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3121  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Sent some btc into a black hole on: November 16, 2011, 10:19:15 PM
Well, I guess it was bound to happen sooner or later. I was trying to send some btc to a newly generated address so that I could memorize the private key, and then have my BTC in my brain. My clients copy paste function wasn't working correctly, so I decided to type the address in manually. I was lazy, so I didn't double check the address. at least it was only .25 BTC. Just thought I'd share my story with you guys. Smiley Moral: If you ever manually type an address, double check it.

Seriously unlucky if true.

Please share the correct and incorrect address.
3122  Economy / Speculation / Re: Exchanges ar bad for BTC on: November 16, 2011, 07:07:48 PM
You think they didn't have $200? What it's all been used to buy... what? If they have coins they can sell them on their own exchange instantly. Do you think they've used the million (?) dollars of fees and then millions more of customer money to improve the website?

If you are just realizing that this is a possible thing, okay, whatever. But not getting you your $200 means they are slow and incompetent not that they somehow spent all the money. I mean even if they were going to yank the money out from under us it wouldn't show up as a delay on random small amounts.
3123  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why Run the Bitcoin Client? on: November 16, 2011, 06:21:25 PM
Note that the reward scheme for mining isn't optimal either.  Once the block reward approaches zero, miners get rewarded for faster transaction processing, but they don't get rewarded for securing the network, which is their main purpose.  Securing the network is just a positive externality.   

Care to explain that.  More transaction fees = more miners = stronger network.

stronger network is a side effect, but it's not what the individual user is buying from the individual miner.

If a user doubles his fees, he is not going to double his security. 

There is no way for a user to pay to increase security under any transaction fee system.  There is only one level of security.  However setting min transaction fees could ensure that min level of security is provided based on transaction volume.


The security of a transaction after X time is already determined in a rough way by tx fee. It's pretty binary right now, but when there are lots of miners with different schedules your chance of getting in by any certain block will depend on fee.

In the far future a large fee could actually have -some- impact on the speed of the next block too.
3124  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What happens if someone dumps a million dollars into the market? on: November 16, 2011, 02:47:44 AM
I think he's trying to figure out if the market goes up or down. The market's fate likely resides in the hands of the guy with the million. If he wants to go up it most likely will, likewise in the other direction.

So he can somehow buy $1M at below market rates? I think this is what he'll choose then and we've somehow established that huge demand pushes prices down.
3125  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Transaction fee? on: November 15, 2011, 11:24:02 PM
Satoshi's client version 0.3.20 (and all previous ones) does not impose any fee.

Choose your favorite from here: http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files%2FBitcoin/

You've got to be careful. The fee isn't 'imposed' to harm you. If you send without a fee when the current version wants it other nodes may consider your tx to be spam and not forward it.


The current vanilla client doesn't refuse to forward the transaction, but most miners are not going to include the transaction until it's old enough to qualify as a free transaction.  I believe that the current client defaults to a transaction fee, but that can be changed in the settings.  The vanilla client will refuse to create a transaction based upon an input transaction that is newer than 6 confirmations old.

Oh, my bad. I was sure that it was the others won't forward it. So a modified client can flood the network? Everyone will forward? Reference to a thread about the current state of this would be much appreciated.
3126  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Transaction fee? on: November 15, 2011, 11:03:30 PM
Satoshi's client version 0.3.20 (and all previous ones) does not impose any fee.

Choose your favorite from here: http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files%2FBitcoin/

You've got to be careful. The fee isn't 'imposed' to harm you. If you send without a fee when the current version wants it other nodes may consider your tx to be spam and not forward it.

.001 cent is pretty cheap to pay to prove you actually care about the tx getting processed. 
3127  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: 25btc/block soon? on: November 15, 2011, 07:30:33 PM


The reasoning behind only 4 years is that what Satoshi really envisioned is a stable monetary base without inflation. Some inflation at first is necessary, but he wanted to "get over with it" as quickly as possible.
 

This doesn't seem right. The inflation would be lower faster with a shorter doubling period.

I think he just thought 4 years would be roughly the time to get the word out. I really wish it was either a smooth curve or more frequent small percent drops. I'm very excited about 210000, but I don't know if an 'exciting' event is what a new currency needs really.
3128  Economy / Economics / Re: If you have 100 bitcoins in your computer wallet and 100 in your MtGox account, on: November 15, 2011, 08:40:40 AM
You have 100BTC and are owed 100BTC. MtGox has 100BTC and owes 100BTC.

MtGox debt right now trades at face value, that's just incidental and hasn't always been the case.
3129  Economy / Auctions / Re: 5 BTC up for auction! Bidding starts at 1 BTC. on: November 15, 2011, 05:00:51 AM
what happens if you make top bid pay full, second pay half, third a third, etc?
3130  Other / Politics & Society / Re: when should you shoot a cop on: November 15, 2011, 12:39:54 AM
I completely disagree that an officer is justified in pulling a gun on you for having dark windshields.

That said I certainly would not shoot in that spot or encourage anyone else to.

All I'm saying ITT is that anyone saying "never" isn't thinking.
It makes sense to me.  If the officer can't see that the person in the vehicle isn't pulling a gun on them, they've got to take steps to protect themselves.

If someone is doing nothing but traveling with dark windows and a cop feels he'd be putting life in danger (his) then he needs to let it go. Pulling a gun for having dark windows is major escalation. I don't think a cop has a right to take money from someone with dark windows any more than I have that right. But if they are really set on that style extortion then send a letter in the mail. You've got their plate number, name, address. This doesn't need to be done with a gun on the side of the road.
3131  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: OKPAY accepting bitcoin as a deposit method on: November 14, 2011, 10:00:40 AM
Ouch I was expecting fees but those are just downright stupid.

Up to $15 to get my cash from an ATM?  No thanks.  I will keep using free checks from TradeHill.

Sadly if someone did offer a decently priced bitcoin backed debit card they would get all the BTC -> USD flows.  Someday it will happen but it isn't OKPay.

Maybe someday Dwolla will offer a Dwolla debit card?  That would be at least a half step.

ehh, that would be the upper limit of their card withdraw fee, 2% of 750 $. If you exceed 750$ the fee would remain at same level.

You can get more than $750 from an ATM somehow? Or is that like the monthly max of ATM fees?

Really I'm not going to be happy until there is a guy standing in the mall with pockets full of cash and a smart phone wearing a bitcoin shirt charging $2 for exchanges up to $1000.

Why, so he can get mugged?  Bad idea.

No one would do that. Everyone loves mall bitcoin guy.
3132  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Microsoft Researchers Suggest Method to Improve Bitcoin Transaction Propagation on: November 13, 2011, 11:35:04 AM
Of course, this takes us a little bit further from the purist "zero trust" design that Satoshi was aiming for. Starting a new insurance company would (in the absence of functioning broadcast) be harder because you'd have to find all the miners. 

Miners will want to hear about the tx, no? Seems not like a problem at all.
3133  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Suggested MAJOR change to Bitcoin on: November 13, 2011, 08:24:29 AM

Block generations which are lost in a chain split (e.g. due to a network partitioning event) can _never_ be recovered, even assuming a complete lack of bad intent. 

What does this mean?

If the split is resolved in less than 120 then the generator loses them. If longer than 120 then he might have spent them and the recipient loses them, but so what? The sender still owes however many coins, he's the one out coins if there is no ill intent exactly as if the split is healed earlier.

Maybe I don't get it.
3134  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: 25btc/block soon? on: November 13, 2011, 12:49:47 AM
I move a lot. I get short term places, often 1-3 months. As best I can remember in my whole life I've had electric bill in my name 3 times, no electric bill ~8 times, and electric added to rent once. This doesn't count extended stay type places that also don't charge extra based on electric consumption, in those I don't even know if they can meter by room.

In most places you aren't going to get away with $100 more than the owner was expecting though.

I think the long term equilibrium is low power consuming specialized hashing devices, but in the medium term zero cost to miner electricity is going to be providing a lot of the network power.
3135  Other / Politics & Society / Re: when should you shoot a cop on: November 13, 2011, 12:36:18 AM
I completely disagree that an officer is justified in pulling a gun on you for having dark windshields.

That said I certainly would not shoot in that spot or encourage anyone else to.

All I'm saying ITT is that anyone saying "never" isn't thinking.
3136  Other / Politics & Society / Re: when should you shoot a cop on: November 12, 2011, 06:56:30 PM
 
You don't need to go completely over the top in your scenario to prove "never" is wrong

Yeah, I agree. 'Never' is self evidently wrong.

 

You don't need to go completely over the top in your scenario to prove "never" is wrong, you simply need to point out that when a cop acts outside the law, he ceases to be a cop, 

That's really convenient, no?

Why magic rules here? If we said "When should you shoot a plumber?" would you say, "Never, if he starts killing you with his plunger he's not a plumber anymore."?

'Profession' doesn't matter. Either you protect your self from dangerous humans or you don't.
3137  Other / Politics & Society / Re: when should you shoot a cop on: November 12, 2011, 08:36:49 AM
never..

Really? Do you have no imagination?

Cop and his partner break in your door. Cop kills your family then his partner. Explains how you are going to prison for the murders because the gun he used is unregistered and he's going to put your prints on it, not to mention testify that you did it.

But he's lowered his weapon and didn't expect you'd have one inside your jacket.

Never is bull.
3138  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Bitcoin Google Hangout on: November 11, 2011, 11:08:41 PM
I'll be one later today.

Happy first birthday!

 Cheesy
3139  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: OKPAY accepting bitcoin as a deposit method on: November 11, 2011, 08:17:23 PM
Ouch I was expecting fees but those are just downright stupid.

Up to $15 to get my cash from an ATM?  No thanks.  I will keep using free checks from TradeHill.

Sadly if someone did offer a decently priced bitcoin backed debit card they would get all the BTC -> USD flows.  Someday it will happen but it isn't OKPay.

Maybe someday Dwolla will offer a Dwolla debit card?  That would be at least a half step.

ehh, that would be the upper limit of their card withdraw fee, 2% of 750 $. If you exceed 750$ the fee would remain at same level.

You can get more than $750 from an ATM somehow? Or is that like the monthly max of ATM fees?

Really I'm not going to be happy until there is a guy standing in the mall with pockets full of cash and a smart phone wearing a bitcoin shirt charging $2 for exchanges up to $1000.
3140  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: [ANNOUNCE] Bitcoin Fog: Secure Bitcoin Anonymization on: November 11, 2011, 05:22:29 PM
Right now the precision of each payout is randomized as well. If course, if there are only 2 or 3 payouts (which there are if amounts are small, due to tx fees), then most of them will always have the same precision, because the sum of them must still add up to the amount the user wants to withdraw.

Charge a random fee? Something between 1.5% and 2.5%? Even 1.95-2.05 would probably help.

It would be interesting to implement the distribution you have provided instead of blind randomizing. However, I don't see that it does much for anonymization, since the fact that the money came from our service will be visible anyways (as of now, all payouts are mostly done from the same address), and analysis of precision does not do much for identifying the deposit associated with this withdrawal, since they all are randomized. Or am I missing something?

Why would you do this? You move all funds to one address?

Of course that helps identify where the money comes from. Now you know it comes from some of your 1, 10, 100 customers. You'll never have so much traffic that that fact is useless.

Are you doing this because you are paying your own coins until you build up a new large stash of deposited coins? Like seed money that happened to be in one address? Seems you could have mixed that up some itself.
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