Gronthaing
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March 12, 2015, 03:31:11 AM |
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I would not judge all muslim people, just because few islam religious soldiers are doing harm to western civilized world. They are doing it for their God, and they think that is the right thing to do. Of course, it is not.
No one has the right to take someone else's life.
... Unless. Infidels? Or unless they have oil and we have better weapons? There is no place in the Quran where Muhammad commands Muslims to love people of other religions. By contrast there are at least three dozen verses that tell Muslims to fight against non-Muslims and about 500 that speak of their place in Hell. They are from each period in Muhammad's life, scattered across 87 of the Quran's 114 chapters.
The interesting thing about it all is, most of the Muslims live in reasonably illiterate parts of the world. And most of the literate Muslim countries aren't any more interested in reading their holy books than any other religious group is interested in reading theirs. My question is, just how shocked would the Muslims be if they could and did read the Quran and the Hadith? Would they become strict Muslims and change from their peaceful ways to obey the strict, violent writings of their professed religion? Or would they realize that Islam wasn't for them and change to some other religion... or maybe drop the religion idea altogether?  Or do the same as Christians and Jews do? Pick the parts they like and ignore the rest. Truth is that is already what happens. No matter the religion. |
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BADecker
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March 12, 2015, 04:37:35 AM |
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I would not judge all muslim people, just because few islam religious soldiers are doing harm to western civilized world. They are doing it for their God, and they think that is the right thing to do. Of course, it is not.
No one has the right to take someone else's life.
... Unless. Infidels? Or unless they have oil and we have better weapons? That isn't right. It's capability. There is no place in the Quran where Muhammad commands Muslims to love people of other religions. By contrast there are at least three dozen verses that tell Muslims to fight against non-Muslims and about 500 that speak of their place in Hell. They are from each period in Muhammad's life, scattered across 87 of the Quran's 114 chapters.
The interesting thing about it all is, most of the Muslims live in reasonably illiterate parts of the world. And most of the literate Muslim countries aren't any more interested in reading their holy books than any other religious group is interested in reading theirs. My question is, just how shocked would the Muslims be if they could and did read the Quran and the Hadith? Would they become strict Muslims and change from their peaceful ways to obey the strict, violent writings of their professed religion? Or would they realize that Islam wasn't for them and change to some other religion... or maybe drop the religion idea altogether? Or do the same as Christians and Jews do? Pick the parts they like and ignore the rest. Truth is that is already what happens. No matter the religion. People of all religions have trouble stomaching the things of their own religion that they don't like. However, of the major religions of today, Islam writings contain the most violence. Violence is a big thing. Doing or not doing miracles might be big. Speaking in tongues or not might be big with some. Yet, somehow those things don't seem as important as the call to openly do violence. |
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Gronthaing
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March 12, 2015, 05:39:47 AM |
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I would not judge all muslim people, just because few islam religious soldiers are doing harm to western civilized world. They are doing it for their God, and they think that is the right thing to do. Of course, it is not.
No one has the right to take someone else's life.
... Unless. Infidels? Or unless they have oil and we have better weapons? That isn't right. It's capability. Tell that to American and European colonial powers. Been using that capability as if it was a right for centuries. There is no place in the Quran where Muhammad commands Muslims to love people of other religions. By contrast there are at least three dozen verses that tell Muslims to fight against non-Muslims and about 500 that speak of their place in Hell. They are from each period in Muhammad's life, scattered across 87 of the Quran's 114 chapters.
The interesting thing about it all is, most of the Muslims live in reasonably illiterate parts of the world. And most of the literate Muslim countries aren't any more interested in reading their holy books than any other religious group is interested in reading theirs. My question is, just how shocked would the Muslims be if they could and did read the Quran and the Hadith? Would they become strict Muslims and change from their peaceful ways to obey the strict, violent writings of their professed religion? Or would they realize that Islam wasn't for them and change to some other religion... or maybe drop the religion idea altogether? Or do the same as Christians and Jews do? Pick the parts they like and ignore the rest. Truth is that is already what happens. No matter the religion. People of all religions have trouble stomaching the things of their own religion that they don't like. However, of the major religions of today, Islam writings contain the most violence. Violence is a big thing. Doing or not doing miracles might be big. Speaking in tongues or not might be big with some. Yet, somehow those things don't seem as important as the call to openly do violence. Yet somehow the vast majority of Muslims aren't violent murdering psychopaths. Same as Christians. Same as Jews. They go about their life like anyone else. Trying to put food on the table and take care of their family. Violence isn't normalized the way you're making it out to be just because they are Muslim. They ignore that part of their religion as others do. And if someone is in fact a murdering psychopath he will justify it with the violent parts of their beliefs. Same with other religions. |
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MUCHSIN
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March 12, 2015, 07:48:47 AM |
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Posting something like this doesnt help.
We should not hate, or push people to hate other people.
Why not post something that makes sense, or some news?
Not this.
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BADecker
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March 12, 2015, 10:11:21 AM |
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Wilikon (OP)
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minds.com/Wilikon
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March 12, 2015, 03:19:03 PM |
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Posting something like this doesnt help.
We should not hate, or push people to hate other people.
Why not post something that makes sense, or some news?
Not this.
... You are welcome... |
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Spendulus
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March 12, 2015, 04:20:40 PM |
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Yet somehow the vast majority of Muslims aren't violent murdering psychopaths. Same as Christians. Same as Jews. They go about their life like anyone else. Trying to put food on the table and take care of their family. Violence isn't normalized the way you're making it out to be just because they are Muslim. They ignore that part of their religion as others do. And if someone is in fact a murdering psychopath he will justify it with the violent parts of their beliefs. Same with other religions.
LAST FOUR DAYS OF ISLAM PEACE 2015.03.11 (Hurriya, Iraq) - A suicide car bomber eliminates nine people along a city street. 2015.03.10 (Tirin Kot, Afghanistan) - Two children are disassembled along with two others by Taliban bombers. 2015.03.10 (Lashkar Gah, Afghanistan) - Seven civilians are exterminated by a Shahid suicide bomber. 2015.03.10 (Maiduguri, Nigeria) - A female suicide bomber slaughters nearly three dozen people at a market. 2015.03.10 (al-Arish, Egypt) - A civilian is killed when a Shahid suicide bomber rams a water tanker. 2015.03.08 (Joypurhat, Bangladesh) - One passenger is killed when Islami Chhatra Shibir bombers target a bus. LAST FOUR DAYS OF JEWISH PEACE .... LAST FOUR DAYS OF CHRISTIAN PEACE .... Time after time in this thread, some person tries to put on the Wise Guy hat and evoke moral equivalency. The facts simply do not seem to bear it out, though. |
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Gronthaing
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March 12, 2015, 09:38:12 PM |
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Yet somehow the vast majority of Muslims aren't violent murdering psychopaths. Same as Christians. Same as Jews. They go about their life like anyone else. Trying to put food on the table and take care of their family. Violence isn't normalized the way you're making it out to be just because they are Muslim. They ignore that part of their religion as others do. And if someone is in fact a murdering psychopath he will justify it with the violent parts of their beliefs. Same with other religions.
LAST FOUR DAYS OF ISLAM PEACE 2015.03.11 (Hurriya, Iraq) - A suicide car bomber eliminates nine people along a city street. 2015.03.10 (Tirin Kot, Afghanistan) - Two children are disassembled along with two others by Taliban bombers. 2015.03.10 (Lashkar Gah, Afghanistan) - Seven civilians are exterminated by a Shahid suicide bomber. 2015.03.10 (Maiduguri, Nigeria) - A female suicide bomber slaughters nearly three dozen people at a market. 2015.03.10 (al-Arish, Egypt) - A civilian is killed when a Shahid suicide bomber rams a water tanker. 2015.03.08 (Joypurhat, Bangladesh) - One passenger is killed when Islami Chhatra Shibir bombers target a bus. LAST FOUR DAYS OF JEWISH PEACE .... LAST FOUR DAYS OF CHRISTIAN PEACE .... Time after time in this thread, some person tries to put on the Wise Guy hat and evoke moral equivalency. The facts simply do not seem to bear it out, though. Again, Muslims make up what? 20% of the population of the world? I don't think we have a billion and a half murderers running around. Attributing those events to the faith alone without understanding the context in which they happen doesn't help. It's as misguided as saying Christianity is responsible for killing over 6 million Jews at the hands of Hitler (he said it himself that it wasn't based on racial knowledge but on religion). Or blaming Christianity for the IRA. Or for the KKK. Or for Breivik. Or for anti Muslim violence in Central Africa. Or anti Hindu violence in India. Or anti abortion violence in America. Etc. It all happens within context. Why do you expect Muslims to behave differently to every other human being on the planet? |
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BADecker
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March 13, 2015, 05:41:21 AM |
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Yet somehow the vast majority of Muslims aren't violent murdering psychopaths. Same as Christians. Same as Jews. They go about their life like anyone else. Trying to put food on the table and take care of their family. Violence isn't normalized the way you're making it out to be just because they are Muslim. They ignore that part of their religion as others do. And if someone is in fact a murdering psychopath he will justify it with the violent parts of their beliefs. Same with other religions.
LAST FOUR DAYS OF ISLAM PEACE 2015.03.11 (Hurriya, Iraq) - A suicide car bomber eliminates nine people along a city street. 2015.03.10 (Tirin Kot, Afghanistan) - Two children are disassembled along with two others by Taliban bombers. 2015.03.10 (Lashkar Gah, Afghanistan) - Seven civilians are exterminated by a Shahid suicide bomber. 2015.03.10 (Maiduguri, Nigeria) - A female suicide bomber slaughters nearly three dozen people at a market. 2015.03.10 (al-Arish, Egypt) - A civilian is killed when a Shahid suicide bomber rams a water tanker. 2015.03.08 (Joypurhat, Bangladesh) - One passenger is killed when Islami Chhatra Shibir bombers target a bus. LAST FOUR DAYS OF JEWISH PEACE .... LAST FOUR DAYS OF CHRISTIAN PEACE .... Time after time in this thread, some person tries to put on the Wise Guy hat and evoke moral equivalency. The facts simply do not seem to bear it out, though. Again, Muslims make up what? 20% of the population of the world? I don't think we have a billion and a half murderers running around. Attributing those events to the faith alone without understanding the context in which they happen doesn't help. It's as misguided as saying Christianity is responsible for killing over 6 million Jews at the hands of Hitler (he said it himself that it wasn't based on racial knowledge but on religion). Or blaming Christianity for the IRA. Or for the KKK. Or for Breivik. Or for anti Muslim violence in Central Africa. Or anti Hindu violence in India. Or anti abortion violence in America. Etc. It all happens within context. Why do you expect Muslims to behave differently to every other human being on the planet? Islam is mostly a non-religion religion. Why? Because the only Islamic laws that the people follow are a few of the outer, unimportant ones. They don't even know what their laws are. |
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Muhammed Zakir
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March 13, 2015, 05:46:08 AM |
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Islam is mostly a non-religion religion. Why? Because the only Islamic laws that the people follow are a few of the outer, unimportant ones. They don't even know what their laws are. You are right. In this modern world, most of then doesn't know the laws and most of them make their own. But I disagree on one thing, not *all* does this. There are people who do but that doesn't mean all of the persons from that community are wrong. If you are telling "it is", then all people in all countries would be bad people.  |
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BADecker
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March 13, 2015, 06:03:22 AM |
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Islam is mostly a non-religion religion. Why? Because the only Islamic laws that the people follow are a few of the outer, unimportant ones. They don't even know what their laws are. You are right. In this modern world, most of then doesn't know the laws and most of them make their own. But I disagree on one thing, not *all* does this. There are people who do but that doesn't mean all of the persons from that community are wrong. If you are telling "it is", then all people in all countries would be bad people. I agree with you in this. There are those who follow Islamic laws reasonably accurately, though they are fewer in number by far than those who don't know or follow their Islamic religion. We see the Muslims who follow Islam accurately in all the statistics that Spendulus and Wilikon present in their posts. |
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Spendulus
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March 13, 2015, 10:44:47 PM |
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Yet somehow the vast majority of Muslims aren't violent murdering psychopaths. Same as Christians. Same as Jews. They go about their life like anyone else. Trying to put food on the table and take care of their family. Violence isn't normalized the way you're making it out to be just because they are Muslim. They ignore that part of their religion as others do. And if someone is in fact a murdering psychopath he will justify it with the violent parts of their beliefs. Same with other religions.
LAST FOUR DAYS OF ISLAM PEACE 2015.03.11 (Hurriya, Iraq) - A suicide car bomber eliminates nine people along a city street. 2015.03.10 (Tirin Kot, Afghanistan) - Two children are disassembled along with two others by Taliban bombers. 2015.03.10 (Lashkar Gah, Afghanistan) - Seven civilians are exterminated by a Shahid suicide bomber. 2015.03.10 (Maiduguri, Nigeria) - A female suicide bomber slaughters nearly three dozen people at a market. 2015.03.10 (al-Arish, Egypt) - A civilian is killed when a Shahid suicide bomber rams a water tanker. 2015.03.08 (Joypurhat, Bangladesh) - One passenger is killed when Islami Chhatra Shibir bombers target a bus. LAST FOUR DAYS OF JEWISH PEACE .... LAST FOUR DAYS OF CHRISTIAN PEACE .... Time after time in this thread, some person tries to put on the Wise Guy hat and evoke moral equivalency. The facts simply do not seem to bear it out, though. Again, Muslims make up what? 20% of the population of the world? I don't think we have a billion and a half murderers running around. Attributing those events to the faith alone without understanding the context in which they happen doesn't help. It's as misguided as saying Christianity is responsible for killing over 6 million Jews at the hands of Hitler (he said it himself that it wasn't based on racial knowledge but on religion). Or blaming Christianity for the IRA. Or for the KKK. Or for Breivik. Or for anti Muslim violence in Central Africa. Or anti Hindu violence in India. Or anti abortion violence in America. Etc. It all happens within context. Why do you expect Muslims to behave differently to every other human being on the planet? well, we sure don't have a bunch of Christians running around shouting "Holy Jesus" and then hacking peoples' heads off. But let's see....for February, how many Allah Ackbar attacks? 42..... But I do agree with a lot of what you are saying, do not get me wrong. It's just that you have to look long and hard and even go back into history to find the facts to support the position of a "moral equivalency." Basically the argument of moral equivalency falls short of a reasonable standard. Sure, it's going to be a popular argument. I've been trying to show that on examination of the facts, it does not hold water. Meanwhile, today on the Islamic Holy War front.... 2015.03.13 (Mandera, Kenya) - Islamists ambush a car and shoot three occupants to death. 2015.03.13 (Raqqa, Syria) - Eight prisoners are forced to their knees and then beheaded with meat cleavers by the Islamic State.Oh, you say. It's no different than the KKK, or the Irish, or the anti abortion violence.REALLY? |
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Spendulus
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March 14, 2015, 12:56:24 PM |
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I think I agree with you. The ISIS may use that phrase, but then if we use it because that's what they call it, it should be "ISIS's alleged Islamic Holy War." Because yeah it's totally crazy. |
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AtheistAKASaneBrain
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March 14, 2015, 03:43:16 PM |
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I think I agree with you. The ISIS may use that phrase, but then if we use it because that's what they call it, it should be "ISIS's alleged Islamic Holy War." Because yeah it's totally crazy. Terrorists always self-appropriate all these grandiose terms like "holly war" and in their twisted POV it seems they legitimately believe it so. |
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Spendulus
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March 15, 2015, 02:05:21 AM |
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I think I agree with you. The ISIS may use that phrase, but then if we use it because that's what they call it, it should be "ISIS's alleged Islamic Holy War." Because yeah it's totally crazy. Terrorists always self-appropriate all these grandiose terms like "holly war" and in their twisted POV it seems they legitimately believe it so. Terrorists and evil men, yes. |
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Wilikon (OP)
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March 15, 2015, 02:31:29 AM |
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LA Public School Teaching Kids "Allah is the One True God"----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Big deal! I remember getting tested a lot on Yahweh and Haile Selassie I when I was in public school... Just like that! Not.
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BADecker
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March 15, 2015, 11:06:18 PM |
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LA Public School Teaching Kids "Allah is the One True God"image ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Big deal! I remember getting tested a lot on Yahweh and Haile Selassie I when I was in public school... Just like that! Not. The American nation was founded by people who were Christian in a big way. True, lots of evil people have used the nation over the years for unChristian activity. But the base was Christian. You can find all kinds of Christian sayings and indicators throughout Washington, D.C. The point is that Christianity will be found in the books and school teachings simply because that's where the nation came from, that is how it was settled originally. Do Arab and Islamic countries teach Christianity in schools? Do they teach their kids Islam? |
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Muhammed Zakir
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March 16, 2015, 05:19:39 PM |
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=snip=
Do Arab and Islamic countries teach Christianity in schools?
Not all schools. Comparatively few. Do they teach their kids Islam? Yes, most of them. |
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tins
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March 17, 2015, 02:03:41 AM |
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The American nation was founded by people who were Christian in a big way. True, lots of evil people have used the nation over the years for unChristian activity. But the base was Christian. You can find all kinds of Christian sayings and indicators throughout Washington, D.C.
The point is that Christianity will be found in the books and school teachings simply because that's where the nation came from, that is how it was settled originally.
It was settled as a Christian society by England before its Independence. The U.S. inherited that Christian foundation, as many of the architects of the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights (7 years later) were religious, in their public life, but non practicing in their private affairs. (For example, our first elected* President, George Washington. He was a dues paying member of over a dozen churches, even a board member on several, but rarely attended a Sunday service while home in Mt. Vernon, Virginia. Yet, on public trips, made a show to attend church services several times a week.) *President of the Continental Congress was a largely ceremonial position. Therefore, most (all) historians begin the first presidency, with George Washington, in 1789. EDIT: In my head, I was mixing up the Bill of Rights with the Treaty of Paris...Bill of Rights was 15 years later, not 7. |
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