[ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin"

[smooth]

That said, Just-Dice controls the majority of the staking CLAM and hence the majority of the CLAM network.
There is little the minority of solo-stakers could do to challenge such a change.

What this tells you is that the current situation where the most on the stake is on Just-Dice is completely broken. Just-Dice can effectively wipe out anyone's CLAMs (not just pre-dig) by refusing to stake on top of any blocks that move those coins. You might as well just make the whole damn thing a book entry on a Just-Dice database and dispense with the presence that there is a decentralized crypto.

Which to me is all the more reason to let the supply continue to grow so maybe, someday, there will be more coins in existence than just what people choose to invest in the JD bankroll. Granted that doesn't appear to be happening with the current digger but it at least could happen if the distribution process continues in the future.

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[smooth]

However! For PoS coins this isn't the case. We buy 1000 CLAMs, and it's 0.1% of the 1 million total money supply, say. If there's no digging, and only staking, then a year later another 500k CLAMs have been staked. But we have staked 500 of that 500k, since we are 0.1% of the staking weight. So now we have 1500 of the 1.5 million supply, and still have 0.1% of the total money supply. Sure, assuming a constant market cap the price will have decreased by 50%, but our holdings have increased by 50% too, so our net worth in CLAM has remained constant.

This argument is false because it assumes that everyone stakes all the time. Smaller holders aren't necessarily going to stake because it isn't worth the trouble. Or they will stake in a few (or as we see now, one) large pools which catastrophically centralizes the network, and transfers (likely further concentrates in practice) wealth to the pool operator via fees.

People who are actively using the coin in a transactional manner (to the extent such a rumored mythical creature actually exists) also do not stake because the network rules don't allow it.

In this way staking is NOT the same as the inflation we see in USD, BTC, or DOGE, since the newly created coins are shared out to existing holders in proportion to their holdings.

It does bear a lot of resemblance to USD. Some are able to invest and keep up with inflation but others are not. The groups largely mirror the ones described above.

and it seems to push owners to hoard CLAMS and hold them indefinitely.

but it shouldn't. Staking is "running to stay still".

It likely does, for exactly the reason you state: Staying still is better than falling behind.

[xploited]

I'm a little confused how we progressed to Doogcoin. If theres overwhelming support for whatever changes dooglus would plan on making to doogcoin why exactly are we not implementing them in clams?

I would much prefer to see a unified path then a split. I don't think it will serve anyone positively in the long run.  


 

[SuperClam]

Blah Blah Blah
dooglus is a scammer
Blah Blah Blah
This coin is a scam
blah blah blah

Deleted for ad hominem attacks.
Congratulations you are the second moderation/deletion on this thread in it's well over a years existence.
The only deletion for non-spam/advertising.

[smooth]

I'm a little confused how we progressed to Doogcoin. If theres overwhelming support for whatever changes dooglus would plan on making to doogcoin why exactly are we not implementing them in clams?

I would much prefer to see a unified path then a split. I don't think it will serve anyone positively in the long run.  

What's "overwhelming support"?

I have nonzero CLAMs and I certainly don't support some sort of change that grabs undug claims that (according to the big pretty graphic in the OP) people already own.

[Hippie Tech]

Blah Blah Blah
dooglus is a scammer
Blah Blah Blah
This coin is a scam
blah blah blah

Deleted for ad hominem attacks.
Congratulations you are the second moderation/deletion on this thread in it's well over a years existence.
The only deletion for non-spam/advertising.

Wow.. my new term for shitcoin pushin scammer, "eduffield", is really catching on ! hahaha

If I'm wrong.. they why didn't you just fix the exploit ?

"I dropped the stake reward from 1000 to 1 because ... "

[xploited]

If I'm wrong.. they why didn't you just fix the exploit ?

"I dropped the stake reward from 1000 to 1 because ... "

There was no fixing, the lottery was inherently broken and unfixable. 

Suggesting the reward was 1000 is misinformed. It was a max of 1000, and a min of .1, and the overwheming majority of blocks were .1 reward.  Doog posted the chart where inflation increased after the lottery was stopped, you can look back to the last page or two to see it.

[nicolaennio]

Dooglus thanks again for the reply, I will cut a lot mine in order to be brief. The presence of a big and slow digger seems to give headaches to a lot of CLAM holders.

What about capping/limiting the amount of CLAMs which can be digged daily (example: no more than 200 CLAMS per day)? The available limits can be given randomly to diggers who wants them. In this way we are still 'fair' towards prospective diggers and at the same time we give a 'time advantage' to current holders which are, of course, more important than future unknown ones.

[gamblingbad]

Why not implement said Doogcoin alongside Clam on JD, instead of in its place? Kind of like Alex's site where you can gamble a few different crypto's with one common trollbox, etc?

I just spent a few hours away from the computer thinking about things, and came to the same conclusion myself. There's no reason to switch from CLAM to the new coin when we can accept both at the same time. That way people get to lose their balance twice!

The Just-Dice codebase isn't set up to handle multiple currencies, but I can simply run two different instances like I did with the original Just-Dice and Doge-Dice sites.

If you do that will u give investors choice to trade their clam for same amount moneysupply of doogcoin?

[o_dima]

If you do that will u give investors choice to trade their clam for same amount moneysupply of doogcoin?

Not for everyone of course. Lol. Only if your JD user ID is less than 50000. Or invested amount exceeds 4K clams. Anyway you will have a time (1-2 days) to buy some more clams and get your chance to jump on that train.

[chilly2k]

Why not implement said Doogcoin alongside Clam on JD, instead of in its place? Kind of like Alex's site where you can gamble a few different crypto's with one common trollbox, etc?

I just spent a few hours away from the computer thinking about things, and came to the same conclusion myself. There's no reason to switch from CLAM to the new coin when we can accept both at the same time. That way people get to lose their balance twice!

The Just-Dice codebase isn't set up to handle multiple currencies, but I can simply run two different instances like I did with the original Just-Dice and Doge-Dice sites.

If you do that will u give investors choice to trade their clam for same amount moneysupply of doogcoin?

   I believe he stated it would be a 1 for 1 swap for all clams not in the original distribution blocks, Which means if your clams have already been dug, you would get 1 doogcoin per. 

   This is all just hypothesis at this point.  He is just throwing out ideas for consideration. 

[andulolika]

If you do that will u give investors choice to trade their clam for same amount moneysupply of doogcoin?

Not for everyone of course. Lol. Only if your JD user ID is less than 50000. Or invested amount exceeds 4K clams. Anyway you will have a time (1-2 days) to buy some more clams and get your chance to jump on that train.

this is the moment im doubling price of uid 18 to 1.6 btc LOL.
Edit: i believe clam should stay as it is, clam was designed in a way and it shouldnt be changed just because people is afraid, there is another 14m of awesome coins or whatever amount it is, i think its a nice rollercoaster we would waste.

[Hippie Tech]

Blah Blah Blah
dooglus is a scammer
Blah Blah Blah
This coin is a scam
blah blah blah

Deleted for ad hominem attacks.
Congratulations you are the second moderation/deletion on this thread in it's well over a years existence.
The only deletion for non-spam/advertising.

Wow.. my new term for shitcoin pushin scammer, "eduffield", is really catching on ! hahaha

If I'm wrong.. they why didn't you just fix the exploit ?

"I dropped the stake reward from 1000 to 1 because ... "

There was no fixing, the lottery was inherently broken and unfixable.  

Suggesting the reward was 1000 is misinformed. It was a max of 1000, and a min of .1, and the overwheming majority of blocks were .1 reward.  Doog posted the chart where inflation increased after the lottery was stopped, you can look back to the last page or two to see it.

I do not need to be a coder to know that its only code !

Those "in the know" used the same excuse 3 years ago when they duped some/most of the community into thinking that scrypt asics were an impossibility.

Would you like to try again ?

[Hippie Tech]

If you do that will u give investors choice to trade their clam for same amount moneysupply of doogcoin?

Not for everyone of course. Lol. Only if your JD user ID is less than 50000. Or invested amount exceeds 4K clams. Anyway you will have a time (1-2 days) to buy some more clams and get your chance to jump on that train.

mm... Theres nothing like the fresh smell of ponzi pushers in the morning... TAKE A DEEP BREATH PEEPS ! lol

All hail the great Cryptofiat Bank of Doog !

[chilly2k]

If you do that will u give investors choice to trade their clam for same amount moneysupply of doogcoin?

Not for everyone of course. Lol. Only if your JD user ID is less than 50000. Or invested amount exceeds 4K clams. Anyway you will have a time (1-2 days) to buy some more clams and get your chance to jump on that train.

mm... Theres nothing like the fresh smell of ponzi pushers in the morning... TAKE A DEEP BREATH PEEPS ! lol

All hail the great Cryptofiat Bank of Doog !

   Guess you aren't really following the discussion.  I think the Lol was supposed to mean "I'm only kidding". 

But I like a good conspiracy theory...  getting the tin foil hat ready.. .   

[xploited]

Blah Blah Blah
dooglus is a scammer
Blah Blah Blah
This coin is a scam
blah blah blah

Deleted for ad hominem attacks.
Congratulations you are the second moderation/deletion on this thread in it's well over a years existence.
The only deletion for non-spam/advertising.

Wow.. my new term for shitcoin pushin scammer, "eduffield", is really catching on ! hahaha

If I'm wrong.. they why didn't you just fix the exploit ?

"I dropped the stake reward from 1000 to 1 because ... "

There was no fixing, the lottery was inherently broken and unfixable.  

Suggesting the reward was 1000 is misinformed. It was a max of 1000, and a min of .1, and the overwheming majority of blocks were .1 reward.  Doog posted the chart where inflation increased after the lottery was stopped, you can look back to the last page or two to see it.

I do not need to be a coder to know that its only code !

Those "in the know" used the same excuse 3 years ago when they duped some/most of the community into thinking that scrypt asics were an impossibility.

Would you like to try again ?

In this case it would be greatly helpful if you were a coder. Or even if you understood how PoS works, also helpful. Maybe you should try to understand the issue before you make suggestions like "its only code".
It was an unforeseen side effect of PoS. I could explain it to you in detail but it seems you really don't care for the logic anyways, you've made your conclusions.

Were not all perfect here at CLAM.  Mistakes happen.. we fix them, we try to learn from them..  and move on.

Maybe it is possible to have a provable fair onchain lottery with the bitcoin scripting system. I, nor any one else looking at the problem was able to figure out how.

We also had the issue of needing to move quick. Once a flaw in something like this is found you can't wait around while you figure out a solution to a problem that arguable isn't even solvable within the context of the bitcoin script system.

It was being abused. The only logical recourse was to remove it.

[andulolika]

If you do that will u give investors choice to trade their clam for same amount moneysupply of doogcoin?

Not for everyone of course. Lol. Only if your JD user ID is less than 50000. Or invested amount exceeds 4K clams. Anyway you will have a time (1-2 days) to buy some more clams and get your chance to jump on that train.

mm... Theres nothing like the fresh smell of ponzi pushers in the morning... TAKE A DEEP BREATH PEEPS ! lol

All hail the great Cryptofiat Bank of Doog !

   Guess you aren't really following the discussion.  I think the Lol was supposed to mean "I'm only kidding". 

But I like a good conspiracy theory...  getting the tin foil hat ready.. .   

It wasnt enough that you have a jew hat?

[tryphe]

I'm all for things staying the same. Market sentiment is dubious and people seem to have unsewn themselves from inside their couches just for this reason. Nothing is wrong, and we all signed up for the same distribution. Without the distribution, it's just another token. Aspirations always win, in due time.

[smooth]

Why not implement said Doogcoin alongside Clam on JD, instead of in its place? Kind of like Alex's site where you can gamble a few different crypto's with one common trollbox, etc?

I just spent a few hours away from the computer thinking about things, and came to the same conclusion myself. There's no reason to switch from CLAM to the new coin when we can accept both at the same time. That way people get to lose their balance twice!

The Just-Dice codebase isn't set up to handle multiple currencies, but I can simply run two different instances like I did with the original Just-Dice and Doge-Dice sites.

If you do that will u give investors choice to trade their clam for same amount moneysupply of doogcoin?

You would just receive a proportional amount of the new coin. No need to trade, though of course you could always trade one coin for the other with an exchange or OTC trade.

[uvwvj]

Wait so Calm pussies are upset someone is claiming the clams from the 17M outstanding clams even though only 1-2 Mhave been dugged or staked, and upset they clams are losing value.

Now they want a Doogcoin that probably should be pegged to Bitcoin so JD can endure.

So back 200 pages and look at what people told you bunch of clamscammers.

Ended up right up in the sclammer developers wheelhouse.