XMR vs DRK

[megges]

The concept of changing the block reward must be a complex one. It is not a change when Bitcoin goes from 50 to 25 to 12.5 because that was all stated up front. Same with the <1% inflation block reward in Monero. Won't happen for 7-8 more years or so, and stated up front.

You have to argue this with Joshuar not with me,
He was the one who told us that Two things that according to Satoshi should never be touched - NEVER, he said, so its irrelevant if it would be changed in 5 or 10 years. Or it was told upfront.

I guess we better put bitcoin back to 50 BTC/block then. Works for me that I'll get double of everything I mined in late 2013 and 2014. Who knew!

I don't know if Joshuars want's to say that, but perhaps it was.

Im not in that boat.

ps: i know i should troll in here, but it seems i could not resist to add something valuable sry - I think the point which Joshuar was trying to make is that the formular which is in the reference bitcoin client, should have been never changed, at least thats what i think would make sense. Thats why he made the point against DASH, because DASH changed it in the code, after the code was published and used. (Bitcoin code never changed - at least not the things that should never been touched according to Joshuar - so BTC seems to be fine). But DASH made somehting silly in his mind - and in the end that seems to be the same with XMR if they'll do what OP said and change the formular later (even if it was stated there, it was not in the code).

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[generalizethis]

The concept of changing the block reward must be a complex one. It is not a change when Bitcoin goes from 50 to 25 to 12.5 because that was all stated up front. Same with the <1% inflation block reward in Monero. Won't happen for 7-8 more years or so, and stated up front.

You have to argue this with Joshuar not with me,
He was the one who told us that Two things that according to Satoshi should never be touched - NEVER, he said, so its irrelevant if it would be changed in 5 or 10 years. Or it was told upfront.

It's Joshuar's argument and you don't agree with it--so...

Invalidating Joshuar's argument doesn't validate x-dark-dash coin anymore than validating Joshuar's argument invalidate monero. So...

Satoshi isn't sacrosanct. So...

thanks for adding nothing

?? Reading is not that easy as it seems ... i don't invalidated his argument - i just tried to follow the herd ... which seems to be the trolls in here.
Also i did say nothing about DRK in my comment. Please try reading it again.

I thought adding nothing was the intend of this thread or why did i read about 100 times the same, isn't the thread for exactly that?

Grammar is not as easy as it seems. Don't play stupid (though you are good at it), saying you are playing troll doesn't excuse you for acting like one anymore than acting rapey excuses you from rape. Why even make a comment you grant yourself is adding nothing of value to the discussion? And why try to invalidate my comment by insisting I have a reading deficiency while at the same time showing that you have a grammar deficiency? Your comment, as you said, added no value and was just ex-daus-troll-machina, so why even bother typing it unless you thought on some primitive level you could cause a rift between monerians or fool some casual reader with cheap debate tricks? 

[megges]

The concept of changing the block reward must be a complex one. It is not a change when Bitcoin goes from 50 to 25 to 12.5 because that was all stated up front. Same with the <1% inflation block reward in Monero. Won't happen for 7-8 more years or so, and stated up front.

You have to argue this with Joshuar not with me,
He was the one who told us that Two things that according to Satoshi should never be touched - NEVER, he said, so its irrelevant if it would be changed in 5 or 10 years. Or it was told upfront.

It's Joshuar's argument and you don't agree with it--so...

Invalidating Joshuar's argument doesn't validate x-dark-dash coin anymore than validating Joshuar's argument invalidate monero. So...

Satoshi isn't sacrosanct. So...

thanks for adding nothing

?? Reading is not that easy as it seems ... i don't invalidated his argument - i just tried to follow the herd ... which seems to be the trolls in here.
Also i did say nothing about DRK in my comment. Please try reading it again.

I thought adding nothing was the intend of this thread or why did i read about 100 times the same, isn't the thread for exactly that?

Grammar is not as easy as it seems. Don't play stupid (though you are good at it), saying you are playing troll doesn't excuse you for acting like one anymore than acting rapey excuses you from rape. Why even make a comment you grant yourself is adding nothing of value to the discussion? And why try to invalidate my comment by insisting I have a reading deficiency while at the same time showing that you have a grammar deficiency? Your comment, as you said, added no value and was just ex-daus-troll-machina, so why even bother typing it unless you thought on some primitive level you could cause a rift between monerians or fool some casual reader with cheap debate tricks? 

You could always check my posting history, i tried adding points to this topic, and i did, i had nice and valid discussions with XMR devs in here, i sure they appraciated them, but then i realized for the most in here its not about adding value, its just about trolling, so i decided to join the common sence in here - which is clearly trolling.
(Because i hate it to be an outsider)

I try to get not biased in my trolling for the DASH side or even the XMR side, i just troll like everyone else, waiting for OP to make what he said - delete the trolling posts (at least he told us thats why this thread is self moderated) - after that perhaps i will add more value in here, but until than its clearly a troll place.

PS: Sry about grammer mistakes, im not nativ english Hope that doesn't invalidate my trolling

[smooth]

PS: Sry about grammer mistakes, im not nativ english Hope that doesn't invalidate my trolling

Okay that explains thing's a bit, and let's not derail the thread with a big argument over it. When people (including satoshi, and Joshuar) say that the block reward should not be changed what is clearly meant by that is the original parameters describing the block reward should not be changed. That could be a certain formula, a table, a fixed number, etc. that is clearly explained up front, and those parameters should not change. It does not mean that the specific number should never change.

[Macno]

Je suis Retarded Joe 

Really interesting discussion. I keep liking DASH, but I like XMR much more than before the thread started.

[Joshuar]

Actually people behind Monero are not driven by greed, rotten smelly greed

I don't see what that has to do with my comment, the quote i posted from Joshuar said (in my own words) if you change the blockreward of a coin, its defecated , and then, read the announce of monero, there it tells you that XMR wants perhaps to change the blockreward in the future, so if Joshuar is thinking that this could defecat a coin, he obv should not invest in Monero, because they will perhaps do that in the future like stated in the announce topic.

So whats that all about greed??? - nothing to do with that

PS: Yes i have no intend to bring anything valueable to this discussion thread, like all the other trolls in here, thats why i called my post myself a troll posting - it just seems that thats the intend of this thread, so i gave up explaining things in here, and just joined the majority in here.

No no no, that's not what was said/meant, nor what Satoshi said. The block reward in Monero/Bitcoin was designed since the inception of the coin, it naturally gets smaller as time progresses, was designed that way(Math), and has never been tampered with after launch.

I mean when you actually change it manually like what happened in Dash where it was cut by the developer after the instamine. It's things like that should never happen and was what Satoshi referred to.

[wpalczynski]

Check out the Monero richlist.

http://moneroblocks.eu/richlist

[Joshuar]

Check out the Monero richlist.

http://moneroblocks.eu/richlist

Haha, beautiful page.

[majamina]

Let us say I face an attack that will work against 1 round of Darksend but will fail against 2 rounds of Darksend. This could be the Sybil example I quoted above. If the attacker has also partially compromised the masternode network, then I need a sequence of 2 un-compromised Darksend rounds for protection from this attack. In this example sequence 1 will not work

1) Honest Malicious Honest Malicious Honest Malicious

but sequence 2 will work

2) Malicious Honest Honest Malicious Malicious Honest

because of the bold part. So it is the probability of the sequence of n honest masternodes in the chain that matters, and this is much lower than the probability of a single honest masternode in the chain.

OK I've considered this and I'm not sure it's a fair representation of how Darksend works.

1 round of Darksend with blinding uses 20 random masternodes. With more than 1 round, round 2 uses a different set of 20 masternodes and so on, resulting in the astronomical probabilities.

Your example is showing 6 MNs and 50% of them are malicious, but we were talking about 15% of the network being compromised. Therefore only 3 of 20 nodes are likely to be malicious and your sequence doesn't work.

Forgive me if I've misunderstood your example.

Also, I'm not sure we have the full picture on masternode blinding here. See vague description from Evan below.


Masternode Blinding

Recently a paper by 3 researches at Saarland University came out describing a new technique, while there are some serious problems with the approach they take, the concept of blinding the users they use is novel. In CoinShuffle, each output is sent to the next peer in a circle, one at a time. The new peer adds an output, shuffles and then sends the list again. We can do this and actually improve upon it.

To implement blinding, each user would connect to one completely random masternode and say "Send masternode X this output/value for mix N" and pass a single output. That output would be passed to the leading masternode. It would take access to all masternodes used to know who did what, which is as solid as M rounds mathematically (M = number of outputs). This is great because all users can submit all inputs at once. So it's super fast compared to CoinShuffle and even more secure.

[qvan]

Check out the Monero richlist.

http://moneroblocks.eu/richlist

lol! perfect

that's why darkcoin have close minded day traders, they are constantly analyzing the blockchain 

[BlockaFett]

this should be a warning to all XMR investors: http://web.archive.org/web/20141106091836/http://www.cryptobang.com/2014/10/05/what-nsa-created-cryptonote-for/

NSA being well known for building complex vulnerabilities into systems that can then be exploited to provide backdoors...if the designer of your platform has these intentions there is no way to know what all the vulnerabilities can be.  Look at the recent Heartbleed 'bug' that went on for at least 2 years with NSA using it...http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-04-11/nsa-said-to-have-used-heartbleed-bug-exposing-consumers

No one in the market is going to touch a coin that is built on code that had NSA design involvement, especially people seeking anonymity.

Coupled with the fact core devs 'smooth' and 'fluffy' spout about honesty and integrity then spend a large amount of time trolling the competition, and asking for donations to 'speed up', (NTM all volume through Poloniex...) there are a lot of red flags IMO.

...

[Vispicious]

this should be a warning to all XMR investors: http://web.archive.org/web/20141106091836/http://www.cryptobang.com/2014/10/05/what-nsa-created-cryptonote-for/

NSA being well known for building complex vulnerabilities into systems that can then be exploited to provide backdoors...if the designer of your platform has these intentions there is no way to know what all the vulnerabilities can be.  Look at the recent Heartbleed 'bug' that went on for at least 2 years with NSA using it...http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-04-11/nsa-said-to-have-used-heartbleed-bug-exposing-consumers

No one in the market is going to touch a coin that is built on code that had NSA design involvement, especially people seeking anonymity.

Coupled with the fact core devs 'smooth' and 'fluffy' spout about honesty and integrity then spend a large amount of time trolling the competition, and asking for donations to 'speed up', (NTM all volume through Poloniex...) there are a lot of red flags IMO.

...

OMG AND THE NSA CREATED BITCOIN TOO. **PUTS TINFOIL HAT ON**

http://bitcoinomics.net/did-the-nsa-design-bitcoin-a-look-at-whats-known/ - DID THE NSA DESIGN BITCOIN? A LOOK AT WHAT’S KNOWN
https://realcurrencies.wordpress.com/2013/06/21/is-the-national-security-agency-behind-bitcoin/ - Is the NSA behind Bitcoin?
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1luwf8/is_satoshi_nakamoto_the_nsa/ - Is satoshi nakamoto the NSA?
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/nsa-bitcoin-1996/ - Did the NSA outline Bitcoin in 1996?
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/bitcoin-suspected-be-nsa-cia-project-1460439 - Bitcoin Conspiracy theory alleges virtual currency is NSA project

[smooth]

this should be a warning to all XMR investors: http://web.archive.org/web/20141106091836/http://www.cryptobang.com/2014/10/05/what-nsa-created-cryptonote-for/

NSA being well known for building complex vulnerabilities into systems that can then be exploited to provide backdoors...if the designer of your platform has these intentions there is no way to know what all the vulnerabilities can be.  Look at the recent Heartbleed 'bug' that went on for at least 2 years with NSA using it...http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-04-11/nsa-said-to-have-used-heartbleed-bug-exposing-consumers

No one in the market is going to touch a coin that is built on code that had NSA design involvement, especially people seeking anonymity.

Coupled with the fact core devs 'smooth' and 'fluffy' spout about honesty and integrity then spend a large amount of time trolling the competition, and asking for donations to 'speed up', (NTM all volume through Poloniex...) there are a lot of red flags IMO.

...

Find a source for that nsa story besides 'cryptobang' where any troller can pay 1 btc to have some dumb story written.

In fact the crypto code in monero comes from DJB the renowned cryptographer who is as close to a mortal enemy of the NSA as you will ever find.

The story is ridiculous. It's good trollbait though. If anyone cites it we know they are trolling and not doing any actual research.

[BlockaFett]

this should be a warning to all XMR investors: http://web.archive.org/web/20141106091836/http://www.cryptobang.com/2014/10/05/what-nsa-created-cryptonote-for/

NSA being well known for building complex vulnerabilities into systems that can then be exploited to provide backdoors...if the designer of your platform has these intentions there is no way to know what all the vulnerabilities can be.  Look at the recent Heartbleed 'bug' that went on for at least 2 years with NSA using it...http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-04-11/nsa-said-to-have-used-heartbleed-bug-exposing-consumers

No one in the market is going to touch a coin that is built on code that had NSA design involvement, especially people seeking anonymity.

Coupled with the fact core devs 'smooth' and 'fluffy' spout about honesty and integrity then spend a large amount of time trolling the competition, and asking for donations to 'speed up', (NTM all volume through Poloniex...) there are a lot of red flags IMO.

...

Find a source for that nsa story besides 'cryptobang' where any troller can pay 1 btc to have some dumb story written.

In fact the crypto code in monero comes from DJB the renowned cryptographer who is as close to a mortal enemy of the NSA as you will ever find.

The story is ridiculous. It's good trollbait though. If anyone cites it we know they are trolling and not doing any actual research.

i can see why you don't like that 'source' and are asking me to find a new one:

"It is likely that CN developers deliberately neglected the Bernstein’s rationale in order to make the backdoor possible. By inferring malice aforethought on the CN developer’s part we may as well call them crooks. The vulnerability is exploited by allowing to whoever has the knowledge to recover users’ private keys thereby de-anonymizing them through ring signature and key image compromisation. "

[Vispicious]

you wanna know whats not a conspiracy theory though and what i just found out?!

THIS

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=560138.0 - SCAM DASH instamine 2 millions DRKs (50% of darkcoin in circulation)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=979231.0 - The truth about DASH's instamine
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=559028.0 - DASH big scam? Let's take a closer look
http://www.reddit.com/r/DRKCoin/comments/22jd9d/darkcoin_hate/ - I'm in dash and that choice I should have researched further because I didn't know about the instamine. Had I known, I would never have put into the coin in the first place

http://altcoins.com/scamcoins - Dash
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=995710.0 - Darkcoin AKA DASH, the biggest ongoing scam in Crypto
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=754521.0 - The Dash Scam

[smooth]

this should be a warning to all XMR investors: http://web.archive.org/web/20141106091836/http://www.cryptobang.com/2014/10/05/what-nsa-created-cryptonote-for/

NSA being well known for building complex vulnerabilities into systems that can then be exploited to provide backdoors...if the designer of your platform has these intentions there is no way to know what all the vulnerabilities can be.  Look at the recent Heartbleed 'bug' that went on for at least 2 years with NSA using it...http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-04-11/nsa-said-to-have-used-heartbleed-bug-exposing-consumers

No one in the market is going to touch a coin that is built on code that had NSA design involvement, especially people seeking anonymity.

Coupled with the fact core devs 'smooth' and 'fluffy' spout about honesty and integrity then spend a large amount of time trolling the competition, and asking for donations to 'speed up', (NTM all volume through Poloniex...) there are a lot of red flags IMO.

...

Find a source for that nsa story besides 'cryptobang' where any troller can pay 1 btc to have some dumb story written.

In fact the crypto code in monero comes from DJB the renowned cryptographer who is as close to a mortal enemy of the NSA as you will ever find.

The story is ridiculous. It's good trollbait though. If anyone cites it we know they are trolling and not doing any actual research.

i can see why you don't like that 'source' and are asking me to find a new one:

"It is likely that CN developers deliberately neglected the Bernstein’s rationale in order to make the backdoor possible. By inferring malice aforethought on the CN developer’s part we may as well call them crooks. The vulnerability is exploited by allowing to whoever has the knowledge to recover users’ private keys thereby de-anonymizing them through ring signature and key image compromisation. "

What language is that even?

A bunch of nonsense but I guess that's what you get for 1 btc

[Anon136]

this should be a warning to all XMR investors: http://web.archive.org/web/20141106091836/http://www.cryptobang.com/2014/10/05/what-nsa-created-cryptonote-for/

NSA being well known for building complex vulnerabilities into systems that can then be exploited to provide backdoors...if the designer of your platform has these intentions there is no way to know what all the vulnerabilities can be.  Look at the recent Heartbleed 'bug' that went on for at least 2 years with NSA using it...http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-04-11/nsa-said-to-have-used-heartbleed-bug-exposing-consumers

No one in the market is going to touch a coin that is built on code that had NSA design involvement, especially people seeking anonymity.

Coupled with the fact core devs 'smooth' and 'fluffy' spout about honesty and integrity then spend a large amount of time trolling the competition, and asking for donations to 'speed up', (NTM all volume through Poloniex...) there are a lot of red flags IMO.

...

One thing that helps to make this unlikely, is that monero is forked from a scam. If the nsa was behind it than the scam would have been far more clever than the scam that was bytecoin. I.E. the scam would have been things like what you are talking about, clever backdoors and what not. And they wouldnt have risked hurting the adoption of a crypto that had subtle back doors engineered into it by creating a fake blockchain and spoofing dates on pdf's and what not.

You could say well yea but they are just playing chess on another level and anticipated that people would make the argument i just made, but thats really really getting into tin foil hat territory. Even for people like us who tend to be relatively inclined to believe in conspiracies.

[generalizethis]

this should be a warning to all XMR investors: http://web.archive.org/web/20141106091836/http://www.cryptobang.com/2014/10/05/what-nsa-created-cryptonote-for/

NSA being well known for building complex vulnerabilities into systems that can then be exploited to provide backdoors...if the designer of your platform has these intentions there is no way to know what all the vulnerabilities can be.  Look at the recent Heartbleed 'bug' that went on for at least 2 years with NSA using it...http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-04-11/nsa-said-to-have-used-heartbleed-bug-exposing-consumers

No one in the market is going to touch a coin that is built on code that had NSA design involvement, especially people seeking anonymity.

Coupled with the fact core devs 'smooth' and 'fluffy' spout about honesty and integrity then spend a large amount of time trolling the competition, and asking for donations to 'speed up', (NTM all volume through Poloniex...) there are a lot of red flags IMO.

...

Find a source for that nsa story besides 'cryptobang' where any troller can pay 1 btc to have some dumb story written.

In fact the crypto code in monero comes from DJB the renowned cryptographer who is as close to a mortal enemy of the NSA as you will ever find.

The story is ridiculous. It's good trollbait though. If anyone cites it we know they are trolling and not doing any actual research.

i can see why you don't like that 'source' and are asking me to find a new one:

"It is likely that CN developers deliberately neglected the Bernstein’s rationale in order to make the backdoor possible. By inferring malice aforethought on the CN developer’s part we may as well call them crooks. The vulnerability is exploited by allowing to whoever has the knowledge to recover users’ private keys thereby de-anonymizing them through ring signature and key image compromisation. "

What language is that even?

A bunch of nonsense but I guess that's what you get for 1 btc

Afore I forget, I think the Bernstein bears wrote the article, but to whoever it was, they certainly were compromisationed.

Seriously, did Eteque from Polo write this?

[Johnny Mnemonic]

Nicolas van Saberhagen is a rare name that is hardly ever mentioned anywhere on the Internet. An attentive reader could pick out letters NSA in the name.....

Open and shut case!

The NSA intentionally created an altcoin scam in a sea of altcoin scams KNOWING a group of unpaid devs would eventually fork the project and fix everything but the super decret back-door code, and spend the next X years polishing the code base (but still not noticing the secret back door code) and popularizing the currency in their free time.

Them NSA folk are a clever bunch.

[coinits]

And then they sell a masternode - but to whom? An alphabet agency? Maybe not this time. Who knows? Sooner or later..right?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=826901.msg10898755#msg10898755