[ANN][KARM] Karma / ₭ / X11

[bitwho]

i don't think he did this because he dis-credits your opinion. I think he just followed the rules he set up for trello. Everyone in there will be there because they want to get involved with Karma. I don't agree with him booting you out but i do agree that if you really wanted to help you would start advising instead of mocking or validating our current path.

If you think calling into question the legal position surrounding the solicitation of an unregistered security viz Kosmost / Karmashares is "mocking" -- then I think I'm trying to help the wrong crowd.  If anything he was unable to satisfy the legal nature of the venture and in all likelihood shut it down.

[/quote]

my intention was not to you questioning this. I actually appreciated your input and is the main purpose i liked reading your post. I wished more people would have ask such question. at that time i believed everything would have been answered and solved once we used some funds to consult in regards to the LLC. The LLC was created to help karma and be %100 regulated. Problem started arising once Kosmost went ahead and registered us as legal LLC. he did that to start moving forwards and make the LLC legitimized. I think the error was to not consult with a proper layer first. when SEC started going after Bitcoin IPOS then i think Kosmost got a personal lawyer and realized it was illegal and shut it down. Being under his name and all. This is my opinion. I dont know perfectly well as things happened so fast.

If you think ask if a "dice game" is our Karma wants to be known as?  Is that the "mocking" you speak of?

As you can see, we are picking up the pieces from those who abandoned us. We are in no shape to glow and say here are our goals so of course it is not helpful when you make post pointing this out. We know this. there is no need to compare and contrast us with Top 500 companies.

I'm only comparing Karmacoin go forward needs to what ANY small business owner knows.  This is why having a neutral third party is in your better interests...

The dice game was not something i was referring to. It was how you portrait us not having clear goals and you as an outsider did not find anything appealing to become and investor. While that is true, it is something we haven't had a chance to work on yet. We are taking the time to allow more people to get involved before we make crucial decision. When you pointed this out you came off as mocking us for not trying to move forward and focusing on the wrong subjects.

you're more then welcome to help us. If you can share your experience and give us some pointers. the community is not booting you. East just removed access to trello just like he is doing to other who joined and are not helping but questioning, complaining or downplaying our intentions. Trello is not a cult group, but it will be treated harsher then how we did it before. We allowed anyone to join and not do anything.

If you want to help you should stick around here and share your thoughts on how we can do stuff. perhaps even show us how to do them.

You are also more them welcome to do what you wanted with karma as your side project. you never shared your thoughts but i think you wanted to push for karma as a donation project. nothing is stopping you to pursue this as a side project.

Clearly at this time karma lost few dedicated members and gained some trolls. i am sure we all agree that you brought some positive thinking and would love to see you staying active here.

hope you understand that trello move , while harsh was only made to keep things focused. when you show you are getting involved i am sure east will add you promptly to the board. ( he chosed you in his group selections before)

YES and if you cannot handle people "questioning" then you're clearly not cut out for collaboration.

Trust me when I say that I don't take ANYTHING here personally.  For me this is about finding and growing pro-social crypto projects that have the potential to add value and improve things globally.

Best of luck to all of you!

-dvd

[/quote]

again. i am not discouraging you from asking question , just make them actual question and not belittle our efforts. if we are doing things the slower way and you believe we can do them better and faster then show us how. All we are trying right now it to glue back the pieces we got left after this dark few weeks. We are not rushing to make statements that are not easily reached anymore. At this time we are slowly getting back the people who want to continue helping. last time our fault was that we thought we could do things with 13-15 people This time we are trying to get everyone on board. It will be a unified effort or else. We are still giving time for more people to get involved.

we are not declining collaboration we urge them. But we also need to see actions and not linger to people who only talk.

i will continue to say that your question , opinions and expertise are still welcomed. Not sure what kind of answer you need from me or anyone else to see that we are not trying to turn down anyone who is willing to help.

-Who

[1714125840]

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[1714125840]

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[bitwho]

trello is just a divide and conquer-move. kindly stay on bitcointalk and maybe consider meeting up on irc.

Trello is blackboard and is being used to organize task. no one is being brainwashed there. jesus man. did you even bother to sign up and read it?

a note for everyone:

there really is no one who "owns" karmacoin nor karma. there can be many teams. no one needs anyone's blessing to create content for karma(coin).

[/quote]
+1

Everyone is more then welcomed to create content for karma. No one can stop you. And if the community find your project to be a value then they will have a saying in being added to the OP and other social media and become recognized as officials projects.

[bitwho]

Forget the past.

With trello, KARMA TEAM=COMMUNITY, everyone that wants to help is a part of the team now. Everyone who helps, will be "in the loop"

By the community, for the community.

GOOD NEWS, our KARMA API will be available soon(max of 3 weeks),

then we will run tests before finally making the access, public. Our bounty for that, is 0.32 BTC Donation address---->>>>  12RVXoccgLy8o4GyeUULRmYhaaEL2emvQD
Present Fund Balance is: 0.05340089, we only need at least 36 persons to send in 0.0075BTC to complete the needed amount

With KARMA API, other developers will be able to easily integrate KARMA into their SITES, GAMES and OTHER APPS, making Karma adoption easier, it will also take us a step closer to one of our aim to bring KARMA to those "who need it most".

Please help us build some useful services for karma. It has to be a unified effort.

[kosmost]

What happens with Lill (Web Search)?

Lil was sold , several dumps  occurred too, goodbye cruel world, Tahiti here I come !

Lill was not sold. Market activity has/had nothing to do with Lill. Please get your 'facts' straight before relaying them to others. Should you have specific questions please let us know.

[kosmost]

my intention was not to you questioning this. I actually appreciated your input and is the main purpose i liked reading your post. I wished more people would have ask such question. at that time i believed everything would have been answered and solved once we used some funds to consult in regards to the LLC. The LLC was created to help karma and be %100 regulated. Problem started arising once Kosmost went ahead and registered us as legal LLC. he did that to start moving forwards and make the LLC legitimized. I think the error was to not consult with a proper layer first. when SEC started going after Bitcoin IPOS then i think Kosmost got a personal lawyer and realized it was illegal and shut it down. Being under his name and all. This is my opinion. I dont know perfectly well as things happened so fast.

to clarify your above statement, I consulted with both a lawyer and a tax attorney before the LLC was formed.

However, the rules of the game don't stay the same. Once the IRS guidance came out and there was additional attention brought to Bitcoin by the SEC we began to ask different kinds of questions.

It may be more productive to discuss things in Karma's future, so I won't be answering many questions about Karmashares that have already been answered before.

[Maurizio]

What happens with Lill (Web Search)?

Lil was sold , several dumps  occurred too, goodbye cruel world, Tahiti here I come !

Lill was not sold. Market activity has/had nothing to do with Lill. Please get your 'facts' straight before relaying them to others. Should you have specific questions please let us know.

Why is Lill.com not online anymore?
I hope this question is specific enough.

[p4r4m0un7]

What happens with Lill (Web Search)?

Lil was sold , several dumps  occurred too, goodbye cruel world, Tahiti here I come !

Lill was not sold. Market activity has/had nothing to do with Lill. Please get your 'facts' straight before relaying them to others. Should you have specific questions please let us know.

Why is Lill.com not online anymore?
I hope this question is specific enough.

Why should it be? Is lill some kind of your property? What gives you the right to pretend anything about it? On what basis are you demanding anything at all? Are you alone with yourself or you have somebody else in the head with you? Do you think that your doctor prescribed you a wrong recipe and this is why you can not come to yourself? Are those questions specific enough?

[p4r4m0un7]

I am on impossible place, so I will make this quick, cause I don`t know when the con will drop. LoL  

bassieflup, what?!? Google translate doesn`t work for you very well, does it... We are all done with so many threads about different coins produced by dumb suckers like you and their employers. I am doing the same as you - sell at the peak of the price and buy slow when the price is down. And now is perfect time to rebuild Karma wallet. If you were smart, you would know it. But I am not jerking around and spreading FUD. These times are over in crypto. There are smarter people here now. So, good bye, you jerk!

TheLittleDuke - I see you like quotes, so this is especially for you. IF YOU DON`T KNOW WHERE YOU ARE AND WHERE TO GO, COME TO YOURSELF. Do you know how many heavy guys like you came here to give advise on this and that, and at the end somebody else did the job. If you think you are capable to maintain a community like Karma, you are way over your head. Maybe you should change your dealer, cause what you take is seriously damaging your brain. I hope kosmost will not make the mistake to give the coin to somebody as slow as you. Cause if he do it, Karma will succeed. In 30 years..... Meanwhile you can continue to do nothing here and pretending for many things, without giving anything and just waiting to take advantage of the situation.

I hope also kosmost will not make the mistake to give Karma to mroyusa. At the first moment I thought that he is good entry point, but now I see he is only exit point. We must be crazy to expect dedication from somebody, who is involved with God knows how many coins. So this is the time to again give all credits to kosmost, who is always open minded and doesn`t take his decisions based on intuition. The way he think is so cold and efficient that is beyond comprehension. If it was up to me, I would gave Karma until now to some of these 2 guys. But Kos is doing it again the proper way. This is why few or even no one can understand him at all the time.

For only a week I see that East and bitwho reorganized and did so many things (I don`t know exactly how many, cause I am not capable to read all). They are amazing and I don`t find no one else being capable as them. I admire them and I am ashamed that I can`t help them.

Nothing changed for Karma since yesterday. It is still the single greatest coin out there. Time to buy again! I am sorry for all who don`t understand it. Actually, I petty them. You should continue to work in grocery. Crypto investments are not for you.

                   The words you use, say all about you so who is take you serious man.
                   the most of people here use normal words, and not need to insulting people to feel there self better then somebody else.

                  insulting people is a way of weakness

                   And about my english, i can speak dutch to.
                   But i guess you are not that smart, that you understand that.
                   
                   I feel sorry for your frustration, and if i can help in some way let me know.

                   For everybody is a answer, also for you my friend.

                   understand that this replay, is a one time replay because its already to much energy for you.

Ohh, now you see. It is not very good when somebody is trolling at you. Is it? And it is only me with one post. And you are doing nothing for Karma. Now sit down and try to understand how kosmost, easteagle and bitwho are feeling after hundreds of insulting and clearly stupid posts. And these posts come from people with not a single fact on the table.

P.S. I speak Serbian, Macedonian, Russian and Turkish. English is also not my birth language. Perhaps you should go and try to mess with somebody else.

[learminer]

What happens with Lill (Web Search)?

Lil was sold , several dumps  occurred too, goodbye cruel world, Tahiti here I come !

Lill was not sold. Market activity has/had nothing to do with Lill. Please get your 'facts' straight before relaying them to others. Should you have specific questions please let us know.

Why is Lill.com not online anymore?
I hope this question is specific enough.

The short answer was given: server costs were too high to keep it running (I think kos said 500$/month). The real question is what happens to Lill in the future. Will it reappear and development commence at some point (as a Karma related project)?

A lot of us grew attached to it over the months, but the thing is: Lill belongs to kosmost and he can do whatever he wants with it. If he wants to share his plans with us - great! If not its none of our business...

[toeshe]

what does FACT mean? does a lie with backer mean a fact?

after the fact what is a karma shareholder mean. is a karma shareholder smart or was it not so smart?

theres like 10pages how to split profits, are these all facts?

karma shareholders can vote ,is this a fact, how do i research this?

when i came here lill was worth over 6million, then it was 2 million. i can research myself but at a loss to find any facts?

can anyone help me here with fact finding?

I truly wanta help. dont know what to say. way more bashers here than needs be. both sides. it seems split in two both claiming rightous

karma IS a good word... phrase "what have you done for karma"...that is a sin... online i guess i take it...in person to even say that is taboo.

one of the main lacks of this coin is FACTS.when folks ask for facts its all about insults always always

how can one help on such shakeee ground

these bad things should be addressed......why attack history


Im not a investor just a miner and trader wishin to help

im not into helpin the deval

[infested999]

what does FACT mean? does a lie with backer mean a fact?

after the fact what is a karma shareholder mean. is a karma shareholder smart or was it not so smart?

theres like 10pages how to split profits, are these all facts?

karma shareholders can vote ,is this a fact, how do i research this?

when i came here lill was worth over 6million, then it was 2 million. i can research myself but at a loss to find any facts?

can anyone help me here with fact finding?

I truly wanta help. dont know what to say. way more bashers here than needs be. both sides. it seems split in two both claiming rightous

karma IS a good word... phrase "what have you done for karma"...that is a sin... online i guess i take it...in person to even say that is taboo.

one of the main lacks of this coin is FACTS.when folks ask for facts its all about insults always always

how can one help on such shakeee ground

these bad things should be addressed......why attack history


Im not a investor just a miner and trader wishin to help

im not into helpin the deval

Those are not facts. How to split profits is decided by the shareholders based on what they think is fair. I couldn't understand the rest of your post.

[kosmost]

The short answer was given: server costs were too high to keep it running (I think kos said 500$/month). The real question is what happens to Lill in the future. Will it reappear and development commence at some point (as a Karma related project)?

A lot of us grew attached to it over the months, but the thing is: Lill belongs to kosmost and he can do whatever he wants with it. If he wants to share his plans with us - great! If not its none of our business...

I would not have guessed that it would be more difficult to get people interested in keeping fundamental services for Karma running than it would be to get people interested in keeping lill going.

Right now there are no plans for lill. It is shelved indefinitely.

[kosmost]

I feel like Karmashares is the rich uncle who just died and most of the family is wasting time over why there was nothing in the will for them.

Indeed, we're wasting a tremendous amount of time focusing on things that aren't related to adding any value for Karma.

It was 7 days ago that I announced Karmashares was shutting down, 6 days ago I was essentially banned from participating in team chats and asked to remove myself as moderator of the KarmaTeam subreddit, and 5 days ago that I announced I will no longer lead Karma

But it would seem that I have learned 4 things over the past week

1) Karma has a great name

2) No one on the team is interested in keeping core services running (not even responding to the post)

3) We continue to 'volunteer' ourselves as a community, but there is very little actual productivity

4) Despite the many complaints about shutting down Karmashares there was not a single viable alternative offered

We've squandered a lot of the extra attention that we've received over the past couple of weeks arguing over insignificant details.

Out of these ashes a new community will arise, hopefully, of people who actually need Karma right now.

[TheLittleDuke]

I feel like Karmashares is the rich uncle who just died and most of the family is wasting time over why there was nothing in the will for them.

Indeed, we're wasting a tremendous amount of time focusing on things that aren't related to adding any value for Karma.

It was 7 days ago that I announced Karmashares was shutting down, 6 days ago I was essentially banned from participating in team chats and asked to remove myself as moderator of the KarmaTeam subreddit, and 5 days ago that I announced I will no longer lead Karma

But it would seem that I have learned 4 things over the past week

1) Karma has a great name

2) No one on the team is interested in keeping core services running (not even responding to the post)

3) We continue to 'volunteer' ourselves as a community, but there is very little actual productivity

4) Despite the many complaints about shutting down Karmashares there was not a single viable alternative offered

We've squandered a lot of the extra attention that we've received over the past couple of weeks arguing over insignificant details.

Out of these ashes a new community will arise, hopefully, of people who actually need Karma right now.

1. Agreed

2. I made an offer (even sent you a note privately about buying the Trademark)

3. Agreed -- but in the vacuum of leadership and direction I think its understandable

4. Again, I made an offer -- and ALSO got kicked out of the Trello board for being an dispassionate neutral third-party.

So KOSMOST -- if you own the Trademark -- ping me -- I'm interested in acquiring it and re-locating all services onto our cloud infrastructure.

-dvd

[Alphi]

I feel like Karmashares is the rich uncle who just died and most of the family is wasting time over why there was nothing in the will for them.

Indeed, we're wasting a tremendous amount of time focusing on things that aren't related to adding any value for Karma.

It was 7 days ago that I announced Karmashares was shutting down, 6 days ago I was essentially banned from participating in team chats and asked to remove myself as moderator of the KarmaTeam subreddit, and 5 days ago that I announced I will no longer lead Karma

But it would seem that I have learned 4 things over the past week

1) Karma has a great name

2) No one on the team is interested in keeping core services running (not even responding to the post)

3) We continue to 'volunteer' ourselves as a community, but there is very little actual productivity

4) Despite the many complaints about shutting down Karmashares there was not a single viable alternative offered

We've squandered a lot of the extra attention that we've received over the past couple of weeks arguing over insignificant details.

Out of these ashes a new community will arise, hopefully, of people who actually need Karma right now.

1. Agreed

2. I made an offer (even sent you a note privately about buying the Trademark)

3. Agreed -- but in the vacuum of leadership and direction I think its understandable

4. Again, I made an offer -- and ALSO got kicked out of the Trello board for being an dispassionate neutral third-party.

So KOSMOST -- if you own the Trademark -- ping me -- I'm interested in acquiring it and re-locating all services onto our cloud infrastructure.

-dvd

can I get some clarification here?...

Karma is an open source community the name and logo were created by the community.

Karmashares was a private company managed and run by Kosmost.

so which trademarks are we talking about?

if Kosmost wants to sell Karmashares assets including trademarks then that's up to him and his investors. Nobody except for the people that invested directly in Karmashares has any right at all to complain to Kosmost for what he does there.

if anyone wants to buy or sell Karma assets (including trademarks and source code etc of the coin itself).. I, as a member of the community, would take great exception to this and so would the law considering there is enough prior art to clearly show that these are owned by the community and not any individual or organisation.

[Alphi]

when i came here lill was worth over 6million, then it was 2 million. i can research myself but at a loss to find any facts?

I'm not a investor just a miner and trader wishin to help

I think you just said it all.. if you didn't invest in Karmashares then you really don't have much ground to stand on for complaining.
yes I know that people were supposed to be given free Karmashares for the coins they held but unless they actually redeemed their Karmashares then they weren't a Karmashares LLC member at the time that Karmashares was wound up. So there really isn't much point in digging up the facts about the unsuccessful sale of LIL.com which was owned by Karmashares LLC.

this is not directed at you specifically but, I really don't understand how people can complain about not getting something they would have been given for free by a company that no longer exists..
that's why its called a Limited liability company (LLC).. because if it collapses then any debts remaining do not get transferred to the owners of the company (ie the LLC members).

[toeshe]

so in layman terms ITS A SCAM

[Alphi]

so in layman terms ITS A SCAM

in layman's terms.. unless you actually owned Karmashares, you should really just stop going in about it, because contrary to what you say about wanting to help.. you really aren't helping anyone by filling up the thread with pointless posts about the past.

If you did own Karmashares then feel free to consult a lawyer or complain to kosmost directly.

[toeshe]

my question was it a smart deal? yes or no?

[kosmost]

So KOSMOST -- if you own the Trademark -- ping me -- I'm interested in acquiring it and re-locating all services onto our cloud infrastructure.

-dvd

Agreed.

And I have provided enough time for all parties to respond. It's been about 7+ days now.

Due to the current situation and need for proper leadership, all of the Karma-related assets under my control will be transferred accordingly.

As everyone knows, Karma is an open source project. Anyone is welcome to work on it and post here, whether or not anyone is subscribed to your particular implementation of the Karma concept.

But Bitcointalk should not be the extent of Karma development. I would even argue that these kinds of conversations are unproductive and not how to move Karma forward.

Putting a proper organization with professional guidance and leadership behind Karma is probably the best thing we could do right now.

As I will from now be a silent Karma community member I have decided to transfer these marks and services as I see fit, to the parties that have demonstrated the most respect and vision for Karma's core values.

yes, "doing good is good" but let's not forget to 'do good' for Karma, too. There's been enough drama, infighting, and politics to write a book. Let's entrust people who are used to managing such growing pains in a more altruistic way (non-profits) to lead Karma to somewhere truly great. I personally would feel much better knowing that there is a solid organization with a history of 'doing good' things behind Karma.

I hoped that, although I have not done things perfectly, I have been altruistic enough in my work for Karma to demonstrate some of its core values. Although being punished for sacrifices of time, money, and welfare is kind of a farce, we would all do well to put all our egos in one basket and put it on the side and do what is best for Karma's future.

It is the only reasonable course of action at this time.

@TheLittleDuke - by the way, can you please identify your username on the Karma forums? - thanks