[XMR] Monero Speculation

[Billy Bunter]

I was at the NYC event.  The most blatant market manipulation I have observed was the smear campaign which followed.  I have been quiet because I don't like to encourage people to sell, because they will probably harm themselves if they do so, yet I anticipated that the reaction cycle would be adverse to price, once I saw the event, so I have been lying low.  I have now begun to buy again, and so I feel my influence is now less likely to harm anyone.

I am still very saddened by the intense negative emotion that has been expressed here. Surely you must see that such effusions are harmful to yourself.  While you cannot undo the damage you caused to yourself, at least learn from this, and do not let facile emotions dictate words and deeds so incautiously in future.  

As for fluffyponyza's tweets, I think they were very ill-considered.  It seems particularly poor taste to say that pre-announcements would be unethical, after having made a pre-announcement.  The fact that it was intended as a deceit does not make it more ethical.  The logic of that is so bizarrely twisted that it saddens me.

I think the marvelous progress made by endogenic on iOS and Android support is the truly newsworthy part of the presentation.  Surae's discussion of the process of cryptographic review was also of greater importance than fluffyponyza's troll.  Unfortunately these are being overlooked, because they can not be exploited to make you puke up cheap coins.

I made a few comments here and over in the monero sub (under a different name). I am not normally someone who comments a great deal - I prefer to observe since I feel I mostly don't have a great deal of import to say. FP's troll, however, spurred me like few other things have done. I won't rehash it but I think what upset me the most is that I feel that trolling is a form of bullying, which I detest. It's designed to inhibit discussion and serves no purpose other than to shame and ridicule others.

I, like many others here, have a lot of money at stake. I started buying in late 2015 and I have Monero numbering in the five figures at an average cost of less than $0.60. I have made a lot of money from Monero and I am grateful for that but I couldn't care less about the recent fall in price. It will go up again as it always does. My reaction was entirely due to his behavior, not the consequences of it.

All that said, I will add this: My wife and I have often discussed what she should do if I were to suddenly die - she knows and cares very little about our monero wallet. I've told her to keep the seed safe and, should she need help, to message FluffyPony and he would help her, honestly and truthfully. That advice still stands.

[kurious]

I was at the NYC event.  The most blatant market manipulation I have observed was the smear campaign which followed.  I have been quiet because I don't like to encourage people to sell, because they will probably harm themselves if they do so, yet I anticipated that the reaction cycle would be adverse to price, once I saw the event, so I have been lying low.  I have now begun to buy again, and so I feel my influence is now less likely to harm anyone.

I am still very saddened by the intense negative emotion that has been expressed here. Surely you must see that such effusions are harmful to yourself.  While you cannot undo the damage you caused to yourself, at least learn from this, and do not let facile emotions dictate words and deeds so incautiously in future.  

As for fluffyponyza's tweets, I think they were very ill-considered.  It seems particularly poor taste to say that pre-announcements would be unethical, after having made a pre-announcement.  The fact that it was intended as a deceit does not make it more ethical.  The logic of that is so bizarrely twisted that it saddens me.

I think the marvelous progress made by endogenic on iOS and Android support is the truly newsworthy part of the presentation.  Surae's discussion of the process of cryptographic review was also of greater importance than fluffyponyza's troll.  Unfortunately these are being overlooked, because they can not be exploited to make you puke up cheap coins.

I am glad you have posted on this and your response is reasoned and about in line with my own. 

Yes, I think a lot of the reaction was OTT, but personally while I know what he 'meant' and FP's little joke was not existential, the ill-judged nature of it has created a bad atmosphere and a ton of troll fodder that it need not have.

Monero is still a great project and this won't change that, but by creating confusion and the potential accusation of pump and dump scam (even if inadvertently) was foolish.

That is about it. but one more small point:

I could do without people high up from 'Monero Mountain' with wine glasses in hand sneering at people who are genuine supporters of this project and deserve better.  It only serves to entrench resentment, not heal it.

[infofront]

I've been raging all over the place for a while now too, and I've started calming down. I didn't buy into the pump. In fact, when I dumped everything I had been holding for nearly three years, I exited at the beginning of the dump, so I actually made out pretty well. I'm now assessing whether or not I will open up a long position again, and to what extent.

No matter what, my position will be smaller than it was previously. I've lost some faith and trust in Fluffy, much of the Monero community, and the project as a whole. Also, Monero's squeeky clean image has now been permanently tarnished by a pump n' dump scam orchestrated by the lead dev. I agree that almost certainly wasn't his intent, but that's the scarlet letter Monero will forever wear. That will have some predictable and unpredictable, lasting, negative effects.

[joeyjojoshb]

what is so special about monero?  WHy are people dumping cash into this?

[Luxo]

I was at the NYC event.  The most blatant market manipulation I have observed was the smear campaign which followed.  I have been quiet because I don't like to encourage people to sell, because they will probably harm themselves if they do so, yet I anticipated that the reaction cycle would be adverse to price, once I saw the event, so I have been lying low.  I have now begun to buy again, and so I feel my influence is now less likely to harm anyone.

I am still very saddened by the intense negative emotion that has been expressed here. Surely you must see that such effusions are harmful to yourself.  While you cannot undo the damage you caused to yourself, at least learn from this, and do not let facile emotions dictate words and deeds so incautiously in future.  

As for fluffyponyza's tweets, I think they were very ill-considered.  It seems particularly poor taste to say that pre-announcements would be unethical, after having made a pre-announcement.  The fact that it was intended as a deceit does not make it more ethical.  The logic of that is so bizarrely twisted that it saddens me.

I think the marvelous progress made by endogenic on iOS and Android support is the truly newsworthy part of the presentation.  Surae's discussion of the process of cryptographic review was also of greater importance than fluffyponyza's troll.  Unfortunately these are being overlooked, because they can not be exploited to make you puke up cheap coins.

I am glad you have posted on this and your response is reasoned and about in line with my own. 

Yes, I think a lot of the reaction was OTT, but personally while I know what he 'meant' and FP's little joke was not existential, the ill-judged nature of it has created a bad atmosphere and a ton of troll fodder that it need not have.

Monero is still a great project and this won't change that, but by creating confusion and the potential accusation of pump and dump scam (even if inadvertently) was foolish.

That is about it. but one more small point:

I could do without people high up from 'Monero Mountain' with wine glasses in hand sneering at people who are genuine supporters of this project and deserve better.  It only serves to entrench resentment, not heal it.

I used to truly respect monero and talk about it because it was great without anything majorly bad that I could tell except there being almost no marketing done and the community calling out scams. Monero and the code seemed to be solid, backed up by constant work done on it and a community growing. Now as I've been saying on reddit, fluffy has given other projects a reason to lash on monero by saying that the monero core team which includes fluffy as suspicious because of that announcement and could have profited. Being with the community for a while, I know it is far from the truth but the truth doesn't matter. Fluffy's trolling gave them a reason and has probably stalled the growing rate of the project a little.

Fluffy's stunt felt like a message to me: why are you trying to spread the words, why are you funding monero, I said don't buy monero. I told you so, I am a troll and so smart, I won't apologize to you people because I'm a troll. You guys are idiots for trying to tell people to buy monero when I clearly said don't. Why are you spending time on monero when I explicitly tell people to not buy it?
I'm clearly exaggerating and going to an an extreme but yes, I did feel a bit like that. It could be just me and hope it is.

I know where he comes from wanting to spread his message about not trusting people on a decentralized project but I believe he slowed down the monero project by his move although now the message he wanted to transmit is clearly understood by most people. I am sad to say that I have sold a small amount of XMR for the first time yesterday. I guessed that it would go to more than 100$ by the end of the year and I am still sure it will. I'll be on the sideline picking up some cheap moneroj when I feel it hit the bottom and stop trying to openly encourage people to buy Monero, like Mr. Fluffypony is so proud to have said. In the long term, I guess it will still succeed as any publicity is good publicity but frankly I was quite disappointed by his trolling.

[iCEBREAKER]

I was at the NYC event.  The most blatant market manipulation I have observed was the smear campaign which followed.  I have been quiet because I don't like to encourage people to sell, because they will probably harm themselves if they do so, yet I anticipated that the reaction cycle would be adverse to price, once I saw the event, so I have been lying low.  I have now begun to buy again, and so I feel my influence is now less likely to harm anyone.

I am still very saddened by the intense negative emotion that has been expressed here. Surely you must see that such effusions are harmful to yourself.  While you cannot undo the damage you caused to yourself, at least learn from this, and do not let facile emotions dictate words and deeds so incautiously in future.  

As for fluffyponyza's tweets, I think they were very ill-considered.  It seems particularly poor taste to say that pre-announcements would be unethical, after having made a pre-announcement.  The fact that it was intended as a deceit does not make it more ethical.  The logic of that is so bizarrely twisted that it saddens me.

I think the marvelous progress made by endogenic on iOS and Android support is the truly newsworthy part of the presentation.  Surae's discussion of the process of cryptographic review was also of greater importance than fluffyponyza's troll.  Unfortunately these are being overlooked, because they can not be exploited to make you puke up cheap coins.

I am glad you have posted on this and your response is reasoned and about in line with my own. 

Yes, I think a lot of the reaction was OTT, but personally while I know what he 'meant' and FP's little joke was not existential, the ill-judged nature of it has created a bad atmosphere and a ton of troll fodder that it need not have.

Monero is still a great project and this won't change that, but by creating confusion and the potential accusation of pump and dump scam (even if inadvertently) was foolish.

That is about it. but one more small point:

I could do without people high up from 'Monero Mountain' with wine glasses in hand sneering at people who are genuine supporters of this project and deserve better.  It only serves to entrench resentment, not heal it.

The only power to "entrench resentment" possessed by drunken Monero mountaineers is the amount you voluntarily grant them.  For example, nothing I can post could possibly make Aminorex sell, because he is Based AF and not a whiny melting snowflake.

He is also 100% spot-on about the blatant market manipulation and smear campaign.  Very sad to see some of our finest Mustangs succumbing to (*gasp*) popular sentiment as found on social media, aiding and abetting the Ztrash/Dash troll brigade. 

If Monero is not sufficiently anti-fragile to survive its weak holders under the mildly adverse conditions of a well-intentioned and poignant practical joke, it does not deserve to continue.  Smooth has already explained this; I'm not sure why normies are still not grokking the idea:

'anti fragile' means that if anything fluffypony says or matters all that much, we're doing something wrong. Fortunately, it doesn't.

(And to the extent that this stunt makes what he says or does matter even less, we're doing something right.)

Android and Surae are so much more important than endless butthurt over what is obviously high caliber performance art (which should be profoundly provocative and thus controversial due to displaced cognitive dissonance).

Please disabuse yourself of the false conceit that I am here to coddle, placate, compromise, or (to use your euphemism) "heal" your poutrage.

I am here to catalyze and amplify your self-inflicted resentment until you pull a Hearn and puke up cheap coins. 

If you rage-dumped XMR because of some farcical trifle about a #FluffyGate tweet, you never deserved to hold a single Tacoshi.

[Billy Bunter]

I was at the NYC event.  The most blatant market manipulation I have observed was the smear campaign which followed.  I have been quiet because I don't like to encourage people to sell, because they will probably harm themselves if they do so, yet I anticipated that the reaction cycle would be adverse to price, once I saw the event, so I have been lying low.  I have now begun to buy again, and so I feel my influence is now less likely to harm anyone.

I am still very saddened by the intense negative emotion that has been expressed here. Surely you must see that such effusions are harmful to yourself.  While you cannot undo the damage you caused to yourself, at least learn from this, and do not let facile emotions dictate words and deeds so incautiously in future.  

As for fluffyponyza's tweets, I think they were very ill-considered.  It seems particularly poor taste to say that pre-announcements would be unethical, after having made a pre-announcement.  The fact that it was intended as a deceit does not make it more ethical.  The logic of that is so bizarrely twisted that it saddens me.

I think the marvelous progress made by endogenic on iOS and Android support is the truly newsworthy part of the presentation.  Surae's discussion of the process of cryptographic review was also of greater importance than fluffyponyza's troll.  Unfortunately these are being overlooked, because they can not be exploited to make you puke up cheap coins.

I am glad you have posted on this and your response is reasoned and about in line with my own.  

Yes, I think a lot of the reaction was OTT, but personally while I know what he 'meant' and FP's little joke was not existential, the ill-judged nature of it has created a bad atmosphere and a ton of troll fodder that it need not have.

Monero is still a great project and this won't change that, but by creating confusion and the potential accusation of pump and dump scam (even if inadvertently) was foolish.

That is about it. but one more small point:

I could do without people high up from 'Monero Mountain' with wine glasses in hand sneering at people who are genuine supporters of this project and deserve better.  It only serves to entrench resentment, not heal it.

The only power to "entrench resentment" possessed by drunken Monero mountaineers is the amount you voluntarily grant them.  For example, nothing I can post could possibly make Aminorex sell, because he is Based AF and not a whiny melting snowflake.

He is also 100% spot-on about the blatant market manipulation and smear campaign.  Very sad to see some of our finest Mustangs succumbing to (*gasp*) popular sentiment as found on social media, aiding and abetting the Ztrash/Dash troll brigade.  

If Monero is not sufficiently anti-fragile to survive its weak holders under the mildly adverse conditions of a well-intentioned and poignant practical joke, it does not deserve to continue.  Smooth has already explained this; I'm not sure why normies are still not grokking the idea:

'anti fragile' means that if anything fluffypony says or matters all that much, we're doing something wrong. Fortunately, it doesn't.

(And to the extent that this stunt makes what he says or does matter even less, we're doing something right.)

Android and Surae are so much more important than endless butthurt over what is obviously high caliber performance art (which should be profoundly provocative and thus controversial due to displaced cognitive dissonance).

Please disabuse yourself of the false conceit that I am here to coddle, placate, compromise, or (to use your euphemism) "heal" your poutrage.

I am here to catalyze and amplify your self-inflicted resentment until you pull a Hearn and puke up cheap coins.  

If you rage-dumped XMR because of some farcical trifle about a #FluffyGate tweet, you never deserved to hold a single Tacoshi.

Nothing you post could make anyone sell. Get over yourself.

[Digidoge]

Yes, Fluffy behaved like Joker who set fire money, but it made as 'Antifragile' IMO

[iCEBREAKER]

The only power to "entrench resentment" possessed by drunken Monero mountaineers is the amount you voluntarily grant them.  For example, nothing I can post could possibly make Aminorex sell, because he is Based AF and not a whiny melting snowflake.

He is also 100% spot-on about the blatant market manipulation and smear campaign.  Very sad to see some of our finest Mustangs succumbing to (*gasp*) popular sentiment as found on social media, aiding and abetting the Ztrash/Dash troll brigade.  

If Monero is not sufficiently anti-fragile to survive its weak holders under the mildly adverse conditions of a well-intentioned and poignant practical joke, it does not deserve to continue.  Smooth has already explained this; I'm not sure why normies are still not grokking the idea:

'anti fragile' means that if anything fluffypony says or matters all that much, we're doing something wrong. Fortunately, it doesn't.

(And to the extent that this stunt makes what he says or does matter even less, we're doing something right.)

Android and Surae are so much more important than endless butthurt over what is obviously high caliber performance art (which should be profoundly provocative and thus controversial due to displaced cognitive dissonance).

Please disabuse yourself of the false conceit that I am here to coddle, placate, compromise, or (to use your euphemism) "heal" your poutrage.

I am here to catalyze and amplify your self-inflicted resentment until you pull a Hearn and puke up cheap coins.  

If you rage-dumped XMR because of some farcical trifle about a #FluffyGate tweet, you never deserved to hold a single Tacoshi.

Nothing you post could make anyone sell. Get over yourself.

Out of all the material in the conversation, that's the best response you could come up with? 

Wow, I think my smugness level just went up a notch.  Thanks for that. 

[IntroVert]

The only reason that could make me sell my entire Monero stash is a protocol or implementation deficiency that would make the coin not viable, exactly the thing that Monero Labs discovered and the Core Team and the (Unofficial) Troll in Chief artfully and professionally helped other CryptoNote coins patch themselves, and help their hodlers/investors/speculators not lose the value of what was invested. They made sure the technology you invested in remained exactly what you thought it was when you acquired your coins. To me, they have been and are doing their job with distinction.

As for your investment decisions, the rule has always been and remains, not to put in anything more than you can afford to lose. It is your decision to invest in unregulated markets. You need to own it with all the good and bad that comes out of it, otherwise crypto might not be for you.

[bitwolf]

what is so special about monero?  WHy are people dumping cash into this?

Unlike absolutely any other coin, it is 100% anonymous. Hard to handle the unique code thought but we have great community and devs. This means great potential. Plus unlike any other coin XMR runs on comedy and satire  :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2WfedZG7bo

[Igor76200]

We found Riccardo Spagni. He's now in Genève Switzerland.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x685L0dnu6I

[novag]

In Switzerland, many investors with big money.

[aminorex]

...obviously high caliber performance art (which should be profoundly provocative and thus controversial due to displaced cognitive dissonance).

I have to agree on this point.  As performance art goes, it was quite a notable piece.  I do not like it one bit, but I do appreciate that aspect. It has...stimulated discussion.

I mostly dislike it because the winning scenario for our species is the diligent preservation of the last remaining fragments of human privacy, dignity and freedom. I don't think the performance helped.  Hopefully, I am wrong.

[Aby Normal]

I think that one bad move is nothing comparing to all good things fluffy did over past 3 years, like nobody remembers all the troubles XMR had since its early days and who was always there to save the day. It is very important to understand that we're only humans and we can sometimes make a foolish move, and if you look at the market now and 2 days ago ... well it looks kinda fickle to me ...
Meanwhile that whalepanda - veteran altcoin trader (his twitter profile description) - with more than 13k followers is being ignored in all this mess and all the rocks are being thrown on someone who did so much for for all of us. At least now we know how effective a single tweet from a veteran altcoin trader (P&D scumbag) can be, and it could be that Monero has just been cleansed from all those bad things that are typical for shitcoins that work on announcement/roadmap marry go round ...
Monero looks much stronger now, not saying that from a speculators perspective but as a user. Now there's over 180k uncomfirmed BTC transactions and its been like that for weeks. I have one transaction stuck in limbo since may 18 (9 days already ) cos I forgot to adjust TX fee in wallet preferences while BTC price almost doubled since my previous transaction that happened only 10 days before (and was confirmed the same day with same TX fee). Just imagine how many BTC are stuck in limbo because of the stupid 1mb block size limit, could be millions of BTC stuck in traffic jam (there's 1.2BTC in my transaction only). There are maybe thousands of BTC users being totally pissed cos they have their coins stuck for days while watching them lose over 500usd of value. Just imagine how those alphabay vendors react on all this BTC mess, how much they have to pay for BTC mixing that can create hundreds transactions on a single item sale, that sport must be very very expensive right now - in order for BTC to add just one simple Monero's feature it has to pour salt on an open wound, block size limit and mixers on overcrowded network are very very bad combination, not to mention that those mixers are utter crap comparing to how Monero handles the same task ... Personally I would prefer to use a currency on which some people spent 10 years in the dark hammering out the details, than a currency some guy convinced me to invest in ...

[noobtrader]

...obviously high caliber performance art (which should be profoundly provocative and thus controversial due to displaced cognitive dissonance).

I have to agree on this point.  

yes i like it, its like some sort of interesting poem or story actlually let me suggest a name for it....   

Monero 2017,  THE PURGE

...As performance art goes, it was quite a notable piece.  I do not like it one bit, but I do appreciate that aspect. It has...stimulated discussion.

I mostly dislike it because the winning scenario for our species is the diligent preservation of the last remaining fragments of human privacy, dignity and freedom. I don't think the performance helped.  Hopefully, I am wrong...

[Detective Cuffs]

I think we can collectively start blaming FP for all this s**t storm going on right now 

[coinzoid]

I think we can collectively start blaming FP for all this s**t storm going on right now 

Yeah, why not. After hearing what he has done. Probably saying "Look! I'm right. Market is collapsing."

[cryptimus prime]

Surae Noether mentioned in his proposal that he wants to research ZK-Protocols.
So it means the goal is having some Zcash technology incorporated into XMR?

Is Surae active on this forum and can somebody provide more informations about that?
Did he maybe mentioned Zk-Protocols on XMR during his last talk? Are there ways to do this without the trusted setup?

[CardShare]

tumble weed rolled across the floor... nobody was surprised..