That document simply can't be real. It is written incredibly... amateurishly? Oh... wait  |
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Although I was initially skeptical, today's events and the joint statement have me convinced that MtGox is indeed insolvent.
However, is it actually possible for that 750,000 BTC figure to be true? You cannot lose that much to a software and accounting problem "without noticing for two years!" I see three possibilities:
1. The private keys to the cold storage addresses were accidentally destroyed, lost or seized.
2. The coins were stolen by insiders using "malleability" as an excuse.
3. The 750,000 BTC figure is wrong, and the number of missing coins is much less.
This figure comes from a "crisis document" which is so badly written even Gox couldn't have made it! (clearly fake) This fact doesn't clarify the real situation unfortunately. |
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I'll defend anyone against rumors, amateurish "leaked" documents, and unconfirmed allegations.
It's to everyone's benefit in this community that we have accurate, solid information and not jump to conclusions. Circumstantial evidence is being used to declare MtGox insolvency as a foregone conclusion, rather than just a fairly high likelihood. This is wrong. It is poor reckoning of evidence, even if they do turn out to be insolvent in the end.
The "crisis document" is so badly fake it would be laughable in different circumstances, but I fear that many (including myself) have been blinded by either greed or hope over the past couple of weeks. |
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For 2 years they have never checked their bitcoin assets !!! Can we ask other exchanges to do audits? Where did you find that info? From the "crisis document" circulating at the moment? That must be the most obvious fake I've ever seen! That said unfortunately there is no good reason to believe anyone is getting anything back from Gox. |
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The self-proclaimed "world's largest bitcoin exchange" is basically saying it is to hard to take a collection of their own addresses, count the amount of BTC constituted by all unspent outputs in that wallet, and compare it with the expected balance.
The question is - how many other exchanges have been robbed blind and aren't aware of it? This exchange has lost 750,000 BTC. My God, you'd think that would be like trying to drive a dumptruck full of nitroglycerin through an obstacle course. Yet somehow, this was pulled off. Gox 'n' company might be unusually idiotic, but don't bet on it. Perhaps there is more to this story than meets the eye. What if TX malleability wasn't really to blame? Another vulnerability perhaps? Are other exchanges being milked dry before our very eyes? Who knows. This exchange lost 750 000btc How can you know? Gox is still trading and went not below 100$. Sorry to say but Gox is not trading - it is completely out. That said the recent document purporting to be a "crisis plan", which tells of the 750,000 BTC loss, is very clearly fake (which doesn't leave us any the wiser unfortunately). |
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I fear that the only reason they removed the word "insolvency" is because technically this could be used against them if Gox decided to try to get money any which way possible including suing companies or people that publicly stated that they were insolvent, claiming it caused a run etc.
Coinbase etc. are just covering themselves legally until the moment when (if it ever happens) Gox makes a statement admitting to being insolvent.
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Who wrote this?
That's a very good question. It's quite possible that it's fake. I've been bugging news outlets to insist that the guy who posted it post the actual file, not a link to scribd, so that forensic tools can be used on the source. It also might be something someone at Mt. Gox planted, to direct attention away from internal theft and discourage efforts to force what's left of Mt. Gox into bankruptcy now. This document is very clearly fake. |
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I've never seen such a bullshit fake piece of shit document before in my life!
I know Gox sets the bar pretty high when it comes to incompetence, but even they wouldn't write this thing!
(BTW this doesn't mean anyone will get their funds back of course)
EDIT: sorry for the understatement there: "is an impossible act to follow when it comes to incompetence" is more accurate.
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it just means we need to be patient while they take twice as much time as the competition and deliver a solution half as good. Wrong answer. We do not "need to be patient." Mt. Gox needs to be killed off in a bankruptcy and their assets distributed to their depositors. You think this will lead to a better outcome than waiting for them to fix their issues and then just removing all your coins and never going back? I suspect a lawsuit will strand people for yearsNice article by the way! Have you tried getting hold of Mark Karpeles for an interview? |
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it just means we need to be patient while they take twice as much time as the competition and deliver a solution half as good. Wrong answer. We do not "need to be patient." Mt. Gox needs to be killed off in a bankruptcy and their assets distributed to their depositors. No "killing" necessary. Now that the pressure is on give them space to answer clearly. The waves of hate and panic only distort things further. |
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It's interesting that for the first time yesterday, Jon Matonis read the ongoing forum debate regarding the resignation petition (below, according to him) and within 24 hours Karpeles resigns. Jon Matonis released the resignation statement this morning. https://bitcoinfoundation.org/forum/index.php?/topic/740-petition-to-remove-mark-karpeles-from-the-bitcoin-foundation-board/page__st__20I think we can safely assume that Jon called Mark. We can only speculate as to how that call transpired, but one would have to believe that solvency was an important focus of the conversation. It seems like a very fast resolution (less than 24 hours), which makes one wonder - Did Karpeles throw his hands up and say 'to hell with it, I'm sick of dealing with the public' then resigned or
- Did he reveal that things were so dire at Mt. Gox that Matonis basically told him that he must resign immediately?
- Or did Mark resign for the sake of the Foundation, as he knows that the tarnish will be impossible to remove regardless of the outcome
One would think that if things were going to improve (vis–à–vis buying their way out, etc.) at Mt. Gox, Karpeles would have at least thought about the resignation for a day or two before resigning.....He must have been aware of this for at least a day or two don't you reckon? |
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Don't know about Mr Allen, but where do you get it from that because we're in a bear market your total worth has to have taken a 50% hair cut?
Perhaps I am taking poetic license in claiming that a Bitcoiner has taken a 50% haircut just because Bitcoin is down 50% in the last two months, but perhaps not. billyjoeallen has stated that he maxed out credit cards to buy into Bitcoin back in the day. That means, he didn't have a bean to rub together, and got into debt to invest in Bitcoin. A absolutely crazy risk that only someone 'in the know' or a complete zealot nutter woud take. In this case, his death or glory gamble has paid off for him. However, because he is the sort of fanatical nutter that would indebt himself in order to get in on a highly volatile asset, I imagine that most of his wealth is still in Bitcoin. If you have followed the bullshit he has polluted these forums with over the past two months you will know that: A) He is a holder B) He completely lacks the ability to read markets Taking all this into consideration, billyjoeallen is probably worth around half of what he was worth in USD two months ago. It is a fair comment, I think. That reminds me - got to get down to my local Tunisian barber. A bargain at 6 Euros a shot!
U in Ireland? I got the impression that you were a fellow Scot. Touched that you thought we might hail from the same place but I'm an Englishman living in Brussels, Belgium! Where are you from then? Glasgow? |
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You gotta love how MR. Civility shows he's just as vulgar as the rest of us when he's almost right. Congrats, Bro. Now you're still wrong and you have no moral high ground. I've made more fiat, more BTC, and shown you to be a hypocrite. If that's what it takes to be a dumb fuck, I'll take it.
You have taken over a 50% haircut on your total worth in the past 2 months u fkn loser, which kind of proves your good fortune has been entirely based on luck. Why don't u just STFU and finally stop embarrassing yourself? Don't know about Mr Allen, but where do you get it from that because we're in a bear market your total worth has to have taken a 50% hair cut? That reminds me - got to get down to my local Tunisian barber. A bargain at 6 Euros a shot! |
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But... it's uncanny. Am I seeing things? Double double bottom fractals!  |
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And some of us use them oh so roughly I can tell you that!  |
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Karpeles resigning and the reset Twitter accounts is because Karpeles will announce this week that he will no longer be the CEO of MtGox. There will be a professional CEO at the head of Gox who will (try to) make MtGox again a succesfull exchange.
I have no insider info, just my guess.
Wishful thinking. I don't know what will happen but this appears unlikely to me. I can see three scenarios: - Hard bankruptcy, remaining fiat and bitcoins are shared out in proportion after losses are deducted
- Takeover by another company with deep coffers (not too likely, in my view, because Mt. Gox does not look very attractive)
- Mt. Gox wriggles through and comes out solvent, perhaps barely solvent, and continues to pay out slowly (also wishful thinking, but not entirely impossible).
The loss of reputation would be difficult to reverse, so I find it hard to see any rosy future for Mt. Gox. Agree with your points although I don't think Gox would be that unattractive. An outside investor would see a huge client base and an opportunity to turn things around. |
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If that were to be true, why wouldn't they just modify their service desk system instead of deleting all of their tweets?
This doesn't make sense to me..
Can't say for sure but if I was going to unhook the service system from Twitter I would empty the old Twitter messages. Maybe I'm just too fussy about tidying up.  |
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Karpeles resigning and the reset Twitter accounts is because Karpeles will announce this week that he will no longer be the CEO of MtGox. There will be a professional CEO at the head of Gox who will (try to) make MtGox again a succesfull exchange.
I have no insider info, just my guess.
I'll just quote what I put in another thread as the Twitter thing could just be staff re-arranging their account. A reddit user thinks there could be a more mundane reason for Twitter: It was linked automatically to a service desk and the user contacted Gox about it - so he thinks they are just setting up their Twitter differently. http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1yrqpm/mtgox_deletes_all_tweets_from_their_twitter_feed/?sort=newEDIT look for: [–]Delerium69 1 point 1 hour ago Actually i mentioned this to the support management last week about it not being fit for purpose. Looks like they've listened. Our service desk system was linked directly to twitter meaning that anytime anyone tweeted us, it created a ticket and was responded to via twitter when we resolve the cases. |
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A reddit user thinks there could be a more mundane reason for Twitter: It was linked automatically to a service desk and the user contacted Gox about it - so he thinks they are just setting up their Twitter differently. http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1yrqpm/mtgox_deletes_all_tweets_from_their_twitter_feed/?sort=newEDIT look for: [–]Delerium69 1 point 1 hour ago Actually i mentioned this to the support management last week about it not being fit for purpose. Looks like they've listened. Our service desk system was linked directly to twitter meaning that anytime anyone tweeted us, it created a ticket and was responded to via twitter when we resolve the cases. |
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