NA

[veertje]

So now positive again please   I think the dev team is doing a great job and LTEX can support as well and did very good things for Gulden. Trust is needed here first on both sides. Can take a while after this maybe. Maybe talk face to face in a meeting and join forces. All want the best for Gulden, so old cows have to get burried here for trust between both parties, i think.

I want nothing else (or less) than a positive and trustful cooperation with anyone here, especially the dev team. They are absolutely doing an awesome job, but that makes it the more sad that I lost trust in the way they chose to dictate things here without any room for serious debate!

Let it sink for a few days. I think you reased some good questions and discussion is there now. For the funding it was ok to do so, is my oppinion, else it wasn't supported. Don't be too negative on it, i think.  

[MaNI]

to become owner of one of Guldens most valuable assets, being the IOS wallet and other IOS apps.

Sorry I've tried to not get involved in this but I can't sit back and watch such misinformation being wilfully spread.
They will not be the owner of the app (which is any way open source), just the distributor, and more than that most likely the *temporary* distributor, something which they are doing as a favour for us the dev team because we asked them and because this is the best tactic to solve our current app store problemand what has worked for other coins.
Repeating a lie often enough does *not* make it true, it is quite clear to me that you are trying to make an issue here where there is none.

Please do not get involved in this MaNi, you are doing a fantastic job. This frustration began long before you got into the dev team and many people left because of it. I know the language is sometimes not appropriate but sometimes there is no other way for people to listen than to bang them on the head.

Unfortunately people leave me very little choice but to become involved (and believe me I have many other things I would much rather be doing) when they make broad sweeping statements about the dev team.
We are very much a *team* and not separate individuals. While I may primarily be in the dev team for my coding skills I am consulted on and we discuss almost everything, this latest decision of how to go forward on the Apple situation, for example I was very much involved in.

While this animosity may have started before I joined, I am part of the team now and an attack (and I use the word attack because really that is what this is) on the 'dev team' is very much an attack on me it is that simple. So perhaps people should contemplate this sort of stuff in more depth and consider exactly who they are insulting when they make insults or insinuations about the dev team.
When that attack contains complete misinformation and lies I am left no choice but to defend myself and the team as a whole.

[BioMike]

Well, you were too late for that action. The IPO was started already and filling op quick. Next time better i guess... for now more than enough said. All positive vibes to Gulden again, pls  

Yeah... an IPO below market price... sure that fills up quickly.

[Jero]

Well, you were too late for that action. The IPO was started already and filling op quick. Next time better i guess... for now more than enough said. All positive vibes to Gulden again, pls  

Yeah... an IPO below market price... sure that fills up quickly.

BioMike, you are a complete ass. Dont you read? The IPO started at a time the price was around 500 sats en was filled way before the explosion to almost 1500.

And what is your point anyway in bringing this up? Its always and ALWAYS only you and LTEX that incite people inside the community. Just stop the FUD!

[LTEX]

Well, you were too late for that action. The IPO was started already and filling op quick. Next time better i guess... for now more than enough said. All positive vibes to Gulden again, pls  

Yeah... an IPO below market price... sure that fills up quickly.

I was not too late, actually I was the first to offer 1BTC if only we could discuss creating a foundation in stead of funding a privately owned limited!:

https://community.gulden.com/t/help-us-get-nocks-and-gulden-on-the-app-store/1285/9?u=ltex

But that's the whole reason this discussion exists isn't it? The way this works is simple:

-We decided to do this and need cash
-Everyone who backs this gets cheap NLG for their support
-Dont ask questions, we don't like that, just put up the cash and STFU!
-If you do have questions, don't share them with us, we will ignore you, shut you out and try to blame you for any damage that comes from our dictatorial behavior...

[leipebarry]

LTEX raised up a good point, shouldn't we be more carefull with the ways in which the premine is spent and perhaps wait till the market cap has increased significantly? I mean the premine is the fuel that drives this project to new heights right?   I mean for 1 million premine you get 1k euros which you can use to materialize nice things, however if that same 1 million premine is worth 400k euro's it's much better, you can do public advertisements, hire that BBW blonde from the PLUS supermarket to do a commercial and lots of other cool stuff. My concern is that the devs are thinking too small whereas they should start thinking big and anticipate on the future more.

Why should the devteam do that?
We have the 1680club right?
They will put their money where their mouth is!
They can do marketing right?
LTEX is specialized in marketing right?
You guys see the bigger picture so act on it!
Does the devteam needs to give you a kiss on the forehead before you actually do the things you are talking about?

[Meije]

to become owner of one of Guldens most valuable assets, being the IOS wallet and other IOS apps.

Sorry I've tried to not get involved in this but I can't sit back and watch such misinformation being wilfully spread.
They will not be the owner of the app (which is any way open source), just the distributor, and more than that most likely the *temporary* distributor, something which they are doing as a favour for us the dev team because we asked them and because this is the best tactic to solve our current app store problemand what has worked for other coins.
Repeating a lie often enough does *not* make it true, it is quite clear to me that you are trying to make an issue here where there is none.

Please do not get involved in this MaNi, you are doing a fantastic job. This frustration began long before you got into the dev team and many people left because of it. I know the language is sometimes not appropriate but sometimes there is no other way for people to listen than to bang them on the head.

Unfortunately people leave me very little choice but to become involved (and believe me I have many other things I would much rather be doing) when they make broad sweeping statements about the dev team.
We are very much a *team* and not separate individuals. While I may primarily be in the dev team for my coding skills I am consulted on and we discuss almost everything, this latest decision of how to go forward on the Apple situation, for example I was very much involved in.

While this animosity may have started before I joined, I am part of the team now and an attack (and I use the word attack because really that is what this is) on the 'dev team' is very much an attack on me it is that simple. So perhaps people should contemplate this sort of stuff in more depth and consider exactly who they are insulting when they make insults or insinuations about the dev team.
When that attack contains complete misinformation and lies I am left no choice but to defend myself and the team as a whole.

I actually never used the word 'dev team' because we do not know anything how things are decided behind the curtains so it might well have been that you didn't know anything about this. It is indeed an attack but a attack with founded argument( at least on my side) that such a decision is not the devs team to make but everyone's decision, the Bitcoin devs got in trouble lately with similar issues. There should  have been a democratic voting with such a big decision and not just a dev team decision, bypassing the entire community is just not appropriate, although i do partially agree with the outcome of the decision.
Anyway, it's done now so no going back, i just hope that next time we will have a voice in similar matters, just forum talk won't cut it, we need official voting for such big decisions.

[LTEX]

Well, you were too late for that action. The IPO was started already and filling op quick. Next time better i guess... for now more than enough said. All positive vibes to Gulden again, pls  

Yeah... an IPO below market price... sure that fills up quickly.

BioMike, you are a complete ass. Dont you read? The IPO started at a time the price was around 500 sats en was filled way before the explosion to almost 1500.

And what is your point anyway in bringing this up? Its always and ALWAYS only you and LTEX that incite people inside the community. Just stop the FUD!

Come on Jero, maybe you should watch the movie TimeMachine first. Maybe then you can decide wether you want to be an Eloy or a Morloch...

[LTEX]

LTEX raised up a good point, shouldn't we be more carefull with the ways in which the premine is spent and perhaps wait till the market cap has increased significantly? I mean the premine is the fuel that drives this project to new heights right?   I mean for 1 million premine you get 1k euros which you can use to materialize nice things, however if that same 1 million premine is worth 400k euro's it's much better, you can do public advertisements, hire that BBW blonde from the PLUS supermarket to do a commercial and lots of other cool stuff. My concern is that the devs are thinking too small whereas they should start thinking big and anticipate on the future more.

Why should the devteam do that?
We have the 1680club right?
They will put their money where their mouth is!
They can do marketing right?
LTEX is specialized in marketing right?
You guys see the bigger picture so act on it!
Does the devteam needs to give you a kiss on the forehead before you actually do the things you are talking about?

[/b]

No, they just need to stop deciding single-handedly on everything and at least honor serious questions by serious members with an answer (decent or not)!

[leipebarry]

Well, you were too late for that action. The IPO was started already and filling op quick. Next time better i guess... for now more than enough said. All positive vibes to Gulden again, pls  

Yeah... an IPO below market price... sure that fills up quickly.

BioMike, you are a complete ass. Dont you read? The IPO started at a time the price was around 500 sats en was filled way before the explosion to almost 1500.

And what is your point anyway in bringing this up? Its always and ALWAYS only you and LTEX that incite people inside the community. Just stop the FUD!

Come on Jero, maybe you should watch the movie TimeMachine first. Maybe then you can decide wether you want to be an Eloy or a Morloch...

Better agree with LTEX!
Because if you do not agree with him you are dumb and he will put a big wall on 1680sat.
That is the LTEX way of doing things right?

About the GULDEX, everybody now knows it is a pump hype and fail.
Sorry mate better luck next time  

[BioMike]

@MaNI, so if you consider yourself as part of the whole team. What's your opinion about the community members that feel like they are ignored and held back by the dev team? How do you as a team plan to improve that? The discussion about IPO for the iOS app is just one example, the problem is (and long time has been) bigger than that.

And don't use the open source of the wallet as an excuse for guarantee that everything will be fine, you should know better that that is a false excuse.

[leipebarry]

LTEX raised up a good point, shouldn't we be more carefull with the ways in which the premine is spent and perhaps wait till the market cap has increased significantly? I mean the premine is the fuel that drives this project to new heights right?   I mean for 1 million premine you get 1k euros which you can use to materialize nice things, however if that same 1 million premine is worth 400k euro's it's much better, you can do public advertisements, hire that BBW blonde from the PLUS supermarket to do a commercial and lots of other cool stuff. My concern is that the devs are thinking too small whereas they should start thinking big and anticipate on the future more.

Why should the devteam do that?
We have the 1680club right?
They will put their money where their mouth is!
They can do marketing right?
LTEX is specialized in marketing right?
You guys see the bigger picture so act on it!
Does the devteam needs to give you a kiss on the forehead before you actually do the things you are talking about?

[/b]

No, they just need to stop deciding single-handedly on everything and at least honor serious questions by serious members with an answer (decent or not)!

No they should at least talk it over with the LTEX and if the LTEX says it is oke they are allowed to proceed right?
They better listen or else they get a 1680sat wall because that is the way LTEX debates.
LTEX you have lost all credibility!

BioMike keep it up being the underling of LTEX, how's life under the table?  

[leipebarry]

Well, you were too late for that action. The IPO was started already and filling op quick. Next time better i guess... for now more than enough said. All positive vibes to Gulden again, pls  

Yeah... an IPO below market price... sure that fills up quickly.

BioMike, you are a complete ass. Dont you read? The IPO started at a time the price was around 500 sats en was filled way before the explosion to almost 1500.

And what is your point anyway in bringing this up? Its always and ALWAYS only you and LTEX that incite people inside the community. Just stop the FUD!

Come on Jero, maybe you should watch the movie TimeMachine first. Maybe then you can decide wether you want to be an Eloy or a Morloch...

Better agree with LTEX!
Because if you do not agree with him you are dumb and he will put a big wall on 1680sat.
That is the LTEX way of doing things right?

About the GULDEX, everybody now knows it is a pump hype and fail.
Sorry mate better luck next time  

Keep going and I'll make sure you are grounded for one month 

Oehw that sounds like a threat, keep it going.

[BioMike]

Well, you were too late for that action. The IPO was started already and filling op quick. Next time better i guess... for now more than enough said. All positive vibes to Gulden again, pls  

Yeah... an IPO below market price... sure that fills up quickly.

BioMike, you are a complete ass. Dont you read? The IPO started at a time the price was around 500 sats en was filled way before the explosion to almost 1500.

And what is your point anyway in bringing this up? Its always and ALWAYS only you and LTEX that incite people inside the community. Just stop the FUD!

The IPO was completed before the price increase (did the maths at 520 sat, where an offer of 500 sat was made). When I funded a large part of the iOS wallet development costs the price was much higher than the market price.

My point is that I want the time, money and effort invested in NLG is respected. Questioning decisions is part of that from my side, you have only been nagging me about price not going to the moon. We are just critical and not someone who always says yes.

[Jero]

Well, you were too late for that action. The IPO was started already and filling op quick. Next time better i guess... for now more than enough said. All positive vibes to Gulden again, pls  

Yeah... an IPO below market price... sure that fills up quickly.

BioMike, you are a complete ass. Dont you read? The IPO started at a time the price was around 500 sats en was filled way before the explosion to almost 1500.

And what is your point anyway in bringing this up? Its always and ALWAYS only you and LTEX that incite people inside the community. Just stop the FUD!

Come on Jero, maybe you should watch the movie TimeMachine first. Maybe then you can decide wether you want to be an Eloy or a Morloch...

You offered a whole Bitcoin but only after someone talk with you? I guess you got a better deal at the local psych?
In the meantime people bought via BCT and other fora and backdoors as well. Again you were too late.

I guess you better go for Morloch finish Guldex en become an Eloy one day. Did you made the 50k bet will Guldex fail too? I still wait for a test account...

[sven22]

Didn't know kids are allowed out of bed at these times, damn.

[Jero]

Well, you were too late for that action. The IPO was started already and filling op quick. Next time better i guess... for now more than enough said. All positive vibes to Gulden again, pls  

Yeah... an IPO below market price... sure that fills up quickly.

BioMike, you are a complete ass. Dont you read? The IPO started at a time the price was around 500 sats en was filled way before the explosion to almost 1500.

And what is your point anyway in bringing this up? Its always and ALWAYS only you and LTEX that incite people inside the community. Just stop the FUD!

The IPO was completed before the price increase (did the maths at 520 sat, where an offer of 500 sat was made). When I funded a large part of the iOS wallet development costs the price was much higher than the market price.

My point is that I want the time, money and effort invested in NLG is respected. Questioning decisions is part of that from my side, you have only been nagging me about price not going to the moon. We are just critical and not someone who always says yes.

Very not true and you know. I only questioned your so called market stabilisator which is damaging te growth of Gulden imo. I never brought up anything about price/moon stuff. This is something that is constant in your mind. You are singing out loud when the price goes down but when price goes up you always talk about PnD. How can you be so wrong about me? Like I said before... stop this and put some more positive energy in your Gulden projects.

[leipebarry]

Well, you were too late for that action. The IPO was started already and filling op quick. Next time better i guess... for now more than enough said. All positive vibes to Gulden again, pls  

Yeah... an IPO below market price... sure that fills up quickly.

BioMike, you are a complete ass. Dont you read? The IPO started at a time the price was around 500 sats en was filled way before the explosion to almost 1500.

And what is your point anyway in bringing this up? Its always and ALWAYS only you and LTEX that incite people inside the community. Just stop the FUD!

Come on Jero, maybe you should watch the movie TimeMachine first. Maybe then you can decide wether you want to be an Eloy or a Morloch...

Better agree with LTEX!
Because if you do not agree with him you are dumb and he will put a big wall on 1680sat.
That is the LTEX way of doing things right?

About the GULDEX, everybody now knows it is a pump hype and fail.
Sorry mate better luck next time  

Keep going and I'll make sure you are grounded for one month 

Oehw that sounds like a threat, keep it going.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eut-xtjQI3A

Even if we disagree I have to say +1 for the humor.

[MaNI]

@MaNI, so if you consider yourself as part of the whole team. What's your opinion about the community members that feel like they are ignored and held back by the dev team?

I cannot speak about incidences that have happened before I have joined, however quite honestly I feel that the current complaints are completely unfounded for the most part, at least from the most vocal people, there may be less vocal people who have legitimate concerns but I wouldn't know as I have not heard from them.
I think that these people are still reacting based on things that have happened in the past, and not on what is happening now, I ask these people to let go of the past and focus on the present.

In this particular instance, an offer was made to the community at large, the overwhelming majority accepted it, one or two people did not.
One in particular (LTex) was very loud and vocal about it, and made a counter offer - the counter offer would have involved (a) Doing multiple things in a way that LTex prescribed (b) Taking money from only one person, something that is (at least in my opinion) far more prone to corruption as it lends power and influence to that individual.
Faced with the choice of going with the original plan - which the community at large accepted and was happy to fund with an overwhelmingly fast response - or going with a less desirable plan that came with various terms we were not happy with we took the first - this seems to me reasonable. Roel, on behalf of the team tried to address LTex's concerns on the forum as much as reasonable, however the team cannot and will not be beholden to a small minority of the community, no decision of any importance will ever have 100% backing of everybody.

I can assure you that had the response from the *community at large* been negative and not so overwhelmingly positive, then it would have been a completely different story.

How do you as a team plan to improve that? The discussion about IPO for the iOS app is just one example, the problem is (and long time has been) bigger than that.

I'm sure we will continue to discuss as a team what we can improve and where as well as continuing to take pointers from the community at large. However, and this is important, for any decision there will always be people who do *not* get there way, and we simply cannot control how those people feel or react to this.

And don't use the open source of the wallet as an excuse for guarantee that everything will be fine, you should know better that that is a false excuse.

I know no such thing. Nobody can 'own' open source code, especially if they are not even the people working on it.
Ask Oracle how 'owning' OpenOffice or various other open source products worked out for them, the second they bought it the developers all fled, eventually out of desperation they gave OpenOffice away to Apache but still it is a has been with a completely new fork LibreOffice rising in its place.

[Svener]

@MaNI, so if you consider yourself as part of the whole team. What's your opinion about the community members that feel like they are ignored and held back by the dev team?

I cannot speak about incidences that have happened before I have joined, however quite honestly I feel that the current complaints are completely unfounded for the most part, at least from the most vocal people, there may be less vocal people who have legitimate concerns but I wouldn't know as I have not heard from them.
I think that these people are still reacting based on things that have happened in the past, and not on what is happening now, I ask these people to let go of the past and focus on the present.

In this particular instance, an offer was made to the community at large, the overwhelming majority accepted it, one or two people did not.
One in particular (LTex) was very loud and vocal about it, and made a counter offer - the counter offer would have involved (a) Doing multiple things in a way that LTex prescribed (b) Taking money from only one person, something that is (at least in my opinion) far more prone to corruption as it lends power and influence to that individual.
Faced with the choice of going with the original plan - which the community at large accepted and was happy to fund with an overwhelmingly fast response - or going with a less desirable plan that came with various terms we were not happy with we took the first - this seems to me reasonable. Roel, on behalf of the team tried to address LTex's concerns on the forum as much as reasonable, however the team cannot and will not be beholden to a small minority of the community, no decision of any importance will ever have 100% backing of everybody.

I can assure you that had the response from the *community at large* been negative and not so overwhelmingly positive, then it would have been a completely different story.

How do you as a team plan to improve that? The discussion about IPO for the iOS app is just one example, the problem is (and long time has been) bigger than that.

I'm sure we will continue to discuss as a team what we can improve and where as well as continuing to take pointers from the community at large. However, and this is important, for any decision there will always be people who do *not* get there way, and we simply cannot control how those people feel or react to this.

And don't use the open source of the wallet as an excuse for guarantee that everything will be fine, you should know better that that is a false excuse.

I know no such thing. Nobody can 'own' open source code, especially if they are not even the people working on it.
Ask Oracle how 'owning' OpenOffice or various other open source products worked out for them, the second they bought it the developers all fled, eventually out of desperation they gave OpenOffice away to Apache but still it is a has been with a completely new fork LibreOffice rising in its place.

Lets leave things here. It's pathetic people are measuring dick sizes .
Everyone has invested in this coin because they believe in the way it is run and has been running why would you want to change a good thing. Name one alt that is progressing this fast?