What do you think, is CBDC being developed for the benefit of people or will it be directed against them? After this article, the scales, in my opinion, swung even more towards the total regulation of the financial life of people.
CBDCs have nothing to offer that fiat have not offered. You can send fiat digitally and it is under the control of central banks and the government just like the CBDCs. In function, is there anything added to CBDCs that fiat can not offer? I see nothing new about CBDCs than claiming that it is built using blockchain. In function, digital fiat and CBDCs are the same thing and they totally invade people's privacy. Actually, fiat in cash/physical form is better than CBDC as a form of money. There are limitations but we can send it to anybody we want, it's peer to peer, and transactions made with them could be very private if you choose it to be. In CBDC, it's a centrally programable form of digital currency. It is built and developed to CENSOR YOU and take away your freedom to transact. How can many people not see that it's an anti-Bitcoin-ethos digital currency. But it's good to see that the opinions have changed slightly as more information is taught to us plebs. I started a topic last year about the real nature of CBDC, but most of the replies were uninformed, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5382985.0
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Oh, the irony! Just had a power failure while writing this post, I was going to kill somebody if the ups would have failed and lost it. For those who replied negatively, listen, it's probably just a prototype showing that it could be done. Because why not, right?
Because scaling is a b1tch! What works for a hobby miner it becomes impossible to run when you multiply it by a dozen. 1 S9? I can run it in my bathroom! 20? I will turn off the power on the street, my neighbors will call the police and I won't be able to hear even 10 cops cars over the noise, and probably from the heat my bathtub will melt before they arrive! Same here, you got enough power for 5kw miners, how do you get the cheap or zero cooking oil for more? It's like living on soda cans, you can pick a few hundred each day but can you pick 10 000 a day? Scaling! You're right, but the point of the project is about the diversion of the waste. Instead of having something thrown somewhere, why not burn it and produce something with it? If you're a miner and could have the opportunity to add the concept to your farm, why not? The concept could be more about helping the community around where you do business, than adding more Bitcoin to your profits. Breaking even after costs from such a project could, for me, be considered a success because it diverted waste into something more productive.
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We're talking ONLY about Bitcoin in this topic. Why? Because I, personally/no offense, consider 99% of the projects from the "wider crypto community" to be scams. To be more careful, we need to understand that this other cryptocurrencies inventors, operators or project developers also rely on bitcoin as their solid investment background asset that funds the other projects they developed, so why should a common man like we made a decision to invest with them when we have the direct link to invest with bitcoin and hodl thesame way others are making their profits from it. You're not getting the point. They are scams because most of those, to be political correct let's call them "altcoins", do something but they're not truly what they are claimed to be. IE most of them are not truly decentralized, and their developers know it, but they will never admit it. On a lighter topic, Valkyrie's ETF will be listed under the ticker " BRRR". Hahaha.
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From an investment perspective, OK, I'm curious if anyone knows, when was the first modern ETF for Gold issued? Wikipedia says it was during 2003. ... Zoom out Gold's chart to the maximum and look starting at 2003. Merely my two sats, but believe it will be the same for Bitcoin. It will have one of its greatest price trajectory we have ever seen during the next real bull cycle. Perhaps the same as 2015 - 2017, perhaps more?
Correlation does not imply causation. If I fart now and you see that it starts to rain, would you say that it started to rain because I farted? What? Haha. Your fart has directly nothing to do with the rain, but the billions in new investment going into Bitcoin will definitely have a direct price impact. But just like "correlation does not equal causation", there IS a correlation. Gold's price went up because of the ETF could correlate to Bitcoin's price going up because of the ETF. Actually no, I'm personally NOT for the debate that Bitcoin should have a hard fork to change the supply cap. I believe that part of the protocol is ossified. I'm asking "what is the threshold", a question/topic that's admittedly a difficult issue. To put it in an extreme situation, if 90% of Bitcoin's supply was under the custody of a cartel of 10 asset managers, could it be said that Bitcoin has failed?
To put that in context with this topic, if truly twelve of the twenty largest banks and asset managers truly want to accumulate as much Bitcoin as they possibly can, then $500,000 per Bitcoin is not really that high.
Let's imagine that your assumption is realized. A few funds have taken and concentrated in their hands almost all bitcoins, because they decided that this is a good investment. As a consequence of this decision, bitcoin will practically stop moving, because it makes no sense for them to sell it, this is a long-term investment. In the absence of movement, miners will no longer be interested in it, difficulty will drop, the risk of a 51% attack will increase, trust in bitcoin will decrease, bitcoin will start to drop sharply in price, and investments in bitcoin will depreciate. I'm not asking if it fails, it will surely fail. What I've been asking is what is the threshold? How much of the supply must be held by a cartel of asset managers for us to say that Bitcoin has failed? Because of the ETF, I'm bullish for the price, but I'm not very bullish for the network. If some random dude on the forum managed to see this scenario over a cup of hot drink, then the analytical departments of the funds are also quite capable of doing such analyzes. Accordingly, no funds are interested in buying up and hiding all bitcoins, they are interested in participating in the development of bitcoin, but within the limits of not depreciating the asset in which they invest. If they have large enough investments, they may well take an active part in the circulation of bitcoins.
So I don't think the problem is realizable.
You're saying they will control the supply. OK, that will not be very ideal for the network
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Buy when the market falls deeply, but how much is deep? Buying at the bottom is also risky, as a drop in prices could be a sign that the market is about to crash. It has also adjusted to over 80% in the past. Therefore, you have to determine which price zone is attractive enough to buy. As for where the bottom is, we can't guess. Let's discuss whether to catch the bottom or not and when the bottom is right, at what price will you sell? Do you buy a valuable asset when it falls below the previous price, but is that the final bottom or will the price continue to fall and establish a new low? For asset classes such as stocks, real estate, gold... that have been around for a long time and are popular in the market, bottom fishing is very popular and it has resistances that are hard to break. However, with a new and volatile market like cryptocurrencies, bottom fishing can bring many risks because the market size is not too large, so some sharks can manipulate the market and break resistances. so you have to be very careful when catching the bottom in this market. Should I catch the bottom of altcoins or the bottom of BTC? In my opinion, BTC should only be bottomed because it has been joined by many large organizations, appeared the earliest and is held by many organizations and individuals, so it cannot collapse. As for Altcoins, there are already many coins with a value of 0. Or with coins in the top 20, you can catch the bottom. After successfully catching the bottom, when will you sell them? That is a very difficult question to answer. We're talking ONLY about Bitcoin in this topic. Why? Because I, personally/no offense, consider 99% of the projects from the "wider crypto community" to be scams. OK, for your argument, let's have an experiment. Let's pretend that you are the worst investor in the world and bought Bitcoin during different parts of the crash, and your average price is $30,250 = Today's price. You are HODLing starting NOW. Bookmark this post and visit it again on December 25, 2025. Merry Christmas.
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I still believe that ETF effects on bitcoin price has been greatly exaggerated, although it will definitely have a positive effect on the price.
Do you believe that $500,000 per Bitcoin is merely an exaggeration by 2025 - 2026 considering Bitcoin's trajectory since 2010? In any case when it comes to the next big rise, as I've said before the global economy is the major factor affecting the market for now. The rising inflation was excellent for bitcoin but then recession started and ruined its effects. Now they are trying to reach an equilibrium which is why we don't see rise (or fall) start.
The context of the topic is in how Gold's ETF, during 2003, helped started a strong surge on its price, AND it's trading near its ATH despite going through different economic crashes/crises. It could probably happen for Bitcoin too after ETF approval, no? But the inflation is still rising very fast and its effects on bitcoin price is growing. After all this fast growing national debt[1] due to nonstop money printing is bound to push bitcoin price up. $32.5 trillion US debt, $14.5 trillion Chinese debt, $13.5 trillion Japanese debt, and so on. US alone printed over a trillion in the past couple of months ever since the debt ceiling was raised. In other words 6 digit price is definitely possible in the next major bull run. [1] https://www.usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.htmlLong term, maximum zoom out = YES. 🤝 serjent05, dunfida, and AmoreJaz, I respect your opinions. But my suggestion is, just HODL on to your Bitcoins no matter how small the amount.
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But whether all miners get together and carry out a 51% attack or all validators get together for a 51% attack is basically the same, it is possible with both
Although on the surface it looks the same, it's actually not. Proof Of Stake is consensus where a Cabal of wealthy holders of the coin are in charge, a consensus inside the system. POW is consensus that's unrestrained by the system. From what I understand, POS is no different from traditional consensus made up of Oligarchs. They HODL most of the system's wealth, then therefore control the system.
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It doesn't change the fact that they can put a large percentage of the total supply in their custody, and the question is, "What is the threshold before it becomes truly concerning"?
This is important now and from the very beginning. Once it became apparent that bitcoin had become an important element in the world of finance, it became easy to predict the interest of large corporations. We have been seeing for a long time how bitcoin is being bought up even in view by the thousands and tens of thousands, and how many more secret purchases. But changing the original rules of the supply-limited game could change everything, because bitcoin's conservatism gives it prestige and a level of credibility. Trying to fit in with momentary interests can change everything, and we should not listen to those who are thinking about abandoning the idea of limited issue. Actually no, I'm personally NOT for the debate that Bitcoin should have a hard fork to change the supply cap. I believe that part of the protocol is ossified. I'm asking "what is the threshold", a question/topic that's admittedly a difficult issue. To put it in an extreme situation, if 90% of Bitcoin's supply was under the custody of a cartel of 10 asset managers, could it be said that Bitcoin has failed? To put that in context with this topic, if truly twelve of the twenty largest banks and asset managers truly want to accumulate as much Bitcoin as they possibly can, then $500,000 per Bitcoin is not really that high.
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Altogether they control TRILLIONS of wealth.
It's probably why Bitcoin developer Peter Todd has currently been saying that he's open to the idea of an inflationary cryptocurrency.
There are already a huge number of such cryptocurrencies. There are already so many full-fledged blockchains that it is difficult to count them all. If someone needs inflationary cryptocurrencies, then they can either choose from this set or make their own as much as they want. That's not the point. The point is how Peter Todd's change of opinion from a "limited supply is good" to "inflationary supply is good". We're merely talking about concepts and how theoretically one might be better than the other for the long term sustainability of a cryptocurrency network. As for trillions, they are not going to buy bitcoins with all these trillions. If I go to a candy store with a thousand dollars of capital, it does not mean that I will spend more than a few dollars there. It doesn't change the fact that they can put a large percentage of the total supply in their custody, and the question is, "What is the threshold before it becomes truly concerning"?
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I don't understand why Bitcoin is more decentralized than Ethereum even though you operate a full node with both.
To create the blocks: Bitcoin PoW = miners Ethereum PoS = Validator
With Bitcoin/Ethereum Full Node you can verify the blocks from the miners/validators.
So the only point why Bitcoin is more decentralized than Ethereum is: The Bitcoin Full Node is cheaper than the Ethereum Full Node ?
Or is it the case with Ethereum that you cannot verify the blocks as a full node but only as a validator? So: Bitcoin miners create block / full nodes verify the block Ethereum validator create block / validator also verify the block
You probably need to learn the basics. I also suggest reading the blog made by a person who calls himself "StopAndDecrypt". His writings are technical, but easy enough to read for newbies to learn and understand. Here's one of writings that's relevant for the topics that you're asking about, https://medium.com/@StopAndDecrypt/266c136fc55d#aee4You'll learn what nodes actually are, scaling, and other related topics that all Bitcoiners should know/have a minimum level of understanding.
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OP, probably good to remove BlueWallet and add Mutiny. What is Mutiny? It's the first self-custodial lightning wallet that runs on the web! Control your funds on an open standard that does not depend on Apple or Google app stores. No downloads are needed! We've set out to solve the onboarding problem for Bitcoin no matter who you are, where you live, or what device you are using. And because funds are fully in your control, there's no need to provide identity to a regulated institution. This is what it looks like to make Bitcoin accessible to the 5 billion global internet users with access to a web browser. https://blog.mutinywallet.com/mutiny-wallet-open-beta/I haven't looked closely at all the details on how it actually works but a "self-custodial wallet that runs on the web" means you store your keys in your browser? Probably not a good idea for big amount of Bitcoin. Haha. Although trade-offs taken by their developers does make it easier for new users and does help solve the onboarding problem.
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~snip~ OK, so the Giga-Chads have already opened a debate about the issue.
There's also another shower thought that I brought up before. What if the banksters and institutions like BlackRock hold more than 50% of the Bitcoin in circulation, and increasing. Could be say that Bitcoin as a currency has failed?
Bitcoin will always remain available to ordinary people even in the event that someone owns 50% or more coins, and that means that the idea on which Satoshi designed the whole thing will still exist. As for the question of whether Bitcoin has failed as a currency, it's highly debatable, but I believe we can agree that most people don't perceive it that way. It remains to be seen what effects the possible spot BTC ETF will produce (short-term or long-term), but I personally hope that there will always be a certain percentage of people who will follow Satoshi's vision and will not deviate from the basic ideas - which means that Bitcoin will always represent what it represents today. But how high is the threshold before it truly becomes concerning? More than 80%? 90%? Bitcoin is a limited resource and there's twelve out of twenty of the biggest investment banks and asset managers in the world that wants to gain custody of Bitcoin in some form. Altogether they control TRILLIONS of wealth. It's probably why Bitcoin developer Peter Todd has currently been saying that he's open to the idea of an inflationary cryptocurrency.
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To all those people in the topic who mentioned that inflation is still high in their particular countries/regions, my reply for that I would say wait for two things.
- Aggressive rate hikes that would bring forth Deflation or a Recession
OR
- Aggressive price increases which would bring forth Stagflation, then rate hikes, then a Deflation + Recession AKA Depression
OR
The Cabal responsible for your country's monetary system might be "wizards" and everything will be solved without any serious issues. Haha.
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It isn't realistic in the long term, or for just the next bull cycle? If your answer is a "No" for both, then I can't say that I agree. I believe QE/Brrr-Money-Printing, the possbility of multiple ETFs, and the Market Mania by investors during the next bull market in 2025 will all be enough to make Bitcoin surge to $500,000. If I'm wrong, OK. But it wouldn't be wrong to keep buying the DIP NOW, and HODL. Plus I wouldn't trust Robert Kiyosaki and other book sellers like him. Most of the time, they're merely there to sell their books. There could also be another hash war and if BlackRock and its cartel of ETF issuers have the same proposal in each of their registration statement, they may have some impact of their own on what's to be considered "The Bitcoin". Because they could follow one fork and threaten to dump the other side of the fork. What if the other side they plan to dump is Bitcoin, BTC?
I understand people who think that the spot BTC ETF should have a positive effect on the price, but apparently there are very few who think at all about the far-reaching consequences when it comes to such big predators as BR or Fidelity. I have never read the requirements for the BTC ETFs in detail, but it would be interesting to find out if any other company had a similar text in its conditions, or is this something that BR did first? There is an old post on Reddit written by admin @theymos 4-5 years ago on the subject of BTC ETF, I have quoted it several times on the forum, and somehow it seems to me that it could be the closest to the truth. Agreed, an ETF will almost certainly turn into a disaster at some point. The coins will be stolen, forks will be handled controversially, there will be issues with fungibility (eg. someone will "trace stolen coins" to the ETF's stash), the world will freak out when a bunch of retirees lose their life savings after doing the equivalent of buying BTC at $20k, etc. etc. It'll also get the sort of people who love regulation more into BTC, which is never good.
But investors want it, so it'll probably happen eventually. In particular, I totally condemn trying to get regulators to interfere in the free market more than they already do by blocking any ETF. (When the SEC was last looking into this, I had actually written a long document that I was going to send to them in order to comment on many technical issues with their proposed Bitcoin ETF regulation, but I decided not to send it because I don't want to have even the slightest hand in regulations.)
An ETF probably will increase the price a lot (until the ETF suffers its near-inevitable catastrophe), which has some pros and cons.
Note that an ETF can't affect Bitcoin itself, just the ETF investors and the market. There is no voting of any sort in Bitcoin, so it's not as if holding a lot of BTC gives you any power over Bitcoin, for example. I do agree with Andreas that the creation of a "corpo-Bitcoin" seems probable, perhaps after the ETF loses a ton of BTC and wants to undo it. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5153962.0OK, so the Giga-Chads have already opened a debate about the issue. There's also another shower thought that I brought up before. What if the banksters and institutions like BlackRock hold more than 50% of the Bitcoin in circulation, and increasing. Could be say that Bitcoin as a currency has failed?
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It will no longer be educating newcomers about bitcoin and its awareness without supporting it with documentary movies so that they can gain a thorough understanding of what they need to know more about. I now have a collection of documentaries that I can share with others and store for individuals who might be interested in learning more about bitcoin in the future. thank you all for sharing these documentaries, folks. I don't know how to express my gratitude to you all Documentaries are good, but the community shouldn't stop guiding newbies by providing them the right information, and having them listen to the right people. Anti-Bitcoin trolls, and their sock puppets, are always playing 4D Chess, pretending to be "good" when in fact they spread misinformation. Some good blogs for newbies to start reading are, - https://medium.com/@beautyon_- https://murchandamus.medium.com/- https://notgrubles.medium.com/
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Another good documentary about Bitcoin is "Deep Web: The Rise And Fall of The Silk Road" by Alex Winter, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GAoeo4FnBUIt's not entirely a "Bitcoin documentary", but the story of the Silk Road will always be a part of Bitcoin's history. It's also one of the first places of commerce that started Bitcoin's economic loop, which made it stop being a natural occuring Ponzi.
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Bump. CPI is 3% for the month of June, the lowest inflation since March, 2021.
Plus a new narrative if we can call it that - Apollo's Chief Economist, Torsten Slok, says that because Federal Reserve rate hikes take 12 to 18 months before its real effects could be seen, he theorizes that a recession is a more probable result than a soft landing.
I actually thought we would see reinflation happen for June after Jerome Powell paused for that month. Perhaps now we might see deflation happen earlier than expected if Slok is right?
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Struggling to come up with anything new to say about ETFs, but the first response to your OP covers the main meat. Institutions aren't sitting around waiting to get into Bitcoin, they already did. OTC has always been enough to sate institutional appetites, and even without ETFs, there are numerous ways to bet on Bitcoin without owning any (that satisfies what institutionals want anyway).
They wanted to bet on price, not own any. ETFs may have been the easiest route but the emergence of CME CBoE etc proved that the demand wasn't as the door-pounding ravenous hunger that we were told to expect.
Why should this be any different?
Point taken, I'm just making a simple comparison with Gold when it first had an ETF during 2003 and how it might probably end the same way with Bitcoin. If you didn't do it yet, do max zoom out on Gold's chart and look at the price movement starting in the year 2003. I admit that I might be wrong, but with just 21,000,000 Bitcoins in existence partnered with an increasing money supply, it's hard not to see SIX DIGITS.
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I don't think Powell wishes to break things to bring the inflation down, with him not getting the desired results this present a big dilemma for both the FED and the Government, it is not a good sign knowing fully well that the election is coming, if the economy is not doing well what are they going to use to campaign, but the job of the FED is to make sure they have the monetary system under full control. I have a feeling they are going to raise the interest rate by 0.25%, the last time I checked there is 85% chance of this happening before the next quarter and with rumour of Ukraine-Russia war coming to an end we are likely to inflation coming down and likely doge recession
I believe no one wants to break the economy to bring inflation down, but the same as the other economic events when inflation went high, causing a recession through monetary policy was necessary to curb demand and bring inflation down. It's something like an economic reset to flush the economy of excess money in circulation. Smaller money supply = smaller economy, then it rebuilds and grows again as the Federal Reserve expands the money supply through QE. If Powell refuses to tighten and just leave inflation to be always high, then inflation will cause a recession for him as it slowly exhausts the people's savings until they are left with none. That would be a worse kind of recession because inflation is still high = Stagflation. But it won't end in Stagflation because Powell still needs to curb inflation. If he tightens during a time when people don't have any savings, then that could cause the worse economic condition = Depression. It would he harder to rebuild from such a condition. It's better to cause a recession now while the people still have their savings.
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I respect your opinion and you have a point, but I can't entirely agree. Bitcoin is a blackhole for fiat currencies. If the Cabal behind the Central Banks print more, Bitcoin will absorb more and add to its market value. It's currently right there happening in front of us, and the ETFs will make the trajectory to six digits steeper and faster. Plus wait for QE when there's more liquidity available in the system. It might be "Oh My God It's Christmas" during March of 2025.
So in your opinion the main driving force of btc pump to 6 digit will be QE and ETF will only facilitate the migration of capital. Am I right? I can definitely agree with that. Plus the fact that there's only a limited supply of 21,000,000 Bitcoins in total, making it a scarce asset that's attractive as a long term hedge against inflation. To all those who read my opinions in different topics, you know that I'm cynical towards BlackRock's Bitcoin ETF because of the vague wording used about hard forks in their registration statement.
I found it and read it, and I have to admit that what is written there does not look good at all, because the fact that it is written there may mean that they (BlackRock) actually have the idea to make a fork in the future, and to use their influence and money, of course, to create its centralized version of BTC. There could also be another hash war and if BlackRock and its cartel of ETF issuers have the same proposal in each of their registration statement, they may have some impact of their own on what's to be considered "The Bitcoin". Because they could follow one fork and threaten to dump the other side of the fork. What if the other side they plan to dump is Bitcoin, BTC?
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