[XMR] Monero Speculation

[dEBRUYNE]

Are these projects related?

Is Moneta one of the private companies working with Blockstream?

"To my mind, Zerocoin and Zerocash are the low-hanging fruit of sidechains. Just transfer your bitcoin to a sidechain that implements one of those protocols, and voila, instant Bitcoin anonymity; you can send or receive money while maintaining mathematically perfect privacy."

The vision of the Moneta project is to help significantly advance Bitcoin technology as a sidechain. As a sidechain, we want to help people realize that it’s possible to make Bitcoin lightning-fast, far more private, and far more scalable. For example, people often think that Bitcoin is limited to 7 transactions per second and can never compete with Visa. With some changes to the protocol, we can increase that number one-hundred fold. Also, with increased scalability comes decreased transaction fees. Think of all the new marketplaces and behaviors that can arise if we can decrease Bitcoin’s transaction fees from the magnitude of cents to the magnitude of hundredths of a cent … We hope to convey that Bitcoin’s underlying protocol can in fact be advanced significantly — not just marginal improvements, but 10x or 100x improvements.

Is it associated with XMR in anyway?

No, and watch out for these guys (Moneta). Same guys as:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=846471.0

&

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=391031

This looks to be an actual privacy-centric side chain project, not an altcoin. Unless you have evidence to the contrary.

How come we can't just make XMR the privacy side chain? Some technical reason?

[1] https://news.bitcoin.com/first-implementation-zerocoin-released-introducing-moneta/, enough evidence in that article.

[2] If we make XMR the privacy sidechain we inheret Bitcoin's security model as well. In addition, I am not entirely sure if there are already viable methods available to secure the sidechain itself.

[americanpegasus]

Well it was still a good question. Did he get a good answer?

This is my new favorite blanket question to whenever Bitcoin maximalists say things like...  
  

• SIDECHAINS!
• LIGHTNING NETWORK!
• PRIVATE ADDRESSES!
• MAGMA BLASTS!
• ICE CRYSTALS!

...are going to make Monero obselete.  It's the "Satoshi's Coin's Test".  Will this let Satoshi move his coins without anyone knowing?  If the answer is no, I'm happy for you, but leave me alone.

[ArticMine]

...

This is my new favorite blanket question to whenever Bitcoin maximalists say things like...  
  

• SIDECHAINS!
• LIGHTNING NETWORK!
• PRIVATE ADDRESSES!
• MAGMA BLASTS!
• ICE CRYSTALS!

...are going to make Monero obselete.  It's the "Satoshi's Coin's Test".  Will this let Satoshi move his coins without anyone knowing?  If the answer is no, I'm happy for you, but leave me alone.

There is actually a even simpler answer to the above: 1 MB blocksize limit.

[dEBRUYNE]

...

This is my new favorite blanket question to whenever Bitcoin maximalists say things like...  
  

• SIDECHAINS!
• LIGHTNING NETWORK!
• PRIVATE ADDRESSES!
• MAGMA BLASTS!
• ICE CRYSTALS!

...are going to make Monero obselete.  It's the "Satoshi's Coin's Test".  Will this let Satoshi move his coins without anyone knowing?  If the answer is no, I'm happy for you, but leave me alone.

There is actually a even simpler answer to the above: 1 MB blocksize limit.

Even if that gets raised, 32 MB message limit.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Are these projects related?

Is Moneta one of the private companies working with Blockstream?

"To my mind, Zerocoin and Zerocash are the low-hanging fruit of sidechains. Just transfer your bitcoin to a sidechain that implements one of those protocols, and voila, instant Bitcoin anonymity; you can send or receive money while maintaining mathematically perfect privacy."

The vision of the Moneta project is to help significantly advance Bitcoin technology as a sidechain. As a sidechain, we want to help people realize that it’s possible to make Bitcoin lightning-fast, far more private, and far more scalable. For example, people often think that Bitcoin is limited to 7 transactions per second and can never compete with Visa. With some changes to the protocol, we can increase that number one-hundred fold. Also, with increased scalability comes decreased transaction fees. Think of all the new marketplaces and behaviors that can arise if we can decrease Bitcoin’s transaction fees from the magnitude of cents to the magnitude of hundredths of a cent … We hope to convey that Bitcoin’s underlying protocol can in fact be advanced significantly — not just marginal improvements, but 10x or 100x improvements.

Is it associated with XMR in anyway?

No, and watch out for these guys (Moneta). Same guys as:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=846471.0

&

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=391031

This looks to be an actual privacy-centric side chain project, not an altcoin. Unless you have evidence to the contrary.

How come we can't just make XMR the privacy side chain? Some technical reason?

[1] https://news.bitcoin.com/first-implementation-zerocoin-released-introducing-moneta/, enough evidence in that article.

[2] If we make XMR the privacy sidechain we inheret Bitcoin's security model as well. In addition, I am not entirely sure if there are already viable methods available to secure the sidechain itself.

Moneta has Roger Ver as an angel investor. Blockstream has $60mil+ to develop side chain technology. If it isn't XMR it'll be someone else I should think.

[iCEBREAKER]

I think we are gonna hit a new high soon but I wish we tanked for awhile until that wall douchbag dumps. I won't be buying for awhile.

I don't recommend trying to time the market, especially a particular market so arguably distorted by underpricing as Monero's.

Just buy your ticket, get on the train, and play on your smart-phone until it leaves the station.

Don't sit at the bar rationalizing just one more tasty margarita, because you might not have time to take care of the check when the all-aboard whistle blows.

[kanazawa]

I just want to say that Monero is a top notch currency, I believe in Monero since the beginning of this very full of information thread... I don't post anything here because it seems heavily technical, but I'm pretty happy to exchange a large amount of btc to Monero. I like altcoins like Monero and Ethereum (didn't bought ETH, just use graphic card to mine some). I bought 700XMR more than a year ago (price almost doubled) and it's so fuc**** cool to watch this moment A Big Hail to Monero !!!

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

I think we are gonna hit a new high soon but I wish we tanked for awhile until that wall douchbag dumps. I won't be buying for awhile.

I don't recommend trying to time the market, especially a particular market so arguably distorted by underpricing as Monero's.

Just buy your ticket, get on the train, and play on your smart-phone until it leaves the station.

Don't sit in the bar rationalizing just one more tasty margarita, because you might not have time to take care of the check when the all-aboard whistle blows.

What about Confidential Transactions and side chains? Won't this put a damper on the demand for alts like XMR?

Is a Blockstream vs. Monero war in our future??

[iCEBREAKER]

I think we are gonna hit a new high soon but I wish we tanked for awhile until that wall douchbag dumps. I won't be buying for awhile.

I don't recommend trying to time the market, especially a particular market so arguably distorted by underpricing as Monero's.

Just buy your ticket, get on the train, and play on your smart-phone until it leaves the station.

Don't sit in the bar rationalizing just one more tasty margarita, because you might not have time to take care of the check when the all-aboard whistle blows.

What about Confidential Transactions and side chains? Won't this put a damper on the demand for alts like XMR?

Not at all.  CT validates the idea there is an important distinction between (trivial) protocol-level fungibility and "100%" fungibility as commonly understood above and beyond the protocol, in the greater socioeconomic context.

Specific to XMR, Shen's work extending CT for use with ring signatures (RingCT) demonstrates the Monero Research Lab is a cryptographic powerhouse.

Besides ETH's binary sharding Patricia Trees, Monero's RingCT is the hottest (unclassified) tech in crypto.  And it is the more firmly grounded, less speculative/experimental/ambitious of the two.

[iCEBREAKER]

...

This is my new favorite blanket question to whenever Bitcoin maximalists say things like...  
  

• SIDECHAINS!
• LIGHTNING NETWORK!
• PRIVATE ADDRESSES!
• MAGMA BLASTS!
• ICE CRYSTALS!

...are going to make Monero obselete.  It's the "Satoshi's Coin's Test".  Will this let Satoshi move his coins without anyone knowing?  If the answer is no, I'm happy for you, but leave me alone.

There is actually a even simpler answer to the above: 1 MB blocksize limit.

FUD all you like.  Honey Badger is antifragile.  You can't make him give a shit.

That is a feature, not a bug.   

[ArticMine]

...

What about Confidential Transactions and side chains? Won't this put a damper on the demand for alts like XMR?

Is a Blockstream vs. Monero war in our future??

Ring Confidential Transactions (RingCT) will come to Monero. I consider this not a matter of if but when. It will also bring ring multisignature transactions. See Section 4.4 of  https://lab.getmonero.org/pubs/MRL-0005.pdf. I very much doubt that there will be a war between Blockstream and. Monero war in our future, since in order for the Blockstream technology to have any significant adoption on Bitcoin, Bitcoin still needs to address the blocksize scaling issue.

[americanpegasus]

In honor of our 666th page of our speculation topic, I'm going to make the following speculatory proclamation:  
  
LAST CHANCE TO BUY MONERO FOR LESS THAN 200k SATOSHI... EVER.

 
 
BLESSED CHILDREN EAT ADULTS. 
Until Word is Evil, for it transcends,
contradicts and debunks their pedantic academic
brainwashing, indoctrination and Educator taught
Tower of Babble.
********************************************
Nature outlaws word gods. Cubeless word is a
Trojan Horse. Singularity debunked by Time
Cube. 'Cube Spirit' is Almighty. Educators
are too damn stupid to know 4/16 Cube.
There is no Cubic teacher.
***************
Educators are evil people - for it debunks false
gods. Test Your God. Time Cube contradicts
god. Nature's Time Cube exposes evil.
Cubelessness is a counterfeit and fictitious evil
upon children. Teachers are hired evil word
worshiper. Humans are educated stupid and
indoctrinated evil. A pity about your mind.

[ArticMine]

...

FUD all you like.  Honey Badger is antifragile.  You can't make him give a shit.

That is a feature, not a bug.   

The market will be the ultimate judge of this.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

...

FUD all you like.  Honey Badger is antifragile.  You can't make him give a shit.

That is a feature, not a bug.   

The market will be the ultimate judge of this.

I heard Core's planning a hard fork to 2MB max block size for 2017. Did I hear wrong?

[ArticMine]

...
I heard Core's planning a hard fork to 2MB max block size for 2017. Did I hear wrong?

Yes this will buy Bitcoin some time, but the fundamental underlying issue still remains unresolved.

[americanpegasus]

I heard Core's planning a hard fork to 2MB max block size for 2017. Did I hear wrong?

 
 
I heard they've finally got tired of Saruman chopping them down.

[cAPSLOCK]

In honor of our 666th page of our speculation topic, I'm going to make the following speculatory proclamation:  
  
LAST CHANCE TO BUY MONERO FOR LESS THAN 200k SATOSHI... EVER.

 
 
BLESSED CHILDREN EAT ADULTS. 
Until Word is Evil, for it transcends,
contradicts and debunks their pedantic academic
brainwashing, indoctrination and Educator taught
Tower of Babble.
********************************************
Nature outlaws word gods. Cubeless word is a
Trojan Horse. Singularity debunked by Time
Cube. 'Cube Spirit' is Almighty. Educators
are too damn stupid to know 4/16 Cube.
There is no Cubic teacher.
***************
Educators are evil people - for it debunks false
gods. Test Your God. Time Cube contradicts
god. Nature's Time Cube exposes evil.
Cubelessness is a counterfeit and fictitious evil
upon children. Teachers are hired evil word
worshiper. Humans are educated stupid and
indoctrinated evil. A pity about your mind.

Holy fuck.  Did you drink a bottle of Dr Bronners Castile Soap while listening to Aphrodite's Child or what?

[Hueristic]

In honor of our 666th page of our speculation topic, I'm going to make the following speculatory proclamation:  
  
LAST CHANCE TO BUY MONERO FOR LESS THAN 200k SATOSHI... EVER.

 
 
BLESSED CHILDREN EAT ADULTS. 
Until Word is Evil, for it transcends,
contradicts and debunks their pedantic academic
brainwashing, indoctrination and Educator taught
Tower of Babble.
********************************************
Nature outlaws word gods. Cubeless word is a
Trojan Horse. Singularity debunked by Time
Cube. 'Cube Spirit' is Almighty. Educators
are too damn stupid to know 4/16 Cube.
There is no Cubic teacher.
***************
Educators are evil people - for it debunks false
gods. Test Your God. Time Cube contradicts
god. Nature's Time Cube exposes evil.
Cubelessness is a counterfeit and fictitious evil
upon children. Teachers are hired evil word
worshiper. Humans are educated stupid and
indoctrinated evil. A pity about your mind.

LOL, Was just skimming your post when I looked at the TV and on the TV a guy grabs a Demon mask and puts it on and shoots a guy. Talk about coincidental timing. Watching stan.lees.lucky.man.s01e05 .

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

...
I heard Core's planning a hard fork to 2MB max block size for 2017. Did I hear wrong?

Yes this will buy Bitcoin some time, but the fundamental underlying issue still remains unresolved.

If the issue is scaling, it effects us all eventually. If we're lucky.

[ArticMine]

...
If the issue is scaling, it effects us all eventually. If we're lucky.

No. There is a fundamental difference here between Bticoin and Monero. Monero has an adaptive blocksize limit that can scale with market demand by increasing supply for a price, while Bitcoin does not. In Bitcoin's case it does not matter that processing power, bandwidth, storage costs etc plunge in real price as they have over the last 60 years the blocksize is still fixed and requires a hard fork in order to change it. Bitcoin has hard coded the current technology into the protocol while Monero has not.

I always come back to the credit card analogy. It is like expecting the current transaction levels of the VISA network to work using the tabulating machine and punched card technology of the late 1940's / early 1950's. This is when the the Diners Club payment card was conceived and the first cards were issued. Bitcoin can easily become the Diner's Club of crypto-currency, while Monero at least is not prevented from becoming the VISA or MasterCard of crypto-currency.