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3561  Economy / Economics / Re: Bitcoin Loans and Lending; The Weakness in The Bitcoin Economy on: July 13, 2011, 02:36:08 AM
Businesses depend on loans because they are artificially so cheap right now. It would be like if there was an enormous subsidy for blankets for a decade. Everyone would find all kinds of ways to blankets because they were practically free. Ending the subsidy and making people pay whatever the right cost is for blankets is clearly the right thing to do even if it shakes up business practices for a while.

There is nothing wrong and plenty of things right with people needing to earn before they spend. The flip side of expensive borrowing is that you get very high interest in real terms for working and saving a while before you spend.

Instead of grinding away at a job for decades and having your savings devalued you work harder and spend less up front and in a year you have plenty of capital to get started.

It should also be noted that the bitcoin economy is not in a steady state. Right now the best play by far is to convert old economy assets to bitcoin. Later when most are in the bitcoin economy this explosion will be over and the new profit will be picking things that appreciate faster than the general economy which means committing some coins to stuff.
3562  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: What to do when withdrawing to a non-existent BTC address? on: July 12, 2011, 11:57:33 PM
The coins should be there when you load in the backup and rescan. Doesn't really matter how old.
3563  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Can bitcoin fill the void in a bank run? on: July 12, 2011, 11:20:20 PM
Because of the FDIC the next bank run will be different. It won't be a mad dash to get dollars, we can get those for sure. It'll be a dash to get value for our dollars. There is and can be no guarantee on that. I suspect people who have no more room for cans of beans and toilet paper will try to get some of their wealth through the crisis in gold and bitcoin.

The FDIC has almost no money. The banks that fail every Friday like clockwork have depleted the insurance fund completely. Sheila Bair is operating off of a 500 billion line of credit with Treasury, which will not be nearly enough to prevent a bank run should a TBTF go down.  Increasing that line of credit literally requires an act of congress, meaning it wouldn't happen in time to do any good. Besides, Treasury is Broke too.


Bank runs are always, always deflationary, but the big financial crisis may not be a bank run. It depends on how much liquidity the FED provides. Too much and the ship alters course from Japan to Zimbabwe.


Congress doesn't do fast trillion dollar bailouts? Since when?

Deflationary bank runs are for real money. You can say that what is coming won't be technically a bank run, I guess I would agree, but it sure as hell won't be deflationary.
3564  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Can bitcoin fill the void in a bank run? on: July 12, 2011, 07:10:15 PM
Because of the FDIC the next bank run will be different. It won't be a mad dash to get dollars, we can get those for sure. It'll be a dash to get value for our dollars. There is and can be no guarantee on that. I suspect people who have no more room for cans of beans and toilet paper will try to get some of their wealth through the crisis in gold and bitcoin.
3565  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: suppose this is the most asked newbie question on: July 12, 2011, 11:28:31 AM
The first thing is to determine if you are going to CPU mine or GPU mine.

What kind of graphics card do you have?

That's not the first question.

Bitcoin is a money, you can get it from anyone who has it by doing anything they value. One extra way to get coins is mining which secures the network. Miner get paid new coins. Do not mine with a CPU it is just a waste now because GPUs are so much more efficient. If you aren't interested in computer hardware then don't bother mining, I don't.
3566  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: What is all this 'mining' all about? on: July 12, 2011, 11:25:49 AM
You don't need to worry about mining if you don't want to. It's how we buy security for our network. The miners process transactions and get paid new coins.
3567  Economy / Economics / Re: If dollars crash to a value of 0, what happens to USA's national debt? on: July 12, 2011, 09:05:45 AM
So you're saying that technically it would pay off USA's national debt if the dollar was devalued to 0? And you're also saying that it would be very hard to devalue the dollar to 0 because the rich and powerful don't want that to happen?
 

The devaluation itself wouldn't pay the debt, the trilllions of dollars will still need to be handed over.

It isn't like this is free either. Defaulting like this costs the powers their money faucet. Hyperinflation may happen, but it won't be because they prefer it.
3568  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Mybitcoin is a scam! on: July 12, 2011, 08:55:17 AM
A solution to this kind of problem is for wallet services to offer 'signed receipts' for all transactions, and only carry out transactions for which the customer first signed a request.

Then in the case of a dispute a customer can simply present as evidence their receipt (which has the account balance on it), with their digital signature and the wallet providers signature. Whoever has the most recent receipt 'wins' the argument (because everyones signature is on it).

https://github.com/FellowTraveler/Open-Transactions/wiki/Triple-Signed-Receipts
http://iang.org/papers/triple_entry.html
http://truledger.com/


Is a receipt enough? Won't you also need to show that you never withdrew the coins in order to prove you were actually stolen from?
3569  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Mybitcoin is a scam! on: July 12, 2011, 08:54:28 AM
I just got an email from one of my best friends...

He lost 1000 Bitcoins on MyBitcoin.com   

He has heard no reply whatsoever to any of his emails to them.

Of course, I am the one who recommended MyBitcoin to him.

Imagine how I feel about that.

You say he lost them, but surely it's not final. How long has he been trying to contact Tom?

Something is going on, but I don't think he's stealing random accounts or that this will never be resolved.

I was able to access my account and withdraw funds tonight.
3570  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Are you going to sell your Bitcoins before the difficulty reaches max? on: July 12, 2011, 08:19:46 AM
I guess 5 people are confused or never intend to sell.
3571  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Block creation will eventually become more stable and predictable on: July 12, 2011, 06:17:37 AM
Another cool effect is that you'll actually be able to get faster service with a higher fee even once the fee you were going to pay guarantees inclusion. If you pay .001 you'll get in for sure, but if you pay .1 maybe you'll make the difference for 10000 miners and decrease your expected wait by 30 seconds. There probably will be some roughly known point at which all available hashing power is on and extra won't help or at least give greatly diminishing returns. So watching the basket of fees will be part of excellent fee strategy.
3572  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Block creation will eventually become more stable and predictable on: July 12, 2011, 06:14:25 AM
block creation is perfectly stable and predictable.  it was designed that way.

but it was designed by someone with a long-term vision, and you simply can't look at it in the short term.

Um, it is not perfectly stable and anyone reasonable looks both short and long term. Are you missing the point of the original post?

you mean this:

Quote
The result is that almost all miners individually, acting rationally, would stop mining after a block is found and simply go about routing and keeping track of transactions until enough fees accumulate to warrant the electricity to search for a block.

?

no.  i don't think i'm missing it - i just don't think it's valid.

on a practical level, no miner does this.  it's a ridiculous amount of effort.

and on a strictly financial level, i suspect it's more expensive (in terms of both electrical power and wear on equipment [starting and stopping fans, etc.]) to do this.  do you turn off the engine of your car, waiting at a stoplight (some new hybrids - which are designed for that - excepted)?  no.  you use more gas starting an engine than you use in 30-60 seconds of idle.

i just can't see starting and stopping my miners six times an hour as a particularly efficient strategy.  even if i were to write a script to automate it, it would still - i offer - use more power and degrade the equipment more than would be offset by any tiny, theoretical profit.

How about in 140 years? Do you think people will mine if they get 0BTC for finding a block? Or maybe they'll wait until there is a fee offered causing the effect the Atheros is talking about.
3573  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Block creation will eventually become more stable and predictable on: July 12, 2011, 05:43:54 AM
block creation is perfectly stable and predictable.  it was designed that way.

but it was designed by someone with a long-term vision, and you simply can't look at it in the short term.

Um, it is not perfectly stable and anyone reasonable looks both short and long term. Are you missing the point of the original post?
3574  Economy / Speculation / Re: Just keep it in mind that there is someone has more than 10k bitcoin on: July 12, 2011, 05:40:04 AM
Is 10k supposed to be a lot? One market does many times this every day. If someone wants to get less money by selling in 1 minute instead of 4 hours all the better for buyers. Also people who are prone to selling 10k coins at a time likely would have sold them at $1, $2, $4, $8, $15, or $30. Since they declined to sell a single one of their remaining coins you can probably chill out.

So how does this work, am I supposed to wait a while after my pump posts to sell or do I do it right away?
3575  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Active Bitcoin nodes per day since December - cool charts on: July 12, 2011, 05:21:49 AM
what exactly is a node.  Is me running a client a node? Is my miner a node? not sure what a node is.

Should be clients only. Afaik you can't tell if a client is mining and you could mine on 10000 machines and only appear as one node.
3576  Economy / Marketplace / Re: MyBitcoin problems. on: July 12, 2011, 05:05:54 AM
Ok so I had this address A in mybitcoin account and decided to transfer fund from my wallet through bitcoin laundry. I input put the A address in bitcoin laundry as a forwarding address. Then, me being stupid decided to click generate an addition address in mybitcoin. So now, I have address B.

I'm wondering will mybitcoin still accept the coins I sent from bitcoin laundry to mybitcoin address A? Because I see only address B now....help please? Thanks

I think it says somewhere that this is fine. Look around the site.
3577  Economy / Marketplace / Re: Convincing local retailers... on: July 12, 2011, 05:01:52 AM
Merchants aren't going to jump right in on first hearing, but they (some at least) do listen to what customers are asking for. I would be careful not to push anything even 1 second beyond what people want to hear. Just say "Have you thought about accepting Bitcoins?". If they are interested they will ask more, if not it'll just sit in their minds for next time someone asks or they hear it on NPR.
3578  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Block creation will eventually become more stable and predictable on: July 12, 2011, 04:56:07 AM
This is great. I got chills back when I first realized. I think we'll start to notice it to a small degree in 10 years when 6.25 is the base reward. The free electricity people won't stop, but a good number of people will and we'll be able to see it in slightly more even times between blocks.

Actually, it probably depends on what it does to hardware to change the load on it constantly. If that's bad for hardware then we probably won't notice it for longer.

Secondary uses for hashing power will influence things too. Even if you have free electricity you might switch between bitcoin and namecoin based on the accumulated fees waiting on each.
3579  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Potential attack vector in generating Bitcoin addresses? on: July 11, 2011, 07:19:16 PM
To run Firstbits, you need a complete copy of the block chain. Most nodes will not have a full copy in the future, so you'd have to rely on a central service.

It's the same as Bitcoin in that sense. You don't have to have the chain to use Bitcoin or FirstBits, but you can, and that's what will keep the data providers honest.
3580  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: FirstBits.com - remember and share Bitcoin addresses on: July 11, 2011, 02:12:42 AM
Has anybody asked what happens if at some point you give out your 4-bit address to receive some BTC from a new friend and they give the BTC's to a complete stranger? It just doesn't sit well...  Undecided

You mean if there is a mistake? The coins would be gone.
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