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[Mikestang]

... and meanwhile while there's so many posts here supporting Bitmain and buying their hardware ...

Anyone notice that this was a 26s network block?
The previous network block was an EMPTY Bitmain block.
26s later we get this block with ... >1% txn fees, 988k block ...

So many people's decisions on hardware purchase are based only on price, they don't take anything else into account.  Which is a shame, because if they did then no one would be buying Bitmain hardware and supporting their empty blocks.

Forget the S7, they're being marked down for a reason.  Buy an Avalon 6 and you won't regret it!

[Legacy2005]

Block by 12TMh!  That is his 13th kano block!

... and meanwhile while there's so many posts here supporting Bitmain and buying their hardware ...

Anyone notice that this was a 26s network block?
The previous network block was an EMPTY Bitmain block.
26s later we get this block with ... >1% txn fees, 988k block ...

Its not so much that we want to buy their hardware. its more that when it comes down to ROI we are strong armed into it. Id love to sell all my antminers and go pure Avalon but the difference in $ and hash is its downfall.

... and meanwhile while there's so many posts here supporting Bitmain and buying their hardware ...

Anyone notice that this was a 26s network block?
The previous network block was an EMPTY Bitmain block.
26s later we get this block with ... >1% txn fees, 988k block ...

So many people's decisions on hardware purchase are based only on price, they don't take anything else into account.  Which is a shame, because if they did then no one would be buying Bitmain hardware and supporting their empty blocks.

Forget the S7, they're being marked down for a reason.  Buy an Avalon 6 and you won't regret it!

Unfortunately this game is all about ROI and bitmain knows that buy selling cheaper we are "forced" to buy from them.

[thedreamer]

We're not forced to do anything. Some people give them the middle finger no matter what. I know I do.

[cavaliersrus]

nhando has i think 2-4 PH with his investers and him so i think he knows what hes talking about hes the guy that got me interested in buying an s7

[Mikestang]

ROI shmarOI

Your average user might be making a dollar a day or something, hardly what I would call sustainable income.

$482 with coupon for 4.7TH or $900 for 3.2-3.8TH Avalon 6.........

Citing a "couponed" S7 price and a full-blow Avalon 6 retail prices is not fair, just like you said.  Right now there is a group buy for Avalon 6 for $600 - $600 vs $482 (does that include shipping?) is a much fairer fight, and when you can look up and see the bigger pictures, that there is more at stake here than ROI, then the decision makes itself.  Unfortunately most people only look at the bottom line, that's a short sighted way to operate.

Otherwise anyone who buys from Bitmain has no place to complain about empty blocks or any of the other crap Bitmain...

Vote with your wallet, you are its master; don't let it become the master over you.

Nothing "silly" about the point I am trying to make, either.

[philipma1957]

... and meanwhile while there's so many posts here supporting Bitmain and buying their hardware ...

Anyone notice that this was a 26s network block?
The previous network block was an EMPTY Bitmain block.
26s later we get this block with ... >1% txn fees, 988k block ...

So many people's decisions on hardware purchase are based only on price, they don't take anything else into account.  Which is a shame, because if they did then no one would be buying Bitmain hardware and supporting their empty blocks.

Forget the S7, they're being marked down for a reason.  Buy an Avalon 6 and you won't regret it!

I really resisted hard not to comment, but simply couldn't hold back as this is such a silly debate.  No wonder why so many people can't ROI.  $482 with coupon for 4.7TH or $900 for 3.2-3.8TH Avalon 6.........  Not even a fair fight, don't even bother responding to me unless you own both miners.  I own over a dozen Avalon 6 and hundreds of S7s.  Still love the Avalon 6, but the price difference makes it simply silly to even think otherwise with the current difficulties.  Until there's better competition, we're stuck with the current monopoly.  Run the ROI calculator folks, don't steer rookies the wrong way and make them lose money.  The Avalon 6 was a good deal months ago via used pricing, not on today's pricing.  You simply can't ROI with the halving and $900 with such low hash rate, some group buys was canceled as a result of that.  Gosh, if you hate Bitmain, don't buy but don't give people bad advice.  Tell them to invest in BTC or just wait for newer generation Gear.  Craziness.

 you can still get avalon 6 from holyscott for 593 on a single order you need a kit  if you buy one from him and let me know I will send you the kit free.

 that is 1 rasp pi
2 usb cables
1 four pin cable
1 wall wart
1 four pin to usb adapter


my group buy was cancelled due to my belief that 612 to 630 is too much for an avalon 6  not 900  

[Mikestang]

I simply suggest we NOT recommend worst options and costing rookies a lot of money.

Take off the accountant's hat for a second.  If someone is relying on the "income" of a dollar or two a day from bitcoin mining then they've made some poor life choices.  There is more (much, much more) to bitcoin than just trying to turn a profit.  On a large scale such as yours I can see how that is a priority, but 95% of the people in this thread are not large scale industrial miners.

Worst option how so?  

The Avalon 6 is quieter and runs cooler than the S7, is just as efficient on power, and they support Kano and Ck with the latest cgminer and they do not run a pool that spits out shit empty blocks all day long.  Plus when you get an A6 it's brand new, it hasn't been hashing away in a chinese datacenter for you knows how long before being sent to you.  To me the S7 sounds like the worst option.

[hawkfish007]

I am seeing a lot of people are here to support Bitcoin network with one or two of their miners, but it is also about profit for whoever spent 100's of thousands of $ on machines and paying bills to keep them running. I personally don't think Avalon 6 is a superior miner, as I sold mine at a loss after a month of use. It is more expensive and less powerful than S7 as of now, it will stop running if your ambient temp is over 90F. Mine stopped running where S7s and Titans were running at full blast. Not sure if the 2nd generation of A6 solved the issue. Now if someone is starting today, they will probably have a chance of ROI with a S7 at $482 but not with A6 at $600 (only through a group buy). Ideologies and hatred behind, we should give newcomers neutral information so they don't go away from mining with a sour taste in their mouth from losses.

[kano]

Sigh.

So when did this become a "You must buy Avalon" discussion?

Since the price change, and nhando pushing people to buy Bitmain hardware, all I've said is that buying Bitmain is supporting the company that has more than 25% of the bitcoin network, mines empty blocks and SPV mines.

... and our last block is a clear example of showing the issue with that.

No I'm not here to tell miners they have to buy Avalon hardware, but I'm also not interested in people posting messages supporting Bitmain like there is some profit in them posting the messages.

Time to clean up some of the posts ...

[StevenD]

Hey, I found a block 

Do I get a badge  ?

That worker was a nicehash rental

[kano]

Hey, I found a block 

Do I get a badge  ?

That worker was a nicehash rental

Oh wow - yep that puts you at the top of the list I think now.
OK, better get around to updating the list.
I'll edit it to show the top 5 and the bottom 5 ...

3 days left to go

[philipma1957]

I am seeing a lot of people are here to support Bitcoin network with one or two of their miners, but it is also about profit for whoever spent 100's of thousands of $ on machines and paying bills to keep them running. I personally don't think Avalon 6 is a superior miner, as I sold mine at a loss after a month of use. It is more expensive and less powerful than S7 as of now, it will stop running if your ambient temp is over 90F. Mine stopped running where S7s and Titans were running at full blast. Not sure if the 2nd generation of A6 solved the issue. Now if someone is starting today, they will probably have a chance of ROI with a S7 at $482 but not with A6 at $600 (only through a group buy). Ideologies and hatred behind, we should give newcomers neutral information so they don't go away from mining with a sour taste in their mouth from losses.

Yeah on an emotional level I want you to be wrong.

But the Avalon 6 costs a bit too much.

And as for running a lot of them it is hard for me to say they are easy. I ran 10 at a time in a space that was too hard to cool. However I can run four or five in that space.

The Avalon 6 has a serious design issue which took a while for me to figure out as my room was not hot enough to cause the issue.  It pulls as much as 1050 watts dc on four jacks so your really need solid psus. And pcie cables.

The s-7 uses nine jacks to pull 1400 watts.  This is better. Maybe  150 watts a jack vs 275 watts a jack.



I own and run 7 Avalon 6s and I own and run 1 s-7.  I mine all my machines right here


Most likely I will buy 2 s-7's with coupons but I am in a very low cost power spot due to the solar array.

I can run the 2 s-7 at 9400 gh and not care about the noise.

While I need almost 3 Avalon 6s to get 10200 gh.

2800 watts vs 3000 watts and 1050 usd vs 1800 usd that's a killer for me.

And it is not like I did not support Avalon I did. 

Back to this pool I look forward to getting the extra 9400 gh

I will be close to 35 th

[nhando]

Sigh.

So when did this become a "You must buy Avalon" discussion?

Since the price change, and nhando pushing people to buy Bitmain hardware, all I've said is that buying Bitmain is supporting the company that has more than 25% of the bitcoin network, mines empty blocks and SPV mines.

... and our last block is a clear example of showing the issue with that.

No I'm not here to tell miners they have to buy Avalon hardware, but I'm also not interested in people posting messages supporting Bitmain like there is some profit in them posting the messages.

Time to clean up some of the posts ...

Man you can delete all my posts, even though I just tell people to think about the recommendations.  I never push the S7, I just happened to have hundreds of coupons that I only offered for your Pool members for free vs charging them like in other threads.  Your pool is the only 1 even promote in the S7 thread.  I have help numerous Kano's pool people with free boost with hash rate from 20-50TH and pointed only to YOUR pool.  I have sold and gave really crazy discounts to Kano members only.  Don't know how I'm considered a Bitmain and Antpool lovers, all I'm saying is keep your minds open on Pool and hardware options.  Bitmain / Antpool dont' pay me and Kano pool definitely don't.  I was a newbie not too long ago and was very fortunate to get the help from DMwardjr, Philip, notlist3d, MarkAZ, etc before I got a better grasp on things.  They helped saved me from circuit panel blow outs, fire hazzards and investing huge amount of money on the wrong hardware.   I just seen way too many bitcoin newbies who just started out, got screwed with bad advice, gave up and hate Bitcoin.  That's what I can't stand.  If you talk big about caring about the Bitcoin network, not mining empty blocks, then we should also promote a healthier environment to encourage good advice for new members to prosper.  This is what the forum is about, to educate future Miners.   Doesn't matter if it's a S7 or Avalon 6 or ABC device, they all are miner here looking to ROI.  We should offer the best advice to help them achieve that.

P.S see my numerous post about me trying to get Kano pool to 40PH to help decentralize the network.  Only myself and Philip mention that.   I actually flexed my muscle to help push it from 33PH to 40PH during that nasty ridiculous week. 

[HagssFIN]

Yeah, it sometimes maybe gets a little too off-topic but I love the way fellow Kano CKPool miners support here each other in various things, hardware things included. It keeps the mining and pool hash rate at sustainable level or at least has a positive effect on it

I still have 3pcs 100USD discount coupons for Antminer S7 batch 15 for those who need it. For free.
edit: I have now no coupons

[kano]

nhando,

Yeah well, 3 repeated posts copying most of the same thing, is normal grounds for deleting posts anyway.
I didn't delete all the posts by everyone saying why to buy Bitmain, but yours even started out with unreliable information about prices ...

--

Meanwhile, I've updated the 'CDF' list
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=789369.msg8895607#msg8895607
(Edit: if I've made a mistake or missed one, let me know, but I'm pretty sure it's all correct and up to date again)

[tlhIlwI]

The Avalon 6 has a serious design issue which took a while for me to figure out as my room was not hot enough to cause the issue.  It pulls as much as 1050 watts dc on four jacks so your really need solid psus. And pcie cables.

Solid PSUs and cables, yes.  I don't know if I would call that a design issue though.  6 pin PCI-E does up to 288W if done correctly (that is right at 8A per pin which is what they are rated).  That means proper gauge cables (18ga. at a minimum, 16 is even better, never 20ga), good quality connectors, and avoiding longer cable runs (doing these will prevent losses to heat).  Last summer I ran my SP20s (also a 4 jack design) all the way up to the 288W maximum on loops 0 and 2 (1 and 3 never were that high due to the thermal design) and I never had a problem-- not even a warm connector.  The A6 doesn't require as much as a full speed SP20 did (The A6 requires about 7.25A per pin), so I feel plenty safe with my A6 miners.

I don't trust most cables though and prefer to make my own.  I use 16 gauge leads, about 8 to 9 inches long, the proper Molex parts, and even go as far as soldering the crimped connection just to make sure I'm not going to have any dangerous losses at the connection.  If there is a meltdown I want it to be my own fault and not the fault of just any budget cable of questionable quality.

As for the other discussion, I chose to upgrade from the SP20 to the A6 rather than the S7.  My reasons were the matching power requirements (easy reuse of my existing server PSUs), perceived durability ("perceived" because it is hard to get a good sample on this... with more S7 miners out there, there will naturally be more S7 complaints), the quieter operation (since when winter arrives I plan to mine in my indoor "mining hole" [I mount them right inside the HVAC return during the winter]), and not supporting Bitmain in general.  I did reduce my planned upgrade though, as the price of the A6 is extremely risky.  Obviously individual reasons will vary, but that was why I went with the A6.

I am a bit nervous about how the A6 will run when the summer heat hits.  I hear 95F is about where these stop and we do get a few triple digit days here.  I've upgraded the exhaust fan in my garage to 6200CFM to hopefully move the heat out and will also be undervolting them a tad during the summer months.  So far it is moving the heat out better than expected-- I even had a SP20 that was set up for efficiency (0.62V 6% fan) shut down on a cold night because it was running too cold   (exhaust temp was only reaching 29C)!  I have to bump that one to 0.64V on the colder nights just to keep it alive with 45C exhaust.

[kano]

...
P.S see my numerous post about me trying to get Kano pool to 40PH to help decentralize the network.  Only myself and Philip mention that.   I actually flexed my muscle to help push it from 33PH to 40PH during that nasty ridiculous week. 

Yeah and they all left, they're just hoppers who clearly have no idea of mining statistics.

Like most pools, I don't really like hoppers.
When they are large, people see the pool hash rate going all over the place and some consider that an issue.
I'm way more tolerant of them coz they have no effect on luck and they wont 'hop' in and get extra BTC doing that - none have those magical pixies to tell them when the pool will find blocks

Certainly I can say this in hind sight due to the results the Block Statistics show: if you had listened to Philip and just pointed your hash rate here, around 10 weeks, at a total 110% for 10 weeks, is pretty hard to beat ...

[sorry2xs]

The Avalon 6 has a serious design issue which took a while for me to figure out as my room was not hot enough to cause the issue.  It pulls as much as 1050 watts dc on four jacks so your really need solid psus. And pcie cables.

Solid PSUs and cables, yes.  I don't know if I would call that a design issue though.  6 pin PCI-E does up to 288W if done correctly (that is right at 8A per pin which is what they are rated).  That means proper gauge cables (18ga. at a minimum, 16 is even better, never 20ga), good quality connectors, and avoiding longer cable runs (doing these will prevent losses to heat).  Last summer I ran my SP20s (also a 4 jack design) all the way up to the 288W maximum on loops 0 and 2 (1 and 3 never were that high due to the thermal design) and I never had a problem-- not even a warm connector.  The A6 doesn't require as much as a full speed SP20 did (The A6 requires about 7.25A per pin), so I feel plenty safe with my A6 miners.

I don't trust most cables though and prefer to make my own.  I use 16 gauge leads, about 8 to 9 inches long, the proper Molex parts, and even go as far as soldering the crimped connection just to make sure I'm not going to have any dangerous losses at the connection.  If there is a meltdown I want it to be my own fault and not the fault of just any budget cable of questionable quality.

As for the other discussion, I chose to upgrade from the SP20 to the A6 rather than the S7.  My reasons were the matching power requirements (easy reuse of my existing server PSUs), perceived durability ("perceived" because it is hard to get a good sample on this... with more S7 miners out there, there will naturally be more S7 complaints), the quieter operation (since when winter arrives I plan to mine in my indoor "mining hole" [I mount them right inside the HVAC return during the winter]), and not supporting Bitmain in general.  I did reduce my planned upgrade though, as the price of the A6 is extremely risky.  Obviously individual reasons will vary, but that was why I went with the A6.

I am a bit nervous about how the A6 will run when the summer heat hits.  I hear 95F is about where these stop and we do get a few triple digit days here.  I've upgraded the exhaust fan in my garage to 6200CFM to hopefully move the heat out and will also be undervolting them a tad during the summer months.  So far it is moving the heat out better than expected-- I even had a SP20 that was set up for efficiency (0.62V 6% fan) shut down on a cold night because it was running too cold  (exhaust temp was only reaching 29C)!  I have to bump that one to 0.64V on the colder nights just to keep it alive with 45C exhaust.

I used an dc amp probe on my A6 and they are between 10.8 to 11.2 on each pin line side of the hp1200@240 volts is 4.2 amps just saying

[clgrissom3]

...
P.S see my numerous post about me trying to get Kano pool to 40PH to help decentralize the network.  Only myself and Philip mention that.   I actually flexed my muscle to help push it from 33PH to 40PH during that nasty ridiculous week. 

Yeah and they all left, they're just hoppers who clearly have no idea of mining statistics.

Like most pools, I don't really like hoppers.
When they are large, people see the pool hash rate going all over the place and some consider that an issue.
I'm way more tolerant of them coz they have no effect on luck and they wont 'hop' in and get extra BTC doing that - none have those magical pixies to tell them when the pool will find blocks

Certainly I can say this in hind sight due to the results the Block Statistics show: if you had listened to Philip and just pointed your hash rate here, around 10 weeks, at a total 110% for 10 weeks, is pretty hard to beat ...

Yep, I can personally vouch for that 110%...I was here straight through those 10 weeks (plus many more) and 110% over that long a stretch is mighty hard to beat!

[philipma1957]

...
P.S see my numerous post about me trying to get Kano pool to 40PH to help decentralize the network.  Only myself and Philip mention that.   I actually flexed my muscle to help push it from 33PH to 40PH during that nasty ridiculous week.  

Yeah and they all left, they're just hoppers who clearly have no idea of mining statistics.

Like most pools, I don't really like hoppers.
When they are large, people see the pool hash rate going all over the place and some consider that an issue.
I'm way more tolerant of them coz they have no effect on luck and they wont 'hop' in and get extra BTC doing that - none have those magical pixies to tell them when the pool will find blocks

Certainly I can say this in hind sight due to the results the Block Statistics show: if you had listened to Philip and just pointed your hash rate here, around 10 weeks, at a total 110% for 10 weeks, is pretty hard to beat ...

Since I wrote the thread back in Jan telling people to mine here.  I have clocked the 100 block stat every day 2 time a day.  for the last 230+ blocks.

so for the entire time the 100 block stat dipped under 100 % to 99 % for 1 day  most days the 100 block stat is over 104%

we are at block            699    life time number of 106.57%
my thread was at block 462  life time number of  104.33 %

so in 237 blocks we went from  104.33 to 106.57

You guys need to calm down it is all good.

this is a marathon not a sprint.

with any luck  we should be good until we get to the 6.25 btc block size  that is three years from now .  it is a long time. from now.   and the next set of chips will get to .09 - .15 watts   they will stay around a long time.  the time to get nervous is past 2020 not 2016.