Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[Adrian-x]

you know, it just occurred to me that when Austin Hill goes around to all the mining pools and mines and tries to convince them to MM all his SC's, he's introducing a market distortion.

in other words, he's attempting to get something for nothing.

You've distilled my concern quite concisely. Thinking through the MM scenario if the SC gains any momentum and can sustain a higher reward when Bitcoins reward diminish at halving Austin Hill will have succeeded, HeliKopterBen scenario is quite interesting but does not give enough consideration to Bitcoins halving in just 2 years. That excess mining will be chasing the SC tx and rewards, and Bitcoins MC status diminishes as the Bitcoin reward is insignificant in comparison to mining the SC - the up side for a while is miners mine SC coins and convert scBTC to BTC, (do the same work earn more BTC.) Miners will abandon BTC mining as reward drops and focus on the SC.

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[Wekkel]

This thread is awesome now.... I love FUD based in misunderstandings.  It is way cooler than global economics and the interplay between gold and bitcoin. 

I liked it a few weeks back. Zero hedge thinking and hard hitting observations. Now, it's the SC thread (but never too old to learn).

[Adrian-x]

I consider another flaw in your argument to be your casual dismissal of the force of arbitrage.

IF the whale has indeed identified a SC with a true innovation, he's in good shape jumping in first.  as everyone starts following, including miners willing to primarily mine the SC for its sidecoin and scBTC, Bitcoin MC could become MM'd and thus weaker from a security standpoint.  if that happens, the BTC price could be expected to drop below the scBTC price as the situation has now flipped from what it was prior to the SC takeover.  that's where the stragglers could get caught on the MC as 51% attacks could be levied to block SPV proof formation.

This is the economic speculation forum after all. I don't even need "a hypothetical" SC whale jumping in to see the above come to be. The scenario above is exactly what will come to play and how Blockstream’s cronies make a killing. Blockstream may have access to a mining operation or could pre buy mining contract to execute the above plan by paying above market rates for mining contracts prior to releasing there reward scheme for there SC. If they could get hold of a note worthy amount of mining contracts (keep in mind at today's exchange at least 50% of it will likely be defunct in 2 years due to halving) with a SC with a 1:1 peg could could do this by:

1. Offsetting the mining rewards with Bitcoins diminishing reward at the protocol level .
2. MM SC
3. Exchanging MM SC for BTC.
4. Short BTC for USD and buying SC with USD.
5. Create an arbitrage opportunity for BTC holders and proponents who supply more BTC to short.
6. Rinse and repeat.

[cbeast]

Doge's Law: If cryptocurrency is open source and it is successful then it will be memed.

I think SCs will be cloned to death. There will be no incentive for a whale to corner an SC that he cannot build and market himself.

[smooth]

Doge's Law: If cryptocurrency is open source and it is successful then it will be memed.

I think SCs will be cloned to death. There will be no incentive for a whale to corner an SC that he cannot build and market himself.

Except that DOGE hasn't been successfully cloned (and many have tried). Memes are marketing. Good marketing is hard and not obviously replicable.

[cbeast]

Doge's Law: If cryptocurrency is open source and it is successful then it will be memed.

I think SCs will be cloned to death. There will be no incentive for a whale to corner an SC that he cannot build and market himself.

Except that DOGE hasn't been successfully cloned (and many have tried). Memes are marketing. Good marketing is hard and not obviously replicable.

Doge isn't successful. It is the meme inspired by Bitcoin. Doge shows that marketing gives the perception of success. Success is measured by the fear it produces. Only Bitcoin is feared by presidents and kings. The presidents and kings will try to clone SCs where they failed to clone Bitcoin successfully. They will use "Doge style" marketing to pump their SC clones.

[Decksperiment]

When Bitcoin goes up in price and all you have is Gold which apparently no-one want's.. to buy bitcoin, you know the gov want's their gold back.. figure it out..

[hardhouseinc]

I love coming back here every time I see the BTC price slip more and more but
the people here still are convinced gold is doomed.  LOL.

[smooth]

Doge's Law: If cryptocurrency is open source and it is successful then it will be memed.

I think SCs will be cloned to death. There will be no incentive for a whale to corner an SC that he cannot build and market himself.

Except that DOGE hasn't been successfully cloned (and many have tried). Memes are marketing. Good marketing is hard and not obviously replicable.

Doge isn't successful. It is the meme inspired by Bitcoin. Doge shows that marketing gives the perception of success. Success is measured by the fear it produces. Only Bitcoin is feared by presidents and kings. The presidents and kings will try to clone SCs where they failed to clone Bitcoin successfully. They will use "Doge style" marketing to pump their SC clones.

You are missing the point. Once it is successfully memed then it can't be cloned to death. There will be many tries, but at some point one will dominate and then future meme clones will just fail. That's what happened after DOGE took off. There were cat coins, rapper coins, and all sorts of dumb attempts to clone it. They went nowhere. A year later DOGE is now #3 out of 1000+.

[devphp]

I love coming back here every time I see the BTC price slip more and more but
the people here still are convinced gold is doomed.  LOL.

They are convinced anything but Bitcoin is doomed. Even Doge is bad now, and it's as pure PoW as could be, wtf, I understand PoS worries as PoS requires a paradigm shift in thinking but Doge?

Blind bias hasn't ever got anyone very far, I guess they're soon to find that out from personal experience, and learn that diversification is the name of the game.

[cbeast]

Doge's Law: If cryptocurrency is open source and it is successful then it will be memed.

I think SCs will be cloned to death. There will be no incentive for a whale to corner an SC that he cannot build and market himself.

Except that DOGE hasn't been successfully cloned (and many have tried). Memes are marketing. Good marketing is hard and not obviously replicable.

Doge isn't successful. It is the meme inspired by Bitcoin. Doge shows that marketing gives the perception of success. Success is measured by the fear it produces. Only Bitcoin is feared by presidents and kings. The presidents and kings will try to clone SCs where they failed to clone Bitcoin successfully. They will use "Doge style" marketing to pump their SC clones.

You are missing the point. Once it is successfully memed then it can't be cloned to death. There will be many tries, but at some point one will dominate and then future meme clones will just fail. That's what happened after DOGE took off. There were cat coins, rapper coins, and all sorts of dumb attempts to clone it. They went nowhere. A year later DOGE is now #3 out of 1000+.

You obviously don't understand memes. I'm not hating doggie, it's funny and the press can't hate bitcoin and love doggies. It serves the purpose of being Bitcoin's fool. Every doge has its day. It's a great gimmick. They can't copy a caricature because then it just shows you have no imagination.

[o0‡0o]

I love coming back here every time I see the BTC price slip more and more but
the people here still are convinced gold is doomed.  LOL.

They are convinced anything but Bitcoin is doomed. Even Doge is bad now, and it's as pure PoW as could be, wtf, I understand PoS worries as PoS requires a paradigm shift in thinking but Doge?

Blind bias hasn't ever got anyone very far, I guess they're soon to find that out from personal experience, and learn that diversification is the name of the game.

PoS is something you end up with when the thinking is left to the Horses because they have bigger heads. If you pay thousand and thousands of percent over making cost you get ripped off no if or buts. If a pencil manufacturer making only one million of a particular pencil and then sell it at 10000% of cost would anyone buy it? Why not after all its "rare" and limited.  If demand at first is sluggish marketing to the right people in bitcointalk altcoin section will drive demand skyhigh, this would be considered bargain of the year and enthusiastically snapped up with only 10000% mark-up.
To generate a bitcoin is somewhat akin to generating electric and takes work (effort).
In the crypto world there are a lot of charlatans, XRP is a prime example, banks are given millions for free and you can buy them.
When will established business get wind of this new way of making tons of money?

[cbeast]

[
When will established business get wind of this new way of making tons of money?

Dear Gov't,
Businesses need money. Give us some.
Thanks bye.

[cypherdoc]

Speaking of gvts, no one has bothered to address my non economic malicious  attack by a gvt i outlined days ago.

Right now the most the gvt could do with their 143000 BTC address is sell it to another BTC buyer. Now, with SC's, you're handing them an opportunity to boot strap a new currency on their own terms, while at the same time offering them a risk free put. And don't expect them to tell you ahead of time. They'll be smart enough to slowly infuse the SC to create a  perception of market demand. Ask yourself how would you feel seeing at least 143000 BTC show up on a SC in staccato fashion over a period of a year accompanied by other speculative follow on scBTC?

But maybe that is the plan all along;  make a killing along side a gvt.

[cypherdoc]

Ok, now I'm on a roll. Here's your solution to arb bots.

Gvt says  to their lover Wall Street, "how would you like to destroy Bitcoin? I'm gonna slowly infuse 143000 btc into SC inflatacoin. You keep buying the new scBTC on the other side of the peg on the exchange. This is your chance to be the early adopters without having to pay off all those geeks or put them in control. But get some for us too while you're at it cuz we wanna get rich too. Just keep buying. And if you need to just keep printing whatever it takes to drive the price. Eventually we'll get a run."

[cypherdoc]

Actually, in the above gvt attack scenario,  arb bots help funnel BTC to scBTC faster thus increasing the speed at which the SC gains dominance.

[brg444]

Ok, now I'm on a roll. Here's your solution to arb bots.

 

stop it. I'm saying it in the most friendly way, what you are doing is not healthy, you are simply trying too hard.

you can carry on. but you might as well create a thread. your infatuation for SC doomsday scenario is taking too much place in this thread, as others have mentioned (I recognize I am also guilty of entertaining this back n forth)

i appreciate and enjoy your market analysis pertaining to this thread's original topic so lets go back to that. if you create a different thread where you can sum up your scenarios for SC attacks and update your theory (which changes daily) I may discuss it there but from now on let's try and keep it on topic

[justusranvier]

Actually, in the above gvt attack scenario,  arb bots help funnel BTC to scBTC faster thus increasing the speed at which the SC gains dominance.

Speaking of government attack scenarios, BitPay just hired Emperor Palpatine:

[brg444]

Actually, in the above gvt attack scenario,  arb bots help funnel BTC to scBTC faster thus increasing the speed at which the SC gains dominance.

Speaking of government attack scenarios, BitPay just hired Emperor Palpatine:

this guy is a trojan horse and doesn't even know it 

[cbeast]

Actually, in the above gvt attack scenario,  arb bots help funnel BTC to scBTC faster thus increasing the speed at which the SC gains dominance.

Speaking of government attack scenarios, BitPay just hired Emperor Palpatine:

this guy is a trojan horse and doesn't even know it 

I doubt we hear anything from him. That's what scare me.