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1601  Economy / Gambling / Re: Vulnerabilities in gambling websites in past on: October 21, 2022, 12:16:31 AM
You may enjoy what you discover in a short span of time, if you manage to exploit some advantage against the house but yes, it indeed risk our account because once the site finds out what we are doing it will automatically freeze the account and the money that you've got inside your wallet will not be able to be withdrawn.

There's always risk in such actions that we are doing while playing on any website. Being fair is better as you are not worrying about any possibilities that your account will be ban to the site that you are playing.
So what's the point of us exploiting if in the end when we want to withdraw the money, the casino can easily find the violation that we committed and can block our account easily. But if the opposite happened, we could withdraw the money freely without any suspicion from the casino, it might attract many people to try to exploit it. But it's still not a good thing to do because it means we're breaking the rules of the casino.

I hardly believe that there are major vulnerabilities in gambling sites if not for hacking, and this occurs once in a while. With good security features and precautions, the risk is lowered to some reasonable extent though still susceptible, no doubt. But reading here that many vulnerabilities exist in gambling is strange to me. Maybe what you are referring to as vulnerability is a mere approach to gambling that is a weakness of the house. I don't think this would cause an account blockage without payment if the casino is fair. Only that many of them will give silly excuses not to give you your money on detecting you outsmarted them which I don't think is legal on their path too. We often don't know our rights or have the money to fight for it.
Indeed, occasional major vulnerabilities can occur in casinos and maybe the casino security team forgot to do something about those vulnerabilities. And it is such a common thing that can happen in a casino that it will be exploited by other parties to try to exploit it. But as a business owner, I think the casinos could be looking for excuses not to give the money but I think for a reputable casino, it wouldn't be a problem unless we really broke their rules.

It is a question of attitude. Many casinos and many companies or business in general kind of have a blind eye on regards to vulnerabilities. It is a question of having the right professionals or else it may just go unadvertised. A good safety consultancy is expensive, not to mention hiring personnel to deal with it, so unless they are really motivated they will eventually run into trouble.
1602  Economy / Gambling / Re: The History Of Gambling. on: October 21, 2022, 12:13:54 AM
Ancient Indian texts shows that gambling was a part of people's life.

Type of gambling may vary from country to country/people to people.

Gambling habit had started one of the biggest wars of Indian History i.e. Mahaabhaarata.

Here is an article about it if you wants to know more: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2910357/

It's about compulsive gambling, but probably in older times almost all gamblers were gambling addicts. That's because people weren't cultured much in the past, and hence they were greedy and envious beyond measure. They could put at stake their children and wife , they could easily kill out of rage. Only a few people are like that these days. Because of the education today we have higher level of morale than people used to have in the past. And that's why we can be responsible gamblers.

There are many historical references to compulsive habits along the story, some of them affecting kings and emperors. I guess it is in human nature to look for things that thrill and cause good instant gratification. But it is not less true that it is human nature to look for a better version of ourselves, so if anyone fall for compulsions it may be corrected with some help.
1603  Economy / Gambling / Re: To what extent do you chase anonymity while gambling? on: October 21, 2022, 12:11:06 AM
Hey guys.
Choosing crypto in casinos has always also to do with more anonimous gambling.
Anyway I'm curious how important is anonimity to you when you pay & play?

It's important and actually that's one of the reason why I like playing in crypto casinos. My anonymity matters because it can give me less worries while playing.

However, due to regulation wherein many casinos are becoming regulated by the Government, I had to comply on their kyc requirement, but this depends. I will only give my information on casinos that has good reputation and trusted by many gamblers. At this point, I comply in kyc of one specific casino that I trust.

Still the problem remains, you value your anonymity but at the same time most of the law compliant sites will conduct some short of KYC and will have you in files. It is a choice youhave to make - be fully compliant and legal or go dark and then face the risks associated with working with business that may not have accountability. Let's say that their owner can also be anonymous when they want.
1604  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: A Nigerian Man Won $51,000 in Sports Betting With a Bet of Just $1.072 on: October 21, 2022, 12:07:51 AM
LOL, well done for the guy. There is always a chance of fat winnings to be honest. Some of the bettings such as horse racing or some sports in beisball or basketball can potentially assign odds that factor in nearly impossible chances, but there is always a chance, even a diminutive one. I guess this is no different from winning the lottery, except that is perhaps more fun than buying a ticket and just waiting.
1605  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] on: October 19, 2022, 11:48:29 PM
...

The illegal annexation <...>

What is legal annexation?



...

Somehow I should not be surprised that you ask, yet I am.

Legal annexation could potentially be if, after a long period of peace, a referendum with all guarantees, time to put forward arguments against and in favour and abundant international observers is held among the inhabitants of a region a a majority decides that they want to join a different state.

It is much better understood if one thinks of a referendum of independence of which there are a few cases.
1606  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] on: October 19, 2022, 06:21:11 PM
After Putin succeeded in annexing Ukrainian regions and holding a referendum in them, there are reports in the pro-Ukrainian media saying that the Ukrainian army succeeded in retaking large parts of these regions. This was accompanied by silence from the Russian side to comment on the matter.
Is it possible that the news is true or is it only for media consumption as the two parties are accustomed to doing?

The recent events showed a shift in the course of the war, and it seems that what Russia called the military operation to protect minorities in Ukraine, became one of its most important goals to bring down the political regime in Ukraine.

The illegal annexation has been so successful that Adolf Putin has signed a decree to install martial law in several RF oblasts. The Orc army is so successful that a number of oblasts that have border with the illegally occupied territories have now restrictions to travel, movement an massive control.

One would think that Adolf Putin did not take much of large bite, but it seems that even that little illegally taken territory is more than he can hope to defend.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/10/19/putin-martial-law-annexed-ukraine-regions/

Or maybe this is just for consumption.. sure.
1607  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] on: October 19, 2022, 11:47:22 AM
Well you two got me convinced what an ingenious idea, after giving it more thought, why have a general elections in Ukraine at all?

Then it'd be like Russia and that's not a good thing. Instead Ukraine kept having elections even after one of their presidents turned out to be a massive shithead and that's a good thing (the elections, not the shithead).


Oh, well now it's crystal clear, why didn't you just say that earlier...only minor detail left is to define levels of shitheadness. At what level of shitheadness should Article 111 (UA Impeachment) should be enacted (if ever) and at which you can just wipe your ass with the constitution because US cookies showed up on the streets? Yep, sounds like a totally legit democracy.



Well you two got me convinced what an ingenious idea, after giving it more thought, why have a general elections in Ukraine at all?

Then it'd be like Russia and that's not a good thing. Instead Ukraine kept having elections even after one of their presidents turned out to be a massive shithead and that's a good thing (the elections, not the shithead).

By now everyone should have figured that DaRude thinks that you can treat a representative system in the same terms as a despotic one. That the police on a representative regime has the same limits than on a Dictatorship, that elections are always sham, (irrespective of having international observers and guarantees), that the only thing than matters is sheer power and being the bigger guy and accepting slavery to survive... And he believes that somehow this is because he has "more clarity" or his analysis is "more independent".

How are you going to have a realistic political discussion with someone who just does not get the concept of freedom or believes that it does not exist?
...

You got me! Congrats, your sarcasm detector is in top shape, nothing gets past by you! Yep cause when anyone says representative system* everyone automatically thinks of Ukraine!

And very interesting choice of words, you should read up on Realpolitik. But you probably won't like one of it's main proponents Henry Kissinger's position on Ukraine either.

*unless US thinks that our president is a shithead. Then with the help of their cookies, we can totally ignore our constitution and all rule of law, after a coup the most pro-US person is installed in presidents seat

Realpolitik maybe something "new" for you. It is not for me. Now, you have to move on from the XIX century, go past the Menshevik revolution, turn a bit for the existentialism and, by the end of the trail you will find that things are not quite as they used to be with Bismarck and that people in the internet era have better access to the world and can do something about their destinies, even if it takes to fight a Dictator.

Your points would be perfectly valid if made on a forum from around X B.C. to XIX A.C. Now you need an update of your firmware to "history 21.1" operating system.

Who would think that NATO expansion would provoke Russia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A--57cFU5zM

Following you argument, who in their right would try to stop NATO on a battlefield. When you get to war like this is because you have already failed in using soft power.
 
1608  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] on: October 18, 2022, 04:12:46 PM
Well you two got me convinced what an ingenious idea, after giving it more thought, why have a general elections in Ukraine at all?

Then it'd be like Russia and that's not a good thing. Instead Ukraine kept having elections even after one of their presidents turned out to be a massive shithead and that's a good thing (the elections, not the shithead).

By now everyone should have figured that DaRude thinks that you can treat a representative system in the same terms as a despotic one. That the police on a representative regime has the same limits than on a Dictatorship, that elections are always sham, (irrespective of having international observers and guarantees), that the only thing than matters is sheer power and being the bigger guy and accepting slavery to survive... And he believes that somehow this is because he has "more clarity" or his analysis is "more independent".

How are you going to have a realistic political discussion with someone who just does not get the concept of freedom or believes that it does not exist?

^^^ Love that video. Thanks. Ukraine's help from the US and EU will dry up, even if it takes a little while.
...


Good, good... keep waiting for it to dry up. Patience is an important virtue - sometimes you can a whole life waiting for something to happen.
1609  Other / Politics & Society / Re: During the morning missile attack on Ukraine, the Russians hit Samsung Offices on: October 17, 2022, 01:39:20 PM
Quote
The morning did not begin with good news. Ukrainian cities were subjected to massive shelling from the enemy. We hope all our readers are staying safe. Unfortunately, there are victims and destruction. Russian terrorists attacked civilian objects. In particular, in Kyiv, a rocket damaged the building of the 101 Tower office center, which housed Samsung’s office and the company’s R&D center.

As the Director of Consumer Electronics Division at Samsung Electronics Ukraine Andrii Skira reported on his Facebook page, all company employees were outside the office. We also hope that employees of other offices managed to respond to the alarm and get to the shelter.

Any evidence that Russia is a terrorist country is no longer needed. It should not be feared, it should be defeated. Therefore, we remain calm, believe and donate to the Armed Forces, and continue to work.


https://mezha.media/en/2022/10/10/russians-hit-the-office-and-r-d-center-of-samsung-in-kyiv/


....


Could russia target chip makers like samsung as primary military targets in the future. In an effort to pressure them to supply russia with much needed components?

In this instance russian rockets appeared to target samsung office bulidings.

...


Something like that is possible under the "Mafia Logic" that the RF army uses when deciding targets. However I do not think that is likely for two reasons: it does not really have an effect on Samsung's ability to deliver tech components and second, RF missiles tend not the be even remotely accurate. Most likely this is just another of their fuckups. They just shot in the general direction of the population and that is pretty much it.
1610  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Whose Crimea on: October 17, 2022, 01:20:45 PM
Really glad that Crimea took matters into safe hands by democratic vote they accepted to rejoin Russia.
Otherwise it would have been a terrible bloodbath, they are now protected by the sane, instead of the insane.

The West deems it very differently though, through lies.
Not putting one example of it here, not worth what they said about it.  

This is false information. Crimean citizens were not consulted with any observation or guarantee of due process. Until that is done, Crimea is an occupied territory that was annexed illegally by the RF. This is true to the point that soldiers from Wagner group that took power did not even tell who they were actually acting for!

Crimea belongs to people living in Crimea, anything else is medieval.

...

Who do you think has the power to punish Putin? Only God. But Putin is punishing Zelensky, and God will punish Zelensky, too
...

Your imaginary friend does not have any power over anyone, however have no doubt that Adolf Putin stays in power only while the US feels all right about his ability to control the nuclear arsenal. The moment that is in doubt, he will stop existing.

For now Adolf Putin is acting mostly in the interest of the US: getting Europe to owe more to the US, making many countries increase their spend in weapons, enhancing the NATO and bringing members that otherwise would be neutral, letting China know that US and Europe can and will fuckup the economy of any country that oversteps... Why would you get rid of such a guy? He should be in the CIA rooster if he is not.
1611  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] on: October 17, 2022, 10:24:35 AM

IRIS-T as demanded by Zelenskij...('Like NOW you limp-dick Sitzpinkeln German mutherfuckers.')

 - "The cost of one Nasams battery is $23 million with one Amraam missile costs more than $1.2 million"

 - A kilo of good quality coke for NaZiocon acting troupe to split up,  Free from CIA.


Shabah-136:

 - Loitering chainsaw - About $20k ea:
 - Used rebar to fabricate a launch frame:  $0  (plenty available at the former Ukroid defensive fortifications.)


"Pretty simple math, eh Bob?"



This is me trying to decipher you crap. US and EU are sending advance air defence systems since Adolf Putin decided to destroy civil infrastructure unrelated to war (wanton destruction - a war crime). What is the point about speaking about drugs and rebar?

Again wattabouting, cocaine may be very likely be legalised before the turn of the decade. War on drugs is non-sense - as long as you have poor people, there will be no shortage and as long as US guys crazy about blowing up their noses anything smaller than a pea - and cartels are destroying half of Latin America.
1612  Other / Politics & Society / Massive humanitarian disaster about to happen in Somalia - Thousands will starve on: October 17, 2022, 10:18:58 AM
https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/latest/five-facts-about-crisis-somalia

Several regions in Somalia are under alert for an incoming crisis, while some others are already on full blown starvation. The RF war on Ukraine may have a lot to do and this year is not great either for those countries that could have helped. In a few weeks children will start dying and not before long, parents who have lost crops and cattle alike will flood into the camps with nothing to eat and nothing to buy food with.
1613  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] on: October 17, 2022, 10:07:57 AM
There was a shooting at a military base in Belgorod region. I mean the bad kind of shooting, not like a training exercise. Two or three armed individuals (according to RF MOD - "terrorists", according to some other reports - mobilized soldiers) fired at other mobilized soldiers and killed between 10 and 22, injured 15 or more. MOD says the "terrorists" are citizens of CIS, meaning the moribund post-Soviet union involving Russia, Belarus, etc, but in this case they most likely mean a person from Central Asia. If they were among the mobilized, that would explain how an armed foreign (presumably dual) citizen managed to get into a military base. Motive was allegedly religion-based, which works well for Russian propaganda - islamic terrorism and the entire evil world against the righteous Russian dictatorship. They might try to tie it to Ukraine as well.

https://ria.ru/20221015/terakt-1824340408.html

Against this background, the news of a week ago looks very revealing, when human rights activists reported that labor migrants from Central Asian countries were being forced to sign a contract with the Russian Ministry of Defense in various dishonest ways. It seems to be a direct consequence of such a bestial attitude towards migrants.

https://holod.media/2022/10/09/v-rossii-migrantov-iz-czentralnoj-azii-obmanom-zastavlyayut-podpisyvat-voennye-kontrakty/

Try this for starters: Here's Why Sanctions Actually Help Russia - https://russia-insider.com/en/politics/heres-why-sanctions-actually-help-russia/ri41.
Oh, such nonsense has just started to be said since about 2014. It's funny that you gave a link to an article from 2015. I was hoping that you would give me something more weighty, for example, a list of factories and industries that have been opened on the territory of Russia in cooperation with China. Or at least the news that Russia and China now have a visa-free regime, you can stay in the country all year round and freely buy real estate with rubbles. There is no such thing either? Maybe goods from China have become much cheaper for Russians? Unfortunately, no.
But you are partly right. Only with a small note: there is a lot of benefit from sanctions for China. They got a chance to buy Russia's natural resources with almost no profit for Russia.

Short term, the RF can deal with sanctions, but certainly is not benefiting from them. Long term, they cannot do without the tech and the demand from developed countries.

Whatabouting on China, Xi has stated again that they are going to COVID-suicide their economy maintaining the zero tolerance and shutting down cities as required. Perhaps this is not the ideal partner (not that ever was) for a fruitful relationship hu?
1614  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] on: October 15, 2022, 09:33:22 PM
Are you saying that you think the general population of Ukraine doesn't want to join NATO, the EU, embrace western values and instead would prefer to become part of Putins Kleptocracy?  

Apparently all they want is cookies.

But for some inexplicable reason Putin can't give them cookies while (allegedly) being capable of boosting Crimea's economy and the imaginary Russian side of the future split Ukraine.

It's almost as if Ukrainians don't like Russian cookies. I wonder why that is.

I guess they are trying to ask the RF slave army about it, the problem is that orcs think that Ukranians may be angry at the mass graves, the killing of children and the bombing of their schools and hospitals so they are running all the way to Moscow. It must be hard for them to understand that Ukrainians are just running to them as brothers to embrace their Eastern culture and thank Adolf Putin.
1615  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] on: October 14, 2022, 07:20:13 PM
...
Not sure if your assessment could be anymore wrong. If you really want to solve the problem, you need to start at the root cause of the problem, and not at its symptoms. You cannot box by the rules when the other guy is twice your size and doesn't follow them, that's just not how the real world works. US having a full hegemony put in place some terrible precedence, "operations" instead of wars, private military companies, use of nukes, financial and political coercion of other governments, disregarding international laws, sanctioning international court judges, human rights abuses, bombing of other nations infrastructure without UN etc etc etc... And now when (so far) local conflict touches you personally you cannot possibly act surprised when the world doesn't rise up on your calls that NOW suddenly everyone should start to care about the rules and start changing things  Roll Eyes We're back to the ‘For my friends, everything, for my enemies, the law’ logic. Laws either have to be consistent or shouldn't exist. Arbitrary application of laws, double standards and hypocrisy just makes a mockery of the whole system. Biggest players should start following laws before trying to shame others, it's akin of discussing global police abuse and starting with Ukraine while not mentioning police issues in US/Russia/China (cause suchmoon would be yelling whataboutism). It would be obvious to even casual observer that there's agenda at play and Ukraine is being used as a scapegoat.

It's an illusion, Ukraine is not big enough to hold on it's own, so it must submit to one Tzar or the other. Ukraine is already in shackles with A $20 billion programme would be the second largest currently active loan from the IMF after Argentina. All of this is outside of Ukraine's control, and i have nothing but pity for the people, as they're just pawns in this big game. But at the same time when two behemoths are battling it out, I'm very skeptical of any small nation that would willingly make itself into a battlefront proclaiming that it's protecting/fighting for the survival of one of the behemoths. Smart thing would be to stay quiet and watch how it plays out (like almost everyone else is doing). Either Grandiose delusions or people have been brainwashed into doing someone else's bidding by constant propaganda of being "de facto" in NATO and fighting for Poland/NATO/EU/Papua New Guinea/the World. Outcome is already shaping out and this is how it'll be sold to the people:

  • Russia-we got more land out of this and kept our dominance on EU resource markets
  • US-with only few billion spent and minimal losses we set Russia back some X years
  • Europe-WTF just happened!?!
  • Ukraine-Sure with the great decisions by our leadership we lost more of our population and land than was even discussed and agreed to at the beginning during negotiations, but take comfort in knowing that we saved Galapagos islands, we realize that this hypothetical cannot possibly be checked, so population just needs to trust us when we say if we haven't thrown tens? hundreds? of thousands of our soldiers at this, Orcs would've taken over Lviv and Galapagos islands would be next! Hooray to great decisions!
  • China- Grin

Human rights in middle east is shit. But now ask yourself why is it so? Then ask what is the currency in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Oman, Jordan, UAE (Dubai), Bahrain, and Qatar? Surely they are not all pegged and completely reliant to USD couldn't be right?? Now ask yourself why there so much human rights abuse in those countries? Is that cause with total financial control US just can't do anything about it? Or because US doesn't want to do anything about it, all of the money it sends there for oil still stays in it's own financial system anyway, which US can later use to offer bigger cookie to Ukrain/Belarus/Kazakhstan/Taiwan countries surrounding other world powers. And people, people just want to live their lives and are easily influence by a talking head on their TV box offering a bigger cookie until suddenly they find themselves fighting for their lives. Now ask yourself how are your proposals for "changes" will break this cycle and prevent this from happening over and over and over... again, or are these just superficial changes really intended to just prolong the current status quo

Could you please stop wall-texting to basically say nothing or state facts that are contrary to what we are seeing?

Again, you have to concede to anyone that is bigger. False, when someone is bigger and you concede you become a slave. You fight, you look for allies and you let the bastard know that there hell to pay for aggression. That is what you are looking at in Ukraine.

Again, you have been living for too long under despots and thieves - you have lost you will to fight and you think the rest of the people are like you.

Russia diplomatic stance has been fucked. Land? It is still yet to see what do they hold to - bearing in mind that the Donbas is not even a rich region.
Europe has been damaged, now it finally gets the incentive needed to diversify energy and suppliers.
US is super happy of fucking Adolf Putin's army.

My apologies if I do not go through all your wall... it is just repetitive and very biased.
1616  Economy / Gambling / Re: The History Of Gambling. on: October 14, 2022, 07:09:24 PM
~
In the wild western movies which I think also show history where card tables are inside the salon or a whorehouse, people have to surrender thier weapons before going inside. That's kind of a KYC.

Lol, watching too much movie eh..  GrinMost of the created movies is part of the writers imagination there maybe some truth to it but most them are fiction.

Unfortunately, this is especially true with regards to gambling. I love movies and I watch a lot of them, and I can say that in the past 15 years or so, movies have been great in showing and explaining some scientific and historical facts, but never in my entire life I saw a film where gambling experience was depicted realistically. It is always only partly true, and this part is normally very small.

I guess you could even talk of the movie "the big short" as kind of an historical mega-betting, but from Wall Street. For those who have not seen it, it is about a well know hedge-fund manager that, in the moment of the biggest housing bubble known to humankind see further than the rest and decides that it is the moment to take a "short" position (selling without having the asset). I will not spoil the end, but it is a real superbet.
1617  Economy / Gambling / Re: To what extent do you chase anonymity while gambling? on: October 14, 2022, 06:44:16 PM
Not  much in my case, as I have little to hide, however I do respect people who play larger sums and have "that type of money" and look for a degree of privacy. I guess that it has always existed in the "real" world and on-line gambling has just made it easier. Anonymity in general is a nice to have, but it may not be the key to choose a platform for most of the people.
1618  Economy / Gambling / Re: Regulations & Gambling projects on: October 14, 2022, 06:42:18 PM
With regulation you can play in different ways from the business perspective. You may choose to be fully compliant with most jurisdictions in which case you will have extra costs, your clients extra KYC and problems but overall you are quite safe from the legal point, however there is nothing preventing anyone from using a more open jurisdiction, at the risk of having problems with some authorities.
1619  Economy / Gambling / Re: Do you visit the casino while travelling? on: October 14, 2022, 06:40:04 PM
I would advice against visiting a casino while travelling, it is a question of using the travelling time for reflection and relax. I personally like travelling from time to time even if it is not required because it creates a sense of tranquility and movement that, in my case, tends to make me think about how things are going and how could I make them better. Visiting a casino would defeat that purpose.
1620  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Parents And Their Children In Gambling.. on: October 14, 2022, 06:38:14 PM
I am having plan to just hide it from children and yet let them know what is gambling addiction and how to avoid it.

Sorry to say this letting them know about it is just as giving them an information that was not in their mind before more of less rekindling the effects of gambling in them. Well your wife could be free to know and as a man your sources of income, way of living should be let known to your wife depending on how understandable your wife seems to be, back to your children. Its a good thing they don't have the idea at their little stage maybe can be controlled at their maturity stage maybe from 19 years up because at this stage they now knew the risk involve while gambling and can mentally and physically controlled it.
That's a wrong perception, it is always good to keep them prepared than making them right after experiencing hard days. What have been said is right, everything needs to be transparent within the family members, but there is an age limit to educate on certain things. This is good, but the present generation can't be handled in such a way.

Recently in my country a small kid playing some game using his parents smartphone have used $10000+ to purchase equipment and other accessories in the game using the parents credit card. What can be done, if we've taught about this earlier this could've been avoided. Rather than age factor I find it is the way how we explain to them.
#
Hidding thing does not work at all, they need to understand what it is and be exposed to people who had problems with gambling. Not everyone is prone to excessive gambling nor all people respond equally to gambling, in fact most people can have perfect control about most aspects of their lives and even if they get a bit absorbed, most can rein in an take measures to stop.
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