[ANN][KARM] Karma / ₭ / X11

[kosmost]

can I get some clarification here?...

Karma is an open source community the name and logo were created by the community.

Karmashares was a private company managed and run by Kosmost.

so which trademarks are we talking about?

if Kosmost wants to sell Karmashares assets including trademarks then that's up to him and his investors. Nobody except for the people that invested directly in Karmashares has any right at all to complain to Kosmost for what he does there.

if anyone wants to buy or sell Karma assets (including trademarks and source code etc of the coin itself).. I, as a member of the community, would take great exception to this and so would the law considering there is enough prior art to clearly show that these are owned by the community and not any individual or organisation.

To clarify, no Karmashares-related products or services are for sale or have been sold.

The Karma and Karmacoin logos are technically owned by myself (as I started the contest and paid for it). Not that it makes much difference, but I was the one who pushed for the name change to "Karma", although of course quite a few of us will always know us as Karmacoin

Karma and Karmacoin trademarks, in the digital currency classification, are technically owned by myself (as I registered it and paid for it). The idea is to provide exclusive use of these names to the Karma cryptocurrency community (and protection against any other parties wishing to use these names). I do not see myself as the owner but caretaker of these marks.

Karma is open source. No one owns the Karma source code.

Karmacoin.me is a domain that I registered (as are KarmaFund.me and others)

[1714152431]

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[1714152431]

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[1714152431]

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[kosmost]

The Minnesota non-profit Strength in Numbers Foundation (filing for federal 501.3c status) may be interested in acquiring and hosting all Karma related servers and services as well as funding ongoing development of the coinbase.

Including paying for the transfer of the copyright assuming the current holder can provide a .pdf of the filing approval et a from the USPTO to be reviewed and certified as valid by our corporate attorney.

PM me if interested...

David V Duccini
Executive Director
Strength in Numbers Foundation

Is there a website for Strength in Numbers Foundation?

We will, of course, need to verify legitimacy of entity and interest but this shouldn't be an issue.

Thank you for putting this offer forward. It is sincerely appreciated.

[Alexandrake]

kosmost is showing how much he cared for people working for KARMA.

Deciding everything all by himself.

If you go on with that idea of passing everything to littleduke, you will be doing a lot of damage again to the effort of those who are trying to save this.

Well, I know they must have hurt your pride. And for that every karma believers should suffer right?

You said all IPOCOS done under the name of karmashare is owned by karmashare and that karmashare decisions are made by shareholders. Yet you did all the decisions and executed them!
LILL.com although made by you belongs to karmashare, KARMA logo although paid and initiated by you is owned by the community.

You very well know all these things.

Now you are trying to make another stunt. You are deciding and executing all BY YOURSELF.

[Alphi]

To clarify, no Karmashares-related products or services are for sale or have been sold.

The Karma and Karmacoin logos are technically owned by myself (as I started the contest and paid for it). Not that it makes much difference, but I was the one who pushed for the name change to "Karma", although of course quite a few of us will always know us as Karmacoin

Karma and Karmacoin trademarks, in the digital currency classification, are technically owned by myself (as I registered it and paid for it). The idea is to provide exclusive use of these names to the Karma cryptocurrency community (and protection against any other parties wishing to use these names). I do not see myself as the owner but caretaker of these marks.

Karma is open source. No one owns the Karma source code.

Karmacoin.me is a domain that I registered (as are KarmaFund.me and others)

kosmost you may have organised the contest and may have paid the lion share of the reward but the contest was actually for an open source logo and the logo itself was produced by community member to be used in and incorporated into open source software.
so that makes you the benefactor not rights holder. you yourself said so many times that you were donating your time to help the community. you might be annoyed with those people who trolled you but you cannot undo the words you said and the donations you made to the community.

Do what you want with Karmashares but don't try to sell or buy Karma rights because you wont get far trying to enforce those rights on an open source community.

people who held karmashares also had "rights" which may be legally en-forcible but is a different minefield...

[Alexandrake]

To clarify, no Karmashares-related products or services are for sale or have been sold.

The Karma and Karmacoin logos are technically owned by myself (as I started the contest and paid for it). Not that it makes much difference, but I was the one who pushed for the name change to "Karma", although of course quite a few of us will always know us as Karmacoin

Karma and Karmacoin trademarks, in the digital currency classification, are technically owned by myself (as I registered it and paid for it). The idea is to provide exclusive use of these names to the Karma cryptocurrency community (and protection against any other parties wishing to use these names). I do not see myself as the owner but caretaker of these marks.

Karma is open source. No one owns the Karma source code.

Karmacoin.me is a domain that I registered (as are KarmaFund.me and others)

kosmost you may have organised the contest and may have paid the lion share of the reward but the contest was actually for an open source logo which was incorporated into open source software.
so you are the benefactor not rights holder.
as I said it doesn't matter if you registered a Karma trade mark or not there is enough prior art and documentation to prove that it was done for, and given to an open source project and as you so rightly put it you even see yourself as the caretaker not the owner.

Do what you want with Karmashares but don't try to sell or buy Karma rights because you wont get far trying to enforce those rights on an open source community.

+1

[easteagle13]

Alphi can I invite you to trello?

[Alphi]

Alphi can I invite you to trello?

sure.. im a little busy atm... thats why I havent been talking too much.. also bcos generally im not interested in fighting and arguing but I am always for this community no matter who is leading it or contributing towards its growth.

[easteagle13]

Alphi can I invite you to trello?

sure.. im a little busy atm... thats why I havent been talking too much.. also bcos generally im not interested in fighting and arguing but I am always for this community no matter who is leading it or contributing towards its growth.

thanks you can rest assured that no arguing is happening in trello. All are being done in voluntary way. Everyone who will do something for KARMA will be admitted too.

[easteagle13]

kosmost kindly change our roles in Karma Facebook page please.

[Alphi]

Alphi can I invite you to trello?

sure.. im a little busy atm... thats why I havent been talking too much.. also bcos generally im not interested in fighting and arguing but I am always for this community no matter who is leading it or contributing towards its growth.

thanks you can rest assured that no arguing is happening in trello. All are being done in voluntary way. Everyone who will do something for KARMA will be admitted too.

I am on trello now.. as the one and only Alphi

[easteagle13]

Alphi can I invite you to trello?

sure.. im a little busy atm... thats why I havent been talking too much.. also bcos generally im not interested in fighting and arguing but I am always for this community no matter who is leading it or contributing towards its growth.

thanks you can rest assured that no arguing is happening in trello. All are being done in voluntary way. Everyone who will do something for KARMA will be admitted too.

I am on trello now.. as the one and only Alphi

^_^ welcome my friend! It's a rare opportunity to own a unique name in trello! Someone joined and he have to be nick7! Added you to the devs group, you can request to be added to any group if you want to help on any field.

[bitwho]

So KOSMOST -- if you own the Trademark -- ping me -- I'm interested in acquiring it and re-locating all services onto our cloud infrastructure.

-dvd

Agreed.

And I have provided enough time for all parties to respond. It's been about 7+ days now.

Due to the current situation and need for proper leadership, all of the Karma-related assets under my control will be transferred accordingly.

As everyone knows, Karma is an open source project. Anyone is welcome to work on it and post here, whether or not anyone is subscribed to your particular implementation of the Karma concept.

But Bitcointalk should not be the extent of Karma development. I would even argue that these kinds of conversations are unproductive and not how to move Karma forward.

Putting a proper organization with professional guidance and leadership behind Karma is probably the best thing we could do right now.

As I will from now be a silent Karma community member I have decided to transfer these marks and services as I see fit, to the parties that have demonstrated the most respect and vision for Karma's core values.

yes, "doing good is good" but let's not forget to 'do good' for Karma, too. There's been enough drama, infighting, and politics to write a book. Let's entrust people who are used to managing such growing pains in a more altruistic way (non-profits) to lead Karma to somewhere truly great. I personally would feel much better knowing that there is a solid organization with a history of 'doing good' things behind Karma.

I hoped that, although I have not done things perfectly, I have been altruistic enough in my work for Karma to demonstrate some of its core values. Although being punished for sacrifices of time, money, and welfare is kind of a farce, we would all do well to put all our egos in one basket and put it on the side and do what is best for Karma's future.

It is the only reasonable course of action at this time.

@TheLittleDuke - by the way, can you please identify your username on the Karma forums? - thanks

Dear Kosmost:

it has not been seven days with out doing nothing. if you want to point at something point at yourself. After you dropped the ball on us , your coming here again making sole decision for karma. it has been seven days , yes. But it has not been seven days that we been doing nothing. there has been post in here, in reddit , in the forum and in facebook. there so little we can do. but unlike you, we are trying to spread the word and find as many options as we have to choose the right candidate.

Out of this time, we have had only three people step up. Pr4mount , mroyusa and little duke. Pr4mount was first but then he told us he just got a new job and he is busy at them moment. mryusa has been a helpful and loyal to facebook community of karma. Little duke is a new member

Not sure were you get off claiming its been 7 days with no response where i personally contacted you and shared my thoughts on our options. you're always fast to point out some stuff but lack the never to talk about your short commings.

Might i remind you that you dropped the ball on us and caused some major drama. While all the services you sprout up online for all the karma community to use was welcomed , they were done as "gift" from you for us to use. In no way did you claim legal right to it and we used them because we believed they all belonged to us. It is not only you who did stuff it was also the people of this community who used them and helped them become the important part of our coin.

You can not make such decision anymore. Even now your still trying to execute sole decision on behalf of karma. be not mistaken. those decision are not on behalf of karma but they are you own decision.

yes you are in control of them now and you can do what you wish with them as we can not stop you. But if your looking to make the right decision for karma then you either shut them down or help us find the right candidate for them.

If i was able to take them over i would have done it in an instance. Unfortunately i can not. i am uncapable as they go over my head. Neither can East or Ryan at this time. We been asking left and right.

there two reddit post and a forum thread , post in here and facebook threads. No one has stepped up to take them over except for the parties i mentioned above.

It seems like you patience ran short, again , and you would give up all the karma's hard work to the person replying to you first. Question is how much is your patience worth to karma?  7 days?

LittleDuke was welcomed by me. I was happy to see his offer. But at the same time there is tons of question he need to answer to the community before i and hopefully the rest of the community agrees he a good contender. Are you that comfortable to make a decision all by yourself to hand them over to him?
He was offered to contact us and share his vision and reason why he should take them over. There is a subtle agenda in his messages. we will need to clear that out. We would require some openness from him to share with all of us what he will do once he has these services. Also we would need him to agree , that just like you, he will also be a "holder" of these services and when times comes he will need to hand them over at the community request.

 the whole point of these services is to be owned and operated by the community. anyone is more then welcomed to continue this service but they will have to go through some proper screening from us and the community. Especially some one with as little karma activity as LittleDuke.

Please tell us how long is your patience worth to the community you spend months trying to help and let us decided who the right candidate is.

[kosmost]

To clarify, no Karmashares-related products or services are for sale or have been sold.

The Karma and Karmacoin logos are technically owned by myself (as I started the contest and paid for it). Not that it makes much difference, but I was the one who pushed for the name change to "Karma", although of course quite a few of us will always know us as Karmacoin

Karma and Karmacoin trademarks, in the digital currency classification, are technically owned by myself (as I registered it and paid for it). The idea is to provide exclusive use of these names to the Karma cryptocurrency community (and protection against any other parties wishing to use these names). I do not see myself as the owner but caretaker of these marks.

Karma is open source. No one owns the Karma source code.

Karmacoin.me is a domain that I registered (as are KarmaFund.me and others)

kosmost you may have organised the contest and may have paid the lion share of the reward but the contest was actually for an open source logo and the logo itself was produced by community member to be used in and incorporated into open source software.
so that makes you the benefactor not rights holder. you yourself said so many times that you were donating your time to help the community. you might be annoyed with those people who trolled you but you cannot undo the words you said and the donations you made to the community.

Do what you want with Karmashares but don't try to sell or buy Karma rights because you wont get far trying to enforce those rights on an open source community.

people who held karmashares also had "rights" which may be legally en-forcible but is a different minefield...

Apologies, but you really don't know what you're talking about in the above post. Perhaps another post will be more accurate.

You are completely mistaken when you write, "...open source logo and the logo itself was produced by community member"

[kosmost]

Did I miss the post where a member of the team responded to my first call for a member of the team to take over the Karma services under my control?

How about the second post?

Maybe the third?

No..  Those posts were all willingly ignored. Not a single peep, even though we continued to read them and decided not to respond.

That's the thing. By the time people feel bad about ignoring something so important, it's too late.

It is my responsibility to take care of the things I have myself bought and paid for in service of Karma. I will continue to be in service to Karma by doing what I feel is right. (Not by listening to a couple of outspoken posters who probably don't give a rat's bottom about Karma when it comes down to brass tacks, and somehow think they are speaking for the 99% of the community that doesn't post)

We cannot say that I do not listen when I have already put out more than 1 request for a response. Anyone visiting these threads can see it plainly. I have nothing else to say about the matter.

Feel bad about not responding, after the fact? Please, build a time machine.

You are welcome to continue with Trello or whatever else you've set up. No one is stopping you, and it may benefit Karma in some way. It's good to have balance. But please don't be upset because I 1) decided to take action back then, when no one else would; and 2) I am deciding to take action now, when no one else will

[kosmost]

It's almost like some of us prefer to argue with logic and reason.

We are the same people who could not offer a single alternative to closing Karmashares, after 1 week of contemplation and bitching and moaning about it: http://karmashares.com/forums/index.php/topic,618.0.html

"If you don't have anything better, then..."

Really, we should be embarrassed by this irrational behaviour. But unfortunately we are not, and somehow think it's production to continue.

it's time for this nonsense to stop.

[bitwho]

Did I miss the post where a member of the team responded to my first call for a member of the team to take over the Karma services under my control?

How about the second post?

Maybe the third?

No..  Those posts were all willingly ignored. Not a single peep, even though we continued to read them and decided not to respond.

That's the thing. By the time people feel bad about ignoring something so important, it's too late.

It is my responsibility to take care of the things I have myself bought and paid for in service of Karma. I will continue to be in service to Karma by doing what I feel is right. (Not by listening to a couple of outspoken posters who probably don't give a rat's bottom about Karma when it comes down to brass tacks, and somehow think they are speaking for the 99% of the community that doesn't post)

We cannot say that I do not listen when I have already put out more than 1 request for a response. Anyone visiting these threads can see it plainly. I have nothing else to say about the matter.

Feel bad about not responding, after the fact? Please, build a time machine.

You are welcome to continue with Trello or whatever else you've set up. No one is stopping you, and it may benefit Karma in some way. It's good to have balance. But please don't be upset because I 1) decided to take action back then, when no one else would; and 2) I am deciding to take action now, when no one else will

this is how the community deals with our problems. you by now should be familiar with it.

you're not the only one asking questions to them. East recently asked them to donate for API services. He was able to find some one who will do it much cheaper. x10 times cheaper. yet there are few coins sent. by your analogy then East should scrap it off and stop asking them to help.

this is is our community. accept it. They will not respond in timely matter. Now the LLC you can say you feared the SECs knocking on you doors but these other services. How much are they worth the wait?

[Alphi]

according to Kosmost...Karmashares LLC and its assets are owned by the community.
now can you see some people get angry when you start liquidating things without community consultation?

it is not logical and perhaps not even lawful to assume that just because peoples coins were given back that they are no longer owners of the business.

I read all but do not understand all ^^ .

When do you sell coin to have profit in poc?

Thanks for your patience regarding these questions. PoC is designed to provide coin-holders with a share of profits while also providing a means to get to the point where we're making profits.

If I understand your question, we are not selling coins. We are allowing users to become owners of the business by either exchanging coins or keeping a certain number of coins in their wallet for 30 days or more.

This helps to "secure the economy" of Karmacoin so that we can do bigger and better things. A strong economy makes everything else stronger, including the network.

What is going on if the coin value go down and not up?

If the coin value goes down you still would have the same % of ownership.

The value of the coin is not tied to the value of Karmashares. It would also not affect your profit percentage.

More than likely, the value of Karmacoin would go up because we are making the economy stronger, building a real business, limiting the number of coins for sale on the market, and making the coin more desirable. And that's just a start.

If i invest 10 000 000 in share and have maybe 1% of the share, what when more and more user participate in the system? my 1% will be 0.9% 0.8% and after some time 0.1% maybe?

If you sold the coin to have some profit what going on if the people who buy it dont participate in karma share and dont reinvest?

You will exchange coins for points, and that number will not change. The number of points you have will determine what percentage of the company you will get (and percentage of profits).

The best time to exchange coins is now, during this week (Quantum period 1). This is because you will get the most points for your coins, at a 10x multiple. Next week it will be 5x.

However, your share of the company will be determined on May 11 after the "bonus" (or, Quantum) period ends. So your share of the company will change as more points are claimed by others.

If you sold the coin to have some profit what going on if the people who buy it dont participate in karma share and dont reinvest?

If you are an owner in Karmashares you are not expected to participate. (It is common for only 1-2% of a community to be active.) However, these people will still own a percentage and have a claim on profits.

If you invest and then do nothing it is fine.

I hope my answers to your questions are ok. Please let me know if there's something else that can be clarified and I will try my best to respond. I'll also post your questions to the subreddit so other people can benefit from your good questions. Thanks for asking!

[Alphi]

Apologies, but you really don't know what you're talking about in the above post. Perhaps another post will be more accurate.

You are completely mistaken when you write, "...open source logo and the logo itself was produced by community member"

maybe this will jog your memory...

On March 17th I will announce 20 BTCs worth of bounties.

Whoa... 20 BTCs?
Yes, that's right. But we need your help  

I personally with be donating about 5.5 BTCs for bounties. I will ask for the community's help funding the remainder. You can either 1) sponsor a bounty in your own name and I will add you to the post on Reddit; or 2) we'll find a way to aggregate your contribution with others.

If #1 is your option then you can choose to offer KARM or BTC.

Why are we doing this?
One of the strongest ideas of Karmacoin, I think, is the ability to provide incentive for people to do go and reward those who have done something good.

But before we get there, we need to provide our own incentives. We need Karmacoin services right now. What better way to find out how our own system will work than to use something like it in our development to foster a sense of community and to get things done at the same time?

Here is a partial list of projects for which bounties can be offered:

• YouTube/Google+ tipbot
• web wallet for the casual user
• QT wallet UI redesign
• QT wallet programming to incorporate redesign
• online wallet generator
• web donation widget for any website
• functional android wallet
• subreddit header with dynamic price and volume, like Vertcoin or Potcoin
• start 1-page Wiki of at least 500 words on the subreddit
• a good game

Bounties will only be paid upon the successful completion of the project. This means whoever finishes it first gets the bounty. Each task is worth something different. Some may have a small bounty (like the 1-page wiki), just to get it started and done quickly so that people know we're serious.

What do you need from me now?
Just your ideas. Then on March 17th you can start donating for the bounties or sponsoring a bounty of your own. I'll post the same to the r/karmacoinproject thread so those that have access to it can help to spec out some of the requirements for tasks.

Why BTC and not Karmacoin?
If we offer BTC then we're opening up the contest to everyone. Many developers don't want to work for a coin for only payment in that coin.  Having the prize in BTC opens up the contest to more claimaints and provides a seemingly predictable bounty value.

It's too much!
Let's think about this from an economic perspective. Let's say you really believe in Karmacoin and have accumulated about 1 BTC's worth of it over the past few weeks. You can sit and watch it hover somewhere under 5 satoshis for a while, if we don't continue developing Karmacoin. But, if you add, say 0.1 BTC to the bounties and we end up with enough to do lots of great things your coins will be worth a whole lot more.

If we do the above for ~20 BTCs, the value of your coins could increase 10-20x over the next 2 months because Karmacoin is becoming tremendously awesome and useful. Your 0.1 BTC donation has helped to increase the value of your coins, now worth 10-20 BTC each. A good investment, indeed.

Think about it for a few days and then you'll know how much to donate/sponsor.

Why don't we get community talent to do it?
When people have incentive to do something then it is done with greater attention, and much faster than if they had only recognition for their work. It would be better if that wasn't the world we live in but I suppose we've been conditioned that way. We all need a little push sometimes. Even developed coin communities have trouble finishing a software task in good time. We can pool our resources together in order to substantially increase the value of our community and coin and get more things done in less time. But if a community member is the first to finish the task, then they can claim the bounty.

[Alphi]

Apologies, but you really don't know what you're talking about in the above post. Perhaps another post will be more accurate.

You are completely mistaken when you write, "...open source logo and the logo itself was produced by community member"

do you want more proof that the Karma logo was created by and for the Karma (aka Karmacoin) community?
just because you lead an open source project does not mean you own the rights to it... everybody participated in the logo competition, donations were even collected for it.
the fact that you went and trademarked the logo under your own name and are now trying to sell it to someone else is an insult to the community...

even the name change from Karmacoin to Karma was a community decision.

The Karmacoin logo design contest is now live!

Go there now: https://99designs.com/logo-design/contests/bitcoin-logo-design-next-dogecoin-karmacoin-362189

Here's how it will work:

1) Contest started*
2) For the next 4 days, entries will be accepted from all designers
3) After that, several designs/designers will be selected for the final round
4) Final round lasts 3 days. This is when we approach the winning design. I will open up voting to the public (maximum of 8 designs that the public can vote on)
5) Winner chosen

The winning design of the contest does not mean that we will use this design for the Karmacoin logo. The contest is created to get a variety of logo ideas from different designers and bring us much closer to the final logo design. We will then need to survey potential future members/user of Karmacoin to get their feedback on all of our designs (those from the contest and those from the community). This will help us to weed out the weakest concepts. This way we can narrow down all of our designs to 2 or 3 good ones and then decide on the one that we will use. Hopefully, the survey results will indicate to us which designs our target market finds attractive and memorable, and which convey our intended message and best captures the personality of Karmacoin.

*If you'd like to donate to help cover the costs of this contest ($299 for 7 days; guaranteed to be a winner to attract more entries) you can send Karma to KBuE7G9Xf2JUgeUKPk6MkPkLNL6zXyznxz
Thanks!

where does it say anywhere in this statement.. "Kosmost's private logo and trademark design contest" ?

[easteagle13]

Apologies, but you really don't know what you're talking about in the above post. Perhaps another post will be more accurate.

You are completely mistaken when you write, "...open source logo and the logo itself was produced by community member"

do you want more proof that the Karma logo was created by and for the Karma (aka Karmacoin) community?
just because you lead an open source project does not mean you own the rights to it... everybody participated in the logo competition, donations were even collected for it.
the fact that you went and trademarked the logo under your own name and are now trying to sell it to someone else is an insult to the community...

even the name change from Karmacoin to Karma was a community decision.

The Karmacoin logo design contest is now live!

Go there now: https://99designs.com/logo-design/contests/bitcoin-logo-design-next-dogecoin-karmacoin-362189

Here's how it will work:

1) Contest started*
2) For the next 4 days, entries will be accepted from all designers
3) After that, several designs/designers will be selected for the final round
4) Final round lasts 3 days. This is when we approach the winning design. I will open up voting to the public (maximum of 8 designs that the public can vote on)
5) Winner chosen

The winning design of the contest does not mean that we will use this design for the Karmacoin logo. The contest is created to get a variety of logo ideas from different designers and bring us much closer to the final logo design. We will then need to survey potential future members/user of Karmacoin to get their feedback on all of our designs (those from the contest and those from the community). This will help us to weed out the weakest concepts. This way we can narrow down all of our designs to 2 or 3 good ones and then decide on the one that we will use. Hopefully, the survey results will indicate to us which designs our target market finds attractive and memorable, and which convey our intended message and best captures the personality of Karmacoin.

*If you'd like to donate to help cover the costs of this contest ($299 for 7 days; guaranteed to be a winner to attract more entries) you can send Karma to KBuE7G9Xf2JUgeUKPk6MkPkLNL6zXyznxz
Thanks!

where does it say anywhere in this statement.. "Kosmost's private logo and trademark design contest" ?

+1 to this post

+1 to your post before this

+1 to the other post of yours before it.

"Gift" from someone means you are ending ownership of something, so are "donations". Those terms were used for IPOCOS too and one of them is lill.com and other "shelved" projects.