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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 2031529 times)
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October 16, 2014, 09:41:37 PM
 #13961

worth watching for gold bugs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro6JUChxtF4

gentlemen, gold revaluation is coming.

i used to listen to Willie religiously.  unfortunately, he's too gloom and doom with lots of unsubstantiated sources ala his London guy.

Well it is true that China is the main gold buyer along with Russia and India... and it is true that htey hold majority of the bonds during the crash... so they should have some say in the manipulation that is going on.. up till now they were happy to scoop it all up as cheap as possible.. and US has been happy to simply borrow gold away while depleting its resources so either US knows something China doesn't or US doesn't care about gold as it has another card to play (bitcoin?) or something... here have your gold, i've moved onto my bitcoin.

So the idea is that now that China has all of the gold it can set the true price and let it float without manipulation and watch it rise... and if US wants to do arb's sure.. but you need actual metal to do that to bring to the exchange in China to trade... so effectively eliminating arb'ing. Now China can set the price to double and people will buy knowing US inventory is done and real price is/was much higher in the first place... however if US has another card they might just say but wait a sec.. you dont need gold anymore look at what I got!

I guess assumption on facts are:

1) Is US inventory depleted? (can you buy contracts and have them physically delivered? I heard no)
2) Will china reprice (Why wouldn't they?)
3) Does US have a backup plan once gold shoots up and ppl run around like chickens with their heads cut off? (TIme will tell)

The problem of the US will not be Gold shooting up but the USD going down as Yellen increase QE

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October 16, 2014, 09:59:06 PM
 #13962

worth watching for gold bugs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro6JUChxtF4

gentlemen, gold revaluation is coming.

i used to listen to Willie religiously.  unfortunately, he's too gloom and doom with lots of unsubstantiated sources ala his London guy.

Well it is true that China is the main gold buyer along with Russia and India... and it is true that htey hold majority of the bonds during the crash... so they should have some say in the manipulation that is going on.. up till now they were happy to scoop it all up as cheap as possible.. and US has been happy to simply borrow gold away while depleting its resources so either US knows something China doesn't or US doesn't care about gold as it has another card to play (bitcoin?) or something... here have your gold, i've moved onto my bitcoin.

So the idea is that now that China has all of the gold it can set the true price and let it float without manipulation and watch it rise... and if US wants to do arb's sure.. but you need actual metal to do that to bring to the exchange in China to trade... so effectively eliminating arb'ing. Now China can set the price to double and people will buy knowing US inventory is done and real price is/was much higher in the first place... however if US has another card they might just say but wait a sec.. you dont need gold anymore look at what I got!

I guess assumption on facts are:

1) Is US inventory depleted? (can you buy contracts and have them physically delivered? I heard no)
2) Will china reprice (Why wouldn't they?)
3) Does US have a backup plan once gold shoots up and ppl run around like chickens with their heads cut off? (TIme will tell)

The problem of the US will not be Gold shooting up but the USD going down as Yellen increase QE

thought they were tapering it actually?! (as the gold price..)
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October 16, 2014, 10:48:12 PM
 #13963

worth watching for gold bugs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro6JUChxtF4

gentlemen, gold revaluation is coming.

i used to listen to Willie religiously.  unfortunately, he's too gloom and doom with lots of unsubstantiated sources ala his London guy.

Well it is true that China is the main gold buyer along with Russia and India... and it is true that htey hold majority of the bonds during the crash... so they should have some say in the manipulation that is going on.. up till now they were happy to scoop it all up as cheap as possible.. and US has been happy to simply borrow gold away while depleting its resources so either US knows something China doesn't or US doesn't care about gold as it has another card to play (bitcoin?) or something... here have your gold, i've moved onto my bitcoin.

So the idea is that now that China has all of the gold it can set the true price and let it float without manipulation and watch it rise... and if US wants to do arb's sure.. but you need actual metal to do that to bring to the exchange in China to trade... so effectively eliminating arb'ing. Now China can set the price to double and people will buy knowing US inventory is done and real price is/was much higher in the first place... however if US has another card they might just say but wait a sec.. you dont need gold anymore look at what I got!

I guess assumption on facts are:

1) Is US inventory depleted? (can you buy contracts and have them physically delivered? I heard no)
2) Will china reprice (Why wouldn't they?)
3) Does US have a backup plan once gold shoots up and ppl run around like chickens with their heads cut off? (TIme will tell)

The problem of the US will not be Gold shooting up but the USD going down as Yellen increase QE

Not talking about USD but gold against a basket.

One of the southern FED masters have come out and said they are for increasing QE should economy show signs of faltering.. but he is just one of many that need to vote as a consensus is formed... so its still tapering until its not.
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October 17, 2014, 12:27:11 AM
 #13964


CNBC ratings at record lows, Cramer with ZERO credibility, and yet they still find a way to plumb the depths of the Well of Stupidity even further.

Cramer: Why Ebola is behind the selloff

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October 17, 2014, 01:14:15 AM
 #13965

Cramer himself would admit he is an entertainer.  CNBC has a problem with low viewer counts and the market in general is suffering low participation despite greater then ever subsidy by government.    If he really isnt that dumb already then he is doing it for the headline and the general interest, thats his job pretty much to put on the clown suit and draw in the crowd.  
  I think he is half decent in his instincts at least, like the flash crash for example. How much of that gets twisted before we hear it Im not sure


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October 17, 2014, 02:18:19 AM
 #13966

We seem to have our own version of rewriting history here in the US now. I  can't seem to find the infamous Cramer video anymore where he talks about manipulating S&P futures pre hours when he ran his hedge fund. 
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October 17, 2014, 02:27:07 AM
 #13967

plus, anyone leaving coins on an exchange deserves to lose them.

problem is that if you don't keep coins on an exchange, then you can't trade. So if everyone followed your advice no BTC market could exist.
If our Rothschild OverLord of yesteryear was to think about that problem here's what he would say:
"Treat the stock Bitcoin exchange like a cold shower (quick in, quick out)."

Yes and don't go whining to the holders or to the mass media if your money is lost.  As you were sitting around raking in trading profits on Gox -- fake profits BTW that only existed because they weren't backed by real USD or BTC -- the truth is that the only reason you were able to do so is because the majority of the market players -- the true players -- were missing.  They were missing because they correctly estimated the counterparty risk and found proposal nonviable.

molecular
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October 17, 2014, 04:50:27 AM
 #13968


haha, your question actually has merit.  who's the real devil?  the lender, the shorter, or the exchange enabler?

As long as it's not "naked" shorting, I don't see a problem.

Yes, the lender is an idiot for assuming a risk without awareness and the shorter is an asshole... bit it's legitimate in my mind.

PGP key molecular F9B70769 fingerprint 9CDD C0D3 20F8 279F 6BE0  3F39 FC49 2362 F9B7 0769
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October 17, 2014, 04:52:22 AM
 #13969


It's like Pirate40 has gone from the collective memory of Bitcoin, I'm visceraly sure this is happening and we're going to have another teachable moment.

I agree. We have so much to learn (and unlearn) still.

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October 17, 2014, 04:53:50 AM
 #13970

The last two are related.
Naked shorts would only be possible by leaving coins on exchange.

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
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October 17, 2014, 04:57:53 AM
 #13971


CNBC ratings at record lows, Cramer with ZERO credibility, and yet they still find a way to plumb the depths of the Well of Stupidity even further.

Cramer: Why Ebola is behind the selloff

They'll always need something or someone to blame. Next it's ISIS, Putin, Iran, China, WWIII, Aliens, whatever. I hate people who don't assume responsibility for the shit they do. If you're enslaving the world using a fiat money ponzi scheme and colluding with corrupt politicians to take everyones freedom away, at least be proud of it and admit it.

PGP key molecular F9B70769 fingerprint 9CDD C0D3 20F8 279F 6BE0  3F39 FC49 2362 F9B7 0769
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October 17, 2014, 05:05:06 AM
 #13972

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3OWzZSr8Nc

fred & brian from coinbase putting to rest some obvious myth in this AMA

merchant processing volume is marginal and sell pressure on the price from these operations quasi-inexistent

they actually mention they RARELY, if ever, have to dump coins on exchange from merchant processing and most often the coins are bought by coinbase users (bullish)

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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October 17, 2014, 05:08:14 AM
 #13973

I'm curious though how Bitpay handles their merchant coins. Who buys them?
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October 17, 2014, 05:32:46 AM
 #13974

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3OWzZSr8Nc

fred & brian from coinbase putting to rest some obvious myth in this AMA

merchant processing volume is marginal and sell pressure on the price from these operations quasi-inexistent

they actually mention they RARELY, if ever, have to dump coins on exchange from merchant processing and most often the coins are bought by coinbase users (bullish)


Yeah, decent AMA. I caught most of it... Tuned in right after they said they're not doing anything with alts anytime soon (so I gathered from the chat), which is great. The ecosystem is tiny and companies need to focus. Glad Fred and Brian get that.

All in all, they were both remarkably casual, straight-forward, and open. Much more so than even interacting with them in-person at conferences, in my experience.

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
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October 17, 2014, 09:25:13 AM
 #13975

Nikkei hit hard but Europe is bouncing high today

Fun facts: Netflix (NFLX) shed more than the entire market cap of bitcoin yesterday

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October 17, 2014, 10:23:21 AM
 #13976


Fun facts: Netflix (NFLX) shed more than the entire market cap of bitcoin yesterday



That's crazy

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October 17, 2014, 05:39:49 PM
 #13977

I'm curious though how Bitpay handles their merchant coins. Who buys them?
They dump them straight away spread out on the biggest exchanges.

Privacy matters, use Monero - A true untraceable cryptocurrency
Why Monero matters? http://weuse.cash/2016/03/05/bitcoiners-hedge-your-position/
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October 17, 2014, 06:02:12 PM
 #13978


CNBC ratings at record lows, Cramer with ZERO credibility, and yet they still find a way to plumb the depths of the Well of Stupidity even further.

Cramer: Why Ebola is behind the selloff

They'll always need something or someone to blame. Next it's ISIS, Putin, Iran, China, WWIII, Aliens, whatever. I hate people who don't assume responsibility for the shit they do. If you're enslaving the world using a fiat money ponzi scheme and colluding with corrupt politicians to take everyones freedom away, at least be proud of it and admit it.


Damned straight!
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October 17, 2014, 06:13:53 PM
 #13979

I'm curious though how Bitpay handles their merchant coins. Who buys them?
They dump them straight away spread out on the biggest exchanges.
Maybe they do that today, but they haven't always.

They started out selling many or most of their coins OTC to investors and other companies.

I heard that for a while Coinbase got most of the coins they sold from BitPay.
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October 18, 2014, 06:44:07 PM
Last edit: October 18, 2014, 10:42:34 PM by Peter R
 #13980

Money as a Ledger

The shift in the mainstream discourse surrounding bitcoin from "it will never work" towards a recognition of the value of decentralized trustless ledgers has been pointed out several times in this thread, in particular by Cypherdoc.  Acceptance is growing for bitcoin as a "ledger," but with plenty of doubt reserved for bitcoin as a "currency."  Here's a relevant opinion piece from 'The Economist' (Insights) that demonstrates this effect:

http://www.economistinsights.com/technology-innovation/analysis/money-no-middleman/tab/1

The author claims that finance experts are intrigued by a distributed ledger:

Quote
"The aspect of the Bitcoin protocol that finance experts find intriguing is its distributed ledger, the Bitcoin blockchain."

"This ability to move value across ledgers cheaply and publicly has a myriad uses."

yet are skeptical of the currency aspect:

Quote
"Bitcoin, the currency, is a risky investment."

"There is growing interest in treating Bitcoin not as a currency but as a digital equivalent to a notary’s stamp: using the blockchain as a way to authenticate digital transactions, offering irrevocable proof of ownership with a traceable history."

Such thinking is incongruous.  To simultaneously claim that Bitcoin's blockchain is useful as a ledger yet unsuitable as a currency belies the very essence of what money is.  Money is a ledger.  Melbustus has posted links to Wences Casares' (XAPO CEO) video talks, and here's another where, in 7 minutes, Wences explores the evolution of money, and the technological and economic advancements that transformed it from for a balance sheet stored in the community's collective memory, to an analog ledger implemented with tokens of gold, to what we have today with bitcoin:

http://bigthink.com/users/wences-casares

This view of the history of money is hardly controversial (the view that rather than evolving from barter, money came from the need to better remember what value was owed to which person).  In this blog post, David Andolfatto (SFU professor and VP of Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis), "scores one for the anthropologists" and provides several references arguing against the barter myth, in favour of the memory view:

http://andolfatto.blogspot.ca/2014/07/debt-first-5000-years.html

He makes the comment here that "Bitcoin will retain its value as long as it records information in a useful manner (whether or not it possesses legal tender status)," focusing on the importance of its memory ("records information") function.  

This aligns with Kocherlakota's (President of the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis) "money is memory" view.  Kocherlakota argued that all historical forms of money were imperfect attempts at creating a system for remembering what value was owed to which person: "in the monetary environment, money is merely a physical way of maintaining this balance sheet" [Kocherlakota, 1996].  

http://www.minneapolisfed.org/research/sr/sr218.pdf
https://www.minneapolisfed.org/research/qr/qr2231.pdf

He proves that under very general conditions "any allocation which is incentive-feasible in an environment with money is also incentive feasible when agents have access to memory" [Kocherlakota, 1996].  Tying this post back to the thread's topic "Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP." is easy:  Bitcoin is the first example of a technology that can implement Kocherlakota's "memory function" without the need for physical tokens (gold) [or the need for trust].  Bitcoin supersedes gold.

As the world slowly comes to recognize the usefulness of decentralized trustless ledgers, and later comes to understand money as an entry on such a ledger, I believe the detractors to the currency-aspect of bitcoin will lose their voice.  What could be better money be than entries on a global trustless Ledger, freely-accessible via bitcoin's protocol rules, and secured by the largest single-purpose computing network ever created?


I'll end with this comment that made me smile:



----------------
By the way, I've become a big fan of David Andolfatto since discovering his blog a few days ago.  He is an independent and critical thinker, asks questions when he doesn't understand something, and has a wealth of knowledge and insight to share.  He has three interesting articles related to bitcoin that I suggest you check out http://andolfatto.blogspot.ca

Run Bitcoin Unlimited (www.bitcoinunlimited.info)
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