[ANN][CRW] CROWN (MN-PoS) | Platform | NFT framework | Governance | Masternodes

[entropycoin]

I think that my favorite aspect of this project is the perceptibly dynamic nature of the development team. It's not a static vision by a central figure, but a group of people who seemingly share fundamental core beliefs and are willing to adapt and evolve as well as incorporate new technologies to bring these fundamental ideas to fruition. I enjoy the white papers for their substance even if they are a bit opaque, but love the enthusiasm behind them. I'd strongly encourage others to give them a read if they have not done so already.

[defunctec]

I think that my favorite aspect of this project is the perceptibly dynamic nature of the development team. It's not a static vision by a central figure, but a group of people who seemingly share fundamental core beliefs and are willing to adapt and evolve as well as incorporate new technologies to bring these fundamental ideas to fruition. I enjoy the white papers for their substance even if they are a bit opaque, but love the enthusiasm behind them. I'd strongly encourage others to give them a read if they have not done so already.

You really hit the nail on the head. A shared language/philosophy between the core team is very important to us, on which infrastructure will be built around.

The Crown papers are opaque on purpose, as our destination is understood, how to get there is another story and we didn't want to let on to our ideas and how to implement them. Everything is coming clearer by the day and the team should have some very interesting documentation to release to the public, in the coming weeks.

[defunctec]

BOUNTY ANNOUNCEMENT

What's needed

- Breadwallet (IOS)

Whats on offer

- 10,000 CRW

Join us on mattermost / Slack or PM me for more info

[urban_idler]

I think that my favorite aspect of this project is the perceptibly dynamic nature of the development team. It's not a static vision by a central figure, but a group of people who seemingly share fundamental core beliefs and are willing to adapt and evolve as well as incorporate new technologies to bring these fundamental ideas to fruition. I enjoy the white papers for their substance even if they are a bit opaque, but love the enthusiasm behind them. I'd strongly encourage others to give them a read if they have not done so already.

You really hit the nail on the head. A shared language/philosophy between the core team is very important to us, on which infrastructure will be built around.

The Crown papers are opaque on purpose, as our destination is understood, how to get there is another story and we didn't want to let on to our ideas and how to implement them. Everything is coming clearer by the day and the team should have some very interesting documentation to release to the public, in the coming weeks.

Just to add to what defunctec said -- if you just analyze the "crypto" universe as an industry -- bitcoin was a proof of concept for a system... that's all, it was meant to evolve in ways that it hasn't but still may.  Traditionally, when a major new technology, like what I think we all believe these "crypto" systems are, well, you have an explosion of systems and then there is a consolidation process.

Often this gets characterized as "bubbles" -- but that's not quite right, but it's worth remembering that in any innovation cycle, much of the capital invested is destroyed because most of the businesses that are created to pursue the opportunity end up getting destroyed:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-NXDCXzrao

So if one is going to wade into the "deep end" of an innovative new technology, you need to ask what your edge might be... and what if any edge your team might have...

In the case of Crown -- we would like think that we have an edge from just looking at the platform as something which provides business opportunities -- not an opportunity itself but a vehicle on which businesses can be built and operated.  Not just one sort of business or product -- but a lot of different ones... So maybe that's #1.  But then you can look around and convince yourself that other people are doing that... and you can run through any single thing and it's not really clear that anything is necessarily unique.  There are a lot of smart people trying to solve this problem and it's foolish to assume that there aren't smarter people or people with better ideas and or skill out there... but,

What no one seems to have really created is a truly distributed collaborative community and token -- where as entropycoin points out, it doesn't depend on any one person...

And then if you think of building a distributed collaborative culture as your differentiator -- one might imagine a world where one mechanism at play in the consolidation phase would be to create a team that could attract developers and some of those very smart potential competitors to collaborate with Crown (since it's open source, there is no reason that whatever we build at Crown can't be borrowed by anyone else - just as we have borrowed from others, so the code can never really be a final differentiator -- it's just a cost of admission).  To have Crown be a place where people can try out ideas and develop skills, experiment with new things, and learn from and enjoy the folks they are working with...

That experimentation is also essential -- if you believe that there is anything to evolution -- because the way evolution and a lot of technology really seem to work is trial and error -- so we want to be able to run as many experiments (safely) as possible on the Crown Platform -- and if that happens then there is a chance we will start to learn from those experiments and the development process and usefulness of the token accelerates...

crowncoin_knight sometimes suggests this is being good guys... arguably it's more of just don't be an asshole (having worked in finance for too long as made me suspicious of anyone claiming to do good - so I prefer and trust people who are just working hard not to be complete assholes most of the time)...

thanks for noticing...
 

[crowncoin_knight]

57pct of the outstanding coins in Dash are locked in Masternodes

31pct of the outstanding coins in Crown are locked in Trons

I think this is a good benchmark, the goal for us is to get 730 Trones, currently we have around 400

[rhinomonkey]

Sorry to be a bother, I don't want my post to get buried though. Anyway someone can help me out with the Mac wallet installation from the tar.gz? Thanks guys!

I am liking the ideas behind the project. Might I ask - what specific DApps will be most successful or useful being run on throne nodes? I'm having a bit of trouble imagining use cases and this is probably due to me being a bit unclear on exactly how it will all work. I haven't gone through all of the posts in the forum in a while so I may very well be missing some stuff. Nice to be around these parts again though. Thanks LucD for awakening me from my long Bitcointalk slumber. lol.

Cheers!

in terms of what DApps would be most successful or useful -- I don't think any of us really know, but I would offer a few simple observations to help you thinking about the issue -- these examples are meant to be illustrative/informative of potential ways that the functionality we are trying to achieve could be implemented:

1. Just think of it as a client - server network that is cryptographically secured using the key pair and verification capabilities in the Crown Core.  So, what can a secure open client server network be used for?

2. The first stage of applications are likely to just be a migration of services or applications which you have elsewhere onto the platform because it is less expensive, more secure, or ideally just better.  For this first layer of applications, just imagine if you could spin up a docker container of any application that is easily containerized in a single container... don't know if docker will be used, but there will be some sort of containerization and orchestration capabilities which will be able to be used with the API.  Imagine that initially all these simple apps are free to use, but that as the system evolves there would be different purchase models for different applications.

3. Each node operator will have discretion over and responsibilities for applications running on their node/tron.  So there will need to be a service discovery and connection protocol, because users will be selecting a service and a node to run it on.  

4. The application interface will just be a browser window.  In the papers the "temporary mode" of Crown is referred to as the journal.  Functionally, the best way to think of the "journal" implementation is probably just as a browser with a Crown Journal plug-in/extension -- or that is probably the quickest way to implement it.  It's tempting to imagine a customized browser -- but that is probably overkill...

5. No computation is happening on the blockchain.  The blockchain is just being used for transactions & keys -- that's what it for and what it is best at.  The blockchain is permanent -- but the application uses are not.  

6. So what we are talking about isn't DApps like Ethereum has popularized them.  We are just proposing that one might be able to offer the existing applications that are out there, but in a more secure and efficient way.  And we would like to invite developers to come to our platform as a marketplace for their applications over time -- since we would ideally offer access to a global user base, instant payment and our platform doesn't need to charge excessive fees to provide returns for venture investors...

7. In terms of what you would be able to do on this platform -- well, it's a general purpose platform for compute, communication and commerce.  You have integrated payments and you can do whatever you would with any server, as long as it has been packaged as a service by one of the Trons/nodes.  The services themselves may run on the actual machine which is also the machine running the Crown Server software we call a Tron, or it could just be another VM/machine/container which is controlled from the Tron or just contracting with the Tron.  That will be up to the operator of the Tron -- as are the costs of services offered by that node/Tron.  The nodes are thus each really running as cloud service providers, with access and payment managed through the Crown Network.  

8.  There are a number of logic flaws in the DApp model as it exists now -- and they are probably fundamental.  The biggest issue with the DApp model is that by creating a true distributed application framework Ethereum has created an instrument for CENTRALIZATION -- not decentralization.  This is because the point of centralization is in the control structures and logic in the DApps which can't be shut down.  This logic flaw is precisely why Ethereum and clones of it are of interest to corporations -- because a DApp is a perfect instrument for someone to project control through programmatic means.  In this way, I think we all need to consider whether DApps --as appealing as they may sound actually achieve the opposite of their intended object -- or whether there might at least be some unintended consequences.  It would seem we should be open to logic flaws in this system since the existence of last years fork is a sort of testament to one of those logic flaws, and that was just an operational detail -- not the larger ones that scare me.
  
9.  General purpose platform for compute, communication & commerce.  That's a key to really think about.  The value of a currency is from its many uses -- money is useful because it removes the coincidence of wants which constrains a barter economy.  So the best way to create a valuable currency is to create something with many uses... a sort of leatherman tool.... But the other quality of money is that you have to have a community of users -- you can't just build something perfect do an ICO and expect everyone to come -- you have to build the code and the community together and we all have to have ownership.  It has to be shared.  

10.  Anyone launching a coin with a single use, or focus, by definition may be a genius coder -- but they are economically stupid and don't understand what a currency is or why money exists. Anyone doing an ICO also faces an uphill battle because they also don't understand money, and the fact that it's value is socially constructed and that it also needs to be broadly distributed to those who find it useful to be of value -- money does not appear in a voila or unveiling -- or if it does it is meaningless, has no social construct supporting it.  

11.  So this general purpose platform for compute, communication and commerce -- just simply offering this platform as a creative canvas to the community --- that's the key. And if we can attract creative entrepreneurs -- then there is no reason that someone couldn't run a VOIP phone service from a Tron, or a virtual desktop, or run a machine learning / data science server service.  You could just stream video from India or Philippines to expats for a subscription fee...etc  

12. The business model of the core team is that the business of the core team is to provide this canvas.  We will not compete with service providers who are operating outside a set of "utility applications" -- the utility applications will need to be explicitly defined and this will be done through the proposal system Crown inherited from Dash. This commitment of the core team not to be in the application business but to provide an application platform on which entrepreneurs can build businesses is another important feature discussed in the papers which I don't think anyone actually read...   If you think about the business opportunities on and around this sort of platform there are three broad opportunity sets: (1) node operator / service provider, (2) application developer, (3) onboarding & bridging.  The first opportunity is just starting to be implemented; the second opportunity will become active once the API is defined and we will be starting to test it -- so this starts before the code update which pushes the API and other changes out to everyone; the third opportunity set is the one most often forgotten but essential -- how do people get money into Crown?  how and why would a merchant adopt crown in a community?  how do addresses get registered so that they can be used in the future to hold other assets as regulators understand how blockchains lower oversight and compliance costs?  what are the opportunity to move different real world economic transactions and businesses onto the network over time?  

So that's kind of the idea.  General purpose compute first -- then probably communication, and then once we have shown reliability for those -- more and more commerce will come on board.   And the value of the currency would be derived not from the cost of subsidized power in China -- but from the value in use to perform tasks which help people live their lives... pretty simple when you step back a little -- but the devil is in the details...

Hope that makes a little sense...

Thanks for the response. This clarifies things for me. I understand why there hasn't been a specific 'purpose' set for the nodes. The broad applicability of the platform is what will bring value to the network.

You mentioned running machine learning / data science servers. I am under the impression most large data set work is done on GPUs. So the nodes/Trons could operate on a server with access to a GPU cluster and spin it up on demand? I'm trying to imagine how that would cut costs for the end user. Wouldn't something like that be more expensive for the Tron operator?

[chrysophylax]

Edit: You deleted your post??? Oh well, info for anyone else below:

Hey! Im new to Crown. Can someone explain me how I can have Throne and how much Crown I need for it?

Hi Palaxidon, you need 10,000 crowncoins in your wallet, and you need a pc running 24/7.
Or you can swap out the pc with a VPS, which is what everyone seems to be doing.

I have a tutorial on youtube here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lQMaElvCBdA

Alternatively, you can make an account on https://node-vps.com and pay the monthly cost of a cheap vps made specifically to run a throne. This is currently the easiest way and there are only 1 avaliable right now, so if I were you, and I were going to go with this option, i'd make an account right now and buy that last spot before you do anything else, otherwise you might miss it.
I checked yesterday or the day before and there were 3 spots left, so time is running out.

Chaositec runs node-vps and after purchasing the throne vps server, you just supply your throne outputs information, I believe. I can't exactly remember, but I'm sure you can ask for help on our slack / mattermost and someone will assist you if you need it.

I hope this is enough info to get you started, and welcome to Crown!

nice info mate ...

tanx ...

#crysx

[chrysophylax]

nice info mate ...

tanx ...

#crysx

Thanks crysx.
So, what brought you to crown?

the guys attached to spr who are attached to hlm ...

there might be some stuff that could be helpful in both areas and the coins - with us ( cwi ) ...

#crysx

[Palaxidon]

Edit: You deleted your post??? Oh well, info for anyone else below:

Hey! Im new to Crown. Can someone explain me how I can have Throne and how much Crown I need for it?

Hi Palaxidon, you need 10,000 crowncoins in your wallet, and you need a pc running 24/7.
Or you can swap out the pc with a VPS, which is what everyone seems to be doing.

I have a tutorial on youtube here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lQMaElvCBdA

Alternatively, you can make an account on https://node-vps.com and pay the monthly cost of a cheap vps made specifically to run a throne. This is currently the easiest way and there are only 1 avaliable right now, so if I were you, and I were going to go with this option, i'd make an account right now and buy that last spot before you do anything else, otherwise you might miss it.
I checked yesterday or the day before and there were 3 spots left, so time is running out.

Chaositec runs node-vps and after purchasing the throne vps server, you just supply your throne outputs information, I believe. I can't exactly remember, but I'm sure you can ask for help on our slack / mattermost and someone will assist you if you need it.

I hope this is enough info to get you started, and welcome to Crown!

Hi! Thanks a lot for your help. Yes, I deleted the post because I found some info on it allready, but now you explained me everything much better what I wanted to know. Thanks for your fast and very helpful response!

[norcia]

BOUNTY ANNOUNCEMENT

What's needed

- Breadwallet (IOS)

Whats on offer

- 10,000 CRW

Join us on mattermost or PM me for more info

not any  Verification email

[1_Pablo_Angel]

Hi,

are throne payouts normally pretty consistent? I set up 3 thrones and all were walking normally, payouts coming pretty regularly (roughly every 7 hours per throne), then I added a 4th yesterday and although everything looks fine (when running thrones start-all and throne list), I haven't had a payout from any of them since then (about 24 hours).

Any ideas what I might have done wrong, if anything? Not sure if it makes any difference but the bit on the end of the txid was 0 on throne 1, 1 on thrones 2 & 3 and 0 again on the 4th.

Cheers!

[defunctec]

Hi,

are throne payouts normally pretty consistent? I set up 3 thrones and all were walking normally, payouts coming pretty regularly (roughly every 7 hours per throne), then I added a 4th yesterday and although everything looks fine (when running thrones start-all and throne list), I haven't had a payout from any of them since then (about 24 hours).

Any ideas what I might have done wrong, if anything? Not sure if it makes any difference but the bit on the end of the txid was 0 on throne 1, 1 on thrones 2 & 3 and 0 again on the 4th.

Cheers!

Sometimes It can take longer than 24hours for the first payment to come through. Does your throne show enabled status inside your wallet?
If so, I can pretty much guarantee the throne is fine, just need to be patient

[defunctec]

BOUNTY ANNOUNCEMENT

What's needed

- Breadwallet (IOS)

Whats on offer

- 10,000 CRW

Join us on mattermost or PM me for more info

not any  Verification email

Yes we've been having a few problems with confirm emails from mattermost. We still have a backup slack channel you can join

https://crown-hq.slack.com

[stonehedge]

BOUNTY ANNOUNCEMENT

What's needed

- Breadwallet (IOS)

Whats on offer

- 10,000 CRW

Join us on mattermost or PM me for more info

not any  Verification email

Yes we've been having a few problems with confirm emails from mattermost. We still have a backup slack channel you can join

https://crown-hq.slack.com

If anybody is having difficulty signing up to Mattermost, please PM me your email address so I can investigate.

Please also make sure you check your spam folder.

[1_Pablo_Angel]

Hi,

are throne payouts normally pretty consistent? I set up 3 thrones and all were walking normally, payouts coming pretty regularly (roughly every 7 hours per throne), then I added a 4th yesterday and although everything looks fine (when running thrones start-all and throne list), I haven't had a payout from any of them since then (about 24 hours).

Any ideas what I might have done wrong, if anything? Not sure if it makes any difference but the bit on the end of the txid was 0 on throne 1, 1 on thrones 2 & 3 and 0 again on the 4th.

Cheers!

Sometimes It can take longer than 24hours for the first payment to come through. Does your throne show enabled status inside your wallet?
If so, I can pretty much guarantee the throne is fine, just need to be patient

Thanks - yeah all 4 are showing as enabled. But I haven't had a single payment from ANY of them since I set up number 4. The other 3 were paying out regularly until then, which is why I thought it was odd.

I've checked the VM's and everything seems to be working correctly as per the setup guide on them. My local wallet just isn't receiving any payouts anymore.

[1_Pablo_Angel]

Out of interest, does leaving the PC with the local wallet on make any difference to your thrones? I assume that if you turned your PC off for a week then when you loaded the wallet again you'd expect a ton of incoming payments?

[urban_idler]

Out of interest, does leaving the PC with the local wallet on make any difference to your thrones? I assume that if you turned your PC off for a week then when you loaded the wallet again you'd expect a ton of incoming payments?

The local wallet is used to send a signal to the network initially that a "throne" is up and available to be included or "logged in" to the network.

Once the throne is logged in, payments to that throne are independent of the local wallet -- you might want to check periodically to make sure the "throne/node" is still up and "logged in" -- but otherwise there's no dependency on the local wallet.

[1_Pablo_Angel]

Out of interest, does leaving the PC with the local wallet on make any difference to your thrones? I assume that if you turned your PC off for a week then when you loaded the wallet again you'd expect a ton of incoming payments?

The local wallet is used to send a signal to the network initially that a "throne" is up and available to be included or "logged in" to the network.

Once the throne is logged in, payments to that throne are independent of the local wallet -- you might want to check periodically to make sure the "throne/node" is still up and "logged in" -- but otherwise there's no dependency on the local wallet.

Thanks, that's useful to know.

When you restart the wallet could this have any impact on receiving throne rewards? i.e. making it 'start again' so you have to wait longer? Forgive my lack of knowledge as to how they work - I'm trying to figure out any possible reason why none have paid out in over 30 hours since I added the last one.

[crowncoin_knight]

Out of interest, does leaving the PC with the local wallet on make any difference to your thrones? I assume that if you turned your PC off for a week then when you loaded the wallet again you'd expect a ton of incoming payments?

The local wallet is used to send a signal to the network initially that a "throne" is up and available to be included or "logged in" to the network.

Once the throne is logged in, payments to that throne are independent of the local wallet -- you might want to check periodically to make sure the "throne/node" is still up and "logged in" -- but otherwise there's no dependency on the local wallet.

Thanks, that's useful to know.

When you restart the wallet could this have any impact on receiving throne rewards? i.e. making it 'start again' so you have to wait longer? Forgive my lack of knowledge as to how they work - I'm trying to figure out any possible reason why none have paid out in over 30 hours since I added the last one.

I am hosting with node-vps, and remember I had a similar problem, not sure why that was, but I remember that chaositec basically helped me to re-send the several 10k crowns to different addresses and started the thrones again. I am sure chaos will show up soon to give you hints what may be the issue.  

you are using several independent addresses for each throne under one wallet right?

[1_Pablo_Angel]

Out of interest, does leaving the PC with the local wallet on make any difference to your thrones? I assume that if you turned your PC off for a week then when you loaded the wallet again you'd expect a ton of incoming payments?

The local wallet is used to send a signal to the network initially that a "throne" is up and available to be included or "logged in" to the network.

Once the throne is logged in, payments to that throne are independent of the local wallet -- you might want to check periodically to make sure the "throne/node" is still up and "logged in" -- but otherwise there's no dependency on the local wallet.

Thanks, that's useful to know.

When you restart the wallet could this have any impact on receiving throne rewards? i.e. making it 'start again' so you have to wait longer? Forgive my lack of knowledge as to how they work - I'm trying to figure out any possible reason why none have paid out in over 30 hours since I added the last one.

I am hosting with node-vps, and remember I had a similar problem, not sure why that was, but I remember that chaositec basically helped me to re-send the several 10k crowns to different addresses and started the thrones again. I am sure chaos will show up soon to give you hints what may be the issue.  

you are using several independent addresses for each throne under one wallet right?

Cheers - interesting (and promising I guess) if it isn't just me! I'm using vultr btw.

Yep, different addresses but the same wallet.

It's particularly odd because they were all working, and I set the 4th up in an identical way to the first 3. Scratching my head... maybe there'll be some payouts in there when I get up tomorrow morning