[XMR] Monero Speculation

[Hueristic]

Tried to look at hitbtc market but 2 browsers slowed to a crawl, can anyone use that site? I only allowed JS directly from hitbtc domain (and that may have been too much!).

Contrary to popular opinion I quite like HitBTCs user access.. which browser are you using?  Fine on Chrome.

FF and Palemoon. Hmm, Slimbrowser works OK. I think it's one of my blockers interfering. I'm not willing to check it out though until I setup a sandbox. Thx

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[rangedriver]

Here’s Why "Don’t Buy Monero" Should Now Be Retired.

Anyone with even just a basic understanding of astrophysics knows that in order for a rocket to get to the moon it requires the passing of multiple stages: construction, ignition, liftoff and the dispensation of various different modules of the rocket before the final zero-gravitational stretch of just the moon-lander. (Or there abouts.)

The “Don’t Buy Monero” meme is one of those stages that has served us well as we continue our journey through the cosmos, but now has the potential to be a detriment and requires separation.

It was a wise-warning spawn out of responsible consideration for investors in an age where such investors might throw money at anything, with little consideration as to whether the technology was stable, secure, credible and of a moral foundation.

The basic understanding was: Look, this technology is experimental. You are not buying an iMac here. Anything, at any point in time could go seriously wrong and your “investment” would be genuinely at peril.

One only has to look at the recent CoinDash farce to appreciate how easily such calamities can arise, which is exactly the reason why Monero has consistently erred on the side of caution without the evangelical “Buy Me Buy Me” approach that typically tends to surround most projects in this space.

However, the counterpoint to this understanding is one of perceived confidence: “We don’t have the confidence in our project and neither should you so don’t invest.”

There is a point at which this projectable lack of confidence within a meme becomes detrimental to our long-term mission, particularly if combined with other memes that haven’t arisen from within, but elsewhere from nefarious actors, and wouldn’t be able to be detected as separate memes from the cursory glances of casual newcomers. (For example: “Don’t Buy Monero…. because MoneroLink” etc).

There is a point where we have to be able to say “Okay, we are now approaching a stage where we feel that the technological foundations of Monero are such that the usual common sense approaches to investing apply. We are confident that the Monero blockchain is reaching a stage where yes, you *can* trust this with your life as often cited as the example case-usage, and yes, in its capacity as a storage of wealth - a currency - it now has the supremacy over its competitors with a view for it being trusted as such.

I’m not necessarily advocating a complete U-turn and waving the “Buy Monero!” flag. But as the rocketship continues its mission and we can afford to make strategic dispensations with redundant novelty sound-bites, a progressive and intelligent rephrasing of our position could, and should, start to occur.

(In my opinion.)

[Billy Bunter]

Here’s Why "Don’t Buy Monero" Should Now Be Retired.

Anyone with even just a basic understanding of astrophysics knows that in order for a rocket to get to the moon it requires the passing of multiple stages: construction, ignition, liftoff and the dispensation of various different modules of the rocket before the final zero-gravitational stretch of just the moon-lander. (Or there abouts.)

The “Don’t Buy Monero” meme is one of those stages that has served us well as we continue our journey through the cosmos, but now has the potential to be a detriment and requires separation.

It was a wise-warning spawn out of responsible consideration for investors in an age where such investors might throw money at anything, with little consideration as to whether the technology was stable, secure, credible and of a moral foundation.

The basic understanding was: Look, this technology is experimental. You are not buying an iMac here. Anything, at any point in time could go seriously wrong and your “investment” would be genuinely at peril.

One only has to look at the recent CoinDash farce to appreciate how easily such calamities can arise, which is exactly the reason why Monero has consistently erred on the side of caution without the evangelical “Buy Me Buy Me” approach that typically tends to surround most projects in this space.

However, the counterpoint to this understanding is one of perceived confidence: “We don’t have the confidence in our project and neither should you so don’t invest.”

There is a point at which this projectable lack of confidence within a meme becomes detrimental to our long-term mission, particularly if combined with other memes that haven’t arisen from within, but elsewhere from nefarious actors, and wouldn’t be able to be detected as separate memes from the cursory glances of casual newcomers. (For example: “Don’t Buy Monero…. because MoneroLink” etc).

There is a point where we have to be able to say “Okay, we are now approaching a stage where we feel that the technological foundations of Monero are such that the usual common sense approaches to investing apply. We are confident that the Monero blockchain is reaching a stage where yes, you *can* trust this with your life as often cited as the example case-usage, and yes, in its capacity as a storage of wealth - a currency - it now has the supremacy over its competitors with a view for it being trusted as such.

I’m not necessarily advocating a complete U-turn and waving the “Buy Monero!” flag. But as the rocketship continues its mission and we can afford to make strategic dispensations with redundant novelty sound-bites, a progressive and intelligent rephrasing of our position could, and should, start to occur.

(In my opinion.)

Hear, Hear!

[comp]

Here’s Why "Don’t Buy Monero" Should Now Be Retired.

Anyone with even just a basic understanding of astrophysics knows that in order for a rocket to get to the moon it requires the passing of multiple stages: construction, ignition, liftoff and the dispensation of various different modules of the rocket before the final zero-gravitational stretch of just the moon-lander. (Or there abouts.)

The “Don’t Buy Monero” meme is one of those stages that has served us well as we continue our journey through the cosmos, but now has the potential to be a detriment and requires separation.

It was a wise-warning spawn out of responsible consideration for investors in an age where such investors might throw money at anything, with little consideration as to whether the technology was stable, secure, credible and of a moral foundation.

The basic understanding was: Look, this technology is experimental. You are not buying an iMac here. Anything, at any point in time could go seriously wrong and your “investment” would be genuinely at peril.

One only has to look at the recent CoinDash farce to appreciate how easily such calamities can arise, which is exactly the reason why Monero has consistently erred on the side of caution without the evangelical “Buy Me Buy Me” approach that typically tends to surround most projects in this space.

However, the counterpoint to this understanding is one of perceived confidence: “We don’t have the confidence in our project and neither should you so don’t invest.”

There is a point at which this projectable lack of confidence within a meme becomes detrimental to our long-term mission, particularly if combined with other memes that haven’t arisen from within, but elsewhere from nefarious actors, and wouldn’t be able to be detected as separate memes from the cursory glances of casual newcomers. (For example: “Don’t Buy Monero…. because MoneroLink” etc).

There is a point where we have to be able to say “Okay, we are now approaching a stage where we feel that the technological foundations of Monero are such that the usual common sense approaches to investing apply. We are confident that the Monero blockchain is reaching a stage where yes, you *can* trust this with your life as often cited as the example case-usage, and yes, in its capacity as a storage of wealth - a currency - it now has the supremacy over its competitors with a view for it being trusted as such.

I’m not necessarily advocating a complete U-turn and waving the “Buy Monero!” flag. But as the rocketship continues its mission and we can afford to make strategic dispensations with redundant novelty sound-bites, a progressive and intelligent rephrasing of our position could, and should, start to occur.

(In my opinion.)

Shift Gears

[CTTE]

Here’s Why "Don’t Buy Monero" Should Now Be Retired.

Anyone with even just a basic understanding of astrophysics knows that in order for a rocket to get to the moon it requires the passing of multiple stages: construction, ignition, liftoff and the dispensation of various different modules of the rocket before the final zero-gravitational stretch of just the moon-lander. (Or there abouts.)

The “Don’t Buy Monero” meme is one of those stages that has served us well as we continue our journey through the cosmos, but now has the potential to be a detriment and requires separation.

It was a wise-warning spawn out of responsible consideration for investors in an age where such investors might throw money at anything, with little consideration as to whether the technology was stable, secure, credible and of a moral foundation.

The basic understanding was: Look, this technology is experimental. You are not buying an iMac here. Anything, at any point in time could go seriously wrong and your “investment” would be genuinely at peril.

One only has to look at the recent CoinDash farce to appreciate how easily such calamities can arise, which is exactly the reason why Monero has consistently erred on the side of caution without the evangelical “Buy Me Buy Me” approach that typically tends to surround most projects in this space.

However, the counterpoint to this understanding is one of perceived confidence: “We don’t have the confidence in our project and neither should you so don’t invest.”

There is a point at which this projectable lack of confidence within a meme becomes detrimental to our long-term mission, particularly if combined with other memes that haven’t arisen from within, but elsewhere from nefarious actors, and wouldn’t be able to be detected as separate memes from the cursory glances of casual newcomers. (For example: “Don’t Buy Monero…. because MoneroLink” etc).

There is a point where we have to be able to say “Okay, we are now approaching a stage where we feel that the technological foundations of Monero are such that the usual common sense approaches to investing apply. We are confident that the Monero blockchain is reaching a stage where yes, you *can* trust this with your life as often cited as the example case-usage, and yes, in its capacity as a storage of wealth - a currency - it now has the supremacy over its competitors with a view for it being trusted as such.

I’m not necessarily advocating a complete U-turn and waving the “Buy Monero!” flag. But as the rocketship continues its mission and we can afford to make strategic dispensations with redundant novelty sound-bites, a progressive and intelligent rephrasing of our position could, and should, start to occur.

(In my opinion.)

Without being brash and turning into "Used Car Salesmen", I think we can state that "after being extremely cautious, we have confidence in the foundation that has been laid/built". Maybe not those exact words but that basic sentiment.

[smooth]

Here’s Why "Don’t Buy Monero" Should Now Be Retired.

It is still reasonable general audience advice. In one interview, I heard fluffypony add something to effect of "If you are an extreme speculator then sure go ahead and speculate". For anyone else, the advice is perfectly okay. This is not a proven asset, it isn't in a proven asset class. There can be bugs that completely destroy the currency.

As for "extreme speculators", I question how many people really are that. Extreme speculator to me, means that you know that your investment has a significant chance to lose all or most of its value and accept that when buying in. That takes significant financial and emotional preparation and resources. How many people here on the speculation thread raise a stink and declare XMR dead every time the price drops by 20-30% (still 70-80% less of a drop than the the full-loss scenario)? What happens when we see a 90% drop, as has happened to XMR before, and to BTC multiple times?

How about, "If you are going to be upset when your investment loses 20-30% of its value (not to mention 90% or more), then don't buy Monero"? In practice that's going to be the same thing for most of the audience.

[Billy Bunter]

Here’s Why "Don’t Buy Monero" Should Now Be Retired.

It is still reasonable general audience advice. In one interview, I heard fluffypony add something to effect of "If you are an extreme speculator then sure go ahead and speculate". For anyone else, the advice is perfectly okay. This is not a proven asset, it isn't in a proven asset class. There can be bugs that completely destroy the currency.

As for "extreme speculators", I question how many people really are that. Extreme speculator to me, means that you know that your investment has a significant chance to lose all or most of its value and accept that when buying in. That takes significant financial and emotional preparation and resources. How many people here on the speculation thread raise a stink and declare XMR dead every time the price drops by 20-30% (still 70-80% less of a drop than the the full-loss scenario)? What happens when we see a 90% drop, as has happened to XMR before, and to BTC multiple times?

How about, "If you are going to be upset when your investment loses 20-30% of its value (not to mention 90% or more), then don't buy Monero"? In practice that's going to be the same thing for most of the audience.

Or, more accurately, "...then don't buy any crypto currency." After all, this doesn't only apply to Monero. Which, I suppose, goes back to what rangedriver said in the first place.

[cryptodromeda]

Here’s Why "Don’t Buy Monero" Should Now Be Retired.

It is still reasonable general audience advice. In one interview, I heard fluffypony add something to effect of "If you are an extreme speculator then sure go ahead and speculate". For anyone else, the advice is perfectly okay. This is not a proven asset, it isn't in a proven asset class. There can be bugs that completely destroy the currency.

As for "extreme speculators", I question how many people really are that. Extreme speculator to me, means that you know that your investment has a significant chance to lose all or most of its value and accept that when buying in. That takes significant financial and emotional preparation and resources. How many people here on the speculation thread raise a stink and declare XMR dead every time the price drops by 20-30% (still 70-80% less of a drop than the the full-loss scenario)? What happens when we see a 90% drop, as has happened to XMR before, and to BTC multiple times?

How about, "If you are going to be upset when your investment loses 20-30% of its value (not to mention 90% or more), then don't buy Monero"? In practice that's going to be the same thing for most of the audience.

…and the general ball-park of caution / responsibility is fine. But when memes start appearing on Twitter where the words “Don’t Buy Monero” feature heavily (without context) then there is the potential for a problem… and protagonists of those words (if intended positively) need to reflect very carefully whether it will be received in the manner in which it is delivered.

There’s a big difference between offering responsible speculative advice, and inadvertently creating a confused and auto-toxic meme that will only hinder the project later on.

Specifically: As Monero’s promotional dimension moves into the arena of television interviews, we don’t want the host’s last words to be: “You heard it hear folks… Don’t Buy Monero.”

[KeyJockey]

Here’s Why "Don’t Buy Monero" Should Now Be Retired...

Wow, weird synchronicity just happened to me.

Just read amoebatron posted this, over on the Monero reddit, then immediately clicked my tab to check-in here in the BTCTalk Monero spec forum, refreshed page and saw same post (from rangedriver, same guy, hey bro... LOL)

Just kinda funny when shit like that happens

AGREE with the sentiment too, BTW... it's getting to be time now, finally, for *everyone* to have some Monero!

[smooth]

Or, more accurately, "...then don't buy any crypto currency." After all, this doesn't only apply to Monero. Which, I suppose, goes back to what rangedriver said in the first place.

No disagreement on the substance of that point...except for the fact that none of those other crypto currencies are our particular concern and people don't ask usually ask fluffypony whether they should buy them.

[Billy Bunter]

Here’s Why "Don’t Buy Monero" Should Now Be Retired.

It is still reasonable general audience advice. In one interview, I heard fluffypony add something to effect of "If you are an extreme speculator then sure go ahead and speculate". For anyone else, the advice is perfectly okay. This is not a proven asset, it isn't in a proven asset class. There can be bugs that completely destroy the currency.

As for "extreme speculators", I question how many people really are that. Extreme speculator to me, means that you know that your investment has a significant chance to lose all or most of its value and accept that when buying in. That takes significant financial and emotional preparation and resources. How many people here on the speculation thread raise a stink and declare XMR dead every time the price drops by 20-30% (still 70-80% less of a drop than the the full-loss scenario)? What happens when we see a 90% drop, as has happened to XMR before, and to BTC multiple times?

How about, "If you are going to be upset when your investment loses 20-30% of its value (not to mention 90% or more), then don't buy Monero"? In practice that's going to be the same thing for most of the audience.

…and the general ball-park of caution / responsibility is fine. But when memes start appearing on Twitter where the words “Don’t Buy Monero” feature heavily (without context) then there is the potential for a problem… and protagonists of those words (if intended positively) need to reflect very carefully whether it will be received in the manner in which it is delivered.

There’s a big difference between offering responsible speculative advice, and inadvertently creating a confused and auto-toxic meme that will only hinder the project later on.

Specifically: As Monero’s promotional dimension moves into the arena of television interviews, we don’t want the host’s last words to be: “You heard it hear folks… Don’t Buy Monero.”

Very good point. If we want the wider world to start taking Monero seriously, we need to bid farewell to the numerous in-jokes and historical references that few understand.

[comp]

Who can send me a link for the monero slack??

[dEBRUYNE]

Who can send me a link for the monero slack??

See:

https://monero.stackexchange.com/questions/2451/how-to-join-the-monero-slack

[Hueristic]

... If we want the wider world to start taking Monero seriously, we need to bid farewell to the numerous in-jokes and historical references that few understand.

Is it true?

[Billy Bunter]

... If we want the wider world to start taking Monero seriously, we need to bid farewell to the numerous in-jokes and historical references that few understand.

Is it true?

No. I'm talking bananas.

[noobtrader]

... If we want the wider world to start taking Monero seriously, we need to bid farewell to the numerous in-jokes and historical references that few understand.

Is it true?

No. I'm talking bananas.

you guys should really stop talking bananas and trolling your own coin  holder,  be more professional like Dash if you want mass adoption by the wider world.

[pönde]

... If we want the wider world to start taking Monero seriously, we need to bid farewell to the numerous in-jokes and historical references that few understand.

Is it true?

No. I'm talking bananas.

you guys should really stop talking bananas and trolling your own coin  holder,  be more professional like Dash if you want mass adoption by the wider world.

Billy Bunters bananas was I guess only irony for Hueristics question which also was possibly irony.

Billys points of in-jokes and historical references instead are true. Only insiders understand such. Such jokes must be left behind. At least outside of this thread. Even Monero could be the best coin technology available, that is not a reason to tell jokes about it. Because outsiders really do not understand them. I am serious about this. Just like noobtrader is.

[sui_generis]

Smooth has to be one of the biggest hypocrites in this space. Gets wealthy from cryptocurrency, then goes around and chides others for trying to do the same. To boot, he has the audacity to act morally superior about it.

[Hueristic]

... If we want the wider world to start taking Monero seriously, we need to bid farewell to the numerous in-jokes and historical references that few understand.

Is it true?

No. I'm talking bananas.

So without counting tokens like USDT (scary that anyone would trust that at all) has XMR been the most stable V/S USD even including BTC in the last 6 months? I think that is what really speaks the loudest when it comes to what will eventually replace BTC as a main transnational chain. I personally see BTC falling into nothing more than a store of value like any other asset that is not easily converted to liquidity, even with Segwit.

AFA being taken seriously, I personally still don't feel the interface is polished enough for mass adoption and therefore should not be pushed at all. We in the know forget alot that for the vast majority of adopters there will be a one time try out of the wallet and if they get frustrated they will never try again so it is important to get it right the first time. We all forget that we are in a speculation bubble and for all intents and purposes BTC is really the only coin that actually has mass adoption for use case and even that is insignificant compared to all other major stores of value. I wish there was a way to track the real traffic of coins that are used for actual purchases as I personally believe XMR is the #1 alt for that and that is really what matters in the long run. All speculation bubbles will eventually burst but this entire market is almost completely speculation and that is why IMO ETH has such a high value ATM. And the herd mentality is to gather together when the shit show hits so weak hands are going to run to fiat and those that can't convert to fiat will run to the highest cap as ETH has already proven to be centralized and willing to fork to protect the ignorant masses.

Anyway these are my current opinions and may be far off the mark.

BTW I like these links for reference on the BipWar (<<-- just made that up hope no-one else has coined it yet).

https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fi.epvpimg.com%2FjtWbgab.jpg&t=578&c=Pw7vOeZYvkyh2A
https://coin.dance/blocks

If anyone has better links post them please.

[pönde]

Monero - DefCon announcement video 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MoNwuE5q0g

I dont know what is this? I hope not any joke.