XMR vs DRK

[illodin]

My point was that these issues are unresolvable

I'm not sure about that.

short of DASH abandoning the bitcoin codebase and adopting a more opaque block chain.

Might happen, who knows. Evan is known for making big moves quite swiftly.

Just like Evan said he'd be implementing Ring Signatures back in May-June of 2014, then it got totally scrapped?

You're slightly odd character I must say. I can't put my finger on it, but you often seem to ask questions I don't quite understand. It's like you're referring to something I haven't said. Is it the language barrier? Or were you just dropped on your head one time too many as a child?

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[illodin]

Might happen, who knows. Evan is known for making big moves quite swiftly.

Being at the mercy of the "big moves" made "quite swiftly" by one individual is not always a good thing, in my opinion, when talking about a Free & Open Source Software project that involves units of value.

The community-driven approach is superior, even if it moves more slowly. Of course, you can't please all the people all of the time, so some sort of quasi-democratic system coordinated by a somewhat small team is usually the best compromise.  

Perhaps. Depends. Just because decisions are made slower or even not at all doesn't always mean they are better. World is not perfect. Luck is always a factor.

[iCEBREAKER]

short of DASH abandoning the bitcoin codebase and adopting a more opaque block chain.

Might happen, who knows. Evan is known for making big moves quite swiftly.

Just like Evan said he'd be implementing Ring Signatures back in May-June of 2014, then it got totally scrapped?

You're slightly odd character I must say. I can't put my finger on it, but you often seem to ask questions I don't quite understand. It's like you're referring to something I haven't said. Is it the language barrier? Or were you just dropped on your head one time too many as a child?

Quick, attack the attacker!

Discuss the attacker's personality and biography!  Change the topic away from Even's scrapped promise to implement ring signatures!

[illodin]

short of DASH abandoning the bitcoin codebase and adopting a more opaque block chain.

Might happen, who knows. Evan is known for making big moves quite swiftly.

Just like Evan said he'd be implementing Ring Signatures back in May-June of 2014, then it got totally scrapped?

You're slightly odd character I must say. I can't put my finger on it, but you often seem to ask questions I don't quite understand. It's like you're referring to something I haven't said. Is it the language barrier? Or were you just dropped on your head one time too many as a child?

Quick, attack the attacker!

Discuss the attacker's personality and biography!  Change the topic away from Even's scrapped promise to implement ring signatures!

Just like XMR and XCN weren't launched with highly unoptimized miners to allow insiders to mine with unfair hashrates?

See?

[Johnny Mnemonic]

My point was that these issues are unresolvable

I'm not sure about that.

short of DASH abandoning the bitcoin codebase and adopting a more opaque block chain.

Might happen, who knows. Evan is known for making big moves quite swiftly.

Just like Evan said he'd be implementing Ring Signatures back in May-June of 2014, then it got totally scrapped?

You're slightly odd character I must say. I can't put my finger on it, but you often seem to ask questions I don't quite understand. It's like you're referring to something I haven't said. Is it the language barrier? Or were you just dropped on your head one time too many as a child?

His statement is reasonable because there was a time when every single troll post in the XMR thread went along the lines of:

"Evan is implementing ring signatures into dark. You guys are so fucked."

Evan has a history of saying anything and everything to get support on his side. In this case, he promised something he couldn't reasonably deliver.

[Joshuar]

My point was that these issues are unresolvable

I'm not sure about that.

short of DASH abandoning the bitcoin codebase and adopting a more opaque block chain.

Might happen, who knows. Evan is known for making big moves quite swiftly.

Just like Evan said he'd be implementing Ring Signatures back in May-June of 2014, then it got totally scrapped?

You're slightly odd character I must say. I can't put my finger on it, but you often seem to ask questions I don't quite understand. It's like you're referring to something I haven't said. Is it the language barrier? Or were you just dropped on your head one time too many as a child?

I expected too much intelligence from you, sorry for assuming. If you're unable to correlate things together, then you should have just told me earlier and I would have typed a much easier to read, less "intelligent" sentence with simpler words like "removed" instead of "scrapped", for you to understand.

Obviously my comment about  "Just like Evan said he'd be implementing Ring Signatures back in May-June of 2014, then it got totally scrapped? was in response to your comment of, "Evan is known for making big moves quite swiftly. ".

Honestly, wow...

[Joshuar]

short of DASH abandoning the bitcoin codebase and adopting a more opaque block chain.

Might happen, who knows. Evan is known for making big moves quite swiftly.

Just like Evan said he'd be implementing Ring Signatures back in May-June of 2014, then it got totally scrapped?

You're slightly odd character I must say. I can't put my finger on it, but you often seem to ask questions I don't quite understand. It's like you're referring to something I haven't said. Is it the language barrier? Or were you just dropped on your head one time too many as a child?

Quick, attack the attacker!

Discuss the attacker's personality and biography!  Change the topic away from Even's scrapped promise to implement ring signatures!

Just like XMR and XCN weren't launched with highly unoptimized miners to allow insiders to mine with unfair hashrates?

See?

Extremely big difference. At that time, it was Thankful_for_today that was the developer, so the current Monero devs had nothing to do with that. Even then, Monero's "paramters"(Block reward/Coin supply), were not changed at all, unlike Dash's which as you know got demolished.

Besides that, if one has the knowledge and skill, they can create optimized miners for themselves for any cryptocurrency, including Bitcoin. ASIC's, GPU's, hello?

[illodin]

My point was that these issues are unresolvable

I'm not sure about that.

short of DASH abandoning the bitcoin codebase and adopting a more opaque block chain.

Might happen, who knows. Evan is known for making big moves quite swiftly.

Just like Evan said he'd be implementing Ring Signatures back in May-June of 2014, then it got totally scrapped?

You're slightly odd character I must say. I can't put my finger on it, but you often seem to ask questions I don't quite understand. It's like you're referring to something I haven't said. Is it the language barrier? Or were you just dropped on your head one time too many as a child?

I expected too much intelligence from you, sorry for assuming. If you're unable to correlate things together, then you should have just told me earlier and I would have typed a much easier to read, less "intelligent" sentence with simpler words like "removed" instead of "scrapped", for you to understand.

Obviously my comment about  "Just like Evan said he'd be implementing Ring Signatures back in May-June of 2014, then it got totally scrapped? was in response to your comment of, "Evan is known for making big moves quite swiftly. ".

Honestly, wow...

How is it a "big move" when technical options are being considered and then later rejected?

Are you saying DASH is not divisible by 100,000,000?

[illodin]

short of DASH abandoning the bitcoin codebase and adopting a more opaque block chain.

Might happen, who knows. Evan is known for making big moves quite swiftly.

Just like Evan said he'd be implementing Ring Signatures back in May-June of 2014, then it got totally scrapped?

You're slightly odd character I must say. I can't put my finger on it, but you often seem to ask questions I don't quite understand. It's like you're referring to something I haven't said. Is it the language barrier? Or were you just dropped on your head one time too many as a child?

Quick, attack the attacker!

Discuss the attacker's personality and biography!  Change the topic away from Even's scrapped promise to implement ring signatures!

Just like XMR and XCN weren't launched with highly unoptimized miners to allow insiders to mine with unfair hashrates?

See?

Extremely big difference. At that time, it was Thankful_for_today that was the developer, so the current Monero devs had nothing to do with that. Even then, Monero's "paramters"(Block reward/Coin supply), were not changed at all, unlike Dash's which as you know got demolished.

Besides that, if one has the knowledge and skill, they can create optimized miners for themselves for any cryptocurrency, including Bitcoin. ASIC's, GPU's, hello?

You really don't get the point do you. I guess I expected too much intelligence from you, sorry for assuming. Honestly, wow...

[illodin]

I don't like liars, so please don't lie, this is where Evan said with surety that he was going to implement Ring Signatures in Dash, so it was not a consideration as you just said.

And I have nothing against autistic people, but they can get tiring sometimes. Usually I'm very patient but enough is enough.

[Joshuar]

I don't like liars, so please don't lie, this is where Evan said with surety that he was going to implement Ring Signatures in Dash, so it was not a consideration as you just said.

And I have nothing against autistic people, but they can get tiring sometimes. Usually I'm very patient but enough is enough.

So now you resort to plain ole' trolling, coupled with the blatant lie you've just told, I hope anyone else watching this now knows to take whatever you say with a grain of salt, as you've proved yourself a troll and a liar. Good job.

My point was that these issues are unresolvable

I'm not sure about that.

short of DASH abandoning the bitcoin codebase and adopting a more opaque block chain.

Might happen, who knows. Evan is known for making big moves quite swiftly.

Just like Evan said he'd be implementing Ring Signatures back in May-June of 2014, then it got totally scrapped?

You're slightly odd character I must say. I can't put my finger on it, but you often seem to ask questions I don't quite understand. It's like you're referring to something I haven't said. Is it the language barrier? Or were you just dropped on your head one time too many as a child?

I expected too much intelligence from you, sorry for assuming. If you're unable to correlate things together, then you should have just told me earlier and I would have typed a much easier to read, less "intelligent" sentence with simpler words like "removed" instead of "scrapped", for you to understand.

Obviously my comment about  "Just like Evan said he'd be implementing Ring Signatures back in May-June of 2014, then it got totally scrapped? was in response to your comment of, "Evan is known for making big moves quite swiftly. ".

Honestly, wow...

How is it a "big move" when technical options are being considered and then later rejected?

Are you saying DASH is not divisible by 100,000,000?

Are you trying to troll? Are we talking about denominations?

I don't like liars, so please don't lie, this is where Evan said with surety that he was going to implement Ring Signatures in Dash, so it was not a consideration as you just said. It was rejected yes, quite possibly because it would have been very difficult to implement it into Darkcoin even though it offers superior anonymity, and he was already using coinjoin, so he decided to just stick with it.

Ring signatures are going to be implemented in V2. I will begin development immediately after I opensource V1.

[illodin]

I don't like liars, so please don't lie, this is where Evan said with surety that he was going to implement Ring Signatures in Dash, so it was not a consideration as you just said.

And I have nothing against autistic people, but they can get tiring sometimes. Usually I'm very patient but enough is enough.

So now you resort to plain ole' trolling, coupled with the blatant lie you've just told, I hope anyone else watching this now knows to take whatever you say with a grain of salt, as you've proved yourself a troll and a liar. Good job.

No, I've just applied your argumentation strategy against yourself. But you're just too stupid to even realize. How does it feel, Mr. Scratched Record #1?

[xxxgoodgirls]

it's implementation of gmaxwell's coinjoin is snotty at best

Can you explain the differences between gmaxwell's coinjoin and Darkcoin's mixing, thanks.

Hi, can you please?

Based on K. Atlas's review only the initial prototype of Darksend was based on gmaxwell's conjoin.
Since RC4 Darksend+is still based on the CoinJoin protocol, but improves user convenience by turning the mixing process into a background, passive (but still online) process. This approach can be described as ahead-of-time (AOT) mixing, as opposed to the customary just-in-time (JIT) mixing typical of most CoinJoin implementations today.
And, as far as I know, the traditional Coinjoin relies on a centralized unity, whilst Dash's mixing relies on p2p nodes (MNs).
So saying darksend is a broken coinjoin implementation is a false statement, correct me if I am wrong.

[Joshuar]

I don't like liars, so please don't lie, this is where Evan said with surety that he was going to implement Ring Signatures in Dash, so it was not a consideration as you just said.

And I have nothing against autistic people, but they can get tiring sometimes. Usually I'm very patient but enough is enough.

So now you resort to plain ole' trolling, coupled with the blatant lie you've just told, I hope anyone else watching this now knows to take whatever you say with a grain of salt, as you've proved yourself a troll and a liar. Good job.

No, I've just applied your argumentation strategy against yourself. But you're just too stupid to even realize. How does it feel, Mr. Scratched Record #1?

Am I missing something? Do you even make any sense right now? Lol?

Wait, so let me get this straight. You've said I was a "slightly odd character" for replying to your post about how Evan quickly gets things done by saying he didn't implement Ring Signatures, which he said he was basically going to quickly do after V1 Darksend, to which I responded by saying you can't put 2+2 together(You weren't able to tell what I was even referring to when I mentioned Evan's certainty of implementing Ring Signatures), so you must have some kind of deficiency of sorts, or you're trolling, either one.

I just love how people like you argue themselves down to the ground even when you're not making any sense and when you know you're wrong, it's interesting to watch.

[Johnny Mnemonic]

Still waiting for Manamina's reply to my previous argument...

But there are no coins, just balances on addresses. The darksend process removes any association between two given addresses. That's where the fungibility comes from and that's the question I asked. Where is the 'taint' you talk about?

Let me rephrase: Due to the nature of a transparent blockchain, there will always be associations with addresses, even if your concerned association is eliminated. People won't mix because they don't think they need to, or maybe they aren't aware of some illicit trade 80 transactions up-chain. Because of this, we will still see increasing use of blockchain analysis and increasing discrimination against transactors that leads to fungibility issues. The only way to eliminate this concern is through an entirely opaque block chain.

For me, fit-for-purpose would mean working, useful services (instant transactions, privacy, 2FA etc) which are secure against any realistic attack (i.e. not guv/TLA).

Okay. Then in my opinion, yes, it's probably fit for purpose right now. But as demand for blockchain analysis services increases, major fungibility issues will start to pop up. Of course this won't be provable until it actually happens.

[illodin]

Btw Joshuar, while you're still full of energy, could you please answer my question.

Wait, what does Dash do again? Oh yea, I have to rely on others to setup masternodes in order to even use the "anonymity" in the first place. I also have to trust that all the masternodes are not compromised since most of them are hosted on centralized servers online, as there's still a chance of deanonymizing a transaction. Yippee.

Since you're so concerned about masternodes "being compromised", can you explain what is exactly the most important data that the attacker (realistically, only the NSA) would collect?

[Joshuar]

Btw Joshuar, while you're still full of energy, could you please answer my question.

Wait, what does Dash do again? Oh yea, I have to rely on others to setup masternodes in order to even use the "anonymity" in the first place. I also have to trust that all the masternodes are not compromised since most of them are hosted on centralized servers online, as there's still a chance of deanonymizing a transaction. Yippee.

Since you're so concerned about masternodes "being compromised", can you explain what is exactly the most important data that the attacker (realistically, only the NSA) would collect?

Then there's "instant transactions", which as others showed was taken from Green Addresses, a system already available with Bitcoin.

If you read what GreenAddress actually is, you will see they are not at all the same. It can never be used from personal wallets, as the recipient has to trust the previously published sending address not to double spend.

This is just one more misunderstanding on what Darkcoin/DASH is in addition to uniform denominations, change handling, and whether masternodes actually send and receive coins.

Wait, what does Dash do again? Oh yea, I have to rely on others to setup masternodes in order to even use the "anonymity" in the first place. I also have to trust that all the masternodes are not compromised since most of them are hosted on centralized servers online, as there's still a chance of deanonymizing a transaction. Yippee.

Wait, what has your reply to do with the misunderstandings I mentioned? Oh yea, nothing. It's just your need to regurgitate the same old that's been discussed to death already.

Since you're so concerned about masternodes "being compromised", can you explain what is exactly the most important data that the attacker (realistically, only the NSA) would collect?

Huh? You replied that Green Addresses required a level of trust, to which I replied that Dash's entire masternode system requires a level of trust, get it? It's not even the NSA, it's much more simpler than that. Masternodes are hosted on centralized servers, the hosting providers of such servers technically "own the masternode". Dash's entire masternode system is centralized. Even your former lead developer admitted it...Don't let investments clog your reasoning.

To add to that, there's still a chance to deanonymize Darksend transactions by controlling a large amount of nodes. I don't know how you're just incapable of accepting the fact that Masternodes by nature are centralized, since they are hosted on centralized software. What exactly do you not understand.

And here's this, make sure and zoom in your computer screen on the part where your own developer said that Dash/Darkcoin was centralized.

"i left because i disagree darkcoin or however it will be called next year is not a decentralized entity" - Former Dash/Darkcoin developer

I get the feeling this thread has just about run it's course:

1. Lots of criticism, both technical and non-technical of DASH from the outset
2. Reasonable responses from myself, illodin and others
3. DASH critics fail to follow-up on critical technical points
4. Critics regurgitate old arguments, add very little new information and still fail to follow up on critical technical points
5. GOTO 2

I'm still ready to be persuaded that DASH is fatally flawed as the critics make out.

If we continue as above, that speaks volumes imo.

1) Dash's code causes inevitable centralization and is not as fungible as Ring Signatures, it's as simple as that
2) It's likely that you're trying to use Reverse Psychology(Aka trolling) by acting "nice"(Pretty easy to see through when one actually reads your posts thoroughly), because others have constantly corrected you on what you've said, yet on every new page you bring up the same incorrect statements/questions in an attempt to manipulate/push Dash to the forefront.
3) Dash's entire architecture has been "decimated"/torn to pieces code wise, it's external masternode system brings in centralization and other attack vectors since they are hosted on centralized servers online and unwisely provide it's most important features through those external masternodes(Also, Bitcoin already does this, no point in even using Dash)
4) Again, you do the same, you're extremely hypocritical. Please reread this thread or even have a friend do it for you, maybe then you'd see just how many times you've been corrected.

And to add further

5) The entire Dash/Darkcoin cryptocurrecy project has been recently deemed a centralized joke by it's former developer vertoe, that speaks volumes
6) Dash/Darkcoin had a dishonest/scam instamine that makes Auroracoin's premine look like the holy grail.

etc.

[iCEBREAKER]

short of DASH abandoning the bitcoin codebase and adopting a more opaque block chain.

Might happen, who knows. Evan is known for making big moves quite swiftly.

Just like Evan said he'd be implementing Ring Signatures back in May-June of 2014, then it got totally scrapped?

You're slightly odd character I must say. I can't put my finger on it, but you often seem to ask questions I don't quite understand. It's like you're referring to something I haven't said. Is it the language barrier? Or were you just dropped on your head one time too many as a child?

Quick, attack the attacker!

Discuss the attacker's personality and biography!  Change the topic away from Even's scrapped promise to implement ring signatures!

Just like XMR and XCN weren't launched with highly unoptimized miners to allow insiders to mine with unfair hashrates?

See?

No, still wrong.  But at least you're now doing better than discussing personalities and biographies.

XMR's block reward schedule has never changed, and actual emission matches exactly the software spec.

Dark OTOH, changed its block reward schedule twice and no spec which accounts for actual emission exists. 

Hell, Evan can still unilaterally chance those constants.  And you not only accept that, but try to spin it as a Good Thing.

Once a coin launches, all's fair in love and mining.

But Dark's dev played games with, and/or bungled, his coin's launch.  So instead of C/ASM/OCL nerds like DGA being properly rewarded for their optimizations, insider traders like Masternode reaped the benefits of the bizarre, inexplicably huge early block rewards.

[illodin]

I don't like liars, so please don't lie, this is where Evan said with surety that he was going to implement Ring Signatures in Dash, so it was not a consideration as you just said.

And I have nothing against autistic people, but they can get tiring sometimes. Usually I'm very patient but enough is enough.

So now you resort to plain ole' trolling, coupled with the blatant lie you've just told, I hope anyone else watching this now knows to take whatever you say with a grain of salt, as you've proved yourself a troll and a liar. Good job.

No, I've just applied your argumentation strategy against yourself. But you're just too stupid to even realize. How does it feel, Mr. Scratched Record #1?

Am I missing something? Do you even make any sense right now? Lol?

Wait, so let me get this straight. You've said I was a "slightly odd character" for replying to your post about how Evan quickly gets things done by saying he didn't implement Ring Signatures, which he said he was basically going to quickly do after V1 Darksend, to which I responded by saying you can't put 2+2 together(You weren't able to tell what I was even referring to when I mentioned Evan's certainty of implementing Ring Signatures), so you must have some kind of deficiency of sorts, or you're trolling, either one.

I just love how people like you argue themselves down to the ground even when you're not making any sense and when you know you're wrong, it's interesting to watch.

Well, I waited, and you didn't get it straight. It's pretty clear for anyone who has been reading your posts for a while there's something wrong with you. It's not just that one post, and you thinking (or claiming, doesn't really matter which) it was just proves my point.

[Joshuar]

I don't like liars, so please don't lie, this is where Evan said with surety that he was going to implement Ring Signatures in Dash, so it was not a consideration as you just said.

And I have nothing against autistic people, but they can get tiring sometimes. Usually I'm very patient but enough is enough.

So now you resort to plain ole' trolling, coupled with the blatant lie you've just told, I hope anyone else watching this now knows to take whatever you say with a grain of salt, as you've proved yourself a troll and a liar. Good job.

No, I've just applied your argumentation strategy against yourself. But you're just too stupid to even realize. How does it feel, Mr. Scratched Record #1?

Am I missing something? Do you even make any sense right now? Lol?

Wait, so let me get this straight. You've said I was a "slightly odd character" for replying to your post about how Evan quickly gets things done by saying he didn't implement Ring Signatures, which he said he was basically going to quickly do after V1 Darksend, to which I responded by saying you can't put 2+2 together(You weren't able to tell what I was even referring to when I mentioned Evan's certainty of implementing Ring Signatures), so you must have some kind of deficiency of sorts, or you're trolling, either one.

I just love how people like you argue themselves down to the ground even when you're not making any sense and when you know you're wrong, it's interesting to watch.

Well, I waited, and you didn't get it straight. It's pretty clear for anyone who has been reading your posts for a while there's something wrong with you. It's not just that one post, and you thinking (or claiming, doesn't really matter which) it was just proves my point.

Ok you're a troll. You've yet to respond logically to my statements and prefer choose to make ambiguous sentences. Until you stop trolling and type in proper english what you have to say, I'm done here. Don't expect me to try and deduct the garbage behind your reasoning, this isn't a game of chess, kid.