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Thinking about it carefully I actually do think that they have lost everything. I don't know how exactly - probably via malleability hacks - but think about this:
A few weeks ago Mark Karpeles came out all guns blazing against Bitcoin, saying that some funds might have been lost due to malleability.
But he had been warned about malleability a long time ago.
If your company, holding hundreds of thousands of Bitcoin, had lost a few thousand Bitcoin via a trick you had been warned of, would you come out publicly like MK did, knowing there would be an immediate backlash and you would be ridiculed for not having fixed the problem despite warnings? I wouldn't - I would try to get the issue fixed quietly and take the loss.
But if you realised that everything was gone, then what?
At this point you would have to think "exit strategy". And so, to make it a case of force majeur from the outset, you make a bold public claim blaming Bitcoin, regardless of the fact that you know you will face ridicule. In this way you are starting off with a clear position - a position you will not go back on: that it was not your fault and that this is written into your terms and conditions. This is an important claim as it is your defence strategy for all future lawsuits brought against you by customers who have lost their funds.
It now seems obvious why MK would make such a strong public statement, very out of character and actually bordering on angry and panicked, several weeks ago.
He already knew then that everything was gone.
My opinion only but...
Shit.
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It seems like everyone is running round like like lunatics declaring MtGox is insolvent and dead without any solid proof. I am not saying this may not the case but lets at least wait for a solid bit of evidence - either an announcement from MtGox or proof that the document going around claiming MtGox lost 700,000+ BTC is real. Otherwise we are shooting ourselves in the foot. The media is and will have a field day on these claims and if later they prove to be false the short term damage will have already been done.
The document in question does not look at all professional to me and no one really seems to know where it really came from. What if it was just created by someone wanting cheap bitcoin? I would say that they have done an exceptional job of spreading FUD if that was the case.
Its amazing how many forum members come out of the woodwork claiming this is the end of Bitcoin, announcing class action lawsuits against MtGox, sending MK death threats etc. None of this is helping the situation.
STOP the FUD.
In my opinion Bitcoin is here to stay with or without MtGox!! Lets just get on with it.
The sad thing is, I get the feeling we are not going to get proper closure. This situation will just continue and the proof will make itself obvious through the build up of circumstantial evidence. The shittiest way for Gox customers (including silly old me) to learn the truth. |
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It is logical to assume they are looking for someone to rescue them, but the liabilities at this stage look insurmountable. The domains and new (untested?) trading engine will be sold off, but I can't see anyone wanting to take on the whole operation.
Well we don't know what the liabilities are precisely. I still think they could well have more of a fiat liquidity issue, they may have lost a truckload of coins but the 750k number from an obviously fake document is not something which should be reasonably considered at this point. I don't know why people are saying it is fake. The Gox.com rebranding is in progress, the steps outlined and the financial numbers look right. The only reason the bitcoin numbers look wrong are because it seems so staggeringly inept. I am inclined to believe it. We will see. It's not the figures, its the style of writing. Just completely unprofessional. Oh, wait a minute!  |
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We are in a process of being acquired, at the current time I am not in the position to give you further information. I can only reassure you, that your funds are securely kept in our cold storage. An official statement is to be released tomorrow. https://www.facebook.com/goxbitcoinjust read the above...... It's just that it's highly unlikely that page is actually created and maintained by (formerly) Mt.Gox. Copied the (low res) logo from the "leaked" BS doc probably. There is also the telling sign that this page has actually released a statement! |
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I just read the mtgox source code.
<html>
<head>
<title>MtGox.com</title>
</head>
<body>
<!-- put announce for mtgox acq here -->
</body>
</html>
What does acq mean?
At the moment it could mean anything from "acquisition" to "fuck you all!!". |
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So anyone who receive the fiat withdraw after today, please kindly leave a message here.
Especially anyone outside Japan |
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Specifically, the "Gox getting acquired" bullshit. Is there anything to substantiate that other than a message in an otherwise empty html page?
It's not so much about believing as playing the odds. Why do people "believe" an obvious fake document claiming over 700k coins have been lost/stolen? I'm not believing anything, I'm weighing odds. The HTML comment is odd in the way that it is so redundant and unnecessary. But stuff has shown up and been removed a few times in the source today so the site is not actually abandoned at this point. There's not much reason to put anything at all on the site if it was shut down for good. It's not buying any meaningful time anymore at this point. In short, no theory makes total sense right now. If only MK would write "Fuck you all!!" in the HTML that would give some sense of closure!  |
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Actually it seems I was too quick to post that and it is in fact FUD.
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Fud. Sorry for the misunderstanding. |
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There is also this, less promising, evidence: EDIT: Please excuse me posting this. It is a hoax I fell for. |
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There is also this that people should be aware of: EDIT: Please excuse this. I think it is more FUD. Amazing the clever tricks people are coming up with. |
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Yep I think I have been Goxxed and while I believe in bitcoin and don't blame it one bit I think its over for me. Mark has cleaned me out.
That said I still harbour a glimmer of hope however tiny it might be.
I'm with you on the "glimmer of hope" there!  |
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What would be the motivation for the acquiring company to take on a crapload of debt/liabilities instead of just writing their own exchange and starting new?
Hundreds of thousands of customer accounts really counts for something as there is no big rush of people trying to get into Bitcoin at the moment making it difficult to build volume on new exchanges - and a good percentage of these customers are rich people who just want to get back to trading. Turning Gox around would bring a massive amount of credibility and attention to the acquirer. I admit to having a vested interest in Gox coming back from the grave but seriously, the flipside of a broken company like this can be serious profits if new management get it right. Happens often in the world of business. BTW I don't believe the crisis document, the HTML, or any of this new material that has come to light over the past 24 hours. |
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750k is ~6% of the total BTC float. So yeah, it's gonna hurt bitcoin big time. I am not worried about people like you who have 100's-1000's of coins most likely obtained at very small prices in the years past *and acquiring them from the sale of your dice site (which is likely why you seem to be at ease with your loss), but I am worried about the 1000's of people sucked in over the past 6-8 months that poured their savings, or what ever extra money into BTC up to $1000. Most probably lost a coin or two or less but at a greater cost. Their loss negative effect and is going to spread by word of mouth. These people who lost will be BTC's worst enemy. Try arguing against the thought of having their lost money in a FDIC bank instead of BTC (which happened to be by proxy with mtgox) with these people and you will lose. You can try and convince yourself otherwise, but this is gonna sting if not downright paralyze the coin. Will it recover? Most likely. Next week? No. Maybe this could be the time for an alt-coin to step up to the plate with more security.
I foolishly lost a lot of money, but it's my fault entirely. I do believe most who got Goxxed today will be able to see that it was exactly that - a "Goxxing" and not a problem with Bitcoin. Hell it's not as if people didn't try to warn us right? |
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Hi guys,
Is bitcoin builder still working?
If yes, I guess it s only working for people who had already withdrew their Gox coins.
Is there by chace any crazy way to still transfer the coins from gox to bitcoin builder. Maybe the API still works??
Better find a way fast because I think there's only going to be one overall direction of trade today! |
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Do you believe everything you read in the press?
I have lived in a communist regime - I know that media lie - but I don't see what wired would gain by this lie and they can lose much. I have been on the internet for some time - I know that people don't check the facts - but I still trust wired fact checking more than T.Stuart from bitcointalk And by they way: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7294762 - not much - but it gets a bit more credible for me now. I read that apparently it was already even confirmed by the NY Times! Seriously though, as a native English-speaker and someone who has worked with accounts, written feasibility studies, etc., the document appears so amateurish that I cannot believe any company, auditor... or even Mark Karpeles himself, could write such a thing (if it is genuinely meant to be a proposal for re-launching Gox). |
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Change the title of this thread please.
I suggest: "MtGox Acquisition?"
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Do you believe everything you read in the press?
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The document is utterly, without doubt, fake!
No clue about the real balances though.
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I'll defend anyone against rumors, amateurish "leaked" documents, and unconfirmed allegations.
It's to everyone's benefit in this community that we have accurate, solid information and not jump to conclusions. Circumstantial evidence is being used to declare MtGox insolvency as a foregone conclusion, rather than just a fairly high likelihood. This is wrong. It is poor reckoning of evidence, even if they do turn out to be insolvent in the end.
The "crisis document" is so badly fake it would be laughable in different circumstances, but I fear that many (including myself) have been blinded by either greed or hope over the past couple of weeks. Leaked paper doesn't look like professional, but so does MtGox. What do you expect? They used to trade some cards. Don't give victims false hope. Many people are in first stage of grief. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCbler-Ross_model#StagesI lost 1.8 BTC to some scammers, so I can imagine some victims' pain when they lost 75 BTC or more on MtGox. Not giving anyone false hope. As I said I fear some with funds in Gox since before the lockdown have been blinded by hope and some going wild trading real BTC for Gox BTC by fear: ie despite strange documents appearing etc. it looks like game over. EDIT: greed!  |
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