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Author Topic: DefaultTrust changes  (Read 50194 times)
LoyceV
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April 13, 2019, 05:31:01 PM
Last edit: April 13, 2019, 05:41:24 PM by LoyceV
Merited by Hhampuz (1)
 #1601

I think the trust system does way more harm to the community than good, it should be removed IMO.
~snip~
~In my opinion, the only way to move forward with this current trust model is to completely remove negative trust~
The suggestion that only traders should be on DT had me thinking: why not create different levels of DefaultTrust, and force users to choose one (or more!) of those?
The way things are going, I don't think more than a few percent of active users will ever set a custom Trust list, and the majority wouldn't know what to choose anyway.
DefaultTrust could be expanded by for instance the following levels:
DefaultTrust0: back to the way things were before January 09: theymos hand-picks DT1 members.
DefaultTrust1: the current system.
DefaultTrust2: only experienced traders on DT1 (how to select them would be up for discussion).
DefaultTrust3: only Admins, Global Moderators and >2 years Staff Members.
DefaultTrust4: only active scambusters.
DefaultTrust5: any user that can sign a message from an address >1000 Bitcoin, signature valid 12 months.
DefaultTrust6: ...........

Details can of course be changed (I just made most of this up), but I'm hoping this can be a system that satisfies the majority of users, while allowing new users to make an informed decision.
It can be implemented like theymos' April Fools' Day KYC: a big warning above all pages, and it only disappears once the user has made a choice. On top of this, every user can still st their own Trust list.


If this seems like a good idea, I'll create a dedicated topic for it. Until then, discuss away here Cheesy

See: Suggestion: Create different levels of DefaultTrust

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Hhampuz
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April 13, 2019, 05:36:59 PM
 #1602

~~

If this seems like a good idea, I'll create a dedicated topic for it. Until then, discuss away here Cheesy

There is a lot of merit to your post, even though I could only afford to give you 1.

I can get behind your suggestion with the only issue being that theymos probably didn't want to pick DT members? Otherwise I'm fine with this, please do make the dedicated topic Smiley.

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LoyceV
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April 13, 2019, 05:42:18 PM
 #1603

I can get behind your suggestion with the only issue being that theymos probably didn't want to pick DT members? Otherwise I'm fine with this, please do make the dedicated topic Smiley.
Done:

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April 13, 2019, 05:48:12 PM
Merited by LoyceV (1)
 #1604

Maybe trust and reputation should be different categories. In real life, some of the most obnoxious and badly behaved people I've dealt with have been the most trustworthy. It's the smarmy do-gooders that I treat with caution, especially if they gain reputation with the trappings of wealth.

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JanEmil
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April 13, 2019, 06:18:49 PM
 #1605

JanEmil - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=1118969
is now in DT.

He has helft 44 Pos. feedbacks and 1 Neutral - 0 Neg.

What caught my eye was his positive feedback to this account : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=2463733;dt

Cointorox is an account for the service with the same name, which looks pretty shady in my opinion.

I don't like the fact people could mistake this positive feedback resulting from a payment to the actual reputation of the service itself.

Putting JanEmil in ~ for now.

I actually trust the project because they have paid me many times. But have removed the feedback so I follow the general "rules".

Thank you for the add even if I don't know fully what it mean yet.

asche
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April 13, 2019, 06:26:38 PM
 #1606

JanEmil - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=1118969
is now in DT.

He has helft 44 Pos. feedbacks and 1 Neutral - 0 Neg.

What caught my eye was his positive feedback to this account : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=2463733;dt

Cointorox is an account for the service with the same name, which looks pretty shady in my opinion.

I don't like the fact people could mistake this positive feedback resulting from a payment to the actual reputation of the service itself.

Putting JanEmil in ~ for now.

I actually trust the project because they have paid me many times. But have removed the feedback so I follow the general "rules".

Thank you for the add even if I don't know fully what it mean yet.

The fact that you don't know how the system works is one reason more to put you on the distrust list.

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April 13, 2019, 06:28:20 PM
 #1607

The fact that you don't know how the system works is one reason more to put you on the distrust list.

Trust don't come from a system but your actions every day.

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April 13, 2019, 06:37:59 PM
 #1608

The fact that you don't know how the system works is one reason more to put you on the distrust list.

Trust don't come from a system but your actions every day.


I hear these kinds of dumb arguments very frequently spouted out in various threads on this forum... mostly related to the practices of merit and trust.

Of course, you may be a superstar and the greatest person in real life, but merits and trust are not measuring real life.  It is measuring your forum related experiences (at least as perceived through others).  Of course, merits and trust measure different things, and trust does attempt to come a little bit closer to judging your real life character, but it is not measured on anything that cannot be determined by other forum members (such as if you happened to have been a real nice person in your grade school years, and whether grandma never had to yell at you nor spank you and you always ate all your cookies, drank all your milk while keeping the basement clean and organized).

Put BTC here: 35EVP8EePt8dyvKHaB7bXaRmKLm22YgRCA

How much alt coin diversification is necessary? if you are investing in Bitcoin, then perhaps 0%?
Jet Cash
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April 13, 2019, 06:47:06 PM
 #1609

(such as if you happened to have been a real nice person in your grade school years, and whether grandma never had to yell at you nor spank you and you always ate all your cookies, drank all your milk while keeping the basement clean and organized).

I'm bottom of the pile then. I was always in detention at school. My parents put me over the washing machine and took a belt to me. I hate milk on its own, and I don't eat cookies. I rebuilt a motor cycle gearbox in my bedroom as well. This probably shaped my character, and this may or may not be good.

I agree that the important things relate to forum activity, but good and helpful posting doesn't mean that a member won't try to take advantage of other members in a financial transaction.

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JayJuanGee
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April 13, 2019, 07:06:58 PM
 #1610

(such as if you happened to have been a real nice person in your grade school years, and whether grandma never had to yell at you nor spank you and you always ate all your cookies, drank all your milk while keeping the basement clean and organized).

I'm bottom of the pile then. I was always in detention at school. My parents put me over the washing machine and took a belt to me. I hate milk on its own, and I don't eat cookies. I rebuilt a motor cycle gearbox in my bedroom as well. This probably shaped my character, and this may or may not be good.

Seems like the rebellious roots of a potential cyberpunk.   Wink Wink

Put BTC here: 35EVP8EePt8dyvKHaB7bXaRmKLm22YgRCA

How much alt coin diversification is necessary? if you are investing in Bitcoin, then perhaps 0%?
asche
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April 13, 2019, 07:08:14 PM
 #1611

Trust don't come from a system but your actions every day.

You are proving my point.

You have no clue what you are writing about Wink You have no place in DT whatsoever.

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April 13, 2019, 08:03:57 PM
 #1612

Trust don't come from a system but your actions every day.

You are proving my point.

You have no clue what you are writing about Wink You have no place in DT whatsoever.

Care to elaborate on why JanEmil shouldn't be on DT?

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April 13, 2019, 08:19:18 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #1613

I had some points on the DT system changes a while back but I'll restate them since looking for them would be too much work:

The increase in DT1/2 members means trust value dilution. This henceforth means that positive trust is generally worth less, evidenced clearly by the increased trust scores on many individuals (of whom previously had far less).

What I would say is that now, with the dilution of positive trust: negative trust is worth more in relation. It's nearly a reversal of what would be common prior to these changes: "neg more, trust less".

That being said, I'm sticking to my old firm criteria regarding positive trust but not imposing them upon other users.

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April 13, 2019, 08:44:07 PM
 #1614

That being said, I'm sticking to my old firm criteria regarding positive trust but not imposing them upon other users.

I do share your point of view

Care to elaborate on why JanEmil shouldn't be on DT?

I thought it was self explanatory.

JanEmil has left extensive positive feedbacks to some users I find shady/doubtful.
JanEmil has left a lot of positive feedbacks with no reference
A lot of said feedbacks are for insignificant trades or with no indicated value
JanEmil, in his answer a few posts earlier clearly showed he is not aware of how the trust network works, meaning he is not measuring the impact of said feedbacks.


That being said, I have nothing against JanEmil, and all of the above if perfectly fine for a personal trust list. I only believe these ratings shouldn't make it to DT, and I definitely don't want to see them myself.

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April 13, 2019, 09:30:48 PM
Last edit: April 13, 2019, 09:46:55 PM by eddie13
Merited by Flying Hellfish (5), dbshck (4), Steamtyme (2)
 #1615

JanEmil's sent feedback looks excellent to me though I only count 36 so he must have deleted some..

I'm not a firm believer in being so stingy with positive feedback nor do I like the concept of deleting old feedback very much.
If someone gets negative trust it's not like you need to go pulling all of your old positive feedback to them because the trust score algorithm easily covers old positive with new negative. I think leaving feedback is a big decision and once you decide you should really be prepared to stick to your decision, as it becomes historically significant to understand situations at the time. Even if you have positive trust on an account you can just also put a red tag to counter it if you want.
When I am researching an account I want to see all of the history of it so deleting old feedback sucks, especially when looking way back at historic happenings.


JanEmil has left a lot of positive feedbacks with no reference
A lot of said feedbacks are for insignificant trades or with no indicated value

asche, not a single one of your received positive feedback has a reference, and 7 or 8 out of 10 of them are not even for trades, just opinions, only 2 having indicated value..
Half of your sent positives have no reference and half are not even for trades, just opinions.

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April 13, 2019, 09:45:47 PM
Merited by teeGUMES (5), TheNewAnon135246 (1), Lesbian Cow (1), Steamtyme (1)
 #1616

Please review me in ½ year again. I am here to learn and improve.

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April 13, 2019, 10:23:49 PM
Merited by TheNewAnon135246 (1), yogg (1)
 #1617

I'd prefer this attitude in DT1

Please review me in ½ year again. I am here to learn and improve.


rather than this attitude in DT1

Trust don't come from a system but your actions every day.

You are proving my point.

You have no clue what you are writing about Wink You have no place in DT whatsoever.
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April 13, 2019, 11:54:41 PM
 #1618

I'd prefer this attitude in DT1

Please review me in ½ year again. I am here to learn and improve.


rather than this attitude in DT1

Trust don't come from a system but your actions every day.

You are proving my point.

You have no clue what you are writing about Wink You have no place in DT whatsoever.


Agreed, asche you are coming across as an aschehole. 

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April 14, 2019, 03:41:59 AM
 #1619

Please review me in ½ year again. I am here to learn and improve.
I have excluded you anyways. Wells of positive trust received for pocket change trades are dangerous.

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OgNasty
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April 14, 2019, 07:09:54 PM
 #1620

Please review me in ½ year again. I am here to learn and improve.
I have excluded you anyways. Wells of positive trust received for pocket change trades are dangerous.

Receiving lots of positive trust is reason for exclusion from you now? Seems reasonable. Roll Eyes

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