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1001  Economy / Speculation / Re: Did Karpeles and his accomplices steal 850,000 coins? on: February 28, 2014, 11:08:16 AM
Probably. Even if it is just gross incompetence, it would be on such a scale that jail is justifiable.

I think the opposite. They were nicked in 2011, when worth a lot less but when the crime seemed a lot easier to cover up.
1002  Economy / Speculation / Re: Did Karpeles and his accomplices steal 850,000 coins? on: February 28, 2014, 11:07:32 AM
I think it could be true just based on the following:

If the theory is correct then it is quite possible the coins were already stolen in 2011. This was a time when it may have seemed a remote possibility that Bitcoin would go beyond a few dollars a coin. So insiders thought they would get a few million dollars. It was also a time when the idea of worldwide regulation, real government interest, etc. might also have seemed unlikely. In fact if anything it might have seemed like Bitcoin did not have that much longer to go. So why not steal them? It was the real Wild West, it could easily be blamed on hackers, and it was a relatively small amount of money.

Any insider considering stealing 750k Bitcoins today would have to think a lot harder about it!
1003  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Anyone who had btc on gox since 2011 could be affected on: February 28, 2014, 11:00:46 AM
Many on here think that only the people who currently have money or bitcoin with gox will be directly affected by a gox bankruptcy.  That may not be the case.  According to Jesse Powell, the CEO of Kraken, 800,000 bitcoin were stolen in June 2011.  Instead of informing the public, gox decided to essentially run a ponzi scheme from that date forward through which it attempted to reach solvency by generating fees through transactions and possible arbitrage.  

The bankruptcy trustee could determine that everything that occurred since that June 2011 date should be unwound, and that anyone who withdrew money or bitcoin from that will need to return those net profits to bankruptcy estate.  

Don't believe me?  Do you think the people who were smart enough, or lucky enough, to pull money out of their Bernie Madoff accounts got to keep those profits?  No, the bankruptcy trustee sued every single one of those people and required them to put back into the bankruptcy estate all of their net profits that they made.  And it meant nothing that they were completely unaware of the fraud.    

So if you are one of those people who had money or bitcoin on gox and made a profit on the transaction, which is now sitting in your wallet or your bank account, don't be too sure you want gox to die.  

It might just turn out that what everyone has been proclaiming to be the final MEGA-Goxxing is just a blip on the road to the REAL MEGA-GOXXING!

I just knew Gox had a last trick up its sleeve!! Cheesy
1004  Economy / Speculation / Re: Mt. Gox has filed for bankruptcy protection on: February 28, 2014, 10:56:21 AM
I've only been around since 5 December and I already feel like I've been through the wars.  

After a tough war there is usually a long, prosperous peace.

choo choo
1005  Bitcoin / Press / Re: *DJ Mt. Gox Lawyer: Filed For Bankruptcy Protection Y6.5B Debt - updated on: February 28, 2014, 10:40:44 AM
I think it is just a statement

*MT. GOX CEO MARK KARPELES APOLOGIZES AFTER FIRM'S BANKRUPTCY

Karpeles is now speaking in Bankruptcy court

Thanks for your real-time updates!!
1006  Bitcoin / Press / Re: *DJ Mt. Gox Lawyer: Filed For Bankruptcy Protection Y6.5B Debt - updated on: February 28, 2014, 10:26:41 AM
Is this simply a statement or are any questions being asked?
1007  Bitcoin / Press / Re: *DJ Mt. Gox Lawyer: Filed For Bankruptcy Protection Y6.5B Debt - updated on: February 28, 2014, 10:12:20 AM
We might have to clarify what "outstanding debt" actually means, and if it translates over to "total liabilities" or a more accurate description of the discrepancy on customer holdings there.

If true, this is drastically lower than expected, which almost makes me think the 750k BTC number was orchestrated to be ridiculously high.  /tinfoil hat

Remember the crisis document said 50% of the bailout funds needed had been acquired... Perhaps that's what this means?
1008  Bitcoin / Press / Re: *DJ Mt. Gox Lawyer: Filed For Bankruptcy Protection Y6.5B Debt on: February 28, 2014, 09:49:15 AM
*DJ Mt. Gox Lawyer: Accepted By Tokyo District Court
(MORE TO FOLLOW) Dow Jones Newswires
February 28, 2014 04:34 ET (09:34 GMT)
Copyright (c) 2014 Dow Jones & Company, Inc.- - 04 34 AM EST 02-28-14

*DJ Mt. Gox Lawyer: Outstanding Debt Y6.5B

On Bloomberg, when the whole story is available I will edit

Thanks! Keep us informed!  Smiley
1009  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Anyone that has REAL information on what's happening in gox, contact me. REWARD on: February 28, 2014, 07:31:51 AM
If anyone has real information on what's happening with Mt. Gox, please contact me. Any information that leads to the recovery of personal and client funds will receive a percentage.

try to get in touch with two bit idiot? he might bite if you're offering a huge reward.

That guy's been strung along by people trying to cover their tracks...

...IMO whoever was buying the most cheap coins from GOX
1010  Economy / Service Discussion / Roger Ver, bless him, tells that Gox is going bankrupt on: February 27, 2014, 11:38:38 PM
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1z4olv/rogerver_states_on_irc_that_mt_gox_filing_for/
1011  Other / Off-topic / Western intelligence networks strategize to place “trolls” on the Internet on: February 27, 2014, 10:45:03 PM
http://www.wnd.com/2014/02/govt-handbook-for-internet-trolls-uncovered/

OK. Who's from GCHQ here? Fonzie?

Seriously though...
1012  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: WHO WANTS TO SUE Mt.GOX / MARK KARPELES ? on: February 27, 2014, 07:46:47 PM
Also contacted

Selachii LLP
131C Kensington Church Street
Notting Hill
London
W8 7LP

On a  rumour that they are currently building a case against MT.Gox if nothing else we can at least find out if that's true.

I contacted them as well. They said they are doing research and will get back to me next week.
1013  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Roger Ver : Gox "worst-run business in the history of the world". on: February 27, 2014, 03:06:01 PM
You said you did the video purely as a favor to Mt Gox, kindly tell us who at Mt Gox asked you to do the video?
Either Mark or Gonzague.

Quote
Who wrote the words that you read in that video?
I wrote it all myself.

Quote
What was your relationship with Mt Gox, and it's CEO at the time of the first video?

Nothing other than a customer of Mtgox.  

Quote
You specifically said: "I made a video stating that their fiat withdrawal problems were not being caused by a lack of liquidity. I made no claims regarding their solvency."  You do realize that, "liquidity' and "solvency" are symbiotic, and that any statement by you about Mt Gox at that sensitive time would be construed as an endorsement?
Having liquidity is no guarantee of solvency.  In hindsight, we now know that Mtgox has likely been insolvent for years.
I'm sorry you have a hard time understanding the difference.

Quote
Why would you endorse Mt Gox at that troubled time in their development?  
Because as stated in the video, I am sure the fiat withdrawal delays at that time were not caused by a lack of liquidity.
In hindsight,  I feel terrible about having made the video.  I was deceived by Mtgox,  and my video led to who knows how many more people trusting Mtgox, and losing money because of it.  If I could go back in time, I would never have made the video.

Quote
In this video you said: "This issue was caused by poor programming skills and a total lack of book keeping on the part of Mtgox", is it true that Mt Gox allowed you to see their books, some of their financial records?
Isn't it clear to anyone who is paying attention?  Mtgox lost everyones bitcoins and didn't notice until 99% of them were gone.

Quote
What did you know about their programming and bookkeeping and when did you know it?
I found out this week as well.

Quote
Was it before you invested the "... life changing amount of bitcoins stuck in Mtgox" or just before making this new video.
I have had about 24,000 BTC from Bitcoinica stuck in Mtgox for over a year.  Mark refused to turn over those funds to the liquidator.  Now any chance I had of getting those back are gone too.  That likely makes me one of the people who lost the most money out of everyone involved with this MtGox nightmare.

Quote
BTW: did you sign the petition to remove MT Gox CEO from the btc foundation.
I'm the one who directly asked Mark to step down.  

Quote
In what ways if any did you support the protesters at Mt Gox?  
I wasn't in Tokyo for most of the protest,  but the one day I was,  I tried to bring them hot tea.
https://twitter.com/rogerkver/status/436663439214120960  

Quote
With answers to those questions we could get a glimpse of that picture you are talking about.

The picture I am talking about is Bitcoin,  not my interactions with Mtgox.







[doctor just before giving you a shot] "... you may feel some pressure but it will be over shortly ..."


Roger, inasmuch as you may believe it was “purely as a favor” please consider the following.  at the time of the first video your 24K btc being held by Mt Gox (MG) was literally under arrest -- not just in their care, but completely alienated from your control.   As such, it stands to reason that your visit that day was primarily concerning those funds, and probably not to make another 24K btc deposit.   

That video represented two things:

1) it highlighted why inherent conflicts of interest should be disclosed,
2) the extent you were willing to compromise your integrity,

The reason for MG visit that day was about your 24K btc not to do a PSA for MG.  It is very likely that the full extent of your holding in MG was limited to only what you could not control.  You knew MG had problems, you probably would not have gone there if you were comfortable with how they cared for your money, likewise you knew the general public was not comfortable with how MG cared for their money, however you willingly choose to overtly allay those concerns with the MG endorsement video.  Had you disclosed the reason for being there in the first place it would have shown the viewer a more accurate picture of MG. 

I believe you thought the 1st video would help in your effort to wrangle your 24K btc from MG, in so doing you were willing to needlessly place the public's interest in harms way to get your money.  Turns out you sold your soul, and stabbed the public in the back for nothing, and with that reality came video #2 -- the 'I said liquidity not solvency' video.

The semantic denotative difference between liquidity and solvency is irrelevant if the order is: "don't pay".  For example, if your house is on fire, you are told 4 fire trucks are on their way.  Upon arrival of the 1st truck the driver says: “sorry but I’m not liquid and I’m insolvent”.  You're baffled and wonder 'wtf dude', but you see the 2nd truck arriving.  Its driver says: “sorry, I’m not liquid although I am solvent”.  As pissed as you are you know your house is more important than your 'pisstivity' besides the next truck has arrived. Driver 3 says: “sorry, although I am liquid I’m insolvent”, you are livid, totally frustrated and your house is 50% consumed, that's when the 4th truck arrives, it is both liquid and solvent, yet none of the drivers act to put out the fire ...

As you can see from the above analogy it doesn't matter what they say if the intent is not to put out your fire, furthermore you can also see how your reasonable expectations was exploited and abused when they arrived to do nothing, serving only to distract you from considering other home saving opportunities.

Had you known their intent you would not have called them in the first place.

Roger, your endorsement video was a distraction that facilitated the ongoing abuse of the public's trust by Mt Gox, the fact that you were in an adversarial relationship with MG at that time but choose not to disclose that material fact at any point gives me great pause. 

If the US Attorney's office sees your participation as 'aiding and abetting' MG's effort to defraud the public you will have a lot more 'splaning to do.

[doctor] ok, that might swell and perhaps bleed a little but you'll be ok.


personally, I don't think either video had enough of a market impact to do any material damage, so don't worry about it



Gotta bump this one!
1014  Economy / Speculation / Re: Predict the next Gox revelation here and win respect from fellow forum members on: February 27, 2014, 03:02:18 PM
It's sad to see hope dead cat bounce all the way down.

First it's the (fairly reasonable to begin with) hope that withdrawals will start again, albeit limited.

Then it's the hope (less reasonable) that Gox is being bought out.

Now it's the hope that 750k Bitcoin is in cold storage with some kind of key problem.

I'm feeling every stage.  Sad


What makes you think the market is all about gox now? Thare are so many bullish things going on right now that have nothing to do with mtgox - mtgox is just the flavor of the month right now. I think this sudden immense support on bitstamp is coming from investors who are investing in, you know... bitcoin. Not mtgoxcoin.

Pardon? What do you mean "What makes you think the market is all about gox now?" ?

I'm talking about Gox. This thread is about Gox.

What makes you think that a thread named "Predict the next Gox revelation here" is all about "bullish things going on right now that have nothing to do with mtgox" ?

Post in the right threads.
1015  Economy / Speculation / Re: Do you really believe gox has lost 740,000 BTC and has only 2,000 left? on: February 27, 2014, 02:32:58 PM

The only reasonable explanation is that on Feb 20th or later they discovered that they can not reach their BTC and then they probably wrote the famous draft of what to do if the coins are lost forever. It also fits the "temporary unenviable" argument.  


You don't need a statement from Mark on this point.

I can tell you with 100% assurance that the situation is now officially unenviableCheesy

Sorry, facile I know...
1016  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: MtGox.regulation - not necessarily but the enforcement of contracts - definitely on: February 27, 2014, 02:22:31 PM
The Bitcoin community is missing an opportunity with this whole MtGox fiasco.  Rather than letting the media spin us as hypocrites that want regulation now that we have suffered a loss, we need to use the opportunity to point out that what MtGox users had was an enforceable contract (money for services and the expectation of security).

This is our opportunity to point that money has been declared illegal (which is unconstitutional) and how much government fiat has added to this crisis.  Every user of MtGox went through rigorous government financial regulation to verify their account and had tolerated banking delays as the Federal Reserve scrutinized every fiat transaction in and out of MtGox.

This should entitle MtGox users not to any bailouts but to the investigative resources of the regulators.  The idea that they should get away with saying they are not responsible to investigate a crime simply because it did not involve the use of their illegal World Bank mobster Ducets is a specious argument and we need to shed light on this injustice.

Every Bitcoin transaction is traceable so the investigators ought to get busy investigating who stole our "money" and it should be returned to the rightful owners.  Having that be easier to do with BTC should be excellent PR for Bitcoin.  Afterall, what happens if you pay for a stolen ring at the local pawn shop with World Bank Mobster Ducest?

This doesn't have to involve the reversal of all those transactions but could be used to identify those responsible and those that empowered them for restitution.


I would like to see the Bitcoin Foundation put a team to work tracing Gox wallets with a view to aiding further investigations.
1017  Economy / Exchanges / Re: MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering] on: February 27, 2014, 02:16:52 PM

Are you nuts? I dont give a shit about your "sturle" and your private pussy vendetta you folks in here are producing.


Pussy vendetta? Some long-time members of this community willingly deceived newcomers.

Thats not the point. Plz read what i was responding at.

There is no reason why the average customer at MtGox did some "moral haszard behavior" and therefore deserves to loose his funds.

Its obv another story if somebody bought Goxcoins at a later state in the story and knew the risk he was taking.

In my opinion anyone with funds on Gox knew the risks he was taking. I'll state the obvious again: the writing was on the wall.

In my opinion none of the customers with funds on Gox deserves to loose all his funds. Why should that be so? They didnt stole those funds, did they? Neither did they harm anyone just by depositing BTCs or FIAT at the exchange. Its their money and the obv deserve to get them back.





I certainly agree with that but I don't see how those who bought "goxBTC" on bitcoinbuilder deserve less than those who just had their funds on Gox.

Everybody knew the risks.

Being one of those who played with Bitcoinbuilder over the last days (which btw I believe was a great idea and not some part of the "plan") I think I am among the most stupid. Many who have their funds in Gox were have been in the process of trying to get them out for weeks or months.
1018  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: MTGOX.com working again!! on: February 27, 2014, 12:34:05 PM
One of them tries to download some code on me.

Hacked again Gox?
1019  Economy / Speculation / Re: Predict the next Gox revelation here and win respect from fellow forum members on: February 27, 2014, 12:32:22 PM
It's sad to see hope dead cat bounce all the way down.

First it's the (fairly reasonable to begin with) hope that withdrawals will start again, albeit limited.

Then it's the hope (less reasonable) that Gox is being bought out.

Now it's the hope that 750k Bitcoin is in cold storage with some kind of key problem.

I'm feeling every stage.  Sad

1020  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: So what are all the Bitcoin addresses of Mtgox on: February 27, 2014, 12:06:03 PM
some reading for those with lost coin

http://www.mofo.com/

Morrison | Foerster

Imagine lawyers who are as interested in what you do as you are. Who understand the value of your new technology or new product or new transaction. Who are prepared to work with you to create it, protect it and maximize your opportunity to derive value from it. Who'll help you to bring it to fruition, or finance it, or bring it to market, or sell it. And, who are prepared to zealously defend it – in or out of court. Imagine lawyers with imagination.

We are Morrison & Foerster — a global firm of exceptional credentials. With more than 1,000 lawyers in 17 offices in key technology and financial centers in the United States, Europe and Asia, our clients include some of the largest financial institutions, investment banks, and Fortune 100, technology and life science companies. We’ve been included on The American Lawyer’s A-List for 10 straight years, and Chambers Global named MoFo its 2013 USA Law Firm of the Year. Our lawyers are committed to achieving innovative and business-minded results for our clients, while preserving the differences that make us stronger.

http://www.mofo.com/files/Uploads/Images/120831-PLC-Japan.pdf

Lawyers website named mofo, that's like quintessence of irony xD
I actually wonder if they even know what bitcoin is and that there is certain difference between financial law and law related to meta-currency.

I guess it really is time to CHOO CHOO MOFO!!! xD
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