XMR vs DRK

[Macno]

'Tokyo, We Have a Problem.' Bitcoin's Fatal Flaw?
http://www.thedailybell.com/news-analysis/36213/Tokyo-We-Have-a-Problem-Bitcoins-Fatal-Flaw/

"In fact, it's only if and when Tony Soprano publicly renounces his claim to the underlying bitcoin collateral he is owed that the bitcoins stand a chance of being treated as unencumbered. Until then, a hot potato claim risk exists for every future acquirer of Soprano's bitcoin. Indeed, given the high volume of fraud and default in the bitcoin network, chances are most bitcoins have competing claims over them by now. Put another way, there are probably more people with legitimate claims over bitcoins than there are bitcoins. And if they can prove the trail, they can make a legal case for reclamation."

Is it fair to say that Dash and XMR have the same problem from a legal point of view, but made it impossible for Mr Soprano to prove his point?
But this only changes the practical aspect, not the (theoretical) legal one, does it?

[illodin]

...
People who are motivated by solving a problem or creating something new usually achieve wealth as a byproduct not as a intended goal. And people who pursue wealth without merit usually get neither.

Well-said

And what about those who are both, motivated by solving a problem and getting rich while doing it? Is that allowed? Or is the only honorable way of running these projects that the devs should be poor and work their asses off to make the "investors" rich?

Are these companies? Or are these cryptocurrencies? The point is decentralization, so the makers aren't the ones that mostly benefit. Satoshi's coins have never even been moved once since they were mined, aside from the few coins he gave right after Bitcoin was launched as tests to hal finney and a few others.

The problem with people like you is that you solely think of these cryptocurencies like centralized companies and looking at your posts, you only value them as pennystock-like entities to earn you profit by pumping and dumping.  You also support developers that premine or dishonestly instamine because it gives "motivation" work more, while destroying any integrity the cryptpcurrency had. You shouldn't even be here if you have that kind of thinking, that isn't what Bitcoin or cryptocurrencies in general are about.

And how exactly "decentralization" is in contradiction with the one who is creating all the value being allowed to benefit from it?

The problem with people like you is straw men, red herrings, non sequiturs, ad nauseams, and now ad hominems.

That's the whole problem. As your former developer Vertoe said, having 1 person make all the decisions and subsequently all the value is Centralization, of which you obviously don't care about. So why are you here? If all you care about is making money off the cryptocurrencies and absolutely nothing else, don't even bother typing on this forum. Making money is great, but that shouldn't be the sole reason to be here, you should want the technology and coin to succeed, get used widely, have less volatility in the long run, etc, not just look forward to the various pumps and dumps that come along(And is one of the main reasons Bitcoin is hardly used as a currency).

Having a main dev makes a coin centralized? If the community is not happy how things are being done, they can always take over. Hasn't happened yet though.

Btw, just because someone has profited shitload more than you doesn't mean that's the only thing they care about.

What? Your own former developer said that dash/drk was centralized due to 1 developer making all major decisions, etc. A former developer of your coin said this, not just any random person. Your comments make it seem like you only care about profiting, since you have no problem with someone instamining or premining if it's to propel the value of the coin as a whole and make everyone "rich"(Which is also the reason so many people get scammed on here, buying into random coins in the hopes of becoming rich overnight).

So if someone is a former developer that makes everything he says the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Or is it that that applies only when it suits your own agenda?

You're not making sense. This person was someone who helped create Dash/drk's entire infrastructure. Obviously they have more experience with the inner workings of development that I or you do, therefore believing that they were telling the truth is far more logical than not doing so. Again, it was a former developer that said this, not some random troll.

Just like it's far more logical to assume a person will become butt hurt if he feels his efforts are not being appreciated enough and dumps his coins just before they rise 2.5x in value than assuming he hates money and doesn't enjoy his work being appreciated.

Btw, could you detail how exactly did he help create Dash/drk's entire infrastructure?

That again, makes no sense. Eddufield just deciding to change the name without any community vote or poll could have been the last straw for him, and is why he sold his coins. In his posts he also details that he knew Dash/DRK was centralized but didn't mind because he was still involved and presumably would try and curb the centralization. Now that's thrown out the window as he resigned and stated it as a fact to have centralized development down to the very code.

He contributed to the development of Dash/Darkcoin so obviously that's synonymous with the building of Dash/Darkcoins infrastructure. Are you trying to troll? For the third time, this was your own former developer who stated that your own coin was centralized, not just a random person.

Yes, that could've been the last straw for him, just like it could've added to his butt hurt that his work was not being appreciated as much as he would've liked and that the price of the coin went up 2.5x right after he had dumped.

Contributing to the development is not synonymous with "helping to create the entire infrastructure" by default.

He had 50k dash/darkcoins, I'm not sure he cared regardless of whether it went up 2.5x or not, he also dumped within the 0.15 range, so it did not go up 2.5x after that, more like a mere 50%(It's high was around .025, that's around a 50% increase from 0.15). Please go by what he said in his posts, and not by pure speculation, thanks...

In this case, it obviously is since he was a developer of Dash/Drk.

I will try to go by what he has said in his posts, but it appears you are more familiar with his post history than I am, so could you link to a post where he says he had 50k? Also to a post where he says he dumped at 0.15, thanks...

If you implement a new feature for Dash/Drk which displays the time of the day in the wallet application's title bar, i.e. you are a developer of Dash/Drk, did you just "help to create the entire infrastructure"? And if so, then what is your definition of "entire infrasturcture"?

poor Vertoe..  

IIRC he dumped around 50,000 DRK from about 0.013 down. With the price now at 0.023+ at a minimum he would have seen an extra $122,500.

I guess that's what can happen when you make such a rash decision.

From your fellow Dash/Darkcoin supporter.

Please search up what the word "help" means, did I say he single- handedly made Dash/Darkcoin? Or that he helped contribute to it development/PR wise. Ok then. No sense is being made on your part...

So first you say "Please go by what he said in his posts, and not by pure speculation, thanks...", and then proceed posting someone in a forum saying "IIRC he dumped around 50k" as a proof. Okay. Also, how is "from about 0.013 down" within the 0.15 [sic] range on which you based your speculations calculations?

"Contributing to development/PR" does not equal to "helping to create the entire infrastructure", which is far more fundamental than that. If he had designed the masternodes for example, then I would agree that he had "helped to create the entire infrastructure". It appears you are making these profound claims without even knowing what he did.

To by "what he said in his posts", I was referring to his thoughts on Dash/Darkcoin's centralization and why he left in the first place, not by how much coins he had. Secondly, that's a fellow Darkcoin/Dash supporter and would obviously know more about Dash/Darkcoin devs coin collections than myself, or am I now to believe that your fellow supporters are lying? I used 0.15 compared to 0.025 as general marks, not specifically the price he sold at nor the high the pump achieved, to show you how wrong you were saying Dash/Darkcoin went up by 2.5x or 250%, when it actually went up around 50%.

Exactly how is it more fundamental than that? Vertoe was apart of the Dash/Darkcoin team, he was listed as a developer on darkcointalk. The quality of work doesn't matter, the point is that he was apart of the team and in the "know how".

So you're asking not to speculate but to base matters on his posts only on the subjects that suit your personal agenda?

Also, have you finished high school yet? If you had, you'd probably know that something going up 2.5x is not equal to something going up 250%. Ok, I can understand you're not good with numbers, and hence can perhaps using some twisted logic think it doesn't matter for someone if he sells at 0.01 or 0.025 if he just sells enough (50k was the number for "enough" in your case), but I can tell you that it really does matter.

If you're saying someone is "helping to create the entire infrastructure", it means he is helping to do something very fundamental to the coin's infrastructure itself, that it wouldn't be the same coin without it. At least that's how the concept of infrastructure is thought of in the software development business.

Ok so in your world 2.5x is 50%....Makes sense /sarcasm. If you bothered to go to school and learn math instead of trolling, then maybe you wouldn't make such idiotic posts. You can google it if you want, 2.5x is 250% http://www.answers.com/Q/What_is_2.5_as_a_percentage. Simple. My point of him not caring if it went up after he sold was that he proably bought in at a price much lower than what he sold at. Please use your brain.

Ok so being apart of Dash/Darkcoins "team" and having had the tag of "Developer" next to his name in Darkcointalk means he didn't contribute to Dash/Darkcoin in your world...Makes sense /sarcasm

You're a fine example of what happens to most when you don't finish math class.

Lol you dumbwit don't even deserve a reply.

EDIT: omg just can't stop lolling... I'm talking to a child here... 2.5x is 250%, just found it on google!

Would you like to bet money on it? You seem oh so sure in your statements. I simply wanted to show you how easy it is to search for basic information if you don't know already. You stated that 2.5x is not the equivalent of 250%(Basic Math, but you haven't seemed to learn it yet). So why not bet on it? $100.

If not then you admit you're wrong and that 2.5x is indeed equivalent to 250%.

You're honestly really dumb...

Ok, we have a bet then. I will bet you 0.4 BTC that something going up by 2.5x does not equal it going up 250%.

I will accept whatever rpietila says the correct answer.

[David Latapie]

XMR have the same problem from a legal point of view

Monero is completely fungible, its the only crypto that doesnt have this problem.

Technically, other CryptoNote coins don't have this problem either (but they have a lot other, starting with ridiculous volume, since Monero is leader in CryptoNote, by far)

[Hueristic]

...


So you're asking not to speculate but to base matters on his posts only on the subjects that suit your personal agenda?

Also, have you finished high school yet? If you had, you'd probably know that something going up 2.5x is not equal to something going up 250%. Ok, I can understand you're not good with numbers, and hence can perhaps using some twisted logic think it doesn't matter for someone if he sells at 0.01 or 0.025 if he just sells enough (50k was the number for "enough" in your case), but I can tell you that it really does matter.

If you're saying someone is "helping to create the entire infrastructure", it means he is helping to do something very fundamental to the coin's infrastructure itself, that it wouldn't be the same coin without it. At least that's how the concept of infrastructure is thought of in the software development business.

[Macno]

XMR have the same problem from a legal point of view

Monero is completely fungible, its the only crypto that doesnt have this problem.

Technically, other CryptoNote coins don't have this problem either (but they have a lot other, starting with ridiculous volume, since Monero is leader in CryptoNote, by far)

Are you saying that Dash would be easier for Mr Soprano (see the example I linked) to track back?

[DeboraMeeks]

Ok, we have a bet then. I will bet you 0.4 BTC that something going up by 2.5x does not equal it going up 250%.

I will accept whatever rpietila says the correct answer.

Darlings, I'd like to know if I can get in on this action? illodin doesn't seem to have grasped elementary school math, and I'd love to make an easy 0.4 BTC!

[illodin]

^^ The race for decentralized markets has already been won.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=890531.0
http://bitbaymarket.net/

[fluffypony]

Ok, we have a bet then. I will bet you 0.4 BTC that something going up by 2.5x does not equal it going up 250%.

I will accept whatever rpietila says the correct answer.

Darlings, I'd like to know if I can get in on this action? illodin doesn't seem to have grasped elementary school math, and I'd love to make an easy 0.4 BTC!

No, this is something that has arisen due to innumeracy. A two-fold increase is the same as a 100% increase because of the base against which we're comparing. So if something increases 100% it means "it has increased by 100% of the original amount", i.e. it has doubled. When something increases by 250% it means "it has increased by 250% of the original amount", i.e. it is 3.5x the original.

Edit: just to add that this is such a counter-intuitive way to put things and often leads to confusion among those more mathematically inclined, so don't feel embarrassed if you owe illodin 0.4 BTC. Going up by 2.5x is the same as increasing to 250% but not the same as increasing by 250%.

[illodin]

Ok, we have a bet then. I will bet you 0.4 BTC that something going up by 2.5x does not equal it going up 250%.

I will accept whatever rpietila says the correct answer.

Darlings, I'd like to know if I can get in on this action? illodin doesn't seem to have grasped elementary school math, and I'd love to make an easy 0.4 BTC!

Ok, deal - we also have a bet.

[TheKoziTwo]

Ok, we have a bet then. I will bet you 0.4 BTC that something going up by 2.5x does not equal it going up 250%.

I will accept whatever rpietila says the correct answer.

Darlings, I'd like to know if I can get in on this action? illodin doesn't seem to have grasped elementary school math, and I'd love to make an easy 0.4 BTC!

Ok, deal - we also have a bet.

me too please? I would also like to bet more if you are interested.

edit: I am willing to bet according to terms stated here

[farfiman]

Ok, we have a bet then. I will bet you 0.4 BTC that something going up by 2.5x does not equal it going up 250%.

I will accept whatever rpietila says the correct answer.

Darlings, I'd like to know if I can get in on this action? illodin doesn't seem to have grasped elementary school math, and I'd love to make an easy 0.4 BTC!

Ok, deal - we also have a bet.

me too please? I would also like to bet more if you are interested.

The wording of the bet isnt equal to he original statement hence the confusion.  (see fluffyponys post above)

The original statement : "If not then you admit you're wrong and that 2.5x is indeed equivalent to 250%"

The bet  :  "Ok, we have a bet then. I will bet you 0.4 BTC that something going up by 2.5x does not equal it going up 250%."

[TheKoziTwo]

Ok, we have a bet then. I will bet you 0.4 BTC that something going up by 2.5x does not equal it going up 250%.

I will accept whatever rpietila says the correct answer.

Darlings, I'd like to know if I can get in on this action? illodin doesn't seem to have grasped elementary school math, and I'd love to make an easy 0.4 BTC!

Ok, deal - we also have a bet.

me too please? I would also like to bet more if you are interested.

The wording of the bet isnt equal to he original statement hence the confusion.  (see fluffyponys post above)

If that's his point then the bet is off obviously.

Calculation:

X = 25

Case A:
X*250% = 62.5
X*2.5 = 62.5

Case B:
X+(X*250%) = 87.5
X*3.5 = 87.5

If he still disagrees with Case A I would love to bet. Just let me know.

[deliveryman]

can i join the bet?

[5w00p]

Holy ess dee see spam, batwoman

[illodin]

The context was that DASH went up from 0.01 to 0.025. Joshuar said that meant that it "went up by 2.5x or 250%", and I said that "something going up 2.5x is not equal to something going up 250%", then he wanted to bet that it is, to which I agreed.

[illodin]

Calculation:

X = 25

Case A:
X*250% = 62.5
X*2.5 = 62.5

Case B:
X+(X*250%) = 87.5
X*3.5 = 87.5

If he still disagrees with Case A I would love to bet. Just let me know.

Your calculations don't make sense in this case. Just look:
A: 25*250% = 6250%
B: 25+(25*250%) = 25 + 6250%

[TheKoziTwo]

Calculation:

X = 25

Case A:
X*250% = 62.5
X*2.5 = 62.5

Case B:
X+(X*250%) = 87.5
X*3.5 = 87.5

If he still disagrees with Case A I would love to bet. Just let me know.

Your calculations don't make sense in this case. Just look:
A: 25*250% = 6250%
B: 25+(25*250%) = 25 + 6250%

You just multiplied 25 with 250, that's not the same as 25 * 250%. Don't you know how to calculate percentage? Notice the "%" sign.

See:
25*250%

[illodin]

Calculation:

X = 25

Case A:
X*250% = 62.5
X*2.5 = 62.5

Case B:
X+(X*250%) = 87.5
X*3.5 = 87.5

If he still disagrees with Case A I would love to bet. Just let me know.

Your calculations don't make sense in this case. Just look:
A: 25*250% = 6250%
B: 25+(25*250%) = 25 + 6250%

You just multiplied 25 with 250, that's not the same as 25 * 250%. Don't you know how to calculate percentage? Notice the "%" sign.

See:
25*250%

Are you saying 25*250% does not equal to 6250%?

[Joshuar]

 I was just about to ask for his btc address when I looked over the terms of my bet. It seems I stated that 2.5x is equivalent to 250%, and that's true, but a 2.5x increase isn't equivalent to a 250% increase, so in a string of luck the wording of the bet would still have guaranteed a win. Albeit I was wrong originally.

[canonsburg]

Calculation:

X = 25

Case A:
X*250% = 62.5
X*2.5 = 62.5

Case B:
X+(X*250%) = 87.5
X*3.5 = 87.5

If he still disagrees with Case A I would love to bet. Just let me know.

Your calculations don't make sense in this case. Just look:
A: 25*250% = 6250%
B: 25+(25*250%) = 25 + 6250%

You just multiplied 25 with 250, that's not the same as 25 * 250%. Don't you know how to calculate percentage? Notice the "%" sign.

See:
25*250%

Are you saying 25*250% does not equal to 6250%?

6250% = 62.5

100% = 100/100 = 1

6250% = 6250/100 = 62.5

"%" is dimensionless