[ANN] [XMG] MAGI | CPU mining | mPoW | mPoS | [MagiPay]

[2cV5S3zAuz]

Good words Sy.
I stand by XMG. I have confidence in the developer and the community. XMG has only just begun. Great things will come. In my eyes it is still a unique currency.

I'll second that.

Count me in

sometimes it's good to be late
..and I'm with you guys

[Lightsplasher]

This graph summarizes the PoS-II.

The percentage is calculated based on the base of 5,000,000 XMG, for exampe, 0.1% means 5,000 XMG in a transaction.

I guess I'm a bit confused about what the rate PoS-II is paying.  The chart has coin age on the left and days on the bottom (are days how long PoS has run from start at block 10080?).  The colored bars are pretty; pretty confusing at least for me.  Does PoS-II take precedence over PoW blocks and crowd them out partially to maintain the block time as other PoS coins do?  If I invest in this coin will I be earning 5% annually after 100 days?  It looks like it is paying as high as 10 percent for holding coins 5 days initially is this right?  Is this chart a proposed change or is this how things are working now? Thanks in advance for any explanations.

[dukektm]

The point is, everyone (me included) is mining for the wrong reasons nowadays, we don't mine anymore for idealistic reasons or to strengthen a network, if the numbers don't add up we stop mining - and that's the main flaw.

In the beginning BTC was mined for fun, there was no real money in it, people just used their spare time, others did folding for example, they just liked the idea...

So what i am trying to say, it should basicly be unimportant what the current price is, if you think this is nice - keep one miner instance running and just ignore the market - you will accumulate enough over time to make it worth your while IF this plays out - and that's the whole story, if you don't think the coin is nice and interesting you just shouldn't mine it imho ^^

Just came from a typical weekly meeting (every Monday or Tuesday morning), back & forth discussion on non-conclusive stuffs, kinda boring; just seen many posts popped up.

I was a bit depressed too in the last few days as to the price. Some people on this coin are most likely just mining, dumping, and then moving to the next coin. Fortunately we have many people who are around not solely for this purpose. All their supports are the reason that XMG is and remain to be here.

For people who care about the price, we may need to notice the connection with the daily trading volume. We need to work out some more exchanges along that, as well as to make XMG to be known by more people. Following are the exchanges you can vote for XMG: 

https://www.cryptsy.com/coinvotes/
https://bter.com/voting

https://www.cryptsy.com/coinvotes/       vote 24-25 

[joelao95]

Well said, Joe!! Proud to be supporting you and the Magi community.

I think this gives us a great outlook on the transparency involved with Magi, and the future with what is to come.  I think all was stated well, and we as a community need to continue providing feedback on mining, engaging in community marketing, and helping magi get noticed everywhere.

I'm going to bump up a few posts; we need others to help out.  if anyone is interested in helping with marketing and taking my direction on a community level; send me a msg. I know I was going to help out a few people with other developments like Android; however, I got tied up this past week, and going to be busy in the coming days. I prefer to help engage with people within the community who know what is magi, how it works, and wants direction on marketing it.

I'm going to also give you a bounty out of my pocket for helping towards it. Please send me a pm to discuss.

Thanks Sam, we do need other people's support to help on the marketing etc.

[joelao95]

I have an update in mind regarding the mining algo. The current block-rewarding system is basically resistant to even higher hashrate. This makes generic computer still minable, though ROI remains to be a concern. I am looking into some kind of numerical computation algo which would be even unlikely programmable for the GPU. Initial attempt was made by using Fortran, however we got compiling issue and had been dropped off. I will make one more try on this (fully implemented with C++) to make us even safe with CPU mining.

lol again ?  

First: Why ? There is no gpu running on it, this coin is already cpu only...

Second: Why do you think gpu are bad at doing numerical computation ?
For your information: http://www.mathworks.com/discovery/matlab-gpu.html

 

Hi DJM, thanks for commenting. I am glad and other miners will be glad too as you comment:

Code:

There is no gpu running on it, this coin is already cpu only...

http://scicomp.stackexchange.com/questions/6853/do-currently-available-gpus-support-double-precision-floating-point-arithmetic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General-purpose_computing_on_graphics_processing_units

The implementations of floating point on Nvidia GPUs are mostly IEEE compliant; however, this is not true across all vendors.[9] This has implications for correctness which are considered important to some scientific applications. While 64-bit floating point values (double precision float) are commonly available on CPUs, these are not universally supported on GPUs; some GPU architectures sacrifice IEEE compliance while others lack double-precision altogether. There have been efforts to emulate double-precision floating point values on GPUs; however, the speed tradeoff negates any benefit to offloading the computation onto the GPU in the first place.[10]

We will kill most of GPUs by having above if they do exist. In addition to that, I am pretty sure numerical computation in resolving scientific problems can't be handled fully by parallel computation.

[joelao95]

3. PoS-II initialted at block 10,080

This graph summarizes the PoS-II.

The percentage is calculated based on the base of 5,000,000 XMG, for exampe, 0.1% means 5,000 XMG in a transaction.

I guess I'm a bit confused about what the rate PoS-II is paying.  The chart has coin age on the left and days on the bottom (are days how long PoS has run from start at block 10080?).  The colored bars are pretty; pretty confusing at least for me.  Does PoS-II take precedence over PoW blocks and crowd them out partially to maintain the block time as other PoS coins do?  If I invest in this coin will I be earning 5% annually after 100 days?  It looks like it is paying as high as 10 percent for holding coins 5 days initially is this right?  Is this chart a proposed change or is this how things are working now? Thanks in advance for any explanations.

This chart is already working now. The bottom axis is the staking days actually. PoS has block time of 1.5 min; once PoS is initiated, the block chain will go faster than what it is now. The interest rate is the same for all, however difference comes from the coin age; the PoS earnings are proportional to coin ages and annual interest (see below). The maximum coin age for one who holds 10% of total coins is 6 times less than one who holds 0.1% of total coins. 0.1% holder gets the maximum coin age at 30th day. However, the 10% holder gets the maximum coin age at ~5th day, at 20th he will get nearly negligible coin age. This means for one having 10% coins in stake, he must carrier out transactions to continue staking.

[djm34]

I have an update in mind regarding the mining algo. The current block-rewarding system is basically resistant to even higher hashrate. This makes generic computer still minable, though ROI remains to be a concern. I am looking into some kind of numerical computation algo which would be even unlikely programmable for the GPU. Initial attempt was made by using Fortran, however we got compiling issue and had been dropped off. I will make one more try on this (fully implemented with C++) to make us even safe with CPU mining.

lol again ?  

First: Why ? There is no gpu running on it, this coin is already cpu only...

Second: Why do you think gpu are bad at doing numerical computation ?
For your information: http://www.mathworks.com/discovery/matlab-gpu.html

 

Hi DJM, thanks for commenting. I am glad and other miners will be glad too as you comment:

Code:

There is no gpu running on it, this coin is already cpu only...

http://scicomp.stackexchange.com/questions/6853/do-currently-available-gpus-support-double-precision-floating-point-arithmetic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General-purpose_computing_on_graphics_processing_units

The implementations of floating point on Nvidia GPUs are mostly IEEE compliant; however, this is not true across all vendors.[9] This has implications for correctness which are considered important to some scientific applications. While 64-bit floating point values (double precision float) are commonly available on CPUs, these are not universally supported on GPUs; some GPU architectures sacrifice IEEE compliance while others lack double-precision altogether. There have been efforts to emulate double-precision floating point values on GPUs; however, the speed tradeoff negates any benefit to offloading the computation onto the GPU in the first place.[10]

We will kill most of GPUs by having above if they do exist. In addition to that, I am pretty sure numerical computation in resolving scientific problems can't be handled fully by parallel computation.

lol what is your problem exactly with gpu's ? (we need a psy... ) Did you get bitten by one when you were little ?  

Do you have an array of botnet that you need to protect and that's why you want absolutely no gpu ?
No matter what it will hurt first the small miner (again...) those who gets 40kh and gets a coin a day, because no matter what it will cost in term of hashrate to a non existing gpu miner, it will impact a lot more them.  

In your hatred against gpu (or gpu dev ) you are killing the profit of your base supporter (but not those of botnets and big whales)...
And I won't mention that the coin is highly unprofitable to them (or you need to tell me where you buy your cpu's... because the last time I checked they were, the good one I mean, a lot more expensive than gpu's)

Sorry, I don't want to call you a moron or else but someone who changes his algo every two-three weeks has a problem...
hopefully, the pow phase will be over soon (unless you change your mind on that too...) and this stupid behaviour will hopefully stop with that.
(you will be left playing with %age of pos, which will be a lot less funny)

[Spexx]

lol what is your problem exactly with gpu's ? (we need a psy... ) Did you get bitten by one when you were little ?  

Do you have an array of botnet that you need to protect and that's why you want absolutely no gpu ?
No matter what it will hurt first the small miner (again...) those who gets 40kh and gets a coin a day, because no matter what it will cost in term of hashrate to a non existing gpu miner, it will impact a lot more them.  

In your hatred against gpu (or gpu dev ) you are killing the profit of your base supporter (but not those of botnets and big whales)...
And I won't mention that the coin is highly unprofitable to them (or you need to tell me where you buy your cpu's... because the last time I checked they were, the good one I mean, a lot more expensive than gpu's)

Sorry, I don't want to call you a moron or else but someone who changes his algo every two-three weeks has a problem...
hopefully, the pow phase will be over soon (unless you change your mind on that too...) and this stupid behaviour will hopefully stop with that.
(you will be left playing with %age of pos, which will be a lot less funny)

I appreciate that this was meant in good humour, but it is all a bit rich coming from someone who is throwing 2.6 Mh/s at this coin right now. Did someone say botnet? That equates to something in the region of 200 CPU cores working away at it. BTW my 40 Kh/s earns rather more than 1 coin per day. There really seems little point in developing a GPU miner for this algo, simply because if the total network hashrate is above a threshold value around 45 Mh/s, the block reward plummets from 300 coins per block to just 5 coins per block. Throw too much hash at this coin and you, basically, screw it up for everybody including yourself. Furthermore, GPUs are not exactly energy efficient either. With this coin, you have to work smart, not hard.

[Mashugina71]

You can have your bot farms. I'm hashing away on my trusty



So NYAHH

[joelao95]

What's the problem with you DJM, have we changed algo since launch? I don't think you really use your brain to think! And I am really impressed by what your personality you are! I really hope you are a guy being here to help, but I am wrong. If you don't like this coin, just go for another. Is that difficult for you!?

And did you remember your comments in this thread long time ago, really not helpful, I assume you just behave that way. If you think I am against a gpu dev like you, you're wrong; I am never against any person, just look around. Since we launched this coin as cpu mining, I just try to keep it the way as it should be. If you want to discuss something Magi needs gpu or not, go for another thread, let people vote. I totally agree with what's being decided..

[Spexx]

You can have your bot farms. I'm hashing away on my trusty



So NYAHH

Pmsl

[djm34]

What's the problem with you DJM, have we changed algo since launch? I don't think you really use your brain to think!

not sure what part of my body I use to think, but even if you didn't change your algo since launch (3 weeks ago... that's insane thinking of changing after 3 weeks   sorry can't get passed that...)  however you did change the source at least 3 times in the last 12 hours before launch...  
(so yes, I still think, I use my brain when I think you have problem making up your mind... )

And did you remember your comments in this thread long time ago, really not helpful, I assume you just behave that way. If you think I am against a gpu dev like you, you're wrong; I am never against any person, just look around. Since we launched this coin as cpu mining, I just try to keep it the way as it should be. If you want to discuss something Magi needs gpu or not, go for another thread, let people vote. I totally agree with what's being decided..

I personally don't care if magi has a gpuminer or not (but I have been contacted by someone who had your authorisation to make one... for amd, it isn't like nobody is looking   ), what I don't like is that you want to change the rules of the game middle game.
And technically it will just hurt the small miner. People with large hashrate will still have large hashrate but since the decrease of the hashrate they will clearly make a lot more with your reward system...
  ok so may-be it is just that, decreasing the net hashrate so that big whale makes a lot more coin...  without hitting the 60MHash/s net hashrate....  
So actually by changing your algo you are even changing the "fair" distribution and reward system you put in place and sorry this seems fishy to me...

[wakhidNkcom]

ahh long time not showing up here.. okay i see that we have FUD now .. hmm okay maybe my experience with stuff like gpu or cpu is not so much like you are.. but the things is have you get problem with this coin algo ?? nope, absolutely no.. why i love this coin, is the algo (maybe you much better know than me) of this coin make people can mine it with vps (why must use your computer cpu while you can get chip vps for mining coin?) and next you may be know what happen while new coin have big hashrate from one miner (always die slowly because this miners)..
so the point is, why must hate something great while you can help this to be more great...

that is it..


regards

wakhidNKcom
#magifans

[djm34]

lol what is your problem exactly with gpu's ? (we need a psy... ) Did you get bitten by one when you were little ? 

Do you have an array of botnet that you need to protect and that's why you want absolutely no gpu ?
No matter what it will hurt first the small miner (again...) those who gets 40kh and gets a coin a day, because no matter what it will cost in term of hashrate to a non existing gpu miner, it will impact a lot more them. 

In your hatred against gpu (or gpu dev ) you are killing the profit of your base supporter (but not those of botnets and big whales)...
And I won't mention that the coin is highly unprofitable to them (or you need to tell me where you buy your cpu's... because the last time I checked they were, the good one I mean, a lot more expensive than gpu's)

Sorry, I don't want to call you a moron or else but someone who changes his algo every two-three weeks has a problem...
hopefully, the pow phase will be over soon (unless you change your mind on that too...) and this stupid behaviour will hopefully stop with that.
(you will be left playing with %age of pos, which will be a lot less funny)

I appreciate that this was meant in good humour, but it is all a bit rich coming from someone who is throwing 2.6 Mh/s at this coin right now. Did someone say botnet? That equates to something in the region of 200 CPU cores working away at it. BTW my 40 Kh/s earns rather more than 1 coin per day. There really seems little point in developing a GPU miner for this algo, simply because if the total network hashrate is above a threshold value around 45 Mh/s, the block reward plummets from 300 coins per block to just 5 coins per block. Throw too much hash at this coin and you, basically, screw it up for everybody including yourself. Furthermore, GPUs are not exactly energy efficient either. With this coin, you have to work smart, not hard.

wow that much standard cpu's... I have a very strong one from a very good batch I guess, I still help it doing the division on paper by hand to gain a few more hashs  
You should be more worried by the guys who have hasharte arund 8~10MHash... because 1000cpu core is quite huge... (actually it is the reason I think that cpu coin are in general a bad idea, it just end up to be the private business of a server owner... something you can't see at that scale with gpu coin (even if there are also large gpu farm)

[Spexx]

I personally don't care if magi has a gpuminer or not (but I have been contacted by someone who had your authorisation to make one... for amd, it isn't like nobody is looking   ), what I don't like is that you want to change the rules of the game middle game.
And technically it will just hurt the small miner. People with large hashrate will still have large hashrate but since the decrease of the hashrate they will clearly make a lot more with your reward system...
  ok so may-be it is just that, decreasing the net hashrate so that big whale makes a lot more coin...  without hitting the 60MHash/s net hashrate....  
So actually by changing your algo you are even changing the "fair" distribution and reward system you put in place and sorry this seems fishy to me...

Authorisation? Poppycock. The code is open source. Anyone can have a go at converting it to GPU if they so desire, but when you look at the bigger picture you soon realise that it makes no sense to do so. Imho you just don't "get" this coin at all and have failed to wrap your head around some of the very original concepts involved. Personally I love this coin and think the block reward system is a stroke of genius. Brute force hashing will get you nowhere and it is not worth your while, so I would humbly suggest that the energy be expended on more profitable pursuits with another coin. I say again - throw too much hash at this coin and you screw it up for everybody including yourself.

Edit: Yes ... I am more concerned with those miners chugging away at 8 ~ 10 Mh/s, but anything over 2 Mh/s is definitely having a negative impact. I would like to see miners voluntarily limiting themselves to 2 Mh/s max, preferably much less.

[djm34]

I personally don't care if magi has a gpuminer or not (but I have been contacted by someone who had your authorisation to make one... for amd, it isn't like nobody is looking  ), what I don't like is that you want to change the rules of the game middle game.
And technically it will just hurt the small miner. People with large hashrate will still have large hashrate but since the decrease of the hashrate they will clearly make a lot more with your reward system...
  ok so may-be it is just that, decreasing the net hashrate so that big whale makes a lot more coin...  without hitting the 60MHash/s net hashrate.... 
So actually by changing your algo you are even changing the "fair" distribution and reward system you put in place and sorry this seems fishy to me...

Authorisation? Poppycock. The code is open source. Anyone can have a go at converting it to GPU if they so desire, but when you look at the bigger picture you soon realise that it makes no sense to do so. Imho you just don't "get" this coin at all and have failed to wrap your head around some of the very original concepts involved. Personally I love this coin and think the block reward system is a stroke of genius. Brute force hashing will get you nowhere and it is not worth your while, so I would humbly suggest that the energy be expended on more profitable pursuits with another coin. I say again - throw too much hash at this coin and you screw it up for everybody including yourself.

say you have a botnet, it costs you nothing to run, on low hashrate you makes a lot coin, but if the hashrate increases even further, you still get a few coin but nobody else gets any coin. 

And those who will stop mining are the small miner first, they were getting a bunch of coins, but they get none after that....

So basically, it is a system which can be controled entirely by botnet.
They gets coins, and they have the mean by increasing the hashrate, to make impossible to anybody else to get coins. 
So they control also the scarcity of the coin.

And this is where the whole "fair distribution of the coin"  fails entirely.
The distribution in my opinion is very unfair (I get my fair share of coins sure... but it isn't the case for the small miner those who like the coin (well big whales are in the coin for profit not for love...

[joelao95]

See DJM, this is the open source world, no one makes a rule for something; how many changes has darkcoin made at the beginning? Even Richard Stallman needs to keep improving his source code. I am not keeping doing this personally as I like, since people like to mine with cpu, I want keep that. I won't expect any further changes regarding the algo in the future after this.

From the miner point of view, algo change is really straightforward: upgrade his minerd; and the wallet too in order to receive coins. The advantage will be that we are even safe with cpu mining. I am really surprised why you reacted so much.

If one gets reduced hashrate due to the algo change, the same things happen to all other miners; please don't get people wrong at this point, why should "People with large hashrate will still have large hashrate". Surely we also need to make changes to the rewarding system to match with algo. Your guess on this is really not standing. Any person can argue with me about the fairness, while the change I want to make to try making it fair. Just think about the changing to be made, I really think why shouldn't we consolidate the cpu mining while we can.

[Spexx]

say you have a botnet, it costs you nothing to run, on low hashrate you makes a lot coin, but if the hashrate increases even further, you still get a few coin but nobody else gets any coin. 

And those who will stop mining are the small miner first, they were getting a bunch of coins, but they get none after that....

So basically, it is a system which can be controled entirely by botnet.
They gets coins, and they have the mean by increasing the hashrate, to make impossible to anybody else to get coins. 
So they control also the scarcity of the coin.

And this is where the whole "fair distribution of the coin"  fails entirely.
The distribution in my opinion is very unfair (I get my fair share of coins sure... but it isn't the case for the small miner those who like the coin (well big whales are in the coin for profit not for love...

Well some of the small miners are very persistent and in it for the long haul if they are wise. Something I noticed was that big 10 Mh/s anonymous miner (it's you isn't it, lol ) went off the air for a while and the block rewards immediately went up - I mean way up - and us little people suddenly started getting a lot more coin while Mr Big was losing out. As soon as Mr Big came back, the block reward came down again - I mean way down. Mr Big shot himself in the foot and gave me a good laugh into the bargain.

Scarcity of the coin controlled by botnets? If so then they are doing a piss-poor job of it. It rather seems to me that there is a lot of coin being sold right now and the price has tumbled as a result. Let the pump-and-dump-jockeys have their day - it doesn't bother me that much and it was bound to happen. I can pick up some coin on the exchange at a bargain price thank you. I reckon we have something like 500 "small" miners involved here which, given a rough average of 50 Kh/s each makes up 25 Mh/s total and is a force to be reckoned with. "We" are bigger than Mr Big and can blow a very loud raspberry at him

[Bojcha]

See DJM, this is the open source world, no one makes a rule for something; how many changes has darkcoin made at the beginning? Even Richard Stallman needs to keep improving his source code. I am not keeping doing this personally as I like, since people like to mine with cpu, I want keep that. I won't expect any further changes regarding the algo in the future after this. �

From the miner point of view, algo change is really straightforward: upgrade his minerd; and the wallet too in order to receive coins. The advantage will be that we are even safe with cpu mining. I am really surprised why you reacted so much.

If one gets reduced hashrate due to the algo change, the same things happen to all other miners; please don't get people wrong at this point, why should "People with large hashrate will still have large hashrate". Surely we also need to make changes to the rewarding system to match with algo. Your guess on this is really not standing. Any person can argue with me about the fairness, while the change I want to make to try making it fair. Just think about the changing to be made, I really think why shouldn't we consolidate the cpu mining while we can.

See!? I was always right. Everyone that make profit from compiling private miner or have big pools (and i will say, dedicatedpool) will be against some "things".For example, things like i proposed erlier.

"Open Source" is not always rule for those people.

[Lightsplasher]

You can have your bot farms. I'm hashing away on my trusty



So NYAHH

Love the humor! Nice picture of retro computer, I enjoy mine too, heck I can even get a half a hash a sec out of my Dell XPS T750 pentium III when I blow the dust off it.  Well, something got to hold down the block chain; there's a high level of security built into these crusty old pieces of hardware! 

I'm working on my marketing blurb now: “Dear investors you can maybe possibly get 5% ROI as long as you don't hold too many coins in the same wallet, or if you do make sure you move them back and forth between your wallets every five days or Magi will get very upset and not pay - particularly during the full moon phase, moon eclipses and Mercury Retrograde...”     FYI – moon eclipses tonight and in mercury retrograde maybe that explains all the FUD.

I joke around but I really appreciate the hard work that everyone has put in to promote and develop this coin.  There is really no easy answer here, if there were the global economic situation would be much better I'm sure.  I feel like a lot of these things can be worked out and this is a very fun opportunity to test out what can work; I will try to make better suggestions if I can think of good solutions.