But progressive thinking without God and the Bible fails. But progressive thinking is better if it has God and the Bible. The Voltaire example shows it. History of nations shows it.

As the numbers of copies of the Bible increase, when are you going to realize that there is God-strength in the Bible? If the Bible didn't have strength, it would be done with.

Consider the holy books of religions other than Judaism and Christianity. They are few in number. Why? Because they don't have the strength of God in them. Even the science-religion books don't come near to the strength of the Bible.

Really, the only reason why solid science is as solid as it is, is because God is making it solid. The reason science theories that are against what God says wind up being foolishness, is because they are against what God says.

There have always been people who have rejected God and the Bible. Most of these are dead. But the Bible and God and the people of God live forever.

Oh, oh. You are constantly making your first mistake. And you know it by the mistakes you have made.

Just because you don't want to admit your mistakes, doesn't mean that you haven't made them. Did you ever get a problem wrong in school? Did you ever burn yourself? Did you ever get a little fender bender? What have you done wrong that you weren't expecting to be wrong, but it was wrong?

The point is that many of the things you did wrong, you thought you did right. Before you found out that you were wrong, you thought you were right. Some of them may have even come as a surprise. Some of them, after you were told that you were wrong, you still couldn't believe it, and had to work through it thoroughly before you realized that you were wrong.

Now, in the mistakes you made, you were honestly thinking that you didn't make a mistake until you found out later that you did. You had faith in your abilities, or in your surroundings, or in the integrity of others, or in whatever, that you were acting correctly. Then you found out there was a mistake involved.

Think of all the people who made a driving mistake, if only it was that they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Think of all the airliner crashes where people died... died having faith in all the circumstances of the flight... but the plane crashed and killed them.

Now, think about anything that you do. How do you know that you aren't making a mistake this time? Sure, most of the things that you do work out. But how do you know for a fact that this one thing isn't a mistake? You don't! You don't know FOR A FACT about any of them until later. If you absolutely DID know, you wouldn't make your mistakes.

You are essentially acting in faith in all of it. Experience tells you that things generally run pretty smooth. But experience, also, tells you that you have and will make mistakes. But you don't just stop. You continue because you have faith that if their are mistakes in your life, that somehow you will be able to handle them.

If life happened to be a little less stable than it is, you would be making more mistakes. As it is, you have faith that it will work out.

The statistics of how many Bibles there are worldwide, way beyond any works of science, is quite impressive.

The more we delve into the nature of science, the more we praise God that He did it this way.

There have always been people who didn't want to acknowledge God. God will give them what they asked for in the Judgement... no God = Destruction, but...

The death and resurrection of Jesus was the thing that took all the sins of all people for all time. No more sin to punished for. Only gifts according to the faith of the people.

In the Resurrection, everybody will be given a glorified body similar to the Body Jesus received after He arose from the dead. Even the unbelievers will get a glorified body that cannot die.

The believers will get life-with-God that they were asking for - Heaven. The unbelievers will get life-away-from-God that they were asking for - Hell. The everlasting bodies of all of them will keep them alive forever. Even Hell's worst destructive forces will not be able to destroy the life of the unbelievers. But it will be exactly the opposite of fun... staying alive without God.

While faith is not the way to determine what is true or false, faith is at the base of the determination. Simply what I mean is, even if you do an experiment the same way 10,000 times, and you get the same result all 10,000 of those times, there is no way that you know for a fact that 10,001 won't be different. Until you do 10,001, there is a tiny nagging doubt, one that you may have hidden under loads of experience, that this time it might be different.

Science alleviates this idea of faith as much as they can by stating that the experiment is an absolute fact if it happens the same way 10 to the 40th power number of times (or thereabout), without being different once.

Regarding the existence of God, there is no faith. There is knowledge. The knowledge is based on going beyond 10 to the 40th power regarding some things that are literally impossible without God. It is based on the Machine-Maker of the universe; we have no other evidence of machines coming into existence but by makers. And there is the complexity of what exists... the knowledge that the more complex the machine, the more capable the maker. If FSM can be shown to have been able to make the machine universe, then the FSM might be God. The point is that God exists.

Faith regarding God is faith in what God says. God says things in different ways. The quality of us having all kinds of things for life shows that God is capable. It suggests that He will continue to be capable just in the fact that we see the needs of life taken care of all over the place. But because we see problems in life, the good things become faith things. But this isn't God speaking by words.

When God speaks by words via holy books, this is another way we have faith. We see if what God says in the holy books matches what exists. It's a form of faith in God if we believe Him... even if the belief is only based on His past truthfulness.

When God speaks to any of us directly, we might have faith in Him by believing what He says directly to us. The rest of us shouldn't place trust in what any person says he heard from God, directly, except if there is evidence that what the hearer says He heard from God is the truth. And it should be checked out to see if it isn't something that anybody could have discerned had they looked. It has to have the quality of being unique to the God-hearer.

The point is, God isn't believed to exist. He is known to exist. The believing (faith) part is believing what God says.

I KNEW you would come around to acknowledging religion sooner or later.

You carry your mythological nonsense with you wherever you go... that God doesn't exist.

(Btw, you didn't place a question mark at the end of your question.)

LOL!

Scientists are challenged all the time. What do you think a change in their scientific theory is? Have you forgotten that the only fact in a science theory is that it is a theory? The object of the theory isn't a fact. If it were, the theory wouldn't be a theory.

The only reason you understand that you know facts rather than having faith in them, is because I have mentioned it over and over in this forum.

Bravo! Not only did you recognize that you asked a question, but you even repeated the question itself. Excellent!

Or did you only copy and paste it from somewhere else. However, for you that is still very good.

Your faith is in the other scientists. However, if you have faith that a 3' stick will remain 3' wherever in the world you measure it, you are having faith in God that He is holding physics in place. So, your faith isn't in the facts. It is in God that He will maintain the facts as facts.

We are finding that standard vaccines are producing more of the disease that they are supposed to be inoculating against. check all the posts in the vaccine threads to find the links to the evidence and proof. So, I guess being inoculated to science means that I have more of it.

You seem to. You don't understand how evolution could exist, yet you have faith that it does.

Evolution is a hoax.

You do realize that real characters, well, are not fictional, don't you?

My point exactly! You have faith in scientists and the media, that what they tell you is the truth, and that they discovered the truth by scientific methods. Do you have proof that they are telling you the truth? Did you watch them do their scientific methods. If you only read about it in their white papers, did you really understand what you were reading? If you understood it, did you do the tests to make sure that they were right? Or did you just believe it out of faith?

The Bible has all kinds of morality written into it. And it has punishment written in, for those who don't keep the morality. And it is the record of what happened to those who didn't keep the morality and what happened to those who did. And it shows how God both punishes those who disobey, and rewards those who obey, and how those who are repentant find Jesus-salvation.

The point is, people have faith all over the place in this life. Nothing that anyone does is ever done without at least a little bit of faith.

God is shown to exist in the machinery of the universe. Machines have makers. The highest and best morality is to honor and respect God since we have been made by Him. Since we live by faith, we have religion. The religion of honoring God is the best morality that we can have.

So, have you done all the experiments that you believe in? Or are you only trusting that others aren't lying to you? Be moral and tell us the truth, now.

^^ More subtle deception from one of Satan's followers, who probably doesn't even know that he is following Satan.

So, now everybody can see your churning weakness that anyone has to put up with just to respond to you.

First you answer the question, even bolding it so that we all can see the question you are answering. Then you say it wasn't the question. If it wasn't the question, why did you bold it and answer it? No wonder you don't understand what I am posting.

Don't worry. You have friends, here. I am calling out to all Christians in the forum to pray for af_newbie.

Btw, you still haven't shown any proof for evolution. But you wouldn't understand it if you had any. After all, you can't even explain the evidence in your own words.

Evolution remains a hoax.

Wow! Now you are starting to act like Satan. Look at what Alan Watts says in his book, Myth and Ritual in Christianity, about the way that real devils really act. Of course, you really aren't quite clever enough for this, yet. But keep practicing:
Alan Watts, himself, was only a novice in Deception (as he calls it). Rather, he was one of the more out-in-the open deceptionists.

Keep on practicing. Soon you will be able to join the Church, just to make money, and destroy it from the inside.

We're all praying that you wake up and come to salvation, of course.

So said^^ by the science-religion guy who doesn't even realize that atheism is only his religion.

    

...

But, try thinking a little more. Here's some more thoughts.

1. The book compilation had other writings considered. These other writings don't change the book regarding the way we are talking. In addition, the compilation was done to clarify what was the truth. It was done by comparing the basics of the Hebrew canon with the Books that would go into the New Testament, and with the Apocrypha. Books that added things that weren't supported by the canon were left out. Books that had items that weren't verified by other N.T. books were left out of the N.T.  The process was meticulously done.

2. The universe is believed to have started about 6,000 years ago by many. The fact that others believe it to have started billions of years ago, shows that they have a religious belief. Pick your religion.

3. If I have the power to create something on the scale of the universe, how in the world can something as tiny as you second guess me or what I have in mind? My thoughts would be way beyond yours... to say nothing about the fact that you can't even read the minds of your fellow humans.

4. God says in the writings he authorized, that His focus in creation was making and supporting mankind.

5. The Bible talks about 13 classes of angels. Some of them take care of the forces in the whole of outer space - the universe. --- Look in the Revelation for the part about the Dragon's tail sweeping a third of the stars out of the sky. The standard understanding is that these stars were angels. Satan, the Dragon, the Devil, whose name means Destroyer (in Revelation), thought that taking a third of the supporting angels out of the universe, would certainly destroy the universe. What He found out is that the whole universe is upheld by God... through the angels, or not through them.

6. The idea of humans going to space is my idea. But consider the context of it. If people had remained perfect, and never died, it wouldn't really take long for standing room only to be achieved on Earth... and faster than ever considering how healthy the earth was back then.

But thanks for giving me the chance to explain some of these things.

Have you examined all the principles and application of all - or at least most - science? Or do you have faith in scientists and the media, that they are telling you the truth?