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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 2009264 times)
sidhujag
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October 21, 2014, 07:02:31 PM
 #14141

"Bearer shares" are not lawful in any jurisdiction that I'm aware of.

Hmm, bearer shares are quite common. Of course, at certain moments the company learns who it's shareholders are at that time. What do you think listed shares are?

You quoted the wrong guy Wekkel...

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Peter R
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October 21, 2014, 07:03:57 PM
 #14142

"Bearer shares" are not lawful in any jurisdiction that I'm aware of.

Hmm, bearer shares are quite common. Of course, at certain moments the company learns who it's shareholders are at that time. What do you think listed shares are?

Prove it.  Cite one example of a jurisdiction where companies can presently issue bearer shares.  I think there may be some tax-haven type locations where it's still possible, but that's hardly "quite common."

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October 21, 2014, 07:09:58 PM
 #14143

All i have to say to that is... "That's a bit mad!"
Benjamin Fulford is not "a bit" mad...

Hehe.. ok, I didn't know him. Fully certifiably mad then, if he's like that all the time.

I'd love the BRICs to break up the Jekyll Island Cabal as much anybody but...

On a scale of 1 to Martin Armstrong, BF is 9.5 nutbars short of a moonbat.   Cheesy



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Wekkel
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October 21, 2014, 07:24:00 PM
 #14144

"Bearer shares" are not lawful in any jurisdiction that I'm aware of.

Hmm, bearer shares are quite common. Of course, at certain moments the company learns who it's shareholders are at that time. What do you think listed shares are?

Prove it.  Cite one example of a jurisdiction where companies can presently issue bearer shares.  I think there may be some tax-haven type locations where it's still possible, but that's hardly "quite common."

The Netherlands.

It's a common term at Investopedia: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/bearer_share.asp

I cannot imagine bearer shares are prohibited in the US or other Western countries. How would you list a company then?

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Cortex7
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October 21, 2014, 07:29:34 PM
 #14145

All i have to say to that is... "That's a bit mad!"
Benjamin Fulford is not "a bit" mad...

Hehe.. ok, I didn't know him. Fully certifiably mad then, if he's like that all the time.

I'd love the BRICs to break up the Jekyll Island Cabal as much anybody but...

On a scale of 1 to Martin Armstrong, BF is 9.5 nutbars short of a moonbat.   Cheesy

I find his "info leaks" very entertaining, like a good novel.

His father was a Canadian diplomat and he wrote for Forbes for quite a long time until he defected to Japan where he is quite popular to this day.

Of course he has a terrible reputation in the west, as any defector would. But the world is bigger than our own countries, some interesting stuff going on for sure. Time of change is afoot.

If you found that entertaining then here's something with more "substance" from a real Russian politician talk show, seems they are pissed with the sanctions and tooling up for a fight, trouble brewing:

Enable youtube captions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiOiSQG5iVY

Bottom line: buy and hold some Bitcoin (and gold or silver) and wait for the waters to settle in a decade or two.


Peter R
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October 21, 2014, 07:46:05 PM
 #14146

"Bearer shares" are not lawful in any jurisdiction that I'm aware of.

Hmm, bearer shares are quite common. Of course, at certain moments the company learns who it's shareholders are at that time. What do you think listed shares are?

Prove it.  Cite one example of a jurisdiction where companies can presently issue bearer shares.  I think there may be some tax-haven type locations where it's still possible, but that's hardly "quite common."

The Netherlands.

It's a common term at Investopedia: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/bearer_share.asp


It's a common term because bearer shares were used in the past and some are still in circulation.  Here's an excerpt from an IMF report regarding the status of bearer shares in the Netherlands:



Panama, Luxemburg, Isle of Man, and other locations where bearer share issuance was previously possible are also phasing them out.  

Quote
I cannot imagine bearer shares are prohibited in the US or other Western countries. How would you list a company then?

Ownership is transferred from one registered entity to another.  

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notme
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October 21, 2014, 07:58:32 PM
 #14147

"Bearer shares" are not lawful in any jurisdiction that I'm aware of.

Hmm, bearer shares are quite common. Of course, at certain moments the company learns who it's shareholders are at that time. What do you think listed shares are?

Prove it.  Cite one example of a jurisdiction where companies can presently issue bearer shares.  I think there may be some tax-haven type locations where it's still possible, but that's hardly "quite common."

The Netherlands.

It's a common term at Investopedia: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/bearer_share.asp


It's a common term because bearer shares were used in the past and some are still in circulation.  Here's an excerpt from an IMF report regarding the status of bearer shares in the Netherlands:



Panama, Luxemburg, Isle of Man, and other locations where bearer share issuance was previously possible are also phasing them out.  

Quote
I cannot imagine bearer shares are prohibited in the US or other Western countries. How would you list a company then?

Ownership is transferred from one registered entity to another.  

So much for "publicly tradable".

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sidhujag
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October 21, 2014, 08:20:49 PM
 #14148

Again I believe these are companies issuing shares for raising funds or profits... PTS/AGS may have legal issues which were used to raise funds... but not bitshares which is not a company but a toolkit... if a company uses it to issue their own shares to raise funds then yes it falls into the category you claim.

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justusranvier
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October 21, 2014, 08:30:48 PM
 #14149

So no anonymous shareholders, which complicates the use of blockchain-based share certificates.  "Bearer shares" are not lawful in any jurisdiction that I'm aware of. 

This is just one example.  I suspect anonymous asset-backed tokens are unlawful as well (and is probably the reason we haven't seen Brock Pierce's "real coins").  Download the applicable laws in any relevant jurisdiction, and the difficulty in navigating them should become clear.
Only the informal economy is going to benefit from most of these tools.
sidhujag
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October 21, 2014, 08:40:25 PM
 #14150

So no anonymous shareholders, which complicates the use of blockchain-based share certificates.  "Bearer shares" are not lawful in any jurisdiction that I'm aware of.  

This is just one example.  I suspect anonymous asset-backed tokens are unlawful as well (and is probably the reason we haven't seen Brock Pierce's "real coins").  Download the applicable laws in any relevant jurisdiction, and the difficulty in navigating them should become clear.
Only the informal economy is going to benefit from most of these tools.

You think so? Someone may want to use bitUSD because they work with USD and all partnerships are set up with USD... but get all of the benefits of transfering tokens across the blockchain with low fees and low latency etc etc... to me it seems opposite... it is geared towards bringing in the real economy as it stands today. This goes with nuBits/XCP/NXT whoever solves the problem first to reach the network effect.

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justusranvier
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October 21, 2014, 08:56:52 PM
 #14151

You think so? Someone may want to use bitUSD because they work with USD and all partnerships are set up with USD... but get all of the benefits of transfering tokens across the blockchain with low fees and low latency etc etc... to me it seems opposite... it is geared towards bringing in the real economy as it stands today. This goes with nuBits/XCP/NXT whoever solves the problem first to reach the network effect.
Those aren't what I was talking about.

I mean the ability for a company to raise funds by selling equity as bearer shares is one that only companies in the informal economy will benefit from.

That doesn't mean everybody who invents some kind of token-based financial instrument is doing something worthwhile. Most of the "assets" being traded on those platforms right now are worthless.
sidhujag
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October 21, 2014, 09:40:36 PM
 #14152

You think so? Someone may want to use bitUSD because they work with USD and all partnerships are set up with USD... but get all of the benefits of transfering tokens across the blockchain with low fees and low latency etc etc... to me it seems opposite... it is geared towards bringing in the real economy as it stands today. This goes with nuBits/XCP/NXT whoever solves the problem first to reach the network effect.
Those aren't what I was talking about.

I mean the ability for a company to raise funds by selling equity as bearer shares is one that only companies in the informal economy will benefit from.

That doesn't mean everybody who invents some kind of token-based financial instrument is doing something worthwhile. Most of the "assets" being traded on those platforms right now are worthless.

Ofcourse, if they weren't worthless we wouldn't even be talking about validity in the first place.

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smooth
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October 22, 2014, 12:26:05 AM
 #14153

I mean the ability for a company to raise funds by selling equity as bearer shares is one that only companies in the informal economy will benefit from.

Isn't this a near tautology? A company issuing bearer shares is very likely not compliant with securities laws and has therefore entered the informal economy if it wasn't there already.

The more interesting question is whether this will cause the informal economy to expand, or the definition to shift.

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October 22, 2014, 12:55:34 AM
 #14154

I mean the ability for a company to raise funds by selling equity as bearer shares is one that only companies in the informal economy will benefit from.

Isn't this a near tautology? A company issuing bearer shares is very likely not compliant with securities laws and has therefore entered the informal economy if it wasn't there already.

The more interesting question is whether this will cause the informal economy to expand, or the definition to shift.


Economies used to be mostly informal (free), before recent decades when computer technology has enabled governments to implement ever greater surveillance and micro-management of the financial sector, turning Orwell's 1984 from a warning into a road-map. Paper share certificates were similar to cash. Corporate share registers were intended to ensure that that people's holdings were secure, not provide a vector for state spying/control/censorship(AML) into people's financial affairs.

The definition of "informal" economy needs to shift back to the "free" economy it used to be.

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October 22, 2014, 06:50:01 AM
 #14155



How Japanese Hyperinflation Starts (In 1 Chart)

That new bitcoin exchange in Japan may be an example of perfect market timing.

dEBRUYNE
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October 22, 2014, 01:11:38 PM
 #14156

http://www.bnr.nl/nieuws/beurs/370560-1410/elf-banken-zakken-voor-stresstest-ecb

(Eleven banks fail ECB's stress test)

Unfortunately I can't find an english article yet.

EDIT: Found it: http://www.businessinsider.com/report-11-banks-are-about-to-fail-europes-biggest-ever-stress-tests-2014-10

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October 22, 2014, 01:57:31 PM
 #14157

silver may be making a premature break for it:

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October 22, 2014, 01:58:31 PM
 #14158

GDX & GDXJ have been hinting.  it feels too soon...
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October 22, 2014, 02:00:24 PM
 #14159

just over the first resistance line on the intermed term:

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October 22, 2014, 02:07:29 PM
 #14160

https://twitter.com/cypherdoc2/status/524924892077379586
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