[ANN] Spondoolies-Tech - carrier grade, data center ready mining rigs

[tom14cat14]

For bulk SP10 customers, we can do an intro with the owner of a WA DC with the following costs:
160$ / SP10 / month (minimum 6 months, one month deposit) + one time 100$ setup fess (includes the cables and mounting ears)

At 1.25 kw that comes out to $.18/kwh. That's still quite costly.

.18 is not to bad. The summer rate is about to kick in here and it is .15 now you add in cooling and the fact hat it is quiter. That is an acceptable rate. At least to me. 

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[RoadStress]

For bulk SP10 customers, we can do an intro with the owner of a WA DC with the following costs:
160$ / SP10 / month (minimum 6 months, one month deposit) + one time 100$ setup fess (includes the cables and mounting ears)

At 1.25 kw that comes out to $.18/kwh. That's still quite costly.

You can hoard as many as you want for the same price. Doesn't that count?

[CryptKeeper]

For bulk SP10 customers, we can do an intro with the owner of a WA DC with the following costs:
160$ / SP10 / month (minimum 6 months, one month deposit) + one time 100$ setup fess (includes the cables and mounting ears)

At 1.25 kw that comes out to $.18/kwh. That's still quite costly.

Depends on your location! In my country, power costs are high (about $0.38/kwh) and don't forget the cooling!

[Guy Corem]

For bulk SP10 customers, we can do an intro with the owner of a WA DC with the following costs:
160$ / SP10 / month (minimum 6 months, one month deposit) + one time 100$ setup fess (includes the cables and mounting ears)

At 1.25 kw that comes out to $.18/kwh. That's still quite costly.

Depends on your location! In my country, power costs are high (about $0.38/kwh) and don't forget the cooling!

And UPS, backup generator, physical security, 24 X 7 maintenance, ...

[bobsag3]

For bulk SP10 customers, we can do an intro with the owner of a WA DC with the following costs:
160$ / SP10 / month (minimum 6 months, one month deposit) + one time 100$ setup fess (includes the cables and mounting ears)

At 1.25 kw that comes out to $.18/kwh. That's still quite costly.

Depends on your location! In my country, power costs are high (about $0.38/kwh) and don't forget the cooling!

And UPS, backup generator, physical security, 24 X 7 maintenance, ...

And the cost of such a large expansive facility to supply all that power. Datacenters aint cheap.

[Zelek Uther]

It's true that we've designed SP10 and SP30 with DC deployment in mind.

I've been waiting for a long time for a professionally designed Bitcoin miner that plays nicely with racks. In every way, racks are the best way of housing multiple computers. You can stack them safely, screw them down, they aren't going to fall off the stack. You can take one out of the middle of the stack without affecting the others.

You can even buy a rack for home. Check out Acousti Products as an example, they even have rack cabinets with wood finish to make them look more attractive. I operate all my miners in a 24U rack cabinet from Acousti Products. It cuts out the noise, and all the heat can be taken outside by use of a Heat Ducting Kit - you just have to be willing to drill a 150mm hole through your wall.  The Active cabinets can handle a thermal load capacity of up to 7.2 kW, which is pretty good considering that you still need power for the rest of your house.  If you're drawing more than that, then you're not really a home miner any more... either that or you have put in more circuits and converted your basement to a server room.  

Having a rack cabinet at home may be a bit extreme, but it's just another option.  I like it better than having my miners stacked on my desk, being noisy and heating up my room.  Also, the rack cabinet is secure (lock and key).  Of course the other way to go, as mentioned previously, is to rent rack space in a Data Centre.

[Guy Corem]

We're waiting for samples from https://openrigs.com/
They are in the process of finalising specs on a product that is geared towards rack-mountable ASIC miners.
We'll post pictures when we'll get the samples.

[s1gs3gv]

Just my 2 cents:

As hard as I try, because I would really like to have some shiny spankin' new SP30s (do they come in matt black with satin chrome bezels ?)  , I can not find numbers that produce a profit significantly large enough to offset the risk, without making unreasonable and unlikely assumptions about one or more of a) the price of bitcoin in the future or b) limits on the rate of increase of difficulty. Even best case likely scenarios indicate barely making ROI after assuming a very large risk.

This is assuming April RoadStress SP30 bulk buy prices, the 'KNC' discount, and discounting any delivery risk (however slight).

Perhaps someone else can plug some numbers into https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/calculator that work, publish them here, and then justify their assumptions ?

Having said that, the fantasy of turning the basement into a server room (however impracticable the provision of power and cooling would be), the additional lure of the 'spread the hash' bait, and the David against Goliath (erm ... KNC) fable injects the kind of hallucinations straight into the temporal lobe that make me think, if only for the duration of a flashback, that if only I'd send ST all my money now I'd get to join the good guys in their eternal struggle against evil …

Nice hobby but unlikely to make much if any BTC …

L)L

(edited with poetic license)

[tom14cat14]

Just my 2 cents:

As hard as I try, because I would really like to have some shiny spankin' new SP30s (do they come in matt black with satin chrome bezels ?)  , I can not find numbers that produce a profit significantly large enough to offset the risk, without making unreasonable and unlikely assumptions about one or more of a) the price of bitcoin in the future or b) limits on the rate of increase of difficulty. Even best case likely scenarios indicate barely making ROI after assuming a very large risk.

This is assuming April RoadStress SP30 bulk buy prices, the 'KNC' discount, and discounting any delivery risk (however slight).

Perhaps someone else can plug some numbers into https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/calculator that work, publish them here, and then justify their assumptions ?

Having said that, the fantasy of turning the basement into a server room (however impracticable the provision of power and cooling would be), the additional lure of the 'spread the hash' bait, and the David against Goliath (erm ... KNC) story  is tempting … but unconvincing.

Nice hobby but unlikely to make much if any BTC …

L)L

This is what I have been debating for a long time. There would have to be a huge slow down the rate difficulty increases. It is hard to see this with the increased hash rate of new ASIC's. But I want to believe because I want 1 or 3 of these.

[jimmothy]

Anyone know the exact dimensions of the pcbs and the psu?

I'm making an immersion cooling mockup and would like to know how close together these boards can get.

Average asic pcb thickness would be helpful as well. (thickest component, not just the plastic)

I'll compile the data and provide it later. In the meantime, you can look at the information package we've released for SP10: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/perv38mg04938ru/gkIFHA3OpQ
The PCB layout software is Allegro PCB Designer (Ver 16.6)

The size of these pcpbs certainly do look attractive for immersion cooling baths, easily stackable side to side with little lost space.

Are you going with a 2-phase immersion cooling approach using something like 3m Novec?

How are you planning to absorb the heat at the top of the container? Water cooled chillers?

Yes I plan on using a water cooled condenser at the top of the system.

I don't own a SP10 miner but the reason I am using it as a reference is because it appears to be the largest board out at the moment and I am wondering how practical a "one-size-fits-all" solution would be.

The most important thing when it comes to immersion cooling is how close together the boards can be (to save on fluid). The length and width of the sp10 board is very large which would require more cooling liquid which is not ideal. However if the boards can be placed very close together it can still be economical. I think that if 8 boards can fit within a 2U container it would be worth it (~3-4 gallons of novec needed per container). So that means 5KW could be cooled for ~$750 worth of fluid along with the building materials ~$250 or about the cost of an air conditioner while using ~1kw less.

This is of course theoretical and likely not very accurate.

[Guy Corem]

Just my 2 cents:

As hard as I try, because I would really like to have some shiny spankin' new SP30s (do they come in matt black with satin chrome bezels ?)  , I can not find numbers that produce a profit significantly large enough to offset the risk, without making unreasonable and unlikely assumptions about one or more of a) the price of bitcoin in the future or b) limits on the rate of increase of difficulty. Even best case likely scenarios indicate barely making ROI after assuming a very large risk.

This is assuming April RoadStress SP30 bulk buy prices, the 'KNC' discount, and discounting any delivery risk (however slight).

Perhaps someone else can plug some numbers into https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/calculator that work, publish them here, and then justify their assumptions ?

Having said that, the fantasy of turning the basement into a server room (however impracticable the provision of power and cooling would be), the additional lure of the 'spread the hash' bait, and the David against Goliath (erm ... KNC) story  is tempting … but unconvincing.

Nice hobby but unlikely to make much if any BTC …

L)L

This is what I have been debating for a long time. There would have to be a huge slow down the rate difficulty increases. It is hard to see this with the increased hash rate of new ASIC's. But I want to believe because I want 1 or 3 of these.

http://bitcoin.sipa.be/growth.png

[s1gs3gv]

http://bitcoin.sipa.be/growth.png

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/calculator <--------- numbers please ?

Assume $0.1 USD kwh, $4500 SP30 price, August delivery. With your difficulty projections, what price does BTC have to be for me to get a good (100%) return on my investment ?

also see: https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty

[vpn1]

@ Biffa  - my apologies for the scoffing. it is just not clear to my why you would not buy one owing to the noise factor i.e. stick it in a different room from where you sit or sleep. stick it outside in a weather proof housing easily hand made. coming from the GPU world and running 4 x R9 290 + 2 x Scythe Kaze Ultra 120 mm fans - I like to believe I know what noise is.    unless you live in a bachelor apartment have no balcony and no access to the outside other than the corridor - the okay. When I hear someone say they don't want to buy one because of the noise, the obvious comes to mind as above. I liken it to, someone saying 'i'd buy one of these if they come in different colors because my wife would absolutely not allow me to keep it in the living room because she cannot stand the color silver'

@ liquid coolers - cost nothing to do:

1.  technical grade mineral oil  http://store.steoil.com/categories/Crystal-Plus-Tech-Grade/?sort=featured
2.  DYI kits  http://www.pugetsystems.com/submerged.php easily replicable with some time and effort on your part for at least half the kit cost
3.  DYI GPU farm immersion https://blog.korelogic.com/blog/2013/06/05/oilcooledgpus

Lots of info out there. I wouldn't get wrapped up in the value/cost of the device or the thought it is a 'professional device' it is nothing but hardware and need not have to be treated professionally to the point where you can't buy one because it costs too much to cool and makes too much noise from the fans where there isn't an inch my house where I can sequester it without hearing it - including the garden outside. It's nothing more than a 'thing'.

If I recall correctly you can buy these either by the chip only, by the board only or the reference miner as a whole. Just buy the boards sans fans and housing save a few dollars and dunk it oil and be done. In your house. In your bedroom even. Under your pillow even. 

* notes: kiss your warranty goodbye no doubt; sub heat sink contact per GPU need to replace thermal paste with non dissolving thermal medium; can all be cleaned but major effort, but can be.

everything all quite solvable whether it is heat, noise, color, placement, cooling, whatever.

[jimmothy]

1.  technical grade mineral oil  http://store.steoil.com/categories/Crystal-Plus-Tech-Grade/?sort=featured
2.  DYI kits  http://www.pugetsystems.com/submerged.php easily replicable with some time and effort on your part for at least half the kit cost
3.  DYI GPU farm immersion https://blog.korelogic.com/blog/2013/06/05/oilcooledgpus

That is single phase immersion cooling. It has a much lower heat density/cooling effectiveness compared to two phase.

[vpn1]

LOL^ ?

So just how many machines do you plan on buying then?

Do you want to be like these guys

http://www.theverge.com/2013/12/2/5165428/bitcoin-mine-in-hong-kong-uses-jelly-to-keep-cool

If so is it necessary to think out aloud here to convince yourself?

I suspect all you can afford is one POS "thing" and as such dunking it in mineral oil will work out just fine for you. Otherwise if you wish to test your technical prowess about fantastical emerged farms of this specific product, you wouldn't even need to think out aloud. Here.

Good luck to you whatever you may do or not do.

[jimmothy]

LOL^ ?

So just how many machines do you plan on buying then?

Do you want to be like these guys

http://www.theverge.com/2013/12/2/5165428/bitcoin-mine-in-hong-kong-uses-jelly-to-keep-cool

If so is it necessary to think out aloud here to convince yourself?

I suspect all you can afford is one POS "thing" and as such dunking it in mineral oil will work out just fine for you. Otherwise if you wish to test your technical prowess about fantastical emerged farms of this specific product, you wouldn't even need to think out aloud. Here.

Good luck to you whatever you may do or not do.

Sorry if I offended you in some way.

But yes, I plan on doing exactly what allied control did but scaled down 1000 times.

As for my fantastical farm I actually plan to cool an entire ONE (1) prospero x-1 as an experiment/for fun.

I only asked for the dimensions because I am interested in how viable 2 phase immersion cooling can be for the hardcore home miners. (not claiming to be one)

[vpn1]

If so, do you really think you will find the answers you seek here ?

Email or phone and ask the manufacturer directly yourself.

Why waffle on an internet forum with people in different time  zones with different knowledge awaiting an answer you seek.

If you are going to do it, do it. Get to the point and pick up the phone and ask the manufacturer the answer to the question you seek.

LOL^ ?

So just how many machines do you plan on buying then?

Do you want to be like these guys

http://www.theverge.com/2013/12/2/5165428/bitcoin-mine-in-hong-kong-uses-jelly-to-keep-cool

If so is it necessary to think out aloud here to convince yourself?

I suspect all you can afford is one POS "thing" and as such dunking it in mineral oil will work out just fine for you. Otherwise if you wish to test your technical prowess about fantastical emerged farms of this specific product, you wouldn't even need to think out aloud. Here.

Good luck to you whatever you may do or not do.

Sorry if I offended you in some way.

But yes, I plan on doing exactly what allied control did but scaled down 1000 times.

As for my fantastical farm I actually plan to cool an entire ONE (1) prospero x-1 as an experiment/for fun.

I only asked for the dimensions because I am interested in how viable 2 phase immersion cooling can be for the hardcore home miners. (not claiming to be one)

[windpath]

1.  technical grade mineral oil  http://store.steoil.com/categories/Crystal-Plus-Tech-Grade/?sort=featured
2.  DYI kits  http://www.pugetsystems.com/submerged.php easily replicable with some time and effort on your part for at least half the kit cost
3.  DYI GPU farm immersion https://blog.korelogic.com/blog/2013/06/05/oilcooledgpus

This is something I've been researching pretty seriously.

The oil you propose will work great, but needs a suitable cooling system for the higher power densities (radiator+fan,chiller,...).

The DIY kits can not handle the power density without adding a custom cooling system.

The DIY GPU farm is in a datacenter submerged in GR cooling tanks and custom oil that cost about $2 per watt and a tank/rack maxes out at 100Kw (just for the system), and are the size of a 42U rack laid flat on the ground, they include intake and outlet piping to a chiller and a decent sized pump....



Love the idea, and for it to be practical just have to make it less expensive to implement.

[jimmothy]

The DIY GPU farm is in a datacenter submerged in GR cooling tanks and custom oil that cost about $2 per watt and a tank/rack maxes out at 100Kw

Green revolution claims total infrastructure costs of $4/w but that is far too expensive IMO. They also say

Most customers elect to install a cooling capacity of 10kW – 20 kW per rack. Since rack capacity is a function of coolant flow, there is always the possibility of upgrading the pump module to provide more cooling overhead in the future. - See more at: http://www.grcooling.com/data-center-performance/

So I doubt 100kw/42u rack is realistic without some serious cooling.

On the other hand if you can cool 5KW with 4 gallons of novec 2 phase cooling fluid that would only be $0.2/w and it would be much more efficient/effective at cooling.

[Guy Corem]

Anyone know the exact dimensions of the pcbs and the psu?

I'm making an immersion cooling mockup and would like to know how close together these boards can get.

Average asic pcb thickness would be helpful as well. (thickest component, not just the plastic)

I'll compile the data and provide it later. In the meantime, you can look at the information package we've released for SP10: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/perv38mg04938ru/gkIFHA3OpQ
The PCB layout software is Allegro PCB Designer (Ver 16.6)

Still waiting to get SP10 data from Harel our HW director. Got SP30 data for now:

In high level the system include 2 PSUs+ 2 Main boards and Management board.

PSU dimensions
http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/132/trn_ac-dc_ds1200-3_release1_3_1296254727_techref-263453.pdf

look at Page 12

Main board dimensions
440X330X2.2mm
with max height on CS 13mm not final
and max height on PS 7mm not final

Mng board
87X265mm
with max height on CS 15mm not final
and max height on PS 3mm not final

Power is provided to the main board using a bus bar
Signals are connected between the Main and the Mng board using a flat cable.