Why do islam hates people?

[r3wt]

By ignoring the question i posed 3 pages ago, you have proven that i cannot trust you Mohamet Zakir. Why should i trust you if you cannot answer the simple question i give you?

Shame on you Mohamet Zakir! How can you miss his question! it is just mere 50 pages! you should go back and forth and review all posts, I cannot trust you too. this is a valid metric to estalish how untrustworthy you are....  

He responded to the question, but it was no answer, as you can see:

My name is Muhammed Zakir not Mohamet Zakir.

What type of answer are you looking for? I may not be able to answer in a way you think. However, if you can clarify a bit, it will be helpful. As I have mentioned earlier, either I will have to make my English better or you will have to know Malayalam for a better answer. Sorry if it isn't answer your question but I can't understand "why" it isn't an answer to your question.

Ok, i will try to say it in a way that you can understand. I guess that you are losing in translation the point of the message. so i will clarify before asking the question.

1) I am not alleging that all Terrorists are Muslims
2) I am not alleging that all Muslims are Terrorists
3) My friend Ahmed is Muslim, and we have discussed briefly the differences in our Religions.
4) I subscribe to many Scholarly mailing lists. I have learned a small detail of Islam from these lists in various discussions that arise.
5) It is my understanding that a stated goal of Islam is for all people to practice Islam as the dominant religion on the planet.
6) When i refer to Terrorists, i am speaking of Islamic Extremists, that is Terrorists who identify themselves as muslims.

Now my question:

If Islam does not teach violence against the so-called "Infidel" (Non Muslim) why do the group of people mentioned in #6 of my list Identify it has a righteous crusade for their religion. Stop feigning ignorance and answer this question, or you will be sure to have been proven a liar or one who does not disclosing the full truth!

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[lophie]

Okay, I will indulge and dip my feet here. So you question was

Then can you tell us all why Terrorist are always identifying with the Islamic Faith, and Jihad?

And you do not think his answer was sufficient and explanatory enough. Okay,

For me I would say that what you are thinking of is the association by the media. Most of it is not blatant lies but it is not correct. You see the Arab world is a very disturbed place. All governments there are  puppets to who will feed them more and tyrants to who asks them to be fed off their own land and resources. Every single entity that would go against any of them is labelled a "terrorist group" by the media. Jihad means to strive and to struggle and it perfectly fits their causes. You hear the word and you see blood and explosions and the media associating it with "terrorism" and voila, "Terrorist are always identifying with the Islamic Faith". But you see back then in the period so called the cold war the association was against the Russians. they had others before that and they will have others after Muslims and Arabs. This is summed nicely in the theory of war-economy and how it is expected to get worse and worse very soon in the upcoming year.

Also -even though I don't condone and approve, But understand- if you consider the events of terrorism and not how these involved people came to be, I think you are among terrorists and you don't even know it, Especially if you are a US citizen. Take for example the people who crashed the airplaces in 9/11. Horrible right? Thousands died and so much was lost. Do you understand that those people did not need to be brainwashed? Thousands of deaths is something that happened to them on daily basis by the Americans and foreigners that came bringing "freedom" and only brought blood to the old and the young, to the girls and women. Is their struggle less understandable of an American because he was "disturbed" with a falling building when he was drinking his coffee in Starbucks? Because he felt sad about a couple of thousands that he most likely met here and there and never even said hi? These people lost mothers and fathers and friends. They saw buildings fall over them along with their families (Acceptable causality?). they saw mothers raped and neighbours accused and killed, in the name of "freedom". Yes blood came locally for many many years but that is not an excuse to come and spill more blood in the name of false "freedom".

War is ugly and none in the game that is not to be blamed, Some just have better news channels and control over the media. The ones you call terrorists are the ones every overseas-wars-supporter helped make.

[r3wt]

Okay, I will indulge and dip my feet here. So you question was

Then can you tell us all why Terrorist are always identifying with the Islamic Faith, and Jihad?

And you do not think his answer was sufficient and explanatory enough. Okay,

For me I would say that what you are thinking of is the association by the media. Most of it is not blatant lies but it is not correct. You see the Arab world is a very disturbed place. All governments there are  puppets to who will feed them more and tyrants to who asks them to be fed off their own land and resources. Every single entity that would go against any of them is labelled a "terrorist group" by the media. Jihad means to strive and to struggle and it perfectly fits their causes. You hear the word and you see blood and explosions and the media associating it with "terrorism" and voila, "Terrorist are always identifying with the Islamic Faith". But you see back then in the period so called the cold war the association was against the Russians. they had others before that and they will have others after Muslims and Arabs. This is summed nicely in the theory of war-economy and how it is expected to get worse and worse very soon in the upcoming year.

Also -even though I don't condone and approve, But understand- if you consider the events of terrorism and not how these involved people came to be, I think you are among terrorists and you don't even know it, Especially if you are a US citizen. Take for example the people who crashed the airplaces in 9/11. Horrible right? Thousands died and so much was lost. Do you understand that those people did not need to be brainwashed? Thousands of deaths is something that happened to them on daily basis by the Americans and foreigners that came bringing "freedom" and only brought blood to the old and the young, to the girls and women. Is their struggle less understandable of an American because he was "disturbed" with a falling building when he was drinking his coffee in Starbucks? Because he felt sad about a couple of thousands that he most likely met here and there and never even said hi? These people lost mothers and fathers and friends. They saw buildings fall over them along with their families (Acceptable causality?). they saw mothers raped and neighbours accused and killed, in the name of "freedom". Yes blood came locally for many many years but that is not an excuse to come and spill more blood in the name of false "freedom".

War is ugly and none in the game that is not to be blamed, Some just have better news channels and control over the media. The ones you call terrorists are the ones every overseas-wars-supporter helped make.

Two wrongs do not result in a right. The people who died in that terrorist attacks of 9/11 were normal people. Working a job. These people had nothing to do with the killing that occurred in your country.

[lophie]

If Islam does not teach violence against the so-called "Infidel" (Non Muslim) why do the group of people mentioned in #6 of my list Identify it has a righteous crusade for their religion. Stop feigning ignorance and answer this question, or you will be sure to have been proven a liar or one who does not disclosing the full truth!

It is because in Islam it was easier for priests to be powerful. Since The prophet Mohammad was a leader as well as a preacher it gave the impression that a leader can be a preacher as well. Guess what people in power preached since Mohammad died?

The message is alive, But people are people. Ever since he died until the present day. I won't even have to say which countries because it is pretty obvious. Where the leaders are the preachers. And they happily bend and twist Islam to fit their needs everyday.

[r3wt]

If Islam does not teach violence against the so-called "Infidel" (Non Muslim) why do the group of people mentioned in #6 of my list Identify it has a righteous crusade for their religion. Stop feigning ignorance and answer this question, or you will be sure to have been proven a liar or one who does not disclosing the full truth!

It is because in Islam it was easier for priests to be powerful. Since The prophet Mohammad was a leader as well as a preacher it gave the impression that a leader can be a preacher as well. Guess what people in power preached since Mohammad died?

The message is alive, But people are people. Ever since he died until the present day. I won't even have to say which countries because it is pretty obvious. Where the leaders are the preachers. And they happily bend and twist Islam to fit their needs everyday.

Well you have to understand, I am American. You are not i assume. So we likely would have differing opinions of what "is pretty obvious". I am inclined to hear what you have to say, with an open mind and open heart. My interest is in truth, and peace for our planet is a goal for most people on earth, atleast

[lophie]

Two wrongs do not result in a right. The people who died in that terrorist attacks of 9/11 were normal people. Working a job. These people had nothing to do with the killing that occurred in your country.

Yes of course I am assuming the baker across the street was a member of the expendable soldiers group of alquaida and he deserved tens of tons in explosives to make sure the epic defenses of the retro village he lived in. And of course civilian causalities were not expected, they just happened that TONS AND TONS of explosives affected many neighbouring districts.

What do you think the American soldiers are doing over seas? Do battles braveheart style with two platoons in front of eachother and the leaders starting with a speech?

I will give you a question then. Assuming you were in thier shoes and that is the reality of the country you live in. How else do you suggest the people would fight for their lives and freedom and at least push these TERRORISTS back so they can... live...

Disclaimer: Not in my country. In the countries of many friends and distant family members and loved ones, Personal stories with no bullshit.

[lophie]

Well you have to understand, I am American. You are not i assume. So we likely would have differing opinions of what "is pretty obvious". I am inclined to hear what you have to say, with an open mind and open heart. My interest is in truth, and peace for our planet is a goal for most people on earth, atleast

Then please be patient of a person halfway across the world writing on a public forum in his free time to share his opinion and belief in a nice discussion with you. Don't slam untrustworthy when you know that the media around you are feeding you shit everyday even when you are not asking them.

Fair enough?

[Muhammed Zakir]

=snip=
6) When i refer to Terrorists, i am speaking of Islamic Extremists, that is Terrorists who identify themselves as muslims.

Now my question:

If Islam does not teach violence against the so-called "Infidel" (Non Muslim) why do the group of people mentioned in #6 of my list Identify it has a righteous crusade for their religion. Stop feigning ignorance and answer this question, or you will be sure to have been proven a liar or one who does not disclosing the full truth!

First what is Islamic extremists? One who follows Islam in extreme way, right? If Islamf doesn't teach people to kill non-muslims? Are they really extremisits? Or people who don't even know what Islam tells? The problem here is most terrorists are brainwashed when they were kids. They twist it very hard that kids can't be came back to normal easily. When they mature, they gives them duties like attacking certain places. It is like training dogs. Well, I ain't saying they are dogs, just comparing the action done here. Consider it as a metaphor or something. We can't catch the "person" who brainwash kids because he/she will tell them to suicide if they are caught and also mostly, they interact with each other using a third party/person. So that even if they are caught, they don't know who injected terrorism into their mind.

 Islamic extremists don't bother about most things except spending almost all of their time for praying. So I don't know how terrorists can Islamic extremists as they contradicts Islamic teachings/rules.

[r3wt]

=snip=
6) When i refer to Terrorists, i am speaking of Islamic Extremists, that is Terrorists who identify themselves as muslims.

Now my question:

If Islam does not teach violence against the so-called "Infidel" (Non Muslim) why do the group of people mentioned in #6 of my list Identify it has a righteous crusade for their religion. Stop feigning ignorance and answer this question, or you will be sure to have been proven a liar or one who does not disclosing the full truth!

First what is Islamic extremists? One who follows Islam in extreme way, right? If Islamf doesn't teach people to kill non-muslims? Are they really extremisits? Or people who don't even know what Islam tells? The problem here is most terrorists are brainwashed when they were kids. They twist it very hard that kids can't be came back to normal easily. When they mature, they gives them duties like attacking certain places. It is like training dogs. Well, I ain't saying they are dogs, just comparing the action done here. Consider it as a metaphor or something. We can't catch the "person" who brainwash kids because he/she will tell them to suicide if they are caught and also mostly, they interact with each other using a third party/person. So that even if they are caught, they don't know who injected terrorism into their mind.

 Islamic extremists don't bother about most things except spending almost all of their time for praying. So I don't know how terrorists can Islamic extremists as they contradicts Islamic teachings/rules.

Thank you for answering the question. How can you prove that Islam do not teach these things? Do you have passages to quote from the Quran?

[lophie]

Thank you for answering the question. How can you prove that Islam do not teach these things? Do you have passages to quote from the Quran?

No he cannot, at least not to the liking of most people around here. Because they still think the Quoran is like the bible or other traditional books. I mean in terms of arrangement and the passages. The Quoran cannot be understood without the hadith, knowledge of the history of the verses and the context they were told upon and under. People around here will shove back any verse that talks about peace with another that say fight, fight, be strong, be strong. This is not a contradiction. The Quoran was told and delivered over YEARS. every verse or a group of verses are mostly concerning certain events as they unfolded. Islam was a revolution of the mind and the human nature amidst barbarian nomads. Of course the Quoran has plenty of talks about those wars. You can easily random a section and it wont be long until you see something that you can be twisted and turned to be shown to tell that it that it is so generally asking people to kill, kill, fight and fight some more.

You want to know how islam thinks about war? If you live in my country and build a church and preach every day in a peaceful way. GOD is asking me to protect you and rebuild any harm that might come to you and your church and I will be most awarded if I ever had to die for you, A Christian or of another belief.

But you know what also the Quoran said in a general matter? "And they won't accept you, Neither the Jews nor the Christians until you follow what they believe". Sadly most people are like that.

[r3wt]

Thank you for answering the question. How can you prove that Islam do not teach these things? Do you have passages to quote from the Quran?

No he cannot, at least not to the liking of most people around here. Because they still think the Quoran is like the bible or other traditional books. I mean in terms of arrangement and the passages. The Quoran cannot be understood without the hadith, knowledge of the history of the verses and the context they were told upon and under. People around here will shove back any verse that talks about peace with another that say fight, fight, be strong, be strong. This is not a contradiction. The Quoran was told and delivered over YEARS. every verse or a group of verses are mostly concerning certain events as they unfolded. Islam was a revolution of the mind and the human nature amidst barbarian nomads. Of course the Quoran has plenty of talks about those wars. You can easily random a section and it wont be long until you see something that you can twist and turn and tell that it is so generally asking people to kill, kill, fight and fight some more.

You want to know how islam thinks about war? If you live in my country and build a church and preach every day in a peaceful way. GOD is asking me to protect you and rebuild any harm that might come to you and your church and I will be most awarded if I ever had to die for you, A Christian or of another belief.

But you know what also the Quoran said in a general matter? "And they won't accept you, Neither the Jew nor the Christians until you follow what they believe". Sadly most people are like that.

There is a song we sing

"He[God] told me that the world would hate me if He[God] wrote my name [in the book of life/meaning you have accept God in your life as the one true god of all creation]"

[lophie]

Thank you for answering the question. How can you prove that Islam do not teach these things? Do you have passages to quote from the Quran?

No he cannot, at least not to the liking of most people around here. Because they still think the Quoran is like the bible or other traditional books. I mean in terms of arrangement and the passages. The Quoran cannot be understood without the hadith, knowledge of the history of the verses and the context they were told upon and under. People around here will shove back any verse that talks about peace with another that say fight, fight, be strong, be strong. This is not a contradiction. The Quoran was told and delivered over YEARS. every verse or a group of verses are mostly concerning certain events as they unfolded. Islam was a revolution of the mind and the human nature amidst barbarian nomads. Of course the Quoran has plenty of talks about those wars. You can easily random a section and it wont be long until you see something that you can twist and turn and tell that it is so generally asking people to kill, kill, fight and fight some more.

You want to know how islam thinks about war? If you live in my country and build a church and preach every day in a peaceful way. GOD is asking me to protect you and rebuild any harm that might come to you and your church and I will be most awarded if I ever had to die for you, A Christian or of another belief.

But you know what also the Quoran said in a general matter? "And they won't accept you, Neither the Jew nor the Christians until you follow what they believe". Sadly most people are like that.

There is a song we sing

"He[God] told me that the world would hate me if He[God] wrote my name [in the book of life/meaning you have accept God in your life as the one true god of all creation]"

In our generations' terms. These two sayings means "Haters gonna hate, Potatoes gonna potate" 

[lophie]

By mistake I opened the first page in this thread and I read a post about organized religion. YEAH! that pretty much sums it. Religion and belief is something very personal and it is wonderful that we can share it and discuss it with other people. But there are stages and places where it has to stop! I hate all organized made religions, Islam included.

[Muhammed Zakir]

49:06 - “ ye who believe! If a wicked person comes to you with any news, ascertain the truth, lest ye harm people unwittingly, and afterwards become full of repentance for what ye have done.”

49:09 - “If two parties among you fall into a quarrel, make ye peace between them: but if one of them transgresses beyond bounds against the other, then fight ye (all) against the one that transgresses until it complies with the command of Allah; but if it complies, then make peace between them with justice, and be fair: for Allah loves those who are fair (and just).”

49:11 - “O ye who believe! Let not some men among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former): Nor let some women laugh at others: It may be that the (latter are better than the (former): Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, (to be used of one) after he has believed: And those who do not desist are (indeed) doing wrong.”

2:256 - “Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.”

6:151 - “Say: "Come, I will rehearse what Allah hath (really) prohibited you from": Join not anything as equal with Him; be good to your parents; kill not your children on a plea of want;- We provide sustenance for you and for them;- come not nigh to shameful deeds. Whether open or secret; take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus doth He command you, that ye may learn wisdom.”

8:61 - “But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in Allah. for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things). ”

5:8 - “O ye who believe! stand out firmly for Allah, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety: and fear Allah. For Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do”

Do not be people without minds of your own, saying that if others treat you well you will treat them well, and that if they do wrong you will do wrong to them. Instead, accustom yourselves to do good if people do good and not to do wrong (even) if they do evil.” (Al-Tirmidhi)

Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 43, Number 624:
Narrated Anas:

“Allah's Apostle said, "Help your brother, whether he is an oppressor or he is an oppressed one. People asked, "O Allah's Apostle! It is all right to help him if he is oppressed, but how should we help him if he is an oppressor?" The Prophet said, "By preventing him from oppressing others."”

Bulhari, Volume 3, Book 43, Number 629:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

“Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever has oppressed another person concerning his reputation or anything else, he should beg him to forgive him before the Day of Resurrection when there will be no money (to compensate for wrong deeds), but if he has good deeds, those good deeds will be taken from him according to his oppression which he has done, and if he has no good deeds, the sins of the oppressed person will be loaded on him."”

Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 43, Number 637:
Narrated 'Aisha:

The Prophet said, "The most hated person in the sight of Allah is the most quarrelsome person."

Bulhari, Volume 3, Book 43, Number 639:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Amr:

The Prophet said, "Whoever has (the following) four characters will be a hypocrite, and whoever has one of the following four characteristics will have one characteristic of hypocrisy until he gives it up. These are: (1 ) Whenever he talks, he tells a lie; (2) whenever he makes a promise, he breaks it; (3) whenever he makes a covenant he proves treacherous; (4) and whenever he quarrels, he behaves impudently in an evil insulting manner."

Bulhari, Volume 3, Book 43, Number 646:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, "A man felt very thirsty while he was on the way, there he came across a well. He went down the well, quenched his thirst and came out. Meanwhile he saw a dog panting and licking mud because of excessive thirst. He said to himself, "This dog is suffering from thirst as I did." So, he went down the well again and filled his shoe with water and watered it. Allah thanked him for that deed and forgave him. The people said, "O Allah's Apostle! Is there a reward for us in serving the animals?" He replied: "Yes, there is a reward for serving any animate (living being)."

Bulhari, Volume 3, Book 43, Number 654:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin Yazid Al-Ansari:

The Prophet forbade robbery (taking away what belongs to others without their permission), and also forbade mutilation (or maiming) of bodies.

Bulhari, Volume 3, Book 43, Number 661:
Narrated Anas:

While the Prophet was with one of his wives, one of the mothers of the believers (i.e. one of his wives) sent a wooden bowl containing food with a servant. The wife (in whose house he was sitting) stroke the bowl with her hand and broke it. The Prophet collected the shattered pieces and put the food back in it and said, "Eat." He kept the servant and the bowl till he had eaten the food. Then the Prophet gave another unbroken. bowl to the servant and kept the broken one.

[Muhammed Zakir]

But you know what also the Quoran said in a general matter? "And they won't accept you, Neither the Jews nor the Christians until you follow what they believe". Sadly most people are like that.

5:68 - “Say: "O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord." It is the revelation that cometh to thee from thy Lord, that increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. But sorrow thou not over (these) people without Faith.”

5:69 - “Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.”

5:72 - “They do blaspheme who say: "(Allah) is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah,- Allah will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help.”

5:75 - “Christ the son of Mary was no more than an apostle; many were the apostles that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!”

5:76 - “Say: "Will ye worship, besides Allah, something which hath no power either to harm or benefit you? But Allah,- He it is that heareth and knoweth all things."”

5:77 - “Say: "O people of the Book! exceed not in your religion the bounds (of what is proper), trespassing beyond the truth, nor follow the vain desires of people who went wrong in times gone by,- who misled many, and strayed (themselves) from the even way.”

5:78 - “Curses were pronounced on those among the Children of Israel who rejected Faith, by the tongue of David and of Jesus the son of Mary: because they disobeyed and persisted in excesses.”

NB: Here children means descendants of a family or people.

5:79 - “Nor did they (usually) forbid one another the iniquities which they committed: evil indeed were the deeds which they did.”

5:82 - “Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians": because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.   ”

5:83   - “And when they listen to the revelation received by the Messenger, thou wilt see their eyes overflowing with tears, for they recognise the truth: they pray: "Our Lord! we believe; write us down among the witnesses.”

5:84 - "What cause can we have not to believe in Allah and the truth which has come to us, seeing that we long for our Lord to admit us to the company of the righteous?"   

5:85   - “And for this their prayer hath Allah rewarded them with gardens, with rivers flowing underneath,- their eternal home. Such is the recompense of those who do good.”

5:86 - “But those who reject Faith and belie our Signs,- they shall be companions of Hell-fire.”

[r3wt]

But you know what also the Quoran said in a general matter? "And they won't accept you, Neither the Jews nor the Christians until you follow what they believe". Sadly most people are like that.

5:68 - “Say: "O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord." It is the revelation that cometh to thee from thy Lord, that increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. But sorrow thou not over (these) people without Faith.”

5:69 - “Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.”

5:72 - “They do blaspheme who say: "(Allah) is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah,- Allah will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help.”

5:75 - “Christ the son of Mary was no more than an apostle; many were the apostles that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!”

5:76 - “Say: "Will ye worship, besides Allah, something which hath no power either to harm or benefit you? But Allah,- He it is that heareth and knoweth all things."”

5:77 - “Say: "O people of the Book! exceed not in your religion the bounds (of what is proper), trespassing beyond the truth, nor follow the vain desires of people who went wrong in times gone by,- who misled many, and strayed (themselves) from the even way.”

5:78 - “Curses were pronounced on those among the Children of Israel who rejected Faith, by the tongue of David and of Jesus the son of Mary: because they disobeyed and persisted in excesses.”

NB: Here children means descendants of a family or people.

5:79 - “Nor did they (usually) forbid one another the iniquities which they committed: evil indeed were the deeds which they did.”

5:82 - “Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians": because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.   ”

5:83   - “And when they listen to the revelation received by the Messenger, thou wilt see their eyes overflowing with tears, for they recognise the truth: they pray: "Our Lord! we believe; write us down among the witnesses.”

5:84 - "What cause can we have not to believe in Allah and the truth which has come to us, seeing that we long for our Lord to admit us to the company of the righteous?"   

5:85   - “And for this their prayer hath Allah rewarded them with gardens, with rivers flowing underneath,- their eternal home. Such is the recompense of those who do good.”

5:86 - “But those who reject Faith and belie our Signs,- they shall be companions of Hell-fire.”

The similarites of Islam and Christianity

a) Both believes there is one true God.
b) Both believes in doing good works.
c) Both believes in praying, and repentance to sins commited
d) Both teaches to not judge others

The key difference between Islam and Christianity as i see it:

a) Islam believes that Jesus was apostle of God, and not the son of God that he was made to be in the scriptures of the Bible.
b) Christianity believes that Jesus was the son of God, sent to die for our sins, so that we might be redeemed through good works and repentance of sins.

could you perhaps add to these list Muhammad Zakir, about any difference i may have missed, or any errors that i made? I am really enjoying this discussion

[Muhammed Zakir]

The similarites of Islam and Christianity

<a taken>
b) Both believes in doing good works.
c) Both believes in praying, and repentance to sins commited
d) Both teaches to not judge others

True.

The key difference between Islam and Christianity as i see it:

a) Islam believes that Jesus was apostle of God, and not the son of God that he was made to be in the scriptures of the Bible.
b) Christianity believes that Jesus was the son of God, sent to die for our sins, so that we might be redeemed through good works and repentance of sins.

True.

could you perhaps add to these list Muhammad Zakir, about any difference i may have missed, or any errors that i made? I am really enjoying this discussion

Here are some problems:

a) Both believes there is one true God.

Only Islam believes in one true God.

Why isn't Christianity?

#1: “Jesus was the son of God” itself tells there is another God than Jesus and they believe it. If not, they can't beleive Jesus was "son of God".

#2: They take this is as evidence for Jesus as God.

“I and my Father, We are One.” (John 10:30).

In fact, it is out of context.

John 10:22 -  “But it was the Feast of Dedication in Jerusalem and it was winter.”
John 10:23 - “And Yeshua was walking in The Temple on the porch of Solomon.”
John 10:24 - “And the Judeans surrounded him and were saying, "How long will you keep our souls in suspense? If you are The Messiah, tell us plainly."”
John 10:25 - “Yeshua answered and said to them, "I have told you, and you do not believe, and the works that I do in the Name of my Father, they testify of Me."”
John 10:26 - "But you do not believe, because you are not of my sheep, just as I said to you."
John 10:27 - "My sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow Me."
John 10:28 - "And I am giving them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them from my hand."
John 10:29 - "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand."
John 10:30 - "I and my Father, We are One."

If you look at this, you will understand on purpose they are one but it doesn't mean they are one person. Nobody can't snatch from Jesus' hands, nobody can't snatch from God's hand and hence, they are one.

Anyway, if they are still telling "no". Then they will have to believe in 14 Gods. Jesus, God and 12 disciples. Same thing used in different lines:

Romans 12:5 - “So also, we who are many, are one body in The Messiah, and each one of us is a member of the other.”

1 Corinthians 10:17 - “Just as that is one bread, and thus we are all one body, for we all receive from that which is one bread.”

John 17:11 - “From now on, I do not dwell in the world, but these are in the world, and I am coming to join you. Holy Father, keep them in your Name- that Name which you have given me, so that they shall be one, just as we are.”

Maybe more are there but last one I post which is said by Jesus' to disciples:

John 17:20-22 -  "That the all may be made one. Like thou Father art in me, I in thee, that they may be one in us. I in them, they in me, that they may be perfect in one"

See? Same "ONE" is used here. So that means 14(+) Gods?

[r3wt]

The similarites of Islam and Christianity

<a taken>
b) Both believes in doing good works.
c) Both believes in praying, and repentance to sins commited
d) Both teaches to not judge others

True.

The key difference between Islam and Christianity as i see it:

a) Islam believes that Jesus was apostle of God, and not the son of God that he was made to be in the scriptures of the Bible.
b) Christianity believes that Jesus was the son of God, sent to die for our sins, so that we might be redeemed through good works and repentance of sins.

True.

could you perhaps add to these list Muhammad Zakir, about any difference i may have missed, or any errors that i made? I am really enjoying this discussion

Here are some problems:

a) Both believes there is one true God.

Only Islam believes in one true God.

Why isn't Christianity?

#1: “Jesus was the son of God” itself tells there is another God than Jesus and they believe it. If not, they can't beleive Jesus was "son of God".

#2: They take this is as evidence for Jesus as God.

“I and my Father, We are One.” (John 10:30).

In fact, it is out of context.

John 10:22 -  “But it was the Feast of Dedication in Jerusalem and it was winter.”
John 10:23 - “And Yeshua was walking in The Temple on the porch of Solomon.”
John 10:24 - “And the Judeans surrounded him and were saying, "How long will you keep our souls in suspense? If you are The Messiah, tell us plainly."”
John 10:25 - “Yeshua answered and said to them, "I have told you, and you do not believe, and the works that I do in the Name of my Father, they testify of Me."”
John 10:26 - "But you do not believe, because you are not of my sheep, just as I said to you."
John 10:27 - "My sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow Me."
John 10:28 - "And I am giving them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them from my hand."
John 10:29 - "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand."
John 10:30 - "I and my Father, We are One."

If you look at this, you will understand on purpose they are one but it doesn't mean they are one person. Nobody can't snatch from Jesus' hands, nobody can't snatch from God's hand and hence, they are one.

Anyway, if they are still telling "no". Then they will have to believe in 14 Gods. Jesus, God and 12 disciples. Same thing used in different lines:

Romans 12:5 - “So also, we who are many, are one body in The Messiah, and each one of us is a member of the other.”

1 Corinthians 10:17 - “Just as that is one bread, and thus we are all one body, for we all receive from that which is one bread.”

John 17:11 - “From now on, I do not dwell in the world, but these are in the world, and I am coming to join you. Holy Father, keep them in your Name- that Name which you have given me, so that they shall be one, just as we are.”

Maybe more are there but last one I post which is said by Jesus' to disciples:

John 17:20-22 -  "That the all may be made one. Like thou Father art in me, I in thee, that they may be one in us. I in them, they in me, that they may be perfect in one"

See? Same "ONE" is used here. So that means 14(+) Gods?

I don't think it means that so literally. I believe there is one God, as does every Christian I know. This means that we are all one through God. we are brothers in Christ, because he has died for our sins, so that we may be redeemed.

[BADecker]

Jesus' Sermon on the Mount from Matthew...


Chapter 5

¹Now when he saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down. His disciples came to him, ²and he began to teach them, saying:

³“Blessed are the poor in spirit,
     for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
⁴Blessed are those who mourn,
     for they will be comforted.
⁵Blessed are the meek,
     for they will inherit the earth.
⁶Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
     for they will be filled.
⁷Blessed are the merciful,
     for they will be shown mercy.
⁸Blessed are the pure in heart,
     for they will see God.
⁹Blessed are the peacemakers,
     for they will be called sons of God.
¹⁰Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
     for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

¹¹“Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. ¹²Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

¹³“You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men.

¹⁴“You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. ¹⁵Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. ¹⁶In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.

¹⁷“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. ¹⁸I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. ¹⁹Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. ²⁰For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

²¹“You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ ²²But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.

²³“Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, ²⁴leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift.

²⁵“Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still with him on the way, or he may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. ²⁶I tell you the truth, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.

²⁷“You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ ²⁸But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. ²⁹If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. ³⁰And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

³¹“It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’ ³²But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.

³³“Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not break your oath, but keep the oaths you have made to the Lord.’ ³⁴But I tell you, Do not swear at all: either by heaven, for it is God’s throne; ³⁵or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. ³⁶And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. ³⁷Simply let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No’; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.

³⁸“You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ ³⁹But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. ⁴⁰And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. ⁴¹If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. ⁴²Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

⁴³“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ ⁴⁴But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, ⁴⁵that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. ⁴⁶If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? ⁴⁷And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? ⁴⁸Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.


Chapter 6

¹“Be careful not to do your ‘acts of righteousness’ before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

²“So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. ³But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, ⁴so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

⁵“And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. ⁶But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. ⁷And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. ⁸Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

⁹“This, then, is how you should pray:

“‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
¹⁰your kingdom come,
your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
¹¹Give us today our daily bread.
¹²Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
¹³And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.’

¹⁴“For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. ¹⁵But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

¹⁶“When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show men they are fasting. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. ¹⁷But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face, ¹⁸so that it will not be obvious to men that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

¹⁹“Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. ²⁰But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. ²¹For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

²²“The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are good, your whole body will be full of light. ²³But if your eyes are bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!

²⁴“No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.

²⁵“Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? ²⁶Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? ²⁷Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life?

²⁸“And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. ²⁹Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. ³⁰If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? ³¹So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ ³²For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. ³³But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. ³⁴Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.


Chapter 7

¹“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. ²For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

³“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? ⁴How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? ⁵You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. ⁶“Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.

⁷“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. ⁸For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.

⁹“Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? ¹⁰Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? ¹¹If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! ¹²So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

¹³“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. ¹⁴But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

¹⁵“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. ¹⁶By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? ¹⁷Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. ¹⁸A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. ¹⁹Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. ²⁰Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

²¹“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. ²²Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ ²³Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

²⁴“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. ²⁵The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. ²⁶But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. ²⁷The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

²⁸When Jesus had finished saying these things, the crowds were amazed at his teaching, ²⁹because he taught as one who had authority, and not as their teachers of the law.

[Buffer Overflow]

¹⁵“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. ¹⁶By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? ¹⁷Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. ¹⁸A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. ¹⁹Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. ²⁰Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

@BADecker: The rotten fruit growing from your branches is very obvious to anyone that cares to look. I spotted that one a long time ago.