[ANN][KARM] Karma / ₭ / X11

[learminer]

What happens with Lill (Web Search)?

Lil was sold , several dumps  occurred too, goodbye cruel world, Tahiti here I come !

Lill was not sold. Market activity has/had nothing to do with Lill. Please get your 'facts' straight before relaying them to others. Should you have specific questions please let us know.

Why is Lill.com not online anymore?
I hope this question is specific enough.

The short answer was given: server costs were too high to keep it running (I think kos said 500$/month). The real question is what happens to Lill in the future. Will it reappear and development commence at some point (as a Karma related project)?

A lot of us grew attached to it over the months, but the thing is: Lill belongs to kosmost and he can do whatever he wants with it. If he wants to share his plans with us - great! If not its none of our business...

[toeshe]

what does FACT mean? does a lie with backer mean a fact?

after the fact what is a karma shareholder mean. is a karma shareholder smart or was it not so smart?

theres like 10pages how to split profits, are these all facts?

karma shareholders can vote ,is this a fact, how do i research this?

when i came here lill was worth over 6million, then it was 2 million. i can research myself but at a loss to find any facts?

can anyone help me here with fact finding?

I truly wanta help. dont know what to say. way more bashers here than needs be. both sides. it seems split in two both claiming rightous

karma IS a good word... phrase "what have you done for karma"...that is a sin... online i guess i take it...in person to even say that is taboo.

one of the main lacks of this coin is FACTS.when folks ask for facts its all about insults always always

how can one help on such shakeee ground

these bad things should be addressed......why attack history


Im not a investor just a miner and trader wishin to help

im not into helpin the deval

[infested999]

what does FACT mean? does a lie with backer mean a fact?

after the fact what is a karma shareholder mean. is a karma shareholder smart or was it not so smart?

theres like 10pages how to split profits, are these all facts?

karma shareholders can vote ,is this a fact, how do i research this?

when i came here lill was worth over 6million, then it was 2 million. i can research myself but at a loss to find any facts?

can anyone help me here with fact finding?

I truly wanta help. dont know what to say. way more bashers here than needs be. both sides. it seems split in two both claiming rightous

karma IS a good word... phrase "what have you done for karma"...that is a sin... online i guess i take it...in person to even say that is taboo.

one of the main lacks of this coin is FACTS.when folks ask for facts its all about insults always always

how can one help on such shakeee ground

these bad things should be addressed......why attack history


Im not a investor just a miner and trader wishin to help

im not into helpin the deval

Those are not facts. How to split profits is decided by the shareholders based on what they think is fair. I couldn't understand the rest of your post.

[kosmost]

The short answer was given: server costs were too high to keep it running (I think kos said 500$/month). The real question is what happens to Lill in the future. Will it reappear and development commence at some point (as a Karma related project)?

A lot of us grew attached to it over the months, but the thing is: Lill belongs to kosmost and he can do whatever he wants with it. If he wants to share his plans with us - great! If not its none of our business...

I would not have guessed that it would be more difficult to get people interested in keeping fundamental services for Karma running than it would be to get people interested in keeping lill going.

Right now there are no plans for lill. It is shelved indefinitely.

[kosmost]

I feel like Karmashares is the rich uncle who just died and most of the family is wasting time over why there was nothing in the will for them.

Indeed, we're wasting a tremendous amount of time focusing on things that aren't related to adding any value for Karma.

It was 7 days ago that I announced Karmashares was shutting down, 6 days ago I was essentially banned from participating in team chats and asked to remove myself as moderator of the KarmaTeam subreddit, and 5 days ago that I announced I will no longer lead Karma

But it would seem that I have learned 4 things over the past week

1) Karma has a great name

2) No one on the team is interested in keeping core services running (not even responding to the post)

3) We continue to 'volunteer' ourselves as a community, but there is very little actual productivity

4) Despite the many complaints about shutting down Karmashares there was not a single viable alternative offered

We've squandered a lot of the extra attention that we've received over the past couple of weeks arguing over insignificant details.

Out of these ashes a new community will arise, hopefully, of people who actually need Karma right now.

[TheLittleDuke]

I feel like Karmashares is the rich uncle who just died and most of the family is wasting time over why there was nothing in the will for them.

Indeed, we're wasting a tremendous amount of time focusing on things that aren't related to adding any value for Karma.

It was 7 days ago that I announced Karmashares was shutting down, 6 days ago I was essentially banned from participating in team chats and asked to remove myself as moderator of the KarmaTeam subreddit, and 5 days ago that I announced I will no longer lead Karma

But it would seem that I have learned 4 things over the past week

1) Karma has a great name

2) No one on the team is interested in keeping core services running (not even responding to the post)

3) We continue to 'volunteer' ourselves as a community, but there is very little actual productivity

4) Despite the many complaints about shutting down Karmashares there was not a single viable alternative offered

We've squandered a lot of the extra attention that we've received over the past couple of weeks arguing over insignificant details.

Out of these ashes a new community will arise, hopefully, of people who actually need Karma right now.

1. Agreed

2. I made an offer (even sent you a note privately about buying the Trademark)

3. Agreed -- but in the vacuum of leadership and direction I think its understandable

4. Again, I made an offer -- and ALSO got kicked out of the Trello board for being an dispassionate neutral third-party.

So KOSMOST -- if you own the Trademark -- ping me -- I'm interested in acquiring it and re-locating all services onto our cloud infrastructure.

-dvd

[Alphi]

I feel like Karmashares is the rich uncle who just died and most of the family is wasting time over why there was nothing in the will for them.

Indeed, we're wasting a tremendous amount of time focusing on things that aren't related to adding any value for Karma.

It was 7 days ago that I announced Karmashares was shutting down, 6 days ago I was essentially banned from participating in team chats and asked to remove myself as moderator of the KarmaTeam subreddit, and 5 days ago that I announced I will no longer lead Karma

But it would seem that I have learned 4 things over the past week

1) Karma has a great name

2) No one on the team is interested in keeping core services running (not even responding to the post)

3) We continue to 'volunteer' ourselves as a community, but there is very little actual productivity

4) Despite the many complaints about shutting down Karmashares there was not a single viable alternative offered

We've squandered a lot of the extra attention that we've received over the past couple of weeks arguing over insignificant details.

Out of these ashes a new community will arise, hopefully, of people who actually need Karma right now.

1. Agreed

2. I made an offer (even sent you a note privately about buying the Trademark)

3. Agreed -- but in the vacuum of leadership and direction I think its understandable

4. Again, I made an offer -- and ALSO got kicked out of the Trello board for being an dispassionate neutral third-party.

So KOSMOST -- if you own the Trademark -- ping me -- I'm interested in acquiring it and re-locating all services onto our cloud infrastructure.

-dvd

can I get some clarification here?...

Karma is an open source community the name and logo were created by the community.

Karmashares was a private company managed and run by Kosmost.

so which trademarks are we talking about?

if Kosmost wants to sell Karmashares assets including trademarks then that's up to him and his investors. Nobody except for the people that invested directly in Karmashares has any right at all to complain to Kosmost for what he does there.

if anyone wants to buy or sell Karma assets (including trademarks and source code etc of the coin itself).. I, as a member of the community, would take great exception to this and so would the law considering there is enough prior art to clearly show that these are owned by the community and not any individual or organisation.

[Alphi]

when i came here lill was worth over 6million, then it was 2 million. i can research myself but at a loss to find any facts?

I'm not a investor just a miner and trader wishin to help

I think you just said it all.. if you didn't invest in Karmashares then you really don't have much ground to stand on for complaining.
yes I know that people were supposed to be given free Karmashares for the coins they held but unless they actually redeemed their Karmashares then they weren't a Karmashares LLC member at the time that Karmashares was wound up. So there really isn't much point in digging up the facts about the unsuccessful sale of LIL.com which was owned by Karmashares LLC.

this is not directed at you specifically but, I really don't understand how people can complain about not getting something they would have been given for free by a company that no longer exists..
that's why its called a Limited liability company (LLC).. because if it collapses then any debts remaining do not get transferred to the owners of the company (ie the LLC members).

[toeshe]

so in layman terms ITS A SCAM

[Alphi]

so in layman terms ITS A SCAM

in layman's terms.. unless you actually owned Karmashares, you should really just stop going in about it, because contrary to what you say about wanting to help.. you really aren't helping anyone by filling up the thread with pointless posts about the past.

If you did own Karmashares then feel free to consult a lawyer or complain to kosmost directly.

[toeshe]

my question was it a smart deal? yes or no?

[kosmost]

So KOSMOST -- if you own the Trademark -- ping me -- I'm interested in acquiring it and re-locating all services onto our cloud infrastructure.

-dvd

Agreed.

And I have provided enough time for all parties to respond. It's been about 7+ days now.

Due to the current situation and need for proper leadership, all of the Karma-related assets under my control will be transferred accordingly.

As everyone knows, Karma is an open source project. Anyone is welcome to work on it and post here, whether or not anyone is subscribed to your particular implementation of the Karma concept.

But Bitcointalk should not be the extent of Karma development. I would even argue that these kinds of conversations are unproductive and not how to move Karma forward.

Putting a proper organization with professional guidance and leadership behind Karma is probably the best thing we could do right now.

As I will from now be a silent Karma community member I have decided to transfer these marks and services as I see fit, to the parties that have demonstrated the most respect and vision for Karma's core values.

yes, "doing good is good" but let's not forget to 'do good' for Karma, too. There's been enough drama, infighting, and politics to write a book. Let's entrust people who are used to managing such growing pains in a more altruistic way (non-profits) to lead Karma to somewhere truly great. I personally would feel much better knowing that there is a solid organization with a history of 'doing good' things behind Karma.

I hoped that, although I have not done things perfectly, I have been altruistic enough in my work for Karma to demonstrate some of its core values. Although being punished for sacrifices of time, money, and welfare is kind of a farce, we would all do well to put all our egos in one basket and put it on the side and do what is best for Karma's future.

It is the only reasonable course of action at this time.

@TheLittleDuke - by the way, can you please identify your username on the Karma forums? - thanks

[kosmost]

can I get some clarification here?...

Karma is an open source community the name and logo were created by the community.

Karmashares was a private company managed and run by Kosmost.

so which trademarks are we talking about?

if Kosmost wants to sell Karmashares assets including trademarks then that's up to him and his investors. Nobody except for the people that invested directly in Karmashares has any right at all to complain to Kosmost for what he does there.

if anyone wants to buy or sell Karma assets (including trademarks and source code etc of the coin itself).. I, as a member of the community, would take great exception to this and so would the law considering there is enough prior art to clearly show that these are owned by the community and not any individual or organisation.

To clarify, no Karmashares-related products or services are for sale or have been sold.

The Karma and Karmacoin logos are technically owned by myself (as I started the contest and paid for it). Not that it makes much difference, but I was the one who pushed for the name change to "Karma", although of course quite a few of us will always know us as Karmacoin

Karma and Karmacoin trademarks, in the digital currency classification, are technically owned by myself (as I registered it and paid for it). The idea is to provide exclusive use of these names to the Karma cryptocurrency community (and protection against any other parties wishing to use these names). I do not see myself as the owner but caretaker of these marks.

Karma is open source. No one owns the Karma source code.

Karmacoin.me is a domain that I registered (as are KarmaFund.me and others)

[kosmost]

The Minnesota non-profit Strength in Numbers Foundation (filing for federal 501.3c status) may be interested in acquiring and hosting all Karma related servers and services as well as funding ongoing development of the coinbase.

Including paying for the transfer of the copyright assuming the current holder can provide a .pdf of the filing approval et a from the USPTO to be reviewed and certified as valid by our corporate attorney.

PM me if interested...

David V Duccini
Executive Director
Strength in Numbers Foundation

Is there a website for Strength in Numbers Foundation?

We will, of course, need to verify legitimacy of entity and interest but this shouldn't be an issue.

Thank you for putting this offer forward. It is sincerely appreciated.

[Alexandrake]

kosmost is showing how much he cared for people working for KARMA.

Deciding everything all by himself.

If you go on with that idea of passing everything to littleduke, you will be doing a lot of damage again to the effort of those who are trying to save this.

Well, I know they must have hurt your pride. And for that every karma believers should suffer right?

You said all IPOCOS done under the name of karmashare is owned by karmashare and that karmashare decisions are made by shareholders. Yet you did all the decisions and executed them!
LILL.com although made by you belongs to karmashare, KARMA logo although paid and initiated by you is owned by the community.

You very well know all these things.

Now you are trying to make another stunt. You are deciding and executing all BY YOURSELF.

[Alphi]

To clarify, no Karmashares-related products or services are for sale or have been sold.

The Karma and Karmacoin logos are technically owned by myself (as I started the contest and paid for it). Not that it makes much difference, but I was the one who pushed for the name change to "Karma", although of course quite a few of us will always know us as Karmacoin

Karma and Karmacoin trademarks, in the digital currency classification, are technically owned by myself (as I registered it and paid for it). The idea is to provide exclusive use of these names to the Karma cryptocurrency community (and protection against any other parties wishing to use these names). I do not see myself as the owner but caretaker of these marks.

Karma is open source. No one owns the Karma source code.

Karmacoin.me is a domain that I registered (as are KarmaFund.me and others)

kosmost you may have organised the contest and may have paid the lion share of the reward but the contest was actually for an open source logo and the logo itself was produced by community member to be used in and incorporated into open source software.
so that makes you the benefactor not rights holder. you yourself said so many times that you were donating your time to help the community. you might be annoyed with those people who trolled you but you cannot undo the words you said and the donations you made to the community.

Do what you want with Karmashares but don't try to sell or buy Karma rights because you wont get far trying to enforce those rights on an open source community.

people who held karmashares also had "rights" which may be legally en-forcible but is a different minefield...

[Alexandrake]

To clarify, no Karmashares-related products or services are for sale or have been sold.

The Karma and Karmacoin logos are technically owned by myself (as I started the contest and paid for it). Not that it makes much difference, but I was the one who pushed for the name change to "Karma", although of course quite a few of us will always know us as Karmacoin

Karma and Karmacoin trademarks, in the digital currency classification, are technically owned by myself (as I registered it and paid for it). The idea is to provide exclusive use of these names to the Karma cryptocurrency community (and protection against any other parties wishing to use these names). I do not see myself as the owner but caretaker of these marks.

Karma is open source. No one owns the Karma source code.

Karmacoin.me is a domain that I registered (as are KarmaFund.me and others)

kosmost you may have organised the contest and may have paid the lion share of the reward but the contest was actually for an open source logo which was incorporated into open source software.
so you are the benefactor not rights holder.
as I said it doesn't matter if you registered a Karma trade mark or not there is enough prior art and documentation to prove that it was done for, and given to an open source project and as you so rightly put it you even see yourself as the caretaker not the owner.

Do what you want with Karmashares but don't try to sell or buy Karma rights because you wont get far trying to enforce those rights on an open source community.

+1

[easteagle13]

Alphi can I invite you to trello?

[Alphi]

Alphi can I invite you to trello?

sure.. im a little busy atm... thats why I havent been talking too much.. also bcos generally im not interested in fighting and arguing but I am always for this community no matter who is leading it or contributing towards its growth.

[easteagle13]

Alphi can I invite you to trello?

sure.. im a little busy atm... thats why I havent been talking too much.. also bcos generally im not interested in fighting and arguing but I am always for this community no matter who is leading it or contributing towards its growth.

thanks you can rest assured that no arguing is happening in trello. All are being done in voluntary way. Everyone who will do something for KARMA will be admitted too.