[ANN] Bittrex / Poloniex / Cryptsy All Coin Trading Software, Quatloo Trader.

[colinfx]

Hello everyone!

I just noticed 2.1.1.4 is released, what are the changes/bug fixes applied since 2.1.1.3?

Thanks!

I copied the .exe over one of my markets but when I hit "Start" on advanced ping-pong I get an exception error. I'll go back to 2.1.1.3 and wait for 2.1.1.5!

I'm a new user and 2.1.1.4 seems to be working fine except for my Cryptsy interface. I see no markets and the Market drop down box is empty, anyone have any ideas?

Update: Figured out the Cryptsy issue, had to use the Application Key in the settings on Cryptsy, instead of the the API Key.

Thanks

Mmm... I tried it again, same problem. As soon as I press "Start" on "Advanced Ping Pong" on "Bittrex" I get an exception error. See here:



2.1.1.3 however works fine for me.

I'll check this error out.. I didn't get it when testing.  The improvement added was to ensure that the limit values would not be exceeded.  I should have another update out very soon.

Error appeared for me when I try and run more than one instance of the app at the same time on the same machine. At the moment I start auto pong on second instance with first one running.

I confirm that I too am trying to run more than one instance. v2.1.1.3 I can run many instances, with v2.1.1.4 only one instance can be run.

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[colinfx]

Hello everyone!

I just noticed 2.1.1.4 is released, what are the changes/bug fixes applied since 2.1.1.3?

Thanks!

I copied the .exe over one of my markets but when I hit "Start" on advanced ping-pong I get an exception error. I'll go back to 2.1.1.3 and wait for 2.1.1.5!

I'm a new user and 2.1.1.4 seems to be working fine except for my Cryptsy interface. I see no markets and the Market drop down box is empty, anyone have any ideas?

Update: Figured out the Cryptsy issue, had to use the Application Key in the settings on Cryptsy, instead of the the API Key.

Thanks

Mmm... I tried it again, same problem. As soon as I press "Start" on "Advanced Ping Pong" on "Bittrex" I get an exception error. See here:



2.1.1.3 however works fine for me.

I'll check this error out.. I didn't get it when testing.  The improvement added was to ensure that the limit values would not be exceeded.  I should have another update out very soon.

Great! The limit value bug is an ongoing issue in v2.1.1.3. If upper limit is set to 500, the first 500 purchase is made. Then, when they are put for sale, another 500 purchase is made as it seems the trader does not realise that 500 is already available but is "reserved" for sale and removed from the available quantity.

[MarKusRomanus]

I think you have a different understanding of how the stop limit works.  Explain what you think it should be doing.

[colinfx]

I think you have a different understanding of how the stop limit works.  Explain what you think it should be doing.

When I set "not more than" say, 500 coins, I presume that I will not own more than 500 coins.

But, I buy 500 coins, then the 500 coins go one sale, then the trader buys another 500 coins. So in fact, I have 1,000 coins even though I want to hold no more than 500 coins.

It seems the "not more than" figure does not count coins that are on sale, that's why it buys them again. I may be wrong, but, I always end up with at least twice the number of coins set in the "not more than" figure.

[kb4scv]

I would think that the limits stop the routine when the amount of coins goes over or under the applied limit.  That should result in you making one more buy or sell that puts you over or under the limit.  I think your 500 over because that is the buy that topped the upper limit.

I would suspect that it would be possible for Markus to have the limit set at a price +/- current order.

[Opnsrc]

I think you have a different understanding of how the stop limit works.  Explain what you think it should be doing.

When I set "not more than" say, 500 coins, I presume that I will not own more than 500 coins.

But, I buy 500 coins, then the 500 coins go one sale, then the trader buys another 500 coins. So in fact, I have 1,000 coins even though I want to hold no more than 500 coins.

It seems the "not more than" figure does not count coins that are on sale, that's why it buys them again. I may be wrong, but, I always end up with at least twice the number of coins set in the "not more than" figure.

I think all you need to do is set it to 499, and it will work for what your wanting to do.

[Reese212]

I think you have a different understanding of how the stop limit works.  Explain what you think it should be doing.

When I set "not more than" say, 500 coins, I presume that I will not own more than 500 coins.

But, I buy 500 coins, then the 500 coins go one sale, then the trader buys another 500 coins. So in fact, I have 1,000 coins even though I want to hold no more than 500 coins.

It seems the "not more than" figure does not count coins that are on sale, that's why it buys them again. I may be wrong, but, I always end up with at least twice the number of coins set in the "not more than" figure.

you're right with your assumption. the 2 limits "not more than" + "not less than" count the coins that you really own, the coins that are really in your balance. for example if you want to have "not more than = 1000" and in your balance are 900coins right now and you set the ping-pong to buy a random number of coins from 300 till 400 then you will end up with 1200 till 1300coins (if no coins were sold during that phase...).

solution is to substract the amount the ping-pong can buy from your "not more than" and to add the amount the ping-pong can sell to your "not less than".

[colinfx]

I think you have a different understanding of how the stop limit works.  Explain what you think it should be doing.

When I set "not more than" say, 500 coins, I presume that I will not own more than 500 coins.

But, I buy 500 coins, then the 500 coins go one sale, then the trader buys another 500 coins. So in fact, I have 1,000 coins even though I want to hold no more than 500 coins.

It seems the "not more than" figure does not count coins that are on sale, that's why it buys them again. I may be wrong, but, I always end up with at least twice the number of coins set in the "not more than" figure.

you're right with your assumption. the 2 limits "not more than" + "not less than" count the coins that you really own, the coins that are really in your balance. for example if you want to have "not more than = 1000" and in your balance are 900coins right now and you set the ping-pong to buy a random number of coins from 300 till 400 then you will end up with 1200 till 1300coins (if no coins were sold during that phase...).

solution is to substract the amount the ping-pong can buy from your "not more than" and to add the amount the ping-pong can sell to your "not less than".

To try to get to hold a maximum of 500, I set the buy quantity to 500 and set the max to 2, but, after 500 is purchased, then placed on sale, another 500 is purchased. If someone has a way around this problem do let me know! For now, I simply hold 2x the number of coins I wish to hold.

[MarKusRomanus]

I will try to explain how the stop value limits work...
  The value you set is a value that, when the AVAILABLE balance of the coin goes above or below that amount, the buying (or selling) will stop.  it effectively keeps you available balance between 2 values.

Say you have no coins at all.  Say you set the Ask stop value ( the sell orders auto placed) at 0 and the Bid stop value (the buy orders auto placed) at 100.  Ok... and say the sell and buy rates you set are 10.  You will only ever have a max of 110 coins in the available balance, but that doesn't mean you will only ever own that much.  Yes you can have 10 for sale and 10 bid to buy on top of all that.  In my scenario,  the auto function will always place new sell orders since the stop value is 0, but buys will not be placed after you go above 100 in your available balance. I can create variants to this concept by using the total available + on order coins, sure.  Until then, If you understand how it is working, you should be able to get what you want done just as well.  Pick your bid, ask order rates at the right amounts to slowly wean profits from selling and buying in the spread, use the spread limit too!  Use the stop values to keep the buying and selling within a window.

[colinfx]

I will try to explain how the stop value limits work...
  The value you set is a value that, when the AVAILABLE balance of the coin goes above or below that amount, the buying (or selling) will stop.  it effectively keeps you available balance between 2 values.

Say you have no coins at all.  Say you set the Ask stop value ( the sell orders auto placed) at 0 and the Bid stop value (the buy orders auto placed) at 100.  Ok... and say the sell and buy rates you set are 10.  You will only ever have a max of 110 coins in the available balance, but that doesn't mean you will only ever own that much.  Yes you can have 10 for sale and 10 bid to buy on top of all that.  In my scenario,  the auto function will always place new sell orders since the stop value is 0, but buys will not be placed after you go above 100 in your available balance. I can create variants to this concept by using the total available + on order coins, sure.  Until then, If you understand how it is working, you should be able to get what you want done just as well.  Pick your bid, ask order rates at the right amounts to slowly wean profits from selling and buying in the spread, use the spread limit too!  Use the stop values to keep the buying and selling within a window.

Thank you for the detailed explanation. I am trading the entire quantity each time, buying/selling lots of 500 and I only want to hold one lot of 500, not two lots. I dont want to be holding bags of coins. So, when 500 are bought, I dont want to buy anymore until they are sold.

[Reese212]

I think you have a different understanding of how the stop limit works.  Explain what you think it should be doing.

When I set "not more than" say, 500 coins, I presume that I will not own more than 500 coins.

But, I buy 500 coins, then the 500 coins go one sale, then the trader buys another 500 coins. So in fact, I have 1,000 coins even though I want to hold no more than 500 coins.

It seems the "not more than" figure does not count coins that are on sale, that's why it buys them again. I may be wrong, but, I always end up with at least twice the number of coins set in the "not more than" figure.

you're right with your assumption. the 2 limits "not more than" + "not less than" count the coins that you really own, the coins that are really in your balance. for example if you want to have "not more than = 1000" and in your balance are 900coins right now and you set the ping-pong to buy a random number of coins from 300 till 400 then you will end up with 1200 till 1300coins (if no coins were sold during that phase...).

solution is to substract the amount the ping-pong can buy from your "not more than" and to add the amount the ping-pong can sell to your "not less than".

To try to get to hold a maximum of 500, I set the buy quantity to 500 and set the max to 2, but, after 500 is purchased, then placed on sale, another 500 is purchased. If someone has a way around this problem do let me know! For now, I simply hold 2x the number of coins I wish to hold.

And this is a correct behaviour of the trader.
I guess the following scenario suits for you:
a) you have 0 Blackcoins (=BC)
b) you want to play with BC, so you say to the trader to buy 500BC every 600seconds
c) the trade occurs, now you have 500BC in your balance
d) at this exact time, because you want to play with BC, the trader also sets an order to sell 500BC --> that means, that you have 0 BC in your balance
e) your "not more than" is set to "2", and because of your balance is "0" at this moment, the trader places an order to buy 500BC
f) now it can happen that your buy-order gets filled before your sell-order gets filled --> that means that you have now 1000BC in your balance
g) the trader won't set a new buy-order of 500BC because now your balance is greater than "2".

You must look at the "not more than" and "not less than" in a different way (not trying to offend you..), these 2 numbers don't represent your maximum and minimum holdings of BC. If you never want to own (owning=amount in your balance + amount locked in your buy-order) more than 500BC, then the number you fill in the filed called "not more than" must be 50% of the amount you allow the trader to buy via ping-pong.

Read again this sentence, it's the solution :-):  substract the amount the ping-pong can buy from your "not more than" and add the amount the ping-pong can sell to your "not less than".


hope it helps!

[drakoin]

A question to those who own 3000 QTL - has the bot actually made your balance grow? How many of you have (1) won, (2) lost, (3) stayed on the same balance while using it?


I am asking and need to know because
(a) I LOST money with my QTL investment because of the price drop, and need to make that money back, and why not by using the bot, and
(b) my bot was useless since the upgrade v1 to v2, because the limit was raised from 1000 QTL to 3000 QTL, and I would not really be able to afford the full amount of 3000 QTL, if that coin is collapsing even more, but
(c) I need to make money urgently, and that's what this bot is for - right? So I am willing to continue to try it out now, and
(d) right now the QTL price is lower than it has been in weeks, so now might be the time to buy more, up to 3000?

As you can see in my postings #286 and #117, I was very willing to help improve this bot. Until I got locked out of using its essential functions with my existing QTL balance.

But first I would like to hear if it's worth the risk, to invest even more. The bot does work technically, yes - but does it work financially? Which of its functions are making you money, and details: What is your strategy/exact settings? Thanks a lot!

BTW: Not FUD, at all. I am really interested in this, just with a critical mindset, and very little money available to me.

Thanks a million.

[colinfx]

I think you have a different understanding of how the stop limit works.  Explain what you think it should be doing.

When I set "not more than" say, 500 coins, I presume that I will not own more than 500 coins.

But, I buy 500 coins, then the 500 coins go one sale, then the trader buys another 500 coins. So in fact, I have 1,000 coins even though I want to hold no more than 500 coins.

It seems the "not more than" figure does not count coins that are on sale, that's why it buys them again. I may be wrong, but, I always end up with at least twice the number of coins set in the "not more than" figure.

you're right with your assumption. the 2 limits "not more than" + "not less than" count the coins that you really own, the coins that are really in your balance. for example if you want to have "not more than = 1000" and in your balance are 900coins right now and you set the ping-pong to buy a random number of coins from 300 till 400 then you will end up with 1200 till 1300coins (if no coins were sold during that phase...).

solution is to substract the amount the ping-pong can buy from your "not more than" and to add the amount the ping-pong can sell to your "not less than".

To try to get to hold a maximum of 500, I set the buy quantity to 500 and set the max to 2, but, after 500 is purchased, then placed on sale, another 500 is purchased. If someone has a way around this problem do let me know! For now, I simply hold 2x the number of coins I wish to hold.

And this is a correct behaviour of the trader.
I guess the following scenario suits for you:
a) you have 0 Blackcoins (=BC)
b) you want to play with BC, so you say to the trader to buy 500BC every 600seconds
c) the trade occurs, now you have 500BC in your balance
d) at this exact time, because you want to play with BC, the trader also sets an order to sell 500BC --> that means, that you have 0 BC in your balance
e) your "not more than" is set to "2", and because of your balance is "0" at this moment, the trader places an order to buy 500BC
f) now it can happen that your buy-order gets filled before your sell-order gets filled --> that means that you have now 1000BC in your balance
g) the trader won't set a new buy-order of 500BC because now your balance is greater than "2".

You must look at the "not more than" and "not less than" in a different way (not trying to offend you..), these 2 numbers don't represent your maximum and minimum holdings of BC. If you never want to own (owning=amount in your balance + amount locked in your buy-order) more than 500BC, then the number you fill in the filed called "not more than" must be 50% of the amount you allow the trader to buy via ping-pong.

Read again this sentence, it's the solution :-):  substract the amount the ping-pong can buy from your "not more than" and add the amount the ping-pong can sell to your "not less than".


hope it helps!

You summed it all up in one small statement "these 2 numbers don't represent your maximum and minimum holdings" - this is exactly how I was thinking it operated!

Thank you for all your patience with me guys!

[Reese212]

You summed it all up in one small statement "these 2 numbers don't represent your maximum and minimum holdings" - this is exactly how I was thinking it operated!

Thank you for all your patience with me guys!

Strike! Increased my karma today :-D
I thought exactly the same way you did. In germany we have a saying "sometimes you can't see the forest because there are so many trees standing in front of you" - guess that suits for both of us ;-)

[kb4scv]

I have used the Ping-Pong with the default amounts on cheap coins (worth enough that 40 and 35 are not dust trades!) and let it run.  It accumulates coins when price drops and Bitcoin when price is rising.  You do have to watch and pick your in and out to make profits.  Mostly, I accumulate on coins that I think might spike and when I get an amount I like, I hold for a pump or small jump in price.  It works, but like I said, you have to pay attention.

At this point, I think its good to point out, the Trader program started as a common interface for the different exchanges.  If you look at it in this way, use it to pick your orders in and out of coins at the different exchanges, you will realize that it is mostly a tool to make it easier to do this at this point.  Most of my gains come from being able to look at specific orders on the book and using my strategies with the quickness of being able to hit buy or sell.  I find that on the two exchanges that I started with early, it was often hard to do this with the way they were set up, I felt that I was having to set an order and take a guess at it more or less.  I am sure that if you are used to it, or good at it on the exchange, you don't feel this way, but with QTL it is the same on all exchanges now and that helped me a lot.

The automated features at this point are more or less "helpers" that allow you to let the program make buys and sells in particular coins you are tracking and investing in.  As Markus builds in suggestions and routines that he has in mind, these auto features will get more and more powerful and likely allow you to move towards letting the Trader run more on its own when you figure out how to approach the coins you are interested in.  To this end, it is great that Markus takes the community suggestions into account as he builds the Trader.

As far as investing in QTL at this time, remember that it will rise and fall like they all do.  The upside here is that sooner or later, the Trader will get to a point where it consistently makes enough money that it will be obviously worth the price to most people who find it.  With tons of suggestions and feedback, I have no doubt about that.  There are Bots for sale out there that have to be working since many people buy into them, so there is no reason to believe that this will not get to that level.  

The big difference is that buying a program from someone for Bitcoin is ensuring that that Bitcoin is gone whether or not the program works, even assuming they don't hit you up for more as the features that they feel like letting you use are added.  Here, you get to be involved in making the program and there is always the possibility that the success of the Trader pays you off as well as the value of the coin, which has to rise if demand for the Trader goes way up. Just like diversifying with the coins, I like that here there are two chances to make profit down the road.  Even better, do like I did and use the trader to make yourself twice as many QTL as you will need for most expensive version, than you can always run the Trader and you have coins to sell for profit.

Here, if you have an idea that will make the Trader function more profitably, it can be requested to be added and chances are Markus will take you up on it.  It is in his and your best interest to do so.  With other programs, you rarely get that benefit.  I think that with all the coins out there now, this is a brilliant idea and its time is here. If people want to hang back and watch, then I think the people that got in early and stuck with Markus are going to be very happy.  

Remember also, that the plan is to keep adding exchanges for the Trader and that QTL will hopefully be added to more exchanges for trade.  The word will get out as this grows.  I think at this point it is a sleeping giant.  Yes, people have seen it, but I think many haven't realized what it will be and I also think that as time goes on here, this will be a great intro for new people in coins.  That will likely be where the push will come from down the road. As the amount of users grow, it will attract the bigger investors, as coins always do when they climb in value.

I am also sure there are good Traders out there that have figured out how to use this much better than I have.  If we are lucky, some of them will share their strategies, but I would not hold my breath in this business!  Those that are making the money aren't likely to just show us all how its done!  This is one that you have to study and learn.  However, with Billions in Bitcoin, there is most definitely money out there to chase!  Good luck.

[Reese212]

A question to those who own 3000 QTL - has the bot actually made your balance grow? How many of you have (1) won, (2) lost, (3) stayed on the same balance while using it?


I am asking and need to know because
(a) I LOST money with my QTL investment because of the price drop, and need to make that money back, and why not by using the bot, and
(b) my bot was useless since the upgrade v1 to v2, because the limit was raised from 1000 QTL to 3000 QTL, and I would not really be able to afford the full amount of 3000 QTL, if that coin is collapsing even more, but
(c) I need to make money urgently, and that's what this bot is for - right? So I am willing to continue to try it out now, and
(d) right now the QTL price is lower than it has been in weeks, so now might be the time to buy more, up to 3000?

As you can see in my postings #286 and #117, I was very willing to help improve this bot. Until I got locked out of using its essential functions with my existing QTL balance.

But first I would like to hear if it's worth the risk, to invest even more. The bot does work technically, yes - but does it work financially? Which of its functions are making you money, and details: What is your strategy/exact settings? Thanks a lot!

BTW: Not FUD, at all. I am really interested in this, just with a critical mindset, and very little money available to me.

Thanks a million.

i lost more money than i earned while using the trader. BUT this is, as you've already stated, not the bot's fault (technically it is working as expected). It's simply impossible to fill in the fileds when you have opened the bot with numbers, walk away and come back and have 1.1BTC instead of 1BTC. This is exactly what i did, i walked away. I didn't lose much, i was pretty sure this could happen but i wanted to see it. And i wanted to see it "on the long term", it evens out a bit, but overall a little loss for me because of my wrong strategy. Well wait, it's not impossible, but this scenario only (not 100% only, but more likely) happens in a bull-market (bull market = a market that is increasing). And also not the whole time because even if it is a bull market there will be some times where the price drops (the price of a coin can't only rise "inside a green candle", there are seconds where the price drops and there are seconds where the price climbs up). If the market becomes a bear market (=a falling market) then your ping-pong makes you (not 100% always, but more likely) lose money.

But there's more than only the financial side: i'm trading on a laptop (3 year old i5processor, 3 year old 8gb laptop-ram, external display) and it is nearly impossible to work if i have chrome with 10 tabs + IE with 10 tabs + opera with some tabs open (but i need these tabs to be open in order to see fast what i want to see). QuatlooTrader eliminates my whole chrome with 10 opened tabs because i can see every necessary information inside the bot (well ok i have to use the dropdown-field instead of just clicking my different tabs, but that's ok). The next one is "seeing in one window where are arbitrage opportunities" - ok, this only earns you money if you have the same altcoin + bitcoin lying around at every exchange, but nevertheless it's a possibility to make money.

There's another big feature of the bot, it's called "Markus", the developer. "Don't invest in a coin, invest in a developer" - everybody has heard of that, and it's correct :-) Not because i say so, but because markus has proven more than once that he is willing (and also has done) to implement features that we mention here.

Imagine the following: if i am very lucky then markus would implement the following feature, maybe even with his next big update "mid to late september" (i'm sure he will when the time is ready because there was at least 1 other person in this thread asking about that, and it's not a stupid feature at all): a new field where i can tell the bot to sell the coin it has bought 5 minutes ago for a xx% higher price. With this feature i can make sure that i won't lose money on a trade itself. Don't get me wrong, this isn't the holy grail because it is still possible to lose money (imagine when a market doesn't rise for a long time but then i need my btc back because my car exploded and i need a new one then it could happen that i need to sell the coin for a lower price than i bought). This feature would only prevent losing money from the trade (=placing a buy-order and placing a sell-order) itself, not from my complete trading activities. This would be, in my opinion, the killer-feature of the QuatlooTrader.

That being said, and also thinking about markus will add this killer-feature when the time is ready, i would suggest to buy some extra QTL because for me this feature is so very ultra useful that it could possibly cost more than 3000QTL to have it unlocked.

[kb4scv]

I suspect that down the road, one or two features will end up exploding the value of the Trader, whether they come from one of us, or are stumbled on by pure luck, or Markus implements one of his plans.  Any one of these ways work.

[TheGer]

Confirmed issue in 2.1.1.4 and  had same issue in 2.1.02.  Did not try in between versions.

I have a 3K balance of QTL on Poloniex(only QTL used in this Trader version).  When using the trader at intermittent times the program will stall because it think that I don't have the required QTL balance.  It will no longer allow any use of the program because it doesn't even detect having 1K for manual trading.  This has occurred when I have my QTL on the sell market(at an amount that will not sell, just to hold it there) and when it just sits in my available balance while I trade other coins.  

I'm not sure what's happening but maybe there is some miscommunication between the program calls through the API and Poloniex.  Strange thing is that I have another set of 3K QTL split between Bittrex and Polniex for trading and those have no issues(completely separate API's trading different coins).

[cyaadz]

Would love a mac version, I know you say it's not in development, but i really think it would be a killer move. Most traders use macs because of their security if you get this done, expect the price of qtl to x10.

[colinfx]

Would love a mac version, I know you say it's not in development, but i really think it would be a killer move. Most traders use macs because of their security if you get this done, expect the price of qtl to x10.

I am 100% Mac OSX user, I *HATE* Windows...But, for this app it was worth installing Win7 on an old laptop, try it out, you'll never look back