[XMR] Monero Speculation

[aminorex]

When BTC and XMR hit $100k/coin

Jim Bell fan?

Do you think we'll see those prices by the 2020 or 2024 halving?

I am not iCEBREAKER, but I do, by 2024. The reasons are many and intertwined, but in short the post-ww2 baby-boomers burn down their assets in decrepitude, creating crashes, and crashes cause CB printing, which create a dilemma: hyperinflation or crushing, strangling central economic control.  Either scenario is bullish, with the latter being the best case for black markets.  2024 is the demographic bottom, but it may take 4-8 years for any real recovery to occur.

Never forget: Only black markets matter.  Because only black markets are free markets, and it is only in free markets that unbiased price discovery can occur, without which malinvestments and inefficiencies of rents and licenses - ranging from the mild but worsening cases in the u.s. and e.u. today,  to the mass-starvation-inducing cases we have seen in China (1950-60s), Russia (1930-40s), Venezuela  (2010s), Zimbabwe (2000s), etc. - cause inequality to balloon, and productivity to crash.

I think it is difficult for modern Yanks and Europeans to comprehend the levels of disruption which they are about to experience.  The educational systems created by Dewey et filia are factories designed to produce good consumers and factory workers, but the underlying economic apparatus, what Marx would have called substructure, just doesn't need people to fill "bullshit jobs" any more.  There is some measure of realism in the Eastern Eurozone, because the Iron Curtain and the Soviet collapse have not entirely faded from memory, yet, from Vienna to Nome we have a population of consumers and tax donkeys which is so soft, so compliant, so dependent of the provision of their masters, that they simply cannot imagine a world in which the warm teat of the corporation/government is taken from them.  

Collapse is a process, not an event.  It began in 1971-75 when the gold standard was replaced by the petrodollar fiat system.  Since 1971 every U.S. generation has experienced an increase in labor burden and a decline in real wealth compensated only by technological hedonic factors and the emergence of the two-income, no parent, household.  Well, there is no more blood to be wrung from that latter stone, and technological progress is (1) obsoleting the worker and (2) still dependent on unsustainable resource equations.

In order for technological advance to drag us out of the hole we are in, we need functioning markets with functioning price discovery, and, in my opinion, a UBI.  To me the former implies hard, non-inflationary money, with privacy and fungibility baked in, while the latter implies an inflationary fiat or a freigeld which floats against the hard money.  I do not believe that a knowledge-based economy can function without both forms of currency, at least not without the adoption of a regime of continuous recurring atrocity (which is the current trend).  The former is required for capital formation, required to build enterprise and conduct research involving capital equipment, while the latter is required to support excess consumers.

[1714736327]

1714736327

[1714736327]

1714736327

[1714736327]

1714736327

[1714736327]

1714736327

[1714736327]

1714736327

[Billy Bunter]

DNM's aren't going away. The clientele for AB will simply move on to another vendor - a quick perusal of the DarkNetMarkets sub on reddit makes that abundantly clear. People are already clamoring for alternative suppliers.

The more police busts like this, the less complacent future vendors will be. Less complacency is bullish for Monero.

[comp]

Bought a shitload of monero on the dip. Other than BTC or Monero, maybe LTC, there is nothing but crap out there.

[KeyJockey]

When BTC and XMR hit $100k/coin

Jim Bell fan?

Heh... you beat me to it.

I was gonna post a link to some "ay pea" info after Ice made that comment, but thought better of it after realizing that certain powers-that-be who are very probably actively reading this (and many other) Monero internet threads... REALLY srsly DO NOT LIKE that line of thought NOT EVEN ONE LITTLE BIT...



We don't really want to bring that heat down on this thread, do we?  LOL

(BTW it's sufficient for the curious to just google "Jim Bell" and follow the links themselves...)

[Rakabel619]

Xmr should grow up . Even if the coin is mining through cpu , i know lot of miners who mine it and the coin in my opinion should grow up

[Billy Bunter]

Interesting graph on the % decline of cryptos since their ATH. Monero does extremely well by this metric.

https://twitter.com/WahWhoWah/status/884649780252745729

[cAPSLOCK]

Bought a shitload of monero on the dip. Other than BTC or Monero, maybe LTC, there is nothing but crap out there.

You just outlined my entire crypto portfolio (aside from a couple little gambits I do not expect to do anything).  And I can't believe I ended up in Litecoin.

[25hashcoin]

Bought a shitload of monero on the dip. Other than BTC or Monero, maybe LTC, there is nothing but crap out there.

LTC is literal dogshit. Just a copycat coin with 0 use cases that is already tainted by segwit.

I came in here to say XMR is dangerously undervalued right now it's crazy. Buying up more.

[amaral1977]

I´ve been following the thread for a while. The major caractheristic i see being appointed here for the success and mass adoption of Monero is the fact that it´s the most private coin. IMO if mass adoption would occur today the masses would rather have an easy to use coin than a very private coin. So you think in the future people will be increasingly concern with privacy or you see monero as an easier to use coin than the others?

[LennyCarl]

Universal Basic Income
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income

[25hashcoin]

I´ve been following the thread for a while. The major caractheristic i see being appointed here for the success and mass adoption of Monero is the fact that it´s the most private coin. IMO if mass adoption would occur today the masses would rather have an easy to use coin than a very private coin. So you think in the future people will be increasingly concern with privacy or you see monero as an easier to use coin than the others?

CLOAK txs are more anonymous than monero as I understand it.

[Febo]

I´ve been following the thread for a while. The major caractheristic i see being appointed here for the success and mass adoption of Monero is the fact that it´s the most private coin. IMO if mass adoption would occur today the masses would rather have an easy to use coin than a very private coin. So you think in the future people will be increasingly concern with privacy or you see monero as an easier to use coin than the others?

In future people will not even know they use cryptocurencies when they will transfer datas or whatever.   Those that will care about their privacy will or will provide services and will care fro privacy of their customers will ofcourse chose Monero.

What will be with monero that will be more expensive then some other. It will be same easy to use as  any other.

[phishead]

Do you think we'll see those prices by the 2020 or 2024 halving?

I am not iCEBREAKER, but I do, by 2024. The reasons are many and intertwined, but in short the post-ww2 baby-boomers burn down their assets in decrepitude, creating crashes, and crashes cause CB printing, which create a dilemma: hyperinflation or crushing, strangling central economic control.  Either scenario is bullish, with the latter being the best case for black markets.  2024 is the demographic bottom, but it may take 4-8 years for any real recovery to occur.

Never forget: Only black markets matter.  Because only black markets are free markets, and it is only in free markets that unbiased price discovery can occur, without which malinvestments and inefficiencies of rents and licenses - ranging from the mild but worsening cases in the u.s. and e.u. today,  to the mass-starvation-inducing cases we have seen in China (1950-60s), Russia (1930-40s), Venezuela  (2010s), Zimbabwe (2000s), etc. - cause inequality to balloon, and productivity to crash.

I think it is difficult for modern Yanks and Europeans to comprehend the levels of disruption which they are about to experience.  The educational systems created by Dewey et filia are factories designed to produce good consumers and factory workers, but the underlying economic apparatus, what Marx would have called substructure, just doesn't need people to fill "bullshit jobs" any more.  There is some measure of realism in the Eastern Eurozone, because the Iron Curtain and the Soviet collapse have not entirely faded from memory, yet, from Vienna to Nome we have a population of consumers and tax donkeys which is so soft, so compliant, so dependent of the provision of their masters, that they simply cannot imagine a world in which the warm teat of the corporation/government is taken from them.  

Collapse is a process, not an event.  It began in 1971-75 when the gold standard was replaced by the petrodollar fiat system.  Since 1971 every U.S. generation has experienced an increase in labor burden and a decline in real wealth compensated only by technological hedonic factors and the emergence of the two-income, no parent, household.  Well, there is no more blood to be wrung from that latter stone, and technological progress is (1) obsoleting the worker and (2) still dependent on unsustainable resource equations.

In order for technological advance to drag us out of the hole we are in, we need functioning markets with functioning price discovery, and, in my opinion, a UBI.  To me the former implies hard, non-inflationary money, with privacy and fungibility baked in, while the latter implies an inflationary fiat or a freigeld which floats against the hard money.  I do not believe that a knowledge-based economy can function without both forms of currency, at least not without the adoption of a regime of continuous recurring atrocity (which is the current trend).  The former is required for capital formation, required to build enterprise and conduct research involving capital equipment, while the latter is required to support excess consumers.

Interesting analysis as always... but I'm curious as to how a whole global, or even national society, can function on a UBI if that society were to use an asset like Monero or even Bitcoin as the new currency. It's not like everyone can afford to put out the same hash rate to mine... or if it should come from somewhere, where should it originally come from?

[r0ach]

I'm curious as to how a whole global, or even national society, can function on a UBI if that society were to use an asset like Monero or even Bitcoin as the new currency.

This will probably be the most unpopular post ever in the Monero thread, but why would you want such a thing to happen?  Cryptocurrencies are rent seeking usury systems.  Yea yea, Monero is one of the best of the worst, but they are generally all worse than gold and silver.  Smooth doesn't seem to be all that bullish on cryptocurrency in the first place so I doubt he will even bother trying to put up an argument against this, but I'm sure people like Icebreaker and Articmine will try:

http://steemit.com/bitcoin/@r0achtheunsavory/the-r0ach-report-18-the-great-pow-lie

[explorer]

I´ve been following the thread for a while. The major caractheristic i see being appointed here for the success and mass adoption of Monero is the fact that it´s the most private coin. IMO if mass adoption would occur today the masses would rather have an easy to use coin than a very private coin. So you think in the future people will be increasingly concern with privacy or you see monero as an easier to use coin than the others?

People will either be increasingly concerned with privacy, or increasingly deprived of wealth freedom and privacy.  Some will figure it out sooner, some later, and some will just continue to bahh baahh baaahh while looking for a handout.

[goin2mars.]

Was always a little curious about people's long term 30-40 year outlook on hard metals in relation to asteroid mining myself.

[KeyJockey]

CLOAK txs are more anonymous than monero as I understand it.

LOL.  Just LOL

CloakCoin isn't even open source.

How in the hell could ANYONE think it's in ANY way even remotely anything like XMR, never mind try to claim it's better or "more anonymous"...??

Do some of you people even know how to TRY and get basic info/research on any of this stuff?  Or are you just blindly believing just any old damn stupid thing you read on teh interwebz...?

Incredible.  Just... L.O.L.

I've been following the thread for a while. The major caractheristic i see being appointed here for the success and mass adoption of Monero is the fact that it´s the most private coin. IMO if mass adoption would occur today the masses would rather have an easy to use coin than a very private coin. So you think in the future people will be increasingly concern with privacy or you see monero as an easier to use coin than the others?

It's not about "privacy"... what's important.

The "privacy" or "anonymity" element is totally NOT the issue.

It's very unfortunate IMHO that so many people (especially newbies) seem to focus-in and glom-on to only this "privacy" idea, about Monero.

NO, what's IMPORTANT is not PRIVACY but... FUNGIBILITY.

Fungibility is one of the characteristics of something, anything, whether it's dollar bills or flakes of gold or seashells or cigarettes in prison that is fundamentally REQUIRED in order for that "something" to be able to successfully function as a CURRENCY.

Very simply, it means some unit of something is entirely identical, replaceable, substitute-able, for any other identical unit of that something -- i.e. how one single paper dollar bill or one cigarette or one ounce of gold is fundamentally the same as any other dollar bill or cigarette or gold ounce.

So, when it comes to crypto-currency, IN ORDER to be fully FUNGIBLE, a unit of that "coin" online really cannot have any sort of "history" attached to it.

One way or another IF something has some "past" associated with it, a "history" or "trackability" or "trace path" that may -- in some way -- make it worse (or even better) than any other unit of that something... then IT IS NOT FULLY FUNGIBLE.

Different units of that 'thing' that have different 'history' will always, eventually, be treated as different... better... worse... preferred... rejected... etc etc.  And that destroys fungibility.

IF the thing is not fungible, then it CANNOT really be used successfully AS MONEY.  Can NOT.  Full Stop.  End. Of. Story.

Nope, on the contrary to this "privacy" point about XMR... it's actually only a happy accident (or "unfortunate necessity" depending on how you feel about privacy) that by virtue of being ABSOLUTELY FULLY FUNGIBLE, Monero just happens to be also totally private and anonymous.

It doesn't really matter if you want that, or don't want it... ya just gotta accept it, as a by-product of the coin's design that's enabling it to be FUNGIBLE.

And again, bottom line: being FUNGIBLE 100% (or at least more likely to be so than any other crypto-currency invented so far) is what makes MONERO = MONEY

And being NOT fully fungible is what will make EVERY other crypto-currency, IMHO, eventually NOT MONEY.

[phishead]

I'm curious as to how a whole global, or even national society, can function on a UBI if that society were to use an asset like Monero or even Bitcoin as the new currency.

This will probably be the most unpopular post ever in the Monero thread, but why would you want such a thing to happen?  Cryptocurrencies are rent seeking usury systems.  Yea yea, Monero is one of the best of the worst, but they are generally all worse than gold and silver.  Smooth doesn't seem to be all that bullish on cryptocurrency in the first place so I doubt he will even bother trying to put up an argument against this, but I'm sure people like Icebreaker and Articmine will try:

http://steemit.com/bitcoin/@r0achtheunsavory/the-r0ach-report-18-the-great-pow-lie

The reason why I would want it (and I'm assuming other people have the same opinion) is because you can't transfer gold, silver, or any other currency for that matter in a digital and decentralized fashion to avoid centralization and possible censorship.

I understand the reasoning of having value in hard assets like gold and silver, but it's obvious the economy is moving towards a more digital market place (happy "Prime Day" everyone).

[r0ach]

Was always a little curious about people's long term 30-40 year outlook on hard metals in relation to asteroid mining myself.

The cost of production of space rocks will always be vastly higher than earth rocks, so it doesn't matter whatsoever.  We would probably mine things like the ocean floor long before trying to mine metals in space.

[bitwolf]

AMD uses Monero example as suggestion that not only their GPUs can be used to mine cryptocurrencies but also their Ryzen CPUs.

http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/img/pcw/docs/1069/873/html/1.jpg.html