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1341  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Why was Ordinal NFTs created? on: April 17, 2023, 01:48:02 PM

I honestly don't know, I'm merely suggesting another "gimmick" after the "gimmick" that you suggested. What I do personally believe is it might have a better chance of getting social consensus than breaking Bitcoin's social contract.


but there has to be a reason people would use a gimmick. no one wants their nft stored on some sidechain. that's why people use ordinals so it can be on the main chain. i think there's more than 1 million ordinals now or coming very soon.  Shocked


Confused. Are we talking about Bitcoin's security provided by the incentivization of miners through block rewards, or Ordinals. Our discussion started with this post of yours, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5446379.msg62070560#msg62070560

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But in breaking the social contract of having Bitcoin's supply limited at 21,000,000, you risk another split within the Bitcoin community.


honestly it wouldn't suprise me if they raised that cap at some point or introduced some tail reward. look at society how they can never get things right and have to always invent new laws and regulations even though society has existed for over 100 years...some of them are in response to the way the world has changed, some not.


They probably will if it's life or death for Bitcoin, but in my opinion, the tail reward paid in another chain that's merge-mined with Bitcoin, IF implemented securely and IF gets social consensus, would be a compromise. It will continue to incentivize the miners without breaking the social contract.
1342  Other / Archival / Re: WasabiWallet.io | Open-source, non-custodial Bitcoin Wallet for desktop on: April 17, 2023, 01:31:56 PM
Are you then saying we should still mix/tumble the outputs?


It depends on what you want to to with those mixed coins in the future. If you never intend to deposit them into a centralized service that might set its own rules on what is clean and dirty or suspicious and not suspicious, don't do it because of the potential of your coins getting confiscated or you having to explain things to them. If you don't even go near CEXs and services that are pro censoring, do it.    


 I believe it would be better not to do anything with your UTXOs, if in case you'll be trading in a centralized exchange later, and if you need your privacy, you can always start using a mixer on the spot.

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Isn't the original problem, "what if a user mixes his/her coins through WasabiWallet's CoinJoin, and the exchange still freezes his/her account because of the mere fact that he/she used a mixer"?


The whole point is that the imaginary green checkmark that blockchain analysis companies give you means absolutely nothing. It's made up nonsense that site A might respect, while sites B to F have completely other standards, and so on.


That would put plebs like us in a confusing situation = Safer not to do anything with your UTXOs until absolutely necessary.
1343  Other / Archival / Re: WasabiWallet.io | Open-source, non-custodial Bitcoin Wallet for desktop on: April 17, 2023, 11:45:41 AM
"Taint" doesn't exist in the blockchain.


I didn't say that taint existed. On the other hand, blockchain analysis companies and centralized exchanges believe it exists. Better yet, they want the users to believe it exists, as an excuse to gather more information on them that they can then sell and share with their partners in government agencies and elsewhere.  

Plus from everyone's personal experience, when have users truly had a problem with "taint" regularly? The forum should be full of threads complaining about it by now.


I don't think that's good enough. I don't want to have that problem even once. Especially if everything worked flawlessly until it suddenly didn't, and my coins got taken by someone who gave themselves the right to do so based on the "proof" they received by a surveillance agency whose standards and methods are unknown. The solution is to abandon centralized exchanges, but not that many people will want to hear that message.  


Are you then saying we should still mix/tumble the outputs? Isn't the original problem, "what if a user mixes his/her coins through WasabiWallet's CoinJoin, and the exchange still freezes his/her account because of the mere fact that he/she used a mixer"?

A normal Bitcoin user who simply wants to sell a small amount of coins in an exchange would probably not need a mixer.
1344  Economy / Economics / Re: using credit card on: April 17, 2023, 11:16:56 AM
i am studying in college, i was really excited to get my first credit card Wink. i thought it will give me a sense of independence and allow me to buy things i could not afford with cash.

though, i quickly learned that credit cards can be a double edged sword. while they can be helpful in building credit, they can also lead to debt and financial trouble if not used responsibly.

at first, i used my credit card reasonably, only for like emergencies or small purchases that i knew i could pay off in full each month. but as time went on, i began using it more and more for larger purchases and impulse buys, without really thinking about how i would pay the balance off.

before i knew it, my credit card balance had  blown up to several thousand dollars, and i was struggling to make the minimum payments each month. the interest charges alone were eating up a significant portion of my income, and i felt like i was going under debt.


OP, NEVER USE YOUR CREDIT CARD FOR "SMALL PURCHASES", ESPECIALLY FOR UNIMPORTANT PURCHASES.

For emergencies yes, and for IMPORTANT large purchases for items/things that you truly need, like a laptop to use to be more productive and earn money, or an item that you can use to start a small business = definitely yes.

Not necessarily. I've been using a credit card since I was 20, in university, with a small credit limit though. I always paid the monthly bill on time and frequently used it for petrol, groceries, or even other purchases because I was receiving a small cashback each time. Now I have a proper credit card with a large limit that I used to buy my motorcycle in interest-free installments, on which I also received cashback. I'm using it almost everywhere to take advantage of it; it's not too much, but it's still better than nothing.

The trick with credit cards is to pay them always on time and to not fall into the trap of installment payments, buying things you don't need or can't afford and going into debt for several years in order to repay them.


Petrol and groceries are things you need, it's definitely OK. I'm talking about those small purchases like trendy clothes that you don't need, or something like sunglasses, just things that we want and don't truly need. Because if you can't afford to pay in cash, don't pay for that on credit. It would be a different situation if the person is rich.
1345  Economy / Economics / Re: using credit card on: April 15, 2023, 01:45:57 PM
i am studying in college, i was really excited to get my first credit card Wink. i thought it will give me a sense of independence and allow me to buy things i could not afford with cash.

though, i quickly learned that credit cards can be a double edged sword. while they can be helpful in building credit, they can also lead to debt and financial trouble if not used responsibly.

at first, i used my credit card reasonably, only for like emergencies or small purchases that i knew i could pay off in full each month. but as time went on, i began using it more and more for larger purchases and impulse buys, without really thinking about how i would pay the balance off.

before i knew it, my credit card balance had  blown up to several thousand dollars, and i was struggling to make the minimum payments each month. the interest charges alone were eating up a significant portion of my income, and i felt like i was going under debt.


OP, NEVER USE YOUR CREDIT CARD FOR "SMALL PURCHASES", ESPECIALLY FOR UNIMPORTANT PURCHASES.

For emergencies yes, and for IMPORTANT large purchases for items/things that you truly need, like a laptop to use to be more productive and earn money, or an item that you can use to start a small business = definitely yes.
1346  Other / Archival / Re: WasabiWallet.io | Open-source, non-custodial Bitcoin Wallet for desktop on: April 15, 2023, 01:12:39 PM
<Snip>
Just to add to what o_e_l_e_o said. Even if you "pass" all their imaginary taint security checks, there is no guarantee that other services and exchanges will consider your bitcoin "equally clean" according to whatever imaginary standards they have.

The following two scenarios can still happen.

A) You want to participate in a Wasabi coinjoin. Chainanalysis gives the green light and considers your coins as clean. You finish the process. After some time you move those coins to a CEX to exchange them for an altcoin or fiat, and there are no problems.

B) You want to participate in a Wasabi coinjoin. Chainanalysis gives the green light and considers your coins as clean. You finish the process. You deposit your "clean" BTC into a CEX, and the exchange freezes your account because you participated in a coinjoin with the Wasabi wallet. Yow now have to explain to them why you did that, the source of your funds, and whatever else they need.

It's a flawed concept where each party has its own standards and definitions of what is allowed and what isn't.   


The solution if you're always transacting with a centralized exchange, just don't mix/tumble your UTXOs. "Taint" doesn't exist in the blockchain. Plus from everyone's personal experience, when have users truly had a problem with "taint" regularly? The forum should be full of threads complaining about it by now.
1347  Economy / Speculation / Re: Buy the DIP, and HODL! on: April 15, 2023, 11:40:25 AM

Of course there are people out there who get too greedy for their own good.. .. and sometimes they can still profit from their efforts, yet historically, we have seen a lot of those kinds of guys waiting around too much for lower prices, not acting and even selling too much too soon.. or like you said the other extreme is buying when the price goes up rather than buying when the price goes down or just buying regularly no matter what is the price.

So there are a lot of weird perspectives, and the main thing seems to be that we try to create systems for ourselves that we have decent confidence are solid, and we cannot necessarily expect that others are going to follow our methods or that they will be able to figure out some kind of a meaningful long term BTC accumulation strategy for themselves.. even if it might vary from our own..


Yes, there are many different perspectives and approaches when it comes to investing and accumulating Bitcoin. Every body has his own goals, risk tolerance and strategies, so what works for one person many not work for another one. it is very important to develop your own plan that fits your circumstances, and stick to it, rather than constantly chasing market trends and copying others.

In my opinion, the most effective strategy in view of long term potential of Bitcoin would be to consistently acquire Bitcoin during significant downtrends, and wait for the bull cycle to realize your profits if you choose to do so.

I agree with you. Those who expect long-term profits from Bitcoin will be successful in Bitcoin investment. I have seen some investors Those who could not trust Bitcoin. They sold their bitcoins with loss due to a little bit of negative news and this incident could be October or November 2020.  But while Bitcoin was slowly trending upward, one of them was thinking that if Bitcoin came back into their buying range, they would immediately hold it. But unfortunately Bitcoin turned bullish since then and it rose to around $69000.
 
They had a good opportunities but they couldn't take it. It was their fault. The market is still in the deep and those who are smart must be holding bitcoins as much as they can.


Because they treat Bitcoin as a, what legacy finance investors would call it, "gambling token". But that kind of perception will not last forever. Bitcoin has the properties to break down political strong holds, it's not merely "P2P Cash" like many people would like you to believe. In fact, Hillary Clinton has warned that Bitcoin could destabilize nations.

 Cool

She's learning.
1348  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Why was Ordinal NFTs created? on: April 15, 2023, 11:19:15 AM
I said that there should be community consensus behind it, or else, it will just be another shitchain with a shitcoin. Plus you said that a "new gimmick" was perhaps required. That's merely another suggestion for a "new gimmick".


do you really think that new gimmick would have a feasible chance at being adopted or having any affect whatsoever? drastic times call for drastic measures. a little side chain probably wouldn't be good enough.


I honestly don't know, I'm merely suggesting another "gimmick" after the "gimmick" that you suggested. What I do personally believe is it might have a better chance of getting social consensus than breaking Bitcoin's social contract.

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But in breaking the social contract of having Bitcoin's supply limited at 21,000,000, you risk another split within the Bitcoin community.


that's the downside of my gimmick but i think one of the groups would end up being the minority chain and quickly forgotten about just like ethereum classic... Shocked


Anyone can choose to ignore the other chain if they want, but miners can't, and some users won't, ignore its value because it's what will be maintaining Bitcoin's security.

Or if just for a "gimmick", it's probably better to build another chain, get community consensus behind it, and have its token merged mined with Bitcoin to help with miner revenue?
You could have the best of both worlds (altcoins/Bitcoin) if you design such a coin as a Bitcoin sidechain, i.e. with the ability to transfer Bitcoin's value on it and with a 2-way-peg with BTC, but with an own mining token.

Sidechains are seeing some development lately and aren't limited anymore to static federation-based chains, see Stacks. The problem of Stacks is that its token is premined, so it's conceptually centralized (not technically).

If we had a "decentralized Stacks" with community consensus, or even better several chains in this manner, we could not only use it for things like Ordinals, but also for smaller payments, which could increase adoption due to smaller fees.

This would mean the benefit for miners would be "doubled": first, they of course get the static block reward of the sidechain's "native" coin, and second, the value proposition of the whole chain ecosystem would be stronger, so it's likely that the mining reward for Bitcoin's main chain, even if it becomes very small, provides enough incentive for safety.


What' your opinion on Drivechains/BIP-300?
1349  Economy / Speculation / Re: MicroStrategy Buys Another 1,045 bitcoins for $29.3m on: April 14, 2023, 03:59:29 PM
Microstrategy has become a way for funds to get exposure to Bitcoin without having to hold it themselves, declare that they’re holding Bitcoin, or create new divisions of their company to handle crypto. They just have to add Microstrategy to their portfolios, and they are. I wonder if a spot ETF would have the major holders sell and buy the ETF instead.

I'm sure some people and smaller entities are holding MSTR as a proxy for bitcoin, but I don't think it would be smart for a company as gigantic as Apple to do so. Unless they buy enough shares to have a good amount of control over MicroStrategy, it adds a lot of unnecessary risk and complications simply because MicroStrategy is still a company with products and not solely a bitcoin-holdings company.


You're right, because truly HODLing Bitcoin in their treasuries and actually believing in Bitcoin's ethos like Chad Saylor requires a small amount of insanity.

 Cool

Although, Apple did include the Bitcoin white-paper hidden in every copy of macOS since 2018.
1350  Other / Archival / Re: WasabiWallet.io | Open-source, non-custodial Bitcoin Wallet for desktop on: April 14, 2023, 03:35:51 PM
I've read most of the posts/replies towards Kruw, and I think that everyone is making too much commotion over nothing but a trade-off taken by a group of developers, who, believes that the best path forward for Wasabi Wallet is to make the centralized coordinator block outputs from nefarious sources. The solution, in my personal opinion is, fork the coordinator and have it accept all outputs from all sources.
1351  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoin Miami 2023 Price Prediction on: April 14, 2023, 08:32:28 AM
Why is it during conferences, a group of whalecumulators always likes to make a joke, and make the price of Bitcoin crash?

I noticed it, especially during the years 2021 and 2022, Bitcoin has made either a big price correction, or a crash during conferences.

We should probably be ready to buy the DIP.
1352  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Don't encourage multiple trading! on: April 14, 2023, 08:13:47 AM
My friend loves opening different trades at a time, most at times is difficult for him to control what's should be. Trading on free chart with multiple opening can be very dangerous. Yesterday he experience unusual hit when bitcoin price drops again, four trades loss at once when the market go against him. Personally I don't advise multiple trade especially when you're not familiar with trade

Multiple trading may be represented like martingale and nothing wrong with that if you are experienced with such to be able to control it and monitor appropriately or use your stop loss intact. Multiple trading is for you to use your money management skills appropriately, lower your leverage, use stop loss and you must have sufficient fund to carry the waves of the market.


We as plebs who are generally under-capitalized should never over-complicate things regarding how we invest in Bitcoin. Plebs should not  treat it like we have seven figures in capital, just keep it simple and buy the DIP and HODL. I could ask myself if I have more profit in buying the DIP and HODLing compared to "trading", and the answer would always be a YES. I believe 90% of plebs would have the same answer.
1353  Economy / Economics / Re: The world continues dumping US dollar (Gold, New World Order, World War III) on: April 14, 2023, 05:39:01 AM
I don't believe that the U.S. Dollar will be "ditched" and removed as a global reserve currency unless we see the MAJORITY of people from the U.S. and other countries wanting to migrate to China, India, or Russia in order to earn their salaries in those countries' salaries.

This is very much true. US dollar for decades has dominated the as global currency and most of trades including oil are settled in USD. Things are changing quite rapidly specially after Ukarine Russia war, as there are sanctions over Russia so there are few countries like China and India who are doing trade with Russia in currencies other then USD. Now India has signed an MoU with 18 counties, we need to wait to see implication of this deal.


The problem with those countries that, signs a Memorandum of Understanding, and "agrees" that they will use each other's currencies for trade, is they hold most of their foreign reserves in the U.S. Dollar. Because they hold most of it in the U.S. Dollar, especially China, they can't simply "ditch" it. Truly deep inside of them, they should not want the United States to fall or else they too shall fall. It will be like a Bitcoin HODLer that wants the network to fail.
1354  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Don't encourage multiple trading! on: April 13, 2023, 12:59:21 PM
My friend loves opening different trades at a time, most at times is difficult for him to control what's should be. Trading on free chart with multiple opening can be very dangerous. Yesterday he experience unusual hit when bitcoin price drops again, four trades loss at once when the market go against him. Personally I don't advise multiple trade especially when you're not familiar with trade


Did your friend trade with leverage? We might be starting to be in a bull market cycle, if he didn't get liquidated, then it's OK. If he is well-capitalized, he will be solvent enough to be still in the trade and get those losses back. But if he simply bought Bitcoin, tell him to "just HODL"!
1355  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Warren Buffett Blasts Bitcoin as 'Gambling Token' as BTC Surges 35% in 30 Days on: April 13, 2023, 12:40:02 PM
How long must the network keep running, how many more blocks must it produce, and how much more FIAT must Bitcoin absorb before the doubters are convinced that it's actually part of the evolution of money? HOW LONG?
1356  Bitcoin / Hardware wallets / Re: Recommendations to store my seed phrase!! on: April 13, 2023, 06:45:06 AM
OP, I have always suggested in digital back-ups generated from an offline computer that will never be online again, then stored in a brand new USB drive that will never be connected to any compter except the offline computer. Encrypt the contents in nested directories with different passwords as you go down.

It's probably paranoid of me, but it's most of my savings during 2018 - 2019 stored in there.

If you insist in writing it down, you should find/make a simple word cipher. It's the same as encryption.
1357  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: NFTs in the Bitcoin blockchain - Ordinal Theory on: April 13, 2023, 04:57:34 AM

BTC to slow & expensive
--> just in tecnical its possible


I don't know if you're really a newbie, or if you're merely trolling. Because if you are truly a newbie, then I believe you haven't fully understood that "speed of confirmation" doesn't matter, it's about settlement assurances. Technically one confirmation in Bitcoin is probably equivalent to more than ten times more than a confirmation from a shitcoin.
1358  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Why was Ordinal NFTs created? on: April 13, 2023, 04:41:29 AM

Or if just for a "gimmick", it's probably better to build another chain, get community consensus behind it, and have its token merged mined with Bitcoin to help with miner revenue?


you mean create another sh**chain that no one cares about or wants to hold in their wallet?


I said that there should be community consensus behind it, or else, it will just be another shitchain with a shitcoin. Plus you said that a "new gimmick" was perhaps required. That's merely another suggestion for a "new gimmick".

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That's better than making Bitcoin inflationary, no?


i'm not sure it is. but who says it would definitely make bitcoin be inflationary anyway? it might not have that much of an effect.


But in breaking the social contract of having Bitcoin's supply limited at 21,000,000, you risk another split within the Bitcoin community.
1359  Economy / Economics / Re: The world continues dumping US dollar (Gold, New World Order, World War III) on: April 12, 2023, 11:41:55 AM
I think the world economy is currently prone to problems, interdependence between countries makes no country able to stand alone, it's time for the country to think about strengthening the agriculture and plantation sector, because agriculture and plantations are a source of life, unfortunately many countries reduce agriculture and switch to industry so food prices continue to rise.


Inter-dependence and cooperation is OK, because no country could produce everything they need within their own borders. But what a country should do is be a net-exporter if it does import products from other countries. The United States is an exception because it can print something that's still in demand in world trade = the U.S. Dollar. It's probably their "greatest export".

 Cool
1360  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Why was Ordinal NFTs created? on: April 12, 2023, 11:31:49 AM

It appears BTC will really struggle without a new gimmick. by 2056.

maybe the new gimmick will be to change to a constant block reward. the block reward going to zero is the problem for miners right? they don't like that. yes it is inflationary possible to *some* degree but if we're being realistic most people that use ethereum don't realize that its block reward doesn't go to 0 you just keep those type of details under the hood away from them and they'll be fine.  Shocked


Or if just for a "gimmick", it's probably better to build another chain, get community consensus behind it, and have its token merged mined with Bitcoin to help with miner revenue?

That's better than making Bitcoin inflationary, no?
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