[ANN] Bittrex / Poloniex / Cryptsy All Coin Trading Software, Quatloo Trader.

[vegasguy]

Ive been at this now a few hours . have 20k Quatloo on bittrex. Have .7 btc on Bittrex and Polonex. Added all the markets. put all my api keys in with full permissions. It scans and finds trades it can arbitrage. but every trade it tries returns with "fail exceeded percentage allotted  for arbitrage". API permissions are set to full. Any ideas guys?!?! I feel, I am sooo close!!! I do have latest version.  Thank you.

Vegas

[loszhor]

I'm liking the program so far but is there a way to manually add exchanges such as BTER, Bleutrade, C-Cex, or others that I may wish to use? Also, is it possible to consistently trade more than one pairing automatically if I wanted to? Right now I am fine with one but I would like to know I had the option. I ask because noticed that sometimes when I switch the pairings while the bot is still running it will try to trade the pairing I am currently browsing. I'm not sure if that is a bug or intended. If it is not how might I avoid that issue without having to stop all trading. Also is it possible to have the bot trading for more than one site separately or would I perhaps need to open up a separate instance of Quatloo to do so and for the previously mentioned issue.

[loszhor]

Ive been at this now a few hours . have 20k Quatloo on bittrex. Have .7 btc on Bittrex and Polonex. Added all the markets. put all my api keys in with full permissions. It scans and finds trades it can arbitrage. but every trade it tries returns with "fail exceeded percentage allotted  for arbitrage". API permissions are set to full. Any ideas guys?!?! I feel, I am sooo close!!! I do have latest version.  Thank you.

Vegas

I am also new to this program but I will give you some troubleshooting options that helped me and it could not hurt to try:

1. Do you have exactly 20k QTL? I made sure to get a few more over the 3000 I needed for the trade bot functionality to ensure that I do not get a margin of error on the required amount.

2. Did you try restarting the program or the PC entirely? I had errors when I first started up Quatloo but the stopped after I restarted the program. I also restart the program each time I save a key.

3. Is your .NET 4.5 Framework installed a set up properly? This could cause problems if it is not. Many other programs I have thought didn't work did so after I found out that I needed to uninstall the older version before reinstalling the new one. Please check the .NET 4.5 Framework troubleshooting page before doing anything related to this.

4. Try "under trading" instead of the exact amounts needed. I am still getting error messages about the ping-pong failing but everything is working fine. One of the main culprits that was keeping it from working entirely was that I was trading pretty much the entire amount I had which ever currency I was dealing with at the time and leaving some "slack space" fixed the problem for me even though it never gave an indication that it was fixed because of that. Obviously this option is up to my personal opinion but it would not hurt to try.

5. Try refreshing the account amounts. Quatloo seems to have some delay for me when it is giving me user readable information. I may cancel the bot and the trades it had going at the moment but I would need to wait a few short moments before I can act on the information unless I just click the refresh button so that the data I put in will be accepted accurately.

6. Do another check on the API that you entered. I know you said you checked your API but just do another courtesy check. Cryptsy did not work fully with the trading bot until I made a separate "Application Key" and used that instead of the default credentials listed in my account. My understanding is that Cryptsy's security will sometimes interfere with such programs as this that require API access. So see if you need to make a separate kind of "API Key" for Quatloo-to-Site usage.

[vegasguy]

Ive been at this now a few hours . have 20k Quatloo on bittrex. Have .7 btc on Bittrex and Polonex. Added all the markets. put all my api keys in with full permissions. It scans and finds trades it can arbitrage. but every trade it tries returns with "fail exceeded percentage allotted  for arbitrage". API permissions are set to full. Any ideas guys?!?! I feel, I am sooo close!!! I do have latest version.  Thank you.

Vegas


I am also new to this program but I will give you some troubleshooting options that helped me and it could not hurt to try:

1. Do you have exactly 20k QTL? I made sure to get a few more over the 3000 I needed for the trade bot functionality to ensure that I do not get a margin of error on the required amount.

2. Did you try restarting the program or the PC entirely? I had errors when I first started up Quatloo but the stopped after I restarted the program. I also restart the program each time I save a key.

3. Is your .NET 4.5 Framework installed a set up properly? This could cause problems if it is not. Many other programs I have thought didn't work did so after I found out that I needed to uninstall the older version before reinstalling the new one. Please check the .NET 4.5 Framework troubleshooting page before doing anything related to this.

4. Try "under trading" instead of the exact amounts needed. I am still getting error messages about the ping-pong failing but everything is working fine. One of the main culprits that was keeping it from working entirely was that I was trading pretty much the entire amount I had which ever currency I was dealing with at the time and leaving some "slack space" fixed the problem for me even though it never gave an indication that it was fixed because of that. Obviously this option is up to my personal opinion but it would not hurt to try.

5. Try refreshing the account amounts. Quatloo seems to have some delay for me when it is giving me user readable information. I may cancel the bot and the trades it had going at the moment but I would need to wait a few short moments before I can act on the information unless I just click the refresh button so that the data I put in will be accepted accurately.

6. Do another check on the API that you entered. I know you said you checked your API but just do another courtesy check. Cryptsy did not work fully with the trading bot until I made a separate "Application Key" and used that instead of the default credentials listed in my account. My understanding is that Cryptsy's security will sometimes interfere with such programs as this that require API access. So see if you need to make a separate kind of "API Key" for Quatloo-to-Site usage.

Thank you for your support. Here are the answers to your suggestions.

FIRST: A bounty of .25 BTC to anyone that can get 3 way arb working. . To start: I have .7 BTC in polo and .7 BTC in Bittrex and 1btc in Crypsy.

1. Q: Do you have exactly 20k QTL? I made sure to get a few more over the 3000 I needed for the trade bot functionality to ensure that I do not get a margin of error on the required amount.
    A: Yes I have 20,300 QTL in my bittrex acct. Do I need EXACTLY 20,000? Should I sell the other 300?. Let me understand. I need only 20,000 QTL in just 1 of the 3 exchanges, and NOT 20,000 QTL in each of the exchanges correct?

2. Q: Did you try restarting the program or the PC entirely? I had errors when I first started up Quatloo but the stopped after I restarted the program. I also restart the program each time I save a key.
     A: I have restarted the program many times, I even restarted my entire PC today

3.  Is your .NET 4.5 Framework installed a set up properly?
    A: I had .NET 4.5 installed. I uninstalled it, and reinstalled .net 4.5.2 (latest). Just did that today to try to get this working, didnt help.

4. Q:Try "under trading" instead of the exact amounts needed. I am still getting error messages about the ping-pong failing but everything is working fine. One of the main culprits that was keeping it from working entirely was that I was trading pretty much the entire amount I had which ever currency I was dealing with at the time and leaving some "slack space" fixed the problem for me even though it never gave an indication that it was fixed because of that. Obviously this option is up to my personal opinion but it would not hurt to try.
   A: Ill be honest I dont understand ping pong, what its for or how it works. My only interest in arbitrage. Ive tried using 100% , 50% and 10% of my btc. None of them worked. Same error. Have not tried ping pong, I just dont get it.

5. Try refreshing the account amounts. Quatloo seems to have some delay for me when it is giving me user readable information. I may cancel the bot and the trades it had going at the moment but I would need to wait a few short moments before I can act on the information unless I just click the refresh button so that the data I put in will be accepted accurately.
A: Im just trying to use arb , and I think It has to refresh the accts anyway

6. Q: Do another check on the API that you entered. I know you said you checked your API but just do another courtesy check. Cryptsy did not work fully with the trading bot until I made a separate "Application Key" and used that instead of the default credentials listed in my account. My understanding is that Cryptsy's security will sometimes interfere with such programs as this that require API access. So see if you need to make a separate kind of "API Key" for Quatloo-to-Site usage.
A: This is GREAT information. Right now Im just trying to arb with Bittrex and Polo as I know they are much easier to work with, but I keep getting same error. I havent even tried cryptsy yet.
To be more specific all API options on Bittrex are green and turned on, poloneix says: API ACCESS IS ENABLED , and the option for "withdraw" is checked.
API for both Bittrex and Poloneix show correct balances, so that tells me my api keys are correct

Misc notes and updates I tried Bittrex and crypsy, it DOES scan and find arbs >1% (I have it set at 1%), but after scan, nothing happens in the grey box below, not even an error.
Noob question: do I need to create wallets for all the coins im trading on all the exchanges? I have only a few wallet addresses generated on some of the exchanges.
Note: I DO have 2FA enabled on all exchanges. I didnt read that this needed to be turned off.
When I try to arb Bittrex and Poloneix I get that error "failed , exceeded percentage alloted" when it scans and finds and arb, and tries to execute
When I try to arb  Bittrex and Cryptsy, it finds potential arbs >1% (Where I have it set), but nothing happends in the grey box below.
Tried 3 way arb. It finds potential arbs >1% and nothing happends in the grey box below, left it running for atleast 5 cycles.

@Dev: Everytime I launch software I have to load markets, and add each individual coin everythtime, one by one for each market. Can you have the software save the markets automatically each time I close the software would be better. Thank you.

Vegas

[cryptoconomist]

Ive been at this now a few hours . have 20k Quatloo on bittrex. Have .7 btc on Bittrex and Polonex. Added all the markets. put all my api keys in with full permissions. It scans and finds trades it can arbitrage. but every trade it tries returns with "fail exceeded percentage allotted  for arbitrage". API permissions are set to full. Any ideas guys?!?! I feel, I am sooo close!!! I do have latest version.  Thank you.

Vegas


I am also new to this program but I will give you some troubleshooting options that helped me and it could not hurt to try:

1. Do you have exactly 20k QTL? I made sure to get a few more over the 3000 I needed for the trade bot functionality to ensure that I do not get a margin of error on the required amount.

2. Did you try restarting the program or the PC entirely? I had errors when I first started up Quatloo but the stopped after I restarted the program. I also restart the program each time I save a key.

3. Is your .NET 4.5 Framework installed a set up properly? This could cause problems if it is not. Many other programs I have thought didn't work did so after I found out that I needed to uninstall the older version before reinstalling the new one. Please check the .NET 4.5 Framework troubleshooting page before doing anything related to this.

4. Try "under trading" instead of the exact amounts needed. I am still getting error messages about the ping-pong failing but everything is working fine. One of the main culprits that was keeping it from working entirely was that I was trading pretty much the entire amount I had which ever currency I was dealing with at the time and leaving some "slack space" fixed the problem for me even though it never gave an indication that it was fixed because of that. Obviously this option is up to my personal opinion but it would not hurt to try.

5. Try refreshing the account amounts. Quatloo seems to have some delay for me when it is giving me user readable information. I may cancel the bot and the trades it had going at the moment but I would need to wait a few short moments before I can act on the information unless I just click the refresh button so that the data I put in will be accepted accurately.

6. Do another check on the API that you entered. I know you said you checked your API but just do another courtesy check. Cryptsy did not work fully with the trading bot until I made a separate "Application Key" and used that instead of the default credentials listed in my account. My understanding is that Cryptsy's security will sometimes interfere with such programs as this that require API access. So see if you need to make a separate kind of "API Key" for Quatloo-to-Site usage.

Thank you for your support. Here are the answers to your suggestions.

FIRST: A bounty of .25 BTC to anyone that can get 3 way arb working. . To start: I have .7 BTC in polo and .7 BTC in Bittrex and 1btc in Crypsy.

1. Q: Do you have exactly 20k QTL? I made sure to get a few more over the 3000 I needed for the trade bot functionality to ensure that I do not get a margin of error on the required amount.
    A: Yes I have 20,300 QTL in my bittrex acct. Do I need EXACTLY 20,000? Should I sell the other 300?. Let me understand. I need only 20,000 QTL in just 1 of the 3 exchanges, and NOT 20,000 QTL in each of the exchanges correct?

2. Q: Did you try restarting the program or the PC entirely? I had errors when I first started up Quatloo but the stopped after I restarted the program. I also restart the program each time I save a key.
     A: I have restarted the program many times, I even restarted my entire PC today

3.  Is your .NET 4.5 Framework installed a set up properly?
    A: I had .NET 4.5 installed. I uninstalled it, and reinstalled .net 4.5.2 (latest). Just did that today to try to get this working, didnt help.

4. Q:Try "under trading" instead of the exact amounts needed. I am still getting error messages about the ping-pong failing but everything is working fine. One of the main culprits that was keeping it from working entirely was that I was trading pretty much the entire amount I had which ever currency I was dealing with at the time and leaving some "slack space" fixed the problem for me even though it never gave an indication that it was fixed because of that. Obviously this option is up to my personal opinion but it would not hurt to try.
   A: Ill be honest I dont understand ping pong, what its for or how it works. My only interest in arbitrage. Ive tried using 100% , 50% and 10% of my btc. None of them worked. Same error. Have not tried ping pong, I just dont get it.

5. Try refreshing the account amounts. Quatloo seems to have some delay for me when it is giving me user readable information. I may cancel the bot and the trades it had going at the moment but I would need to wait a few short moments before I can act on the information unless I just click the refresh button so that the data I put in will be accepted accurately.
A: Im just trying to use arb , and I think It has to refresh the accts anyway

6. Q: Do another check on the API that you entered. I know you said you checked your API but just do another courtesy check. Cryptsy did not work fully with the trading bot until I made a separate "Application Key" and used that instead of the default credentials listed in my account. My understanding is that Cryptsy's security will sometimes interfere with such programs as this that require API access. So see if you need to make a separate kind of "API Key" for Quatloo-to-Site usage.
A: This is GREAT information. Right now Im just trying to arb with Bittrex and Polo as I know they are much easier to work with, but I keep getting same error. I havent even tried cryptsy yet.
To be more specific all API options on Bittrex are green and turned on, poloneix says: API ACCESS IS ENABLED , and the option for "withdraw" is checked.
API for both Bittrex and Poloneix show correct balances, so that tells me my api keys are correct

Misc notes and updates I tried Bittrex and crypsy, it DOES scan and find arbs >1% (I have it set at 1%), but after scan, nothing happens in the grey box below, not even an error.
Noob question: do I need to create wallets for all the coins im trading on all the exchanges? I have only a few wallet addresses generated on some of the exchanges.
Note: I DO have 2FA enabled on all exchanges. I didnt read that this needed to be turned off.
When I try to arb Bittrex and Poloneix I get that error "failed , exceeded percentage alloted" when it scans and finds and arb, and tries to execute
When I try to arb  Bittrex and Cryptsy, it finds potential arbs >1% (Where I have it set), but nothing happends in the grey box below.
Tried 3 way arb. It finds potential arbs >1% and nothing happends in the grey box below, left it running for atleast 5 cycles.

@Dev: Everytime I launch software I have to load markets, and add each individual coin everythtime, one by one for each market. Can you have the software save the markets automatically each time I close the software would be better. Thank you.

Vegas

"fail exceeded percentage allotted  for arbitrage". that simply means that the trade needed was bigger than what you have as a % for your coins. meaning if you have 1BTC and 1LTC you enter 30% that's 0.3 BTC and 0.3LTC is allowed to be played and the arbitrage was larger than 0.3BTC or larger than 0.3LTC

To do arbitrage you need both BTC and the other coin on each exchanges. so for example if you try to arbitrage LTC/BTC you need BTC and LTC on each exchanges.

hope this help

[vegasguy]

Im still struggling to understand this. I was under the impression that all you needed was around 1 btc on each exchange, and 20k in QTL on one of them. When quatloo trader finds an arb, it uses the btc to buy the coins, and then transfers them to the sell exchange and sells them for btc. Otherwise why even have any BTC at all if the software does not buy? So the best arbs with highest percent spread change by the min. Its a different coin everytime. So in order to trade all coins on all exchanges, do I need to buy every coin that is shared on every exchange? That would be THOUSANDS of dollars. If so, how many coins of each? Its just that the best arb changes minute to minute. so I want to be able to play all the coins, if what your saying is true, this is going to be insanely expensive to have stashes of EVERY coin on ALL 3 exchanges?!?! Lets say that you have only 2 or 3 coins on the exchanges, does that mean you wait days or weeks for an arb above 1% for your specific coin to able to arb?!!?  Sorry still confused.

[cryptoconomist]

Im still struggling to understand this. I was under the impression that all you needed was around 1 btc on each exchange, and 20k in QTL on one of them. When quatloo trader finds an arb, it uses the btc to buy the coins, and then transfers them to the sell exchange and sells them for btc. Otherwise why even have any BTC at all if the software does not buy? So the best arbs with highest percent spread change by the min. Its a different coin everytime. So in order to trade all coins on all exchanges, do I need to buy every coin that is shared on every exchange? That would be THOUSANDS of dollars. If so, how many coins of each? Its just that the best arb changes minute to minute. so I want to be able to play all the coins, if what your saying is true, this is going to be insanely expensive to have stashes of EVERY coin on ALL 3 exchanges?!?! Lets say that you have only 2 or 3 coins on the exchanges, does that mean you wait days or weeks for an arb above 1% for your specific coin to able to arb?!!?  Sorry still confused.

"I was under the impression that all you needed was around 1 btc on each exchange, and 20k in QTL on one of them." and the other coin(s) you own. Also you don't need to have 1BTC on each exchange but you need to have some BTC

So let me explain with an example what arbitrage is

let say you are trying to arbitrage BTC/LTC then you are selling or Buying LTC on bittrex and buying or selling LTC on Poloniex so you need BTC and LTC on each exchanges... the software does not send BTC or any other coins to another exchange.

so for example ltc is at 0.00730/0.00731 on bittrex and 0.0085/0.0086 on poloniex

then since there is an arbitrage opportunity it will buy LTC on Bittrex at 0.00731 with the BTC you have and sell LTC on Poloniex at 0.0085 with the LTC you have

You Bought 10 ltc at 0.00731 (bittrex) and sold 10 LTC (poloniex) at 0.0085

You had let say 10LTC and 0.3BTC on each exchanges

after the trade you will have around (because I didn't count the exchange fees)

20LTC and 0.2269BTC on Bittrex

0LTC and 0.385BTC on Poloniex

so your total BTC has increase you had 0.6BTC (bittrex + Poloniex) now you have 0.6119

you made a successful arbitrage with a profit of 0.0119 BTC (minus exchange fees)

You understand?  

[vegasguy]

I do. Its not exactly what I thought it was. Maybe in the future? HINT HINT?

[infinitechaos]

I do. Its not exactly what I thought it was. Maybe in the future? HINT HINT?

The kind of arbitrage you are talking about is most often impossible.

By the time you submit a withdrawal to transfer coins to another exchange, the exchange processes the withdrawal, the transaction confirms on the blockchain, and the coins are credited to your account on the new exchange, the arbitration opportunity is most definitely gone.

This is why you need both BTC and the coin you are trying to arbitrage on each exchange. It allows for executing arbitrage in an instant.

[hussar]

that type of manual arbitrage sounds like what we were doing last year before Quatloo Trader. minus the alerts

@vegas. i have 2fa enabled and arbs are working here. i'm doing a coin that isn't on cryptsy so maybe start with one that's just bittrex-polo. my understanding is that cryptsy is in the process or maybe even finished updating their API version. go with 100% fund and 1% arb diff. Loszhor was saying to have more than 20000 QTL. I have more than 50000 to be safe. Lastly be patient as it may take some time for them to pop up. Hope this helps.

[cryptoconomist]

Sad to see this coin dying

it traded today at 12 Satoshi on Poloniex....

The dev is not working on this project anymore. All eyes are on CXC, last updates of QTL Trader were cosmetic and large investors have noticed.

[infinitechaos]

Sad to see this coin dying

it traded today at 12 Satoshi on Poloniex....

The dev is not working on this project anymore. All eyes are on CXC, last updates of QTL Trader were cosmetic and large investors have noticed.

The last update was on Dec. 31. That's 11 days ago.

There is no reason to suggest that the dev is no longer working on QTL trader. He may be busy with CXC, but that doesn't mean he's abandoned QTL.

It is sad indeed to see that someone sold QTL at 12 satoshi though.

[cryptoconomist]

Sad to see this coin dying

it traded today at 12 Satoshi on Poloniex....

The dev is not working on this project anymore. All eyes are on CXC, last updates of QTL Trader were cosmetic and large investors have noticed.

The last update was on Dec. 31. That's 11 days ago.

There is no reason to suggest that the dev is no longer working on QTL trader. He may be busy with CXC, but that doesn't mean he's abandoned QTL.

It is sad indeed to see that someone sold QTL at 12 satoshi though.

it went on a down trend since the last real update on Arb.

it was trading around 0.00014 at that time now it barely trade at 0.00002

I think price speak for itself

But yes dev. do small update which is better than nothing for sure

[hussar]

lol at whoever sold today on polo. i entered this coin about a week ago and i am happy to pick up any you may want to dump 

[tkon3]

Hey guys, im using this nice bot right now but i have troubles with Cryptsy, i can't get the list of all markets. The bot just says if i try to go to a market via my balance that the market doesnt exist, also the list is blank. Bittrex & Polo are working fine.
Any info about that ?

[cryptoconomist]

Hey guys, im using this nice bot right now but i have troubles with Cryptsy, i can't get the list of all markets. The bot just says if i try to go to a market via my balance that the market doesnt exist, also the list is blank. Bittrex & Polo are working fine.
Any info about that ?

For some coins there is no BTC market on Cryptsy so you can obviously not access it...  

Ex: MOON only MOON/LTC and MOON/XPR.

If you have a problem with the list of markets you have to check your API on Cryptsy

[tkon3]

Hey guys, im using this nice bot right now but i have troubles with Cryptsy, i can't get the list of all markets. The bot just says if i try to go to a market via my balance that the market doesnt exist, also the list is blank. Bittrex & Polo are working fine.
Any info about that ?

For some coins there is no BTC market on Cryptsy so you can obviously not access it...  

Ex: MOON only MOON/LTC and MOON/XPR.

If you have a problem with the list of markets you have to check your API on Cryptsy

The problem is that i have my balance info for Cryptsy but i cant access markets.
Ex : for the Cryptsy points, i see my balance but if i click on "go to this market BTC or LT"C i just get a "There is no BTC/LTC market for points". This is happening for all my coins.

[cryptoconomist]

Hey guys, im using this nice bot right now but i have troubles with Cryptsy, i can't get the list of all markets. The bot just says if i try to go to a market via my balance that the market doesnt exist, also the list is blank. Bittrex & Polo are working fine.
Any info about that ?

For some coins there is no BTC market on Cryptsy so you can obviously not access it...  

Ex: MOON only MOON/LTC and MOON/XPR.

If you have a problem with the list of markets you have to check your API on Cryptsy

The problem is that i have my balance info for Cryptsy but i cant access markets.
Ex : for the Cryptsy points, i see my balance but if i click on "go to this market BTC or LT"C i just get a "There is no BTC/LTC market for points". This is happening for all my coins.

Check your API on Cryptsy change it if necessary because it's working on my end which means it can only be a problem with your API

you can also close and restart the application it help sometimes

[tkon3]

Hey guys, im using this nice bot right now but i have troubles with Cryptsy, i can't get the list of all markets. The bot just says if i try to go to a market via my balance that the market doesnt exist, also the list is blank. Bittrex & Polo are working fine.
Any info about that ?

For some coins there is no BTC market on Cryptsy so you can obviously not access it...  

Ex: MOON only MOON/LTC and MOON/XPR.

If you have a problem with the list of markets you have to check your API on Cryptsy

The problem is that i have my balance info for Cryptsy but i cant access markets.
Ex : for the Cryptsy points, i see my balance but if i click on "go to this market BTC or LT"C i just get a "There is no BTC/LTC market for points". This is happening for all my coins.

Check your API on Cryptsy change it if necessary because it's working on my end which means it can only be a problem with your API

you can also close and restart the application it help sometimes

So i restarted the app as admin, used new different api keys. Im still getting in the log "error updating Cryptsy Markets'  
My account need to be verified on Cryptsy ?
Bittrex & Poloniex are still working fine.

[cryptoconomist]

Hey guys, im using this nice bot right now but i have troubles with Cryptsy, i can't get the list of all markets. The bot just says if i try to go to a market via my balance that the market doesnt exist, also the list is blank. Bittrex & Polo are working fine.
Any info about that ?

For some coins there is no BTC market on Cryptsy so you can obviously not access it...  

Ex: MOON only MOON/LTC and MOON/XPR.

If you have a problem with the list of markets you have to check your API on Cryptsy

The problem is that i have my balance info for Cryptsy but i cant access markets.
Ex : for the Cryptsy points, i see my balance but if i click on "go to this market BTC or LT"C i just get a "There is no BTC/LTC market for points". This is happening for all my coins.

Check your API on Cryptsy change it if necessary because it's working on my end which means it can only be a problem with your API

you can also close and restart the application it help sometimes

So i restarted the app as admin, used new different api keys. Im still getting in the log "error updating Cryptsy Markets'  
My account need to be verified on Cryptsy ?
Bittrex & Poloniex are still working fine.

don't know what to tell you it works fine on my end...

did you check the API privileges?