XMR vs DRK

[Shrikez]

Oh the 'instamine', this has been done to death and is very boring, but the net result appears to be that the dev 'might' have something like 300k coins. Certainly a lot less coins than Satoshi has. Anyway, please let's not go there again, it's been done to death.

And there is a reason it has been done to death... why not simply re-launch... should be easily possible the first 48h if you made an honest mistake... and the Satoshi defense is ridicolous... as far as i know the block rewards + reductions parameters never have been changed unlike DRK/Dash...

you're doing it to death some more....i'm not getting into this, it's been done to death

So with DRK you can use it just the same as BTC, traditional PoW, but you can also use Darksend which is an improvement on Bitcoin's trusted/centralised mixers. You seem to like BTC but hate DRK, when DRK _IS BTC with some nice features on top.

The bolded part is where you get it wrong. A currency is much more than its technical part. Although BTC has many drawbacks which some altcoins eliminate to various degrees it has always remained true to its social contract. You can trust that it'll do what's stated on the box.

DRK does the same things, and some other things....explain your point better....

Look, I appreciate your demeanor in this confrontation between the two currencies.

But after reading your above replies I think me trying to explain my point about trust in a currency better is a futile exercise as you simply don't want to acknowledge that fundamental problem with the early DRK days. Of course the current holders don't care, most of them profited directly or indirectly of that event. Either by being part of the selected few during the 'faulty' blocks or by buying big amounts for cheap early on.

Good for them but not good for the long term credibility. I won't discuss this point any further, no worries. Just like in life most of the times it has to hurt before it is understood.

This argument will come back and it will hurt when it's time for the big numbers.

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[BlockaFett]

Oh the 'instamine', this has been done to death and is very boring, but the net result appears to be that the dev 'might' have something like 300k coins. Certainly a lot less coins than Satoshi has. Anyway, please let's not go there again, it's been done to death.

And there is a reason it has been done to death... why not simply re-launch... should be easily possible the first 48h if you made an honest mistake... and the Satoshi defense is ridicolous... as far as i know the block rewards + reductions parameters never have been changed unlike DRK/Dash...

you're doing it to death some more....i'm not getting into this, it's been done to death

So with DRK you can use it just the same as BTC, traditional PoW, but you can also use Darksend which is an improvement on Bitcoin's trusted/centralised mixers. You seem to like BTC but hate DRK, when DRK _IS BTC with some nice features on top.

The bolded part is where you get it wrong. A currency is much more than its technical part. Although BTC has many drawbacks which some altcoins eliminate to various degrees it has always remained true to its social contract. You can trust that it'll do what's stated on the box.

DRK does the same things, and some other things....explain your point better....

Look, I appreciate your demeanor in this confrontation between the two currencies.

But after reading your above replies I think me trying to explain my point about trust in a currency better is a futile exercise as you simply don't want to acknowledge that fundamental problem with the early DRK days. Of course the current holders don't care, most of them profited directly or indirectly of that event. Either by being part of the selected few during the 'faulty' blocks or by buying big amounts for cheap early on.

Good for them but not good for the long term credibility. I won't discuss this point any further, no worries. Just like in life most of the times it has to hurt before it is understood.

This argument will come back and it will hurt when it's time for the big numbers.

you don't really care either right? or you started caring within the last 2 weeks when the DRK price started rising or have you been posting this every day for 13 months?

it's such a weak point: <5% of total supply mined on first day on public forum. so what?  That's the best XMR can find?  Thanks for free due diligance and dumping your own coin lol.

and someone said the DRK dev might have 300k DRK.  I sincerely hope he has, because that's about the best motivation a dev can have as long as they are honest (which as the DRK dev has shown through delivering everything he said and in time).

instamine isn't an issue in itself, who owns a large share and what they do with the coins, is.

[majamina]

Look, I appreciate your demeanor in this confrontation between the two currencies.

But after reading your above replies I think me trying to explain my point about trust in a currency better is a futile exercise as you simply don't want to acknowledge that fundamental problem with the early DRK days. Of course the current holders don't care, most of them profited directly or indirectly of that event. Either by being part of the selected few during the 'faulty' blocks or by buying big amounts for cheap early on.

Good for them but not good for the long term credibility. I won't discuss this point any further, no worries. Just like in life most of the times it has to hurt before it is understood.

This argument will come back and it will hurt when it's time for the big numbers.

OK this is a new point in the thread I think. You're saying that when big money comes in DRK will be dismissed because of it's launch problems.

Maybe you're right, but BTC seems to be doing OK despite millions of early mined coins being locked up in a few addresses by persons unknown.

[Joshuar]

What sense is this?

"By the way, there are 2,400 masternode servers for DASH's $26m market cap, while BTC has 6,400 full nodes for a $3.5bn market cap."[/i] - That is very centralized.

How is it 'very centralised'? What are you on about?

Masternodes are hosted on other people's servers mostly, you saying "masternode servers" is a direct attempt to mislead.

it honestly wasn't an attempt to mislead, but I'll change the language if you like....there are 2,400 masternode wotsits for DASH's $26m market cap.

What's this about hosting on someone else's servers? I could host thousands of BTC full nodes on someone else's servers with no collateral. What's your point?

Masternodes undermine the entire point of the blockchain, where activities such as that should be on(Another reason why Coinjoin implemented in the coin is stupid), having such important activities as anonymity being provided by external nodes is just like using mixers for Bitcoins, which makes dash irrelevant.

How do they? DASH has an intact blockchain doing all the same things that BTCs does. How is it 'undermined'...no pun intended presumably?

BTC mixers are operated by trusted third-parties on one or two servers. DASH does mixing on a network of 2,400 servers and nobody on here despite repeated attempts can demonstrate how the transactions can be traced.

Oh the 'instamine', this has been done to death and is very boring, but the net result appears to be that the dev 'might' have something like 300k coins. Certainly a lot less coins than Satoshi has. Anyway, please let's not go there again, it's been done to death."[/i] -  I don't care what's been done away with, 1million coins were instamined the first few hours of Dash's launch, and another million within the next 40 hours. You cannot compare Dash's dishonest, atrocious instamine to Satoshi honestly mining Bitcoin early on.

Those in on the Dash instamine mined over 2million coins, then had the block reward and coin supply cut by more than half, to make those coins instantly much more valuable. That's basically a scam that happened in Dash. That is in no way, shape, or form, comparable to Satoshi's honest mining of bitcoin.

Are you trolling? Or incapable of reading my comments fully? I said Dash is nothing like bitcoin, ethically, morally. I said feature wise, it's just a bitcoin clone with some extra gadgets. That's it.

Nope not trolling. OK if you're saying that DASH is nothing like bitcoin ethically or morally, well fair enough, that's your view and you're entitled to it. I disagree, but there you go....

"How is it 'very centralised'? What are you on about? What's this about hosting on someone else's servers? I could host thousands of BTC full nodes on someone else's servers with no collateral. What's your point?" It's centralized now because of the fact that most, if not all of Dash's masternodes are
It really is done to death, but for what it's worth I have considered the instamine scenario and resolved any ethical questions I had with two key points. 1) DRK was freely available for DUST for months after the launch, so anyone was free to buy/mine cheap coins for a long time.   2 ) Evan offered to airdrop the early mined coins to the community, but this was downvoted.hosted online, on centralized servers, such as Amazon. That means it is rather simple for a government to simply take control of the nodes or take them down. Mining doesn't operate this way, Satoshi invented the method of solo mining, to which is not centralized and to which cannot be taken down by a government. This is one of the reasons why Satoshi probably never implemented masternodes(It's a fairly simple concept) because it poses much more centralization to the network than even concentrated mining pools.



It really is done to death, but for what it's worth I have considered the instamine scenario and resolved any ethical questions I had with two key points. 1) DRK was freely available for DUST for months after the launch, so anyone was free to buy/mine cheap coins for a long time.   2 ) Evan offered to airdrop the early mined coins to the community, but this was downvoted. - I'm not here to argue whether the instamined coins are still being held by the instaminers or were sold/dumped off. I don' care about that, that doesn't matter, What matters is that the instamine happened anyway and nothing was done to stop it, mainly because Evan benefitted greatly from it(Being the first one there and all). The point is that the instamine happened where over 2million Dashes were mined in less than 2 days, and the block reward and coin supply(Two things that according to Satoshi should never be touched) were absolutely defecated on when they were cut by more than half of their original amounts. That's basically a scam and there's no way around it.


How do they? DASH has an intact blockchain doing all the same things that BTCs does. How is it 'undermined'...no pun intended presumably? BTC mixers are operated by trusted third-parties on one or two servers. DASH does mixing on a network of 2,400 servers and nobody on here despite repeated attempts can demonstrate how the transactions can be traced. - It's "undermined", no pun intended, because that's the reason the blockchain was created in the first place, to do away with relying on trust aka someone to set up a masternode so you can mix your coins. Dashes entire masternode concept is based upon trust, which Satoshi did away with through Bitcoin. All Dash is doing is reversing that and heading back to centralization and trust. Bitcoin mixers are operated by third parties, so is Dashes masternodes. Point? In fact, there are already plans in the works of creating a decentralized bitcoin mixer, so that itself would make Dash irrelevant as well, since that mixer would deliver the same amount of anonymity that Dash can/could ever deliver(Still less than ring signatures/zeocash).

[Macno]

Of course the current holders don't care, most of them profited directly or indirectly of that event. Either by being part of the selected few during the 'faulty' blocks or by buying big amounts for cheap early on.

Good for them but not good for the long term credibility. I won't discuss this point any further, no worries. Just like in life most of the times it has to hurt before it is understood.

This argument will come back and it will hurt when it's time for the big numbers.

How is that different to BTC? I did not mine BTC in 2009-2011, nor did I buy it for cents. Neither did I participate in the early mining of DASH, nor did I buy it for almost nothing. Nobody cared about BTC in the early days, as nobody cared about DRK. Still, I know people who call BTC a ponzi and are jealous of the early adopters. Same here.
The only thing "hurting" - right now - is the constant discussion about it, which to me seems pointless and only motivated by the wish to find something to criticise. I get the technical criticism, but not the "instamine". Everyone can read the whole story in the thread, on the Dash FAQ etc. It`s ok if you find it fishy. I don`t. But to suggest it "will come back" and those not caring could be somehow unethical (pumpers, profiteers, scammers) is - unethical.

[majamina]

What sense is this?

"By the way, there are 2,400 masternode servers for DASH's $26m market cap, while BTC has 6,400 full nodes for a $3.5bn market cap."[/i] - That is very centralized.

How is it 'very centralised'? What are you on about?

Masternodes are hosted on other people's servers mostly, you saying "masternode servers" is a direct attempt to mislead.

it honestly wasn't an attempt to mislead, but I'll change the language if you like....there are 2,400 masternode wotsits for DASH's $26m market cap.

What's this about hosting on someone else's servers? I could host thousands of BTC full nodes on someone else's servers with no collateral. What's your point?

Masternodes undermine the entire point of the blockchain, where activities such as that should be on(Another reason why Coinjoin implemented in the coin is stupid), having such important activities as anonymity being provided by external nodes is just like using mixers for Bitcoins, which makes dash irrelevant.

How do they? DASH has an intact blockchain doing all the same things that BTCs does. How is it 'undermined'...no pun intended presumably?

BTC mixers are operated by trusted third-parties on one or two servers. DASH does mixing on a network of 2,400 servers and nobody on here despite repeated attempts can demonstrate how the transactions can be traced.

Oh the 'instamine', this has been done to death and is very boring, but the net result appears to be that the dev 'might' have something like 300k coins. Certainly a lot less coins than Satoshi has. Anyway, please let's not go there again, it's been done to death."[/i] -  I don't care what's been done away with, 1million coins were instamined the first few hours of Dash's launch, and another million within the next 40 hours. You cannot compare Dash's dishonest, atrocious instamine to Satoshi honestly mining Bitcoin early on.

Those in on the Dash instamine mined over 2million coins, then had the block reward and coin supply cut by more than half, to make those coins instantly much more valuable. That's basically a scam that happened in Dash. That is in no way, shape, or form, comparable to Satoshi's honest mining of bitcoin.

Are you trolling? Or incapable of reading my comments fully? I said Dash is nothing like bitcoin, ethically, morally. I said feature wise, it's just a bitcoin clone with some extra gadgets. That's it.

Nope not trolling. OK if you're saying that DASH is nothing like bitcoin ethically or morally, well fair enough, that's your view and you're entitled to it. I disagree, but there you go....

"How is it 'very centralised'? What are you on about? What's this about hosting on someone else's servers? I could host thousands of BTC full nodes on someone else's servers with no collateral. What's your point?" It's centralized now because of the fact that most, if not all of Dash's masternodes are
It really is done to death, but for what it's worth I have considered the instamine scenario and resolved any ethical questions I had with two key points. 1) DRK was freely available for DUST for months after the launch, so anyone was free to buy/mine cheap coins for a long time.   2 ) Evan offered to airdrop the early mined coins to the community, but this was downvoted.hosted online, on centralized servers, such as Amazon. That means it is rather simple for a government to simply take control of the nodes or take them down. Mining doesn't operate this way, Satoshi invented the method of solo mining, to which is not centralized and to which cannot be taken down by a government. This is one of the reasons why Satoshi probably never implemented masternodes(It's a fairly simple concept) because it poses much more centralization to the network than even concentrated mining pools.



It really is done to death, but for what it's worth I have considered the instamine scenario and resolved any ethical questions I had with two key points. 1) DRK was freely available for DUST for months after the launch, so anyone was free to buy/mine cheap coins for a long time.   2 ) Evan offered to airdrop the early mined coins to the community, but this was downvoted. - I'm not here to argue whether the instamined coins are still being held by the instaminers or were sold/dumped off. I don' care about that, I care that the instamine happened anyway and nothing was done to stop it, mainly because Evan benefitted greatly from it(Being the first one there and all). The point is that the instamine happened where over 2million Dashes were mined in less than 2 days, and the block reward and coin supply(Two things that according to Satoshi should never be touched) were absolutely defecated on when they were cut by more than half of their original amounts. That's basically a scam.



How do they? DASH has an intact blockchain doing all the same things that BTCs does. How is it 'undermined'...no pun intended presumably? BTC mixers are operated by trusted third-parties on one or two servers. DASH does mixing on a network of 2,400 servers and nobody on here despite repeated attempts can demonstrate how the transactions can be traced. - It's "undermined", no pun intended, because that's the reason the blockchain was created in the first place, to do away with relying on trust aka someone to set up a masternode so you can mix your coins. Dashes entire masternode concept is based upon trust, which Satoshi did away with through Bitcoin. All Dash is doing is reversing that and heading back to centralization and trust. Bitcoin mixers are operated by third parties, so is Dashes masternodes. Point? In fact, here are already plans in the works of creating a decentralized bitcoin mixer, so that itself would make Dash irrelevant as well, since Dashes masternodes are not trustless.

Sorry dude, your quoting is all over the place - i'm not picking all that apart to reply inline. Also most of your points are covered by debate earlier in this thread....I suggest you read back and look at the parts about the distribution of the masternode network and it's security.....

sorry if that sounds like a cop-out, but format your post better and I'll reply inline.

[Joshuar]

What sense is this?

"By the way, there are 2,400 masternode servers for DASH's $26m market cap, while BTC has 6,400 full nodes for a $3.5bn market cap."[/i] - That is very centralized.

How is it 'very centralised'? What are you on about?

Masternodes are hosted on other people's servers mostly, you saying "masternode servers" is a direct attempt to mislead.

it honestly wasn't an attempt to mislead, but I'll change the language if you like....there are 2,400 masternode wotsits for DASH's $26m market cap.

What's this about hosting on someone else's servers? I could host thousands of BTC full nodes on someone else's servers with no collateral. What's your point?

Masternodes undermine the entire point of the blockchain, where activities such as that should be on(Another reason why Coinjoin implemented in the coin is stupid), having such important activities as anonymity being provided by external nodes is just like using mixers for Bitcoins, which makes dash irrelevant.

How do they? DASH has an intact blockchain doing all the same things that BTCs does. How is it 'undermined'...no pun intended presumably?

BTC mixers are operated by trusted third-parties on one or two servers. DASH does mixing on a network of 2,400 servers and nobody on here despite repeated attempts can demonstrate how the transactions can be traced.

Oh the 'instamine', this has been done to death and is very boring, but the net result appears to be that the dev 'might' have something like 300k coins. Certainly a lot less coins than Satoshi has. Anyway, please let's not go there again, it's been done to death."[/i] -  I don't care what's been done away with, 1million coins were instamined the first few hours of Dash's launch, and another million within the next 40 hours. You cannot compare Dash's dishonest, atrocious instamine to Satoshi honestly mining Bitcoin early on.

Those in on the Dash instamine mined over 2million coins, then had the block reward and coin supply cut by more than half, to make those coins instantly much more valuable. That's basically a scam that happened in Dash. That is in no way, shape, or form, comparable to Satoshi's honest mining of bitcoin.

Are you trolling? Or incapable of reading my comments fully? I said Dash is nothing like bitcoin, ethically, morally. I said feature wise, it's just a bitcoin clone with some extra gadgets. That's it.

Nope not trolling. OK if you're saying that DASH is nothing like bitcoin ethically or morally, well fair enough, that's your view and you're entitled to it. I disagree, but there you go....

"How is it 'very centralised'? What are you on about? What's this about hosting on someone else's servers? I could host thousands of BTC full nodes on someone else's servers with no collateral. What's your point?" It's centralized now because of the fact that most, if not all of Dash's masternodes are
It really is done to death, but for what it's worth I have considered the instamine scenario and resolved any ethical questions I had with two key points. 1) DRK was freely available for DUST for months after the launch, so anyone was free to buy/mine cheap coins for a long time.   2 ) Evan offered to airdrop the early mined coins to the community, but this was downvoted.hosted online, on centralized servers, such as Amazon. That means it is rather simple for a government to simply take control of the nodes or take them down. Mining doesn't operate this way, Satoshi invented the method of solo mining, to which is not centralized and to which cannot be taken down by a government. This is one of the reasons why Satoshi probably never implemented masternodes(It's a fairly simple concept) because it poses much more centralization to the network than even concentrated mining pools.



It really is done to death, but for what it's worth I have considered the instamine scenario and resolved any ethical questions I had with two key points. 1) DRK was freely available for DUST for months after the launch, so anyone was free to buy/mine cheap coins for a long time.   2 ) Evan offered to airdrop the early mined coins to the community, but this was downvoted. - I'm not here to argue whether the instamined coins are still being held by the instaminers or were sold/dumped off. I don' care about that, I care that the instamine happened anyway and nothing was done to stop it, mainly because Evan benefitted greatly from it(Being the first one there and all). The point is that the instamine happened where over 2million Dashes were mined in less than 2 days, and the block reward and coin supply(Two things that according to Satoshi should never be touched) were absolutely defecated on when they were cut by more than half of their original amounts. That's basically a scam.



How do they? DASH has an intact blockchain doing all the same things that BTCs does. How is it 'undermined'...no pun intended presumably? BTC mixers are operated by trusted third-parties on one or two servers. DASH does mixing on a network of 2,400 servers and nobody on here despite repeated attempts can demonstrate how the transactions can be traced. - It's "undermined", no pun intended, because that's the reason the blockchain was created in the first place, to do away with relying on trust aka someone to set up a masternode so you can mix your coins. Dashes entire masternode concept is based upon trust, which Satoshi did away with through Bitcoin. All Dash is doing is reversing that and heading back to centralization and trust. Bitcoin mixers are operated by third parties, so is Dashes masternodes. Point? In fact, here are already plans in the works of creating a decentralized bitcoin mixer, so that itself would make Dash irrelevant as well, since Dashes masternodes are not trustless.

Sorry dude, your quoting is all over the place - i'm not picking all that apart to reply inline. Also most of your points are covered by debate earlier in this thread....I suggest you read back and look at the parts about the distribution of the masternode network and it's security.....

sorry if that sounds like a cop-out, but format your post better and I'll reply inline.

Ok, I'll just c/p some here, don't have time to make it look pretty.


I'm not here to argue whether the instamined coins are still being held by the instaminers or were sold off. I don' care about that, that doesn't matter, What matters is that the instamine happened anyway and nothing was done to stop it, mainly because Evan benefitted greatly from it(Being the first one there and all). The point is that the instamine happened where over 2million Dashes were mined in less than 2 days, and the block reward and coin supply(Two things that according to Satoshi should never be touched) were absolutely defecated on when they were cut by more than half of their original amounts. That's basically a scam and there's no way around it.


 Masternodes undermine the entire point of the blockchain, where activities such as that should be on(Another reason why Coinjoin implemented in the coin is stupid), having such important activities as anonymity being provided by external nodes is just like using mixers for Bitcoins, which makes dash irrelevant.

It's "undermined", no pun intended, because that's the reason the blockchain was created in the first place, to do away with relying on trust aka someone to set up a masternode so you can mix your coins. Dashes entire masternode concept is based upon trust, which Satoshi did away with through Bitcoin. All Dash is doing is reversing that and heading back to centralization and trust. Bitcoin mixers are operated by third parties, so is Dashes masternodes. Point? In fact, there are already plans in the works of creating a decentralized bitcoin mixer, so that itself would make Dash irrelevant as well, since that mixer would deliver the same amount of anonymity that Dash can/could ever deliver(Though it's still less than ring signatures/zeocash).

[Shrikez]

you don't really care either right?

you're right, I don't. Evolution will take care of faulty designs, as usual.

I do care about the fallout on the crypto ecosystem DRK's eventual demise could cause but there's not much I can do.
However I trust it will happen before it'll even receive real attention and adoption so the fallout might be limited to the geek universe.

 That's the best XMR can find?

I am not XMR, I am a person with an opinion. Are you DASH?

and someone said the DRK dev might have 300k DRK.  I sincerely hope he has, because that's about the best motivation a dev can have as long as they are honest (which as the DRK dev has shown through delivering everything he said and in time).

Wealth is a strong motivator, you're right.

Pity it's stronger then honour, transparency and integrity, the world would be in a better shape.

It has been said before but if he was motivated by his mission he would have relaunched without fiddling with emission several times and thus creating a trust issue.

[BlockaFett]

you don't really care either right?

you're right, I don't. Evolution will take care of faulty designs, as usual.

I do care about the fallout on the crypto ecosystem DRK's eventual demise could cause but there's not much I can do.
However I trust it will happen before it'll even receive real attention and adoption so the fallout might be limited to the geek universe.

That's the best XMR can find?

I am not XMR, I am a person with an opinion. Are you DASH?

and someone said the DRK dev might have 300k DRK.  I sincerely hope he has, because that's about the best motivation a dev can have as long as they are honest (which as the DRK dev has shown through delivering everything he said and in time).

Wealth is a strong motivator, you're right.

Pity it's stronger then honour, transparency and integrity, the world would be in a better shape.

It has been said before but if he was motivated by his mission he would have relaunched without fiddling with emission several times and thus creating a trust issue.

sure, you and 100 XMR trolls, including the devs, suddenly decided that because you had so much honour and integrity, you had to flood the DRK thread with FUD to warn about <5% of total supply being mined to fast by you don't know who because it was an open launch, 13 months after it happened.  And coincidentally the same time that DRK repositions to be the first viable alternative to Bitcoin and the price starts going to orbit. totally seems legit.

[Joshuar]

you don't really care either right?

you're right, I don't. Evolution will take care of faulty designs, as usual.

I do care about the fallout on the crypto ecosystem DRK's eventual demise could cause but there's not much I can do.
However I trust it will happen before it'll even receive real attention and adoption so the fallout might be limited to the geek universe.

That's the best XMR can find?

I am not XMR, I am a person with an opinion. Are you DASH?

and someone said the DRK dev might have 300k DRK.  I sincerely hope he has, because that's about the best motivation a dev can have as long as they are honest (which as the DRK dev has shown through delivering everything he said and in time).

Wealth is a strong motivator, you're right.

Pity it's stronger then honour, transparency and integrity, the world would be in a better shape.

It has been said before but if he was motivated by his mission he would have relaunched without fiddling with emission several times and thus creating a trust issue.

sure, you and 100 XMR trolls, including the devs, suddenly decided that because you had so much honour and integrity, you had to flood the DRK thread with FUD to warn about <5% 10 to 15% of total supply being mined to fast by you don't know who because it was an open launch, 13 months after later.  And coincidentally the same time that DRK repositions to be the first viable alternative to Bitcoin and the price starts going to orbit. totally seems legit.

It's actually 10% to 15% of the total supply, that's even on the darkcoin/dash wiki...

A clone of Bitcoin cant compete with Bitcoin, don't live in fantasies. It's simply a warning because Dash was indeed dishonestly instamined. You much rather that was kept hidden, don't you.

[BlockaFett]

you don't really care either right?

you're right, I don't. Evolution will take care of faulty designs, as usual.

I do care about the fallout on the crypto ecosystem DRK's eventual demise could cause but there's not much I can do.
However I trust it will happen before it'll even receive real attention and adoption so the fallout might be limited to the geek universe.

That's the best XMR can find?

I am not XMR, I am a person with an opinion. Are you DASH?

and someone said the DRK dev might have 300k DRK.  I sincerely hope he has, because that's about the best motivation a dev can have as long as they are honest (which as the DRK dev has shown through delivering everything he said and in time).

Wealth is a strong motivator, you're right.

Pity it's stronger then honour, transparency and integrity, the world would be in a better shape.

It has been said before but if he was motivated by his mission he would have relaunched without fiddling with emission several times and thus creating a trust issue.

sure, you and 100 XMR trolls, including the devs, suddenly decided that because you had so much honour and integrity, you had to flood the DRK thread with FUD to warn about <5% 10 to 15% of total supply being mined to fast by you don't know who because it was an open launch, 13 months after later.  And coincidentally the same time that DRK repositions to be the first viable alternative to Bitcoin and the price starts going to orbit. totally seems legit.

It's actually 10% to 15% of the total supply, that's even on the darkcoin wiki...

yes and who mined it?  you can show us right, because its such a big integrity issue you must be able to backup that accusation? 

[Joshuar]

you don't really care either right?

you're right, I don't. Evolution will take care of faulty designs, as usual.

I do care about the fallout on the crypto ecosystem DRK's eventual demise could cause but there's not much I can do.
However I trust it will happen before it'll even receive real attention and adoption so the fallout might be limited to the geek universe.

That's the best XMR can find?

I am not XMR, I am a person with an opinion. Are you DASH?

and someone said the DRK dev might have 300k DRK.  I sincerely hope he has, because that's about the best motivation a dev can have as long as they are honest (which as the DRK dev has shown through delivering everything he said and in time).

Wealth is a strong motivator, you're right.

Pity it's stronger then honour, transparency and integrity, the world would be in a better shape.

It has been said before but if he was motivated by his mission he would have relaunched without fiddling with emission several times and thus creating a trust issue.

sure, you and 100 XMR trolls, including the devs, suddenly decided that because you had so much honour and integrity, you had to flood the DRK thread with FUD to warn about <5% 10 to 15% of total supply being mined to fast by you don't know who because it was an open launch, 13 months after later.  And coincidentally the same time that DRK repositions to be the first viable alternative to Bitcoin and the price starts going to orbit. totally seems legit.

It's actually 10% to 15% of the total supply, that's even on the darkcoin wiki...

yes and who mined it?  you can show us right, because its such a big integrity issue you must be able to backup that accusation?  

Considering at the time, only those using Linux and solo mining could have mined it, very few people did. Of course the developers at the time, internetape and evan mined(That was even said in one of their early posts). But again, who mined is almost irrelevant. It's the fact that such a dishonest instamine even happened that leaves such a bad taste in mouths.

[Shrikez]

Of course the current holders don't care, most of them profited directly or indirectly of that event. Either by being part of the selected few during the 'faulty' blocks or by buying big amounts for cheap early on.

Good for them but not good for the long term credibility. I won't discuss this point any further, no worries. Just like in life most of the times it has to hurt before it is understood.

This argument will come back and it will hurt when it's time for the big numbers.

How is that different to BTC? I did not mine BTC in 2009-2011, nor did I buy it for cents. Neither did I participate in the early mining of DASH, nor did I buy it for almost nothing. Nobody cared about BTC in the early days, as nobody cared about DRK. Still, I know people who call BTC a ponzi and are jealous of the early adopters. Same here.
The only thing "hurting" - right now - is the constant discussion about it, which to me seems pointless and only motivated by the wish to find something to criticise. I get the technical criticism, but not the "instamine". Everyone can read the whole story in the thread, on the Dash FAQ etc. It`s ok if you find it fishy. I don`t. But to suggest it "will come back" and those not caring could be somehow unethical (pumpers, profiteers, scammers) is - unethical.

sigh...

Can you really not see the difference? BTC was released with x blocks in y time with n coins per Block halving at defined points in time. It stayed that way. These are parameters you can trust.

I also didn't use or imply the term (un-)ethical anywhere. I didn't use the term scammers or pumpers or fishy either.

Anyway this is pointless. I am outta here.

[majamina]

A clone of Bitcoin cant compete with Bitcoin, don't live in fantasies.

like Mastercard can't compete with Visa, presumably?

[Macno]

sigh...

Can you really not see the difference? BTC was released with x blocks in y time with n coins per Block halving at defined points in time. It stayed that way. These are parameters you can trust.

I also didn't use or imply the term (un-)ethical anywhere. I didn't use the term scammers or pumpers or fishy either.

Anyway this is pointless. I am outta here.

Yes, Evan messed it up, he then tried to repair the damage. The community was fine with it. I did not say that you used those terms, but what are you implying then? That`s what the others who criticize it suggest.

[BlockaFett]

you don't really care either right?

you're right, I don't. Evolution will take care of faulty designs, as usual.

I do care about the fallout on the crypto ecosystem DRK's eventual demise could cause but there's not much I can do.
However I trust it will happen before it'll even receive real attention and adoption so the fallout might be limited to the geek universe.

That's the best XMR can find?

I am not XMR, I am a person with an opinion. Are you DASH?

and someone said the DRK dev might have 300k DRK.  I sincerely hope he has, because that's about the best motivation a dev can have as long as they are honest (which as the DRK dev has shown through delivering everything he said and in time).

Wealth is a strong motivator, you're right.

Pity it's stronger then honour, transparency and integrity, the world would be in a better shape.

It has been said before but if he was motivated by his mission he would have relaunched without fiddling with emission several times and thus creating a trust issue.

sure, you and 100 XMR trolls, including the devs, suddenly decided that because you had so much honour and integrity, you had to flood the DRK thread with FUD to warn about <5% 10 to 15% of total supply being mined to fast by you don't know who because it was an open launch, 13 months after later.  And coincidentally the same time that DRK repositions to be the first viable alternative to Bitcoin and the price starts going to orbit. totally seems legit.

It's actually 10% to 15% of the total supply, that's even on the darkcoin wiki...

yes and who mined it?  you can show us right, because its such a big integrity issue you must be able to backup that accusation?  

Considering at the time, only those using Linux and solo mining could have mined it, very few people did. Of course the developers at the time, internetape and evan mined(That was even said in one of their early posts). But again, who mined is almost irrelevant. It's the fact that such a dishonest instamine even happened that leaves such a bad taste in mouths.

so not releasing on Windows is the scam?  It's a linux-only scam or what are you saying?  How do you know 90% of the 'instamine' coins weren't mined by a guy who the next day got hit by a bus?  That's what I mean - thousands of hours of typing my Monero trolls and devs just to prove...nothing...butthurt?

[majamina]

I'm not here to argue whether the instamined coins are still being held by the instaminers or were sold off. I don' care about that, that doesn't matter, What matters is that the instamine happened anyway and nothing was done to stop it, mainly because Evan benefitted greatly from it(Being the first one there and all). The point is that the instamine happened where over 2million Dashes were mined in less than 2 days, and the block reward and coin supply(Two things that according to Satoshi should never be touched) were absolutely defecated on when they were cut by more than half of their original amounts. That's basically a scam and there's no way around it.

Why does it not matter if coins are redistributed and were cheaply available to everyone for ages? It absolutely matters in my view. If the coins had all been kept and held in addresses by persons unknown (like there are with loads of BTCs) then that would be worrying, but that's not the case.

Anyway as I said this has been done to absolute death. There's just no point in arguing about it any more...let the market decide I guess.

It's "undermined", no pun intended, because that's the reason the blockchain was created in the first place, to do away with relying on trust aka someone to set up a masternode so you can mix your coins. Dashes entire masternode concept is based upon trust, which Satoshi did away with through Bitcoin. All Dash is doing is reversing that and heading back to centralization and trust. Bitcoin mixers are operated by third parties, so is Dashes masternodes. Point? In fact, there are already plans in the works of creating a decentralized bitcoin mixer, so that itself would make Dash irrelevant as well, since that mixer would deliver the same amount of anonymity that Dash can/could ever deliver(Though it's still less than ring signatures/zeocash).

Which is all great, but your argument that DASH masternodes are centralised is flawed. Go back up the thread and read my distribution post.

[BlockaFett]

Hi - im going to stop posting here because I don't want to keep accusing and insulting people which I end up doing because of the FUD / frustration level. I wouldn't normally do that but I think it's really out of order for Monero to attack drk like it has done and I have had a lot of insults i didn't really think were fair.

It's real easy to pick-apart day 1 of a project that already succeeded and seeing some big conspiracy, it's not so easy doing it yourself i think and most devs will be worried about if enough people turn up for the launch and what goes wrong, not plotting for 1 year away when they know it will be top 5 coin, that's called hindsight  

At the end of the day, DRK started an anon crazy and Monero is a part of that.  DRK is now repositioning, Monero has to succeed in it's own space that it has chosen, nothing to do with DRK.  Every hour Monero people are typing on a keyboard about DRK is 1 hour lost to Monero where DRK is gaining either development or community support.  Stop doing it, it's self destructive, and the market will eventually sift through the scams or not that's what its for, if DRK was a scam the market will find that out because there's $ involved and vice versa.

anyway, cheers

(cue FUD lol )

[FreedomCoin]

I choose Dash, for many reasons. Including fast transaction times, 11 protocols making X11 ASICs far far away. Also a fan of the smaller blockchain (unlike XMR) which is a problem bitcoin is dealing with right now as well. Talking about a hard fork, Dashcoin can spork which gives a fallback in the case the fork goes awry.

But if all the others are minor, the major pro is its market cap.. so even if a large amount of instamined coins were sold, i think we have enough volume to make sure the coin does not fall through the floor in price. We saw that happen with litecoin, where a whale dumped a ton of LTC. The price of LTC dropped but quickly recovered due to its liquidity and its volume.

[iCEBREAKER]

I choose Dash, for many reasons. Including fast transaction times, 11 protocols making X11 ASICs far far away. Also a fan of the smaller blockchain (unlike XMR) which is a problem bitcoin is dealing with right now as well. Talking about a hard fork, Dashcoin can spork which gives a fallback in the case the fork goes awry.

Roll-your-own crypto is in general a bad idea.

Chaining 11 hash functions not designed to be chained is a bad idea specifically.

Trusting a coin dependent on Masternodes, which can be compromised by the dev's remote killswitch given 5 minutes and a $5 wrench, is an absolutely terrible idea.

Good luck with all that.  You'll need it.