.

There are a plenty of associations out there and you are free to leave this one and join what you like, and yes based on the disclaimer the development team has the power to not accept a certain account in our stakeholder list.

[syjrmswx]

I am changing the front page to reflect the new ideas in the development plan. NEM is not planned to be a fork of NXT anymore but rather NEM code bases would be re-written completely based on the best ideas in Bitcoin and NXT plus its own innovations.

It is time we have a good looking front page for NEM. So let me know if you have a proposal for the nemcoin.info site. I like sites with a clean, minimalist design. Here are some sites samples that I like http://www.mastercoin.org/ ; http://info.nxtcrypto.org/ ; http://potcoin.info/

The site should belong to a NEM founder/ stakeholder who commits to NEM's future, it could be a group effort as well. Initially, the site will only have basic information about NEM and also have regular NEM development updates.

If you re-write the NEM code completely,how do the NXT develop? Out of circulation or any other plan?

[Parana]

Does someone tried to put in graph the forging system scheme?

I didn't understand very well the forge system...(detailed at the nem development plan)

thanks a lot!!!