XMR vs DRK

[Joshuar]

Internetape still has 100k(He gave away some, but had at minimum 100k after the giveaways were over) coins if we count one of his previous posts on the matter, and he was a darkcoin dev during all this.

I believe he said on one drunken night on IRC that he had dumped all shortly after he was fired from the team, and also Evan hinted at that being the case. Obviously that's no proof of anything, but everything seemed to match.

Why was he fired? If he was drunk then I probably wouldnt believe him.

"Personal issues".

https://dashtalk.org/threads/kyle-hagan-is-no-longer-part-of-the-development-team.3225/

Ah I see.

[iCEBREAKER]

"Personal issues".

https://dashtalk.org/threads/kyle-hagan-is-no-longer-part-of-the-development-team.3225/

Whoa, that's half the original team.  Now DashcoinDark is truly a one-man-scam.

The cultists' reactions have been predictably dark and threatening.  EG:

https://dashtalk.org/threads/kyle-hagan-is-no-longer-part-of-the-development-team.3225/#post-33461

I understand that this is a personal issue but the tone of the language used by Kyle in IRC made many people in the community including myself upset and angry. Kyle needs to understand that many have invested their time and money in this technology and any threat to this investment will not be taken lightly nor will be ignored. A person who has a known location, known identity, young children and other responsibilities should act smarter and avoid making unwanted attention by getting drunk and talking shit. That's all I can say publicly about this issue and urge Kyle Hagan be smart about what he does and talks in the future.

Yikes!  When you when know too much, one does not simply leave the cult !  

[illodin]

Yikes!  When you when know too much, one does not simply leave the cult !  

Yes, time to put the tinfoil hat on!

[smooth]

Internetape still has 100k(He gave away some, but had at minimum 100k after the giveaways were over) coins if we count one of his previous posts on the matter, and he was a darkcoin dev during all this.

I believe he said on one drunken night on IRC that he had dumped all shortly after he was fired from the team, and also Evan hinted at that being the case. Obviously that's no proof of anything, but everything seemed to match.

Why was he fired? If he was drunk then I probably wouldnt believe him.

"Personal issues".

https://dashtalk.org/threads/kyle-hagan-is-no-longer-part-of-the-development-team.3225/

What were the "controversial things" he posted on IRC?

[smooth]

As someone who is incapable of mining either on Linux or on Windows with all that complicated configuration stuff, I am outraged that neither Dash nor XMR have delivered easy plug-and-play miners way before. I feel scammed.

Yep. I didn't mine Monero or any of the CN coins at launch or ever for that matter because I found installing and configuring that stuff too much of a work. And I tried to mine as many coins at launches as possible. But I'm not crying about it as I know it was my fault for being lazy.

For someone who is familiar with mining Bitcoin and Litecoin clones, installing VirtualBox + Ubuntu is much easier than trying to install and configure Monero on Windows. Or at least it was at the time of the launch, I'm sure they've made it easier by now.

I don't know about Windows but if you wanted to mine cryptonotes on Linux (in or out of a VirtualBox) it was just:

git clone [repo]
cd [dir]
make
cd build/release/src
simplewallet --generate-new-wallet my-wallet
start_mining [number of threads]

I'm surprised you couldn't figure that out. No offense intended, but I do indeed find it surprising. I found it no harder than bitcoin/litecoin clones, seems to be about the same process.

[smooth]

I'm not here to argue whether the instamined coins are still being held by the instaminers or were sold off. I don' care about that, that doesn't matter, What matters is that the instamine happened anyway and nothing was done to stop it, mainly because Evan benefitted greatly from it(Being the first one there and all). The point is that the instamine happened where over 2million Dashes were mined in less than 2 days, and the block reward and coin supply(Two things that according to Satoshi should never be touched) were absolutely defecated on when they were cut by more than half of their original amounts. That's basically a scam and there's no way around it.

Why does it not matter if coins are redistributed and were cheaply available to everyone for ages? It absolutely matters in my view.

Because that is your view. Others view it differently and attach a lot of importance to the process rather than the outcome, especially (but not exclusively) since the outcome is unknowable. Yes various people post various things about how they have bought this many coins or sold this many coins or have this many coins left, but for the most part it is all unverifiable, and yes, in this world people do lie.

Coins not being at a certain high-balance address is especially meaningless, for reasons that are so obvious you have to question the motives (or intellectual function) of anyone who makes this argument.

Anyway as I said this has been done to absolute death. There's just no point in arguing about it any more...let the market decide I guess.

Again that is your view. Some of us find it important enough to include in any significant discussion about the coin, and view excluding it as misleading and irresponsible.

Go back up the thread and read my distribution post

Since it is impossible to trust any claims about "distribution" (see my first and second paragraphs above) I find that an irrelevant unreliable conjecture at best.

It is especially deceptive that DRK/DASH proponents general present statements about distribution in terms of what did happen. If it were presented as a possibility of what could have happened and not an unprovable factual outcome I would object to it less.

[illodin]

Internetape still has 100k(He gave away some, but had at minimum 100k after the giveaways were over) coins if we count one of his previous posts on the matter, and he was a darkcoin dev during all this.

I believe he said on one drunken night on IRC that he had dumped all shortly after he was fired from the team, and also Evan hinted at that being the case. Obviously that's no proof of anything, but everything seemed to match.

Why was he fired? If he was drunk then I probably wouldnt believe him.

"Personal issues".

https://dashtalk.org/threads/kyle-hagan-is-no-longer-part-of-the-development-team.3225/

What were the "controversial things" he posted on IRC?

Dunno, but he had a habit of making unprofessional tweets and posts using the official accounts and got a lot of shit from the community. Speaking before thinking. Not suitable for handling PR, and I guess that's where the friction between them started (could be obviously something else, but that's how it looked to me).

[iCEBREAKER]

he had a habit of making unprofessional tweets and posts using the official accounts and got a lot of shit from the community. Speaking before thinking. Not suitable for handling PR, and I guess that's where the friction between them started (could be obviously something else, but that's how it looked to me).

What does "unprofessional" mean?

Considering technical critique is in the toxic DARSH community unwelcome and met with cries of 'FUD' and 'Quick, attack-the-attacker' we can't trust your judgement on or characterization of the tweets and posts.

Primary sources, please!

I don't GAS about DARSH, but the drama over there is priceless.  Not since the Paycoiners at Hashtalk has there been a crowd more enthusiastic about and participating in growing their scam sufficient to get-rich-quick.

[Johnny Mnemonic]

I don't understand how anyone could not interpret the instamine to be a scam:

1) Evan tells everyone to go to sleep, and that he "definitely" won't launch without notice.
2) He launches a couple hours later, while everyone is asleep. Linux only btw.
3) Over a million coins are mined in 8 hours.
4) Soon later the block reward is dramatically reduced to a small fraction of what it was.

I truly can't fathom how anyone could even try to downplay this.
It makes more sense now, because folks want to protect their investment. But it's astonishing that anyone continued to support him at all when this first came to light.

[vokain]

I don't understand how anyone could not interpret the instamine to be a scam:

1) Evan tells everyone to go to sleep, and that he "definitely" won't launch without notice.
2) He launches a couple hours later, while everyone is asleep. Linux only btw.
3) Over a million coins are mined in 8 hours.
4) Soon later the block reward is dramatically reduced to a small fraction of what it was.

I truly can't fathom how anyone could even try to downplay this.
It makes more sense now, because folks want to protect their investment. But it's astonishing that anyone continued to support him at all when this first came to light.

And I think I know a pyramid scheme when I see one...:
http://darkcoin.guide/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/masternode_payment_plan.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMM-2011

You just have to get registered (and get your bonus $20 as a registration gift),
join the System, 'buy' your MAVRO money, and keep on lying on your couch and
watching how rapidly your capital grows in value, with up to 20 or 30% of gain a month.
(Note that your deposit grows even faster, up to 75% each month.)[5]

As Mavrodi explains, "There is a virtual currency called Mavro which constantly rises in price from 20 to 75 per cent a month. This price only I can set. Some individuals exchange money between themselves, without any obligations, guarantees or conditions – it is a fundamental point".[6]
The feature of this pyramid is the method of cash flows movement. As Aleksey Yaroshevsky of Russia Today explains in his article, "When there is no legal entity, no joint account, no office – in other words everything is shared between millions of private accounts – it means no one can put an end to it..." [6]
Mavrodi claims his actions are legal; Ukraine’s politicians disagree. The ruling party wants current laws tightened to block the MMM from making off with vulnerable people's nest eggs.[6]

[generalizethis]

I don't understand how anyone could not interpret the instamine to be a scam:

1) Evan tells everyone to go to sleep, and that he "definitely" won't launch without notice.
2) He launches a couple hours later, while everyone is asleep. Linux only btw.
3) Over a million coins are mined in 8 hours.
4) Soon later the block reward is dramatically reduced to a small fraction of what it was.

I truly can't fathom how anyone could even try to downplay this.
It makes more sense now, because folks want to protect their investment. But it's astonishing that anyone continued to support him at all when this first came to light.

Greed + Law of Attraction = people doing irrational things in the pursuit of an irrational dream. They won't listen to the hard facts because they can't reconcile what brought them to drk (greed) to legitimate concerns over its privacy and development. I was drawn away from drk and toward Monero because, like some of the BTC devs, I saw a real path toward an e-cash and a dev team with a legitimate goal and path. If you're a drk defender, ask yourself, "Are the criticism of drk rational? Am I being rational when I defend against these criticisms?" If you just believe the Monero devs are jealous and making attack vectors up, you're probably on the way to shitsville--as in "Oh, shit! Why didn't I listen more carefully?"

[BlockaFett]

I don't understand how anyone could not interpret the instamine to be a scam:

1) Evan tells everyone to go to sleep, and that he "definitely" won't launch without notice.
2) He launches a couple hours later, while everyone is asleep. Linux only btw.
3) Over a million coins are mined in 8 hours.
4) Soon later the block reward is dramatically reduced to a small fraction of what it was.

I truly can't fathom how anyone could even try to downplay this.
It makes more sense now, because folks want to protect their investment. But it's astonishing that anyone continued to support him at all when this first came to light.

Greed + Law of Attraction = people doing irrational things in the pursuit of an irrational dream. They won't listen to the hard facts because they can't reconcile what brought them to drk (greed) to legitimate concerns over its privacy and development. I was drawn away from drk and toward Monero because, like some of the BTC devs, I saw a real path toward an e-cash and a dev team with a legitimate goal and path. If you're a drk defender, ask yourself, "Are the criticism of drk rational? Am I being rational when I defend against these criticisms?" If you just believe the Monero devs are jealous and making attack vectors up, you're probably on the way to shitsville--as in "Oh, shit! Why didn't I listen more carefully?"

Ok that's a triple-troll combo, i'm posting.

1. How come you all sound like News Anchors? "The block reward was then DRAMATICALLY LOWERED"..."They won't listen to the HARD FACTS"....

2. No one is stupid enough to believe that you are here for altruistic reasons.  No one buys the 'sudden shock  ' drama-queen BS like you only just found out.  DRK price takes off and suddenly 3000 XMR drones fall from sky all shocked at the same time.  It's a bit much.  Investors aren't that stupid either.

3. The market doesn't care about the instamine because it never became an issue.  Everyone can see how much work the dev is doing and what is coming next and when.  Plus he is delivering stuff the market really wants, like instant transactions.  Investors will take all this in context.  They already are doing, as you can see on the btc/dash chart on all the major exchanges.

[Melbustus]

...
The market doesn't care about the instamine because it never became an issue. 
...

You mean because people are stupid.

That's actually one of my biggest fears with the crypto-space; too many people who can't think long-term or particularly rationally.

...
Plus he is delivering stuff the market really wants, like instant transactions. 
...

Mmm. Back to people being stupid. You can have instant transactions.....if you also accept low transactional security, and/or some non-trivial degree of centralization. Not sure which it is with drk, but it really doesn't matter.

[BlockaFett]

...
The market doesn't care about the instamine because it never became an issue. 
...

You mean because people are stupid.

That's actually one of my biggest fears with the crypto-space; too many people who can't think long-term or particularly rationally.

...
Plus he is delivering stuff the market really wants, like instant transactions. 
...

Mmm. Back to people being stupid. You can have instant transactions.....if you also accept low transactional security, and/or some non-trivial degree of centralization. Not sure which it is with drk, but it really doesn't matter.

Sure, the market is stupid.  Why didn't I think of that.  Thanks

[iCEBREAKER]

I don't understand how anyone could not interpret the instamine to be a scam:

1) Evan tells everyone to go to sleep, and that he "definitely" won't launch without notice.
2) He launches a couple hours later, while everyone is asleep. Linux only btw.
3) Over a million coins are mined in 8 hours.
4) Soon later the block reward is dramatically reduced to a small fraction of what it was.

I truly can't fathom how anyone could even try to downplay this.
It makes more sense now, because folks want to protect their investment. But it's astonishing that anyone continued to support him at all when this first came to light.

The Darkscammers like their Instamine.  Combination of greed and cult brainwashing.

Since Evan is their cult leader (The Chosen One), The Holy Instamine is first accepted, then welcomed, and finally rationalized, as his droit du seigneur.

[generalizethis]

I don't understand how anyone could not interpret the instamine to be a scam:

1) Evan tells everyone to go to sleep, and that he "definitely" won't launch without notice.
2) He launches a couple hours later, while everyone is asleep. Linux only btw.
3) Over a million coins are mined in 8 hours.
4) Soon later the block reward is dramatically reduced to a small fraction of what it was.

I truly can't fathom how anyone could even try to downplay this.
It makes more sense now, because folks want to protect their investment. But it's astonishing that anyone continued to support him at all when this first came to light.

Greed + Law of Attraction = people doing irrational things in the pursuit of an irrational dream. They won't listen to the hard facts because they can't reconcile what brought them to drk (greed) to legitimate concerns over its privacy and development. I was drawn away from drk and toward Monero because, like some of the BTC devs, I saw a real path toward an e-cash and a dev team with a legitimate goal and path. If you're a drk defender, ask yourself, "Are the criticism of drk rational? Am I being rational when I defend against these criticisms?" If you just believe the Monero devs are jealous and making attack vectors up, you're probably on the way to shitsville--as in "Oh, shit! Why didn't I listen more carefully?"

Ok that's a triple-troll combo, i'm posting.

1. How come you all sound like News Anchors? "The block reward was then DRAMATICALLY LOWERED"..."They won't listen to the HARD FACTS"....

2. No one is stupid enough to believe that you are here for altruistic reasons.  No one buys the 'sudden shock  ' drama-queen BS like you only just found out.  DRK price takes off and suddenly 3000 XMR drones fall from sky all shocked at the same time.  It's a bit much.  Investors aren't that stupid either.

3. The market doesn't care about the instamine because it never became an issue.  Everyone can see how much work the dev is doing and what is coming next and when.  Plus he is delivering stuff the market really wants, like instant transactions.  Investors will take all this in context.  They already are doing, as you can see on the btc/dash chart on all the major exchanges.

1. Does it matter if I sound like a news anchor? Hardly seems relevant. The dramatic lowering of block reward is scammy at best--if Evan wasn't the one who benefited most from this scenario, he would have most likely relaunched the coin. It's there, no one can wish it away, or say that no one cares--I care, and my mom tells me I'm someone. If it was an accident, cool, but then you run into the question of, "Do I want someone who has these types of accidents developing a serious coin?" I answered no, but you're free to look past warning  signs like this.

2. People can just as easily go to sdc or anon coin for all I care. Your project is the one we're discussing. I know why I chose Monero (I wan't privacy and a dev team committed to using the best approaches available), but that doesn't mean other people will have a different list--I would say if you're looking for a coin that puts the highest premium on marketing and has more room to grow than drk, go with sdc--I wouldn't hold it, but if you have a pure profit mentality, this seems a better fit than drk.

3. Popularity now doesn't equal success later and you don't know why people are really buying your coin. I know why I'm staying away from it--weak privacy features, weak trust, and there is a better coin available for my needs.

[BlockaFett]

I don't understand how anyone could not interpret the instamine to be a scam:

1) Evan tells everyone to go to sleep, and that he "definitely" won't launch without notice.
2) He launches a couple hours later, while everyone is asleep. Linux only btw.
3) Over a million coins are mined in 8 hours.
4) Soon later the block reward is dramatically reduced to a small fraction of what it was.

I truly can't fathom how anyone could even try to downplay this.
It makes more sense now, because folks want to protect their investment. But it's astonishing that anyone continued to support him at all when this first came to light.

Greed + Law of Attraction = people doing irrational things in the pursuit of an irrational dream. They won't listen to the hard facts because they can't reconcile what brought them to drk (greed) to legitimate concerns over its privacy and development. I was drawn away from drk and toward Monero because, like some of the BTC devs, I saw a real path toward an e-cash and a dev team with a legitimate goal and path. If you're a drk defender, ask yourself, "Are the criticism of drk rational? Am I being rational when I defend against these criticisms?" If you just believe the Monero devs are jealous and making attack vectors up, you're probably on the way to shitsville--as in "Oh, shit! Why didn't I listen more carefully?"

Ok that's a triple-troll combo, i'm posting.

1. How come you all sound like News Anchors? "The block reward was then DRAMATICALLY LOWERED"..."They won't listen to the HARD FACTS"....

2. No one is stupid enough to believe that you are here for altruistic reasons.  No one buys the 'sudden shock  ' drama-queen BS like you only just found out.  DRK price takes off and suddenly 3000 XMR drones fall from sky all shocked at the same time.  It's a bit much.  Investors aren't that stupid either.

3. The market doesn't care about the instamine because it never became an issue.  Everyone can see how much work the dev is doing and what is coming next and when.  Plus he is delivering stuff the market really wants, like instant transactions.  Investors will take all this in context.  They already are doing, as you can see on the btc/dash chart on all the major exchanges.

1. Does it matter if I sound like a news anchor? Hardly seems relevant. The dramatic lowering of block reward is scammy at best--if Evan wasn't the one who benefited most from this scenario, he would have most likely relaunched the coin. It's there, no one can wish it away, or say that no one cares--I care, and my mom tells me I'm someone. If it was an accident, cool, but then you run into the question of, "Do I want someone who has these types of accidents developing a serious coin?" I answered no, but you're free to look past warning  signs like this.

2. People can just as easily go to sdc or anon coin for all I care. Your project is the one we're discussing. I know why I chose Monero (I wan't privacy and a dev team committed to using the best approaches available), but that doesn't mean other people will have a different list--I would say if you're looking for a coin that puts the highest premium on marketing and has more room to grow than drk, go with sdc--I wouldn't hold it, but if you have a pure profit mentality, this seems a better fit than drk.

3. Popularity now doesn't equal success later and you don't know why people are really buying your coin. I know why I'm staying away from it--weak privacy features, weak trust, and there is a better coin available for my needs.

1. trying to say that at the time, no one thought it was dramatic. now DASH is the top alt after LTC, it's easy to use hindsight to say it was dramatic.  It wasn't, it was just a random coin launch on BCT with 10 others that day for people to take a break from DOGE.  You could have gone and instamined too if you had found the right coin and chosen to mine it (or bought the instamined coins for peanuts like everyone else did).

2. it's just the party line that coins like DRK are 'marketing' and 'greedy' and the people are 'stupid'. but ask yourself how true is this really?  right now drk devs are slaving away developing features like first crypto you can spend without having to go and make a cup of tea while you wait.  while no less than 5 of your devs have been on this thread making multiple accusations against drk.  how much of the monero story is hype and how much is being delivered?  we have totally opposite opinions on this obviously.

3. Sure, the usual opinion. but just saying drk is insecure and weak doesn't make it so, so maybe the market is smarter than you think, each to his own anyway

[generalizethis]

I don't understand how anyone could not interpret the instamine to be a scam:

1) Evan tells everyone to go to sleep, and that he "definitely" won't launch without notice.
2) He launches a couple hours later, while everyone is asleep. Linux only btw.
3) Over a million coins are mined in 8 hours.
4) Soon later the block reward is dramatically reduced to a small fraction of what it was.

I truly can't fathom how anyone could even try to downplay this.
It makes more sense now, because folks want to protect their investment. But it's astonishing that anyone continued to support him at all when this first came to light.

Greed + Law of Attraction = people doing irrational things in the pursuit of an irrational dream. They won't listen to the hard facts because they can't reconcile what brought them to drk (greed) to legitimate concerns over its privacy and development. I was drawn away from drk and toward Monero because, like some of the BTC devs, I saw a real path toward an e-cash and a dev team with a legitimate goal and path. If you're a drk defender, ask yourself, "Are the criticism of drk rational? Am I being rational when I defend against these criticisms?" If you just believe the Monero devs are jealous and making attack vectors up, you're probably on the way to shitsville--as in "Oh, shit! Why didn't I listen more carefully?"

Ok that's a triple-troll combo, i'm posting.

1. How come you all sound like News Anchors? "The block reward was then DRAMATICALLY LOWERED"..."They won't listen to the HARD FACTS"....

2. No one is stupid enough to believe that you are here for altruistic reasons.  No one buys the 'sudden shock  ' drama-queen BS like you only just found out.  DRK price takes off and suddenly 3000 XMR drones fall from sky all shocked at the same time.  It's a bit much.  Investors aren't that stupid either.

3. The market doesn't care about the instamine because it never became an issue.  Everyone can see how much work the dev is doing and what is coming next and when.  Plus he is delivering stuff the market really wants, like instant transactions.  Investors will take all this in context.  They already are doing, as you can see on the btc/dash chart on all the major exchanges.

1. Does it matter if I sound like a news anchor? Hardly seems relevant. The dramatic lowering of block reward is scammy at best--if Evan wasn't the one who benefited most from this scenario, he would have most likely relaunched the coin. It's there, no one can wish it away, or say that no one cares--I care, and my mom tells me I'm someone. If it was an accident, cool, but then you run into the question of, "Do I want someone who has these types of accidents developing a serious coin?" I answered no, but you're free to look past warning  signs like this.

2. People can just as easily go to sdc or anon coin for all I care. Your project is the one we're discussing. I know why I chose Monero (I wan't privacy and a dev team committed to using the best approaches available), but that doesn't mean other people will have a different list--I would say if you're looking for a coin that puts the highest premium on marketing and has more room to grow than drk, go with sdc--I wouldn't hold it, but if you have a pure profit mentality, this seems a better fit than drk.

3. Popularity now doesn't equal success later and you don't know why people are really buying your coin. I know why I'm staying away from it--weak privacy features, weak trust, and there is a better coin available for my needs.

1. trying to say that at the time, no one thought it was dramatic. now DASH is the top alt after LTC, it's easy to use hindsight to say it was dramatic.  It wasn't, it was just a random coin launch on BCT with 10 others that day for people to take a break from DOGE.  You could have gone and instamined too if you had found the right coin and chosen to mine it.

2. it's just the party line that coins like DRK are 'marketing' and 'greedy' and the people are 'stupid'. but ask yourself how true is this really?  right now drk devs are slaving away developing features like first crypto you can spend without having to go and make a cup of tea while you wait.  while no less than 5 of your devs have been on this thread making multiple accusations against drk.  how much of the monero story is hype and how much is being delivered?  we have totally opposite opinions on this obviously.

3. Sure, the usual opinion. but just saying drk is insecure and weak doesn't make it so, so maybe the market is smarter than you think, each to his own anyway

1. Doesn't matter how it looked at the time (or how you want it to have looked), many coins are/were using fast/insta mine techniques to raise money followed by pump and dumps to reach maximum btc accumulation--your coin looks like this to me. Thankfully i can use my own good judgement and avoid things that look and smell scammy. Also, your dev said it was an accident, so are you saying it is not? And furthermore, I don't want to own or be part of an instamine--I don't know if you're projecting greed onto me, but you really do need to know how bad statements like this sound.

2. I don't know that your devs are slaving away--they should be finding a way out of centralized masternodes and other privacy flawed strategies--but more to the point of your comparison, not one of your devs has ever offered a valid critique of Monero's privacy features, and thankfully Monero's devs will point out flaws within another coin. This is how antifragile should work, so instead of complaining, you should be thanking them for taking the time to point out flaws, that if fixed, would improve your coin.

3. This: www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2zufu1/a_great_podcast_by_lets_talk_bitcoin_discussing/cpmvogy?context=3

[BlockaFett]

I don't understand how anyone could not interpret the instamine to be a scam:

1) Evan tells everyone to go to sleep, and that he "definitely" won't launch without notice.
2) He launches a couple hours later, while everyone is asleep. Linux only btw.
3) Over a million coins are mined in 8 hours.
4) Soon later the block reward is dramatically reduced to a small fraction of what it was.

I truly can't fathom how anyone could even try to downplay this.
It makes more sense now, because folks want to protect their investment. But it's astonishing that anyone continued to support him at all when this first came to light.

Greed + Law of Attraction = people doing irrational things in the pursuit of an irrational dream. They won't listen to the hard facts because they can't reconcile what brought them to drk (greed) to legitimate concerns over its privacy and development. I was drawn away from drk and toward Monero because, like some of the BTC devs, I saw a real path toward an e-cash and a dev team with a legitimate goal and path. If you're a drk defender, ask yourself, "Are the criticism of drk rational? Am I being rational when I defend against these criticisms?" If you just believe the Monero devs are jealous and making attack vectors up, you're probably on the way to shitsville--as in "Oh, shit! Why didn't I listen more carefully?"

Ok that's a triple-troll combo, i'm posting.

1. How come you all sound like News Anchors? "The block reward was then DRAMATICALLY LOWERED"..."They won't listen to the HARD FACTS"....

2. No one is stupid enough to believe that you are here for altruistic reasons.  No one buys the 'sudden shock  ' drama-queen BS like you only just found out.  DRK price takes off and suddenly 3000 XMR drones fall from sky all shocked at the same time.  It's a bit much.  Investors aren't that stupid either.

3. The market doesn't care about the instamine because it never became an issue.  Everyone can see how much work the dev is doing and what is coming next and when.  Plus he is delivering stuff the market really wants, like instant transactions.  Investors will take all this in context.  They already are doing, as you can see on the btc/dash chart on all the major exchanges.

1. Does it matter if I sound like a news anchor? Hardly seems relevant. The dramatic lowering of block reward is scammy at best--if Evan wasn't the one who benefited most from this scenario, he would have most likely relaunched the coin. It's there, no one can wish it away, or say that no one cares--I care, and my mom tells me I'm someone. If it was an accident, cool, but then you run into the question of, "Do I want someone who has these types of accidents developing a serious coin?" I answered no, but you're free to look past warning  signs like this.

2. People can just as easily go to sdc or anon coin for all I care. Your project is the one we're discussing. I know why I chose Monero (I wan't privacy and a dev team committed to using the best approaches available), but that doesn't mean other people will have a different list--I would say if you're looking for a coin that puts the highest premium on marketing and has more room to grow than drk, go with sdc--I wouldn't hold it, but if you have a pure profit mentality, this seems a better fit than drk.

3. Popularity now doesn't equal success later and you don't know why people are really buying your coin. I know why I'm staying away from it--weak privacy features, weak trust, and there is a better coin available for my needs.

1. trying to say that at the time, no one thought it was dramatic. now DASH is the top alt after LTC, it's easy to use hindsight to say it was dramatic.  It wasn't, it was just a random coin launch on BCT with 10 others that day for people to take a break from DOGE.  You could have gone and instamined too if you had found the right coin and chosen to mine it.

2. it's just the party line that coins like DRK are 'marketing' and 'greedy' and the people are 'stupid'. but ask yourself how true is this really?  right now drk devs are slaving away developing features like first crypto you can spend without having to go and make a cup of tea while you wait.  while no less than 5 of your devs have been on this thread making multiple accusations against drk.  how much of the monero story is hype and how much is being delivered?  we have totally opposite opinions on this obviously.

3. Sure, the usual opinion. but just saying drk is insecure and weak doesn't make it so, so maybe the market is smarter than you think, each to his own anyway

1. Doesn't matter how it looked at the time (or how you want it to have looked), many coins are/were using fast/insta mine techniques to raise money followed by pump and dumps to reach maximum btc accumulation--your coin looks like this to me. Thankfully i can use my own good judgement and avoid things that look and smell scammy. Also, you dev said it was an accident, so are you saying it is not? And furthermore, I don't want to own or be part of an instamine--I don't know if you're projecting greed onto me, but you really do need to know how bad statements like this sound.

2. I don't know that your devs are slaving away--they should be finding a way out of centralized masternodes and other privacy flawed strategies--but more to the point of your comparison, not one of your devs has ever offered a valid critique of Monero's privacy features, and thankfully Monero's devs will point out flaws within another coin. This is how antifragile should work, so instead of using at as a weak argument, yopu should be thanking them for taking the time to point out flaws, that if fixed, would improve your coin.

3. This: www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2zufu1/a_great_podcast_by_lets_talk_bitcoin_discussing/cpmvogy?context=3

1. Ok that's your opinion. For me I would rather all coin Devs I invest in have upto maybe 5% of the supply to incentivize them to actually do work, the same as how I don't invest in startup companies where the CEO isn't incentivized sufficiently - because it's the best way to get them to deliver.  Saying this is a negative thing is backwards to me.  No VC would touch it for a start. Obviously you have to exclude coins like 'bang' or 'boom' or whatever that are clearly P&D vehicles, just coins where you have synergy with the long term aims and pass your own due diligence. (BTW I have no idea how many coins DRK dev has but I hope it's enough to keep him interested)  Secondly, scam and instamine are 2 seperate things.  A dev can choose whatever they want for their coin, it's not illegal.  The scam comes in when a dev instamines and then doesn't deliver what he says he will to profit from the investors, and then dumps, that's a scam or more specifically a ponzi scheme.  That hasn't happened with DRK - instead, after 1 year, it's the top alt and just cracked instant transactions plus anonymity.  So no, I don't think the instamine is a 'scam', it's the best project I invested in because the 20 other alts I invested in, the devs either didn't develop or ran off and I had to learn a lesson lol.  DRK is still here and going strong and no one can argue they aren't busting a nut in terms of development because it's all public...

2. I don't think masternodes are centralized because I have one and it's just a wallet running in masternode mode on a shit PC.  It's just the same as a fullnode.  All the XMR accusations just show lack of knowledge.  All aspects of the crypto p2p paradigm transpose to the 2nd tier, you basically already have the aspects with BTC full node network.  You had monero devs here saying things like 'without failovers the MN network is insecure' - so even basic knowledge of how P2P network functions is aparently lacking. And saying all the nodes are on amazon so the NSA can snoop them - MN are in 30 countries with different governments and mostly small hosting companies some that accept DRK, anyway.   Last, why does a DRK dev need to comment on Monero? its doing just fine.  If monero ever gets off Poloniex and shows that the real market wants it,  maybe DRK can learn something.  

3. can't listen right now but thanks i will later

[Joshuar]

I don't understand how anyone could not interpret the instamine to be a scam:

1) Evan tells everyone to go to sleep, and that he "definitely" won't launch without notice.
2) He launches a couple hours later, while everyone is asleep. Linux only btw.
3) Over a million coins are mined in 8 hours.
4) Soon later the block reward is dramatically reduced to a small fraction of what it was.

I truly can't fathom how anyone could even try to downplay this.
It makes more sense now, because folks want to protect their investment. But it's astonishing that anyone continued to support him at all when this first came to light.

Greed + Law of Attraction = people doing irrational things in the pursuit of an irrational dream. They won't listen to the hard facts because they can't reconcile what brought them to drk (greed) to legitimate concerns over its privacy and development. I was drawn away from drk and toward Monero because, like some of the BTC devs, I saw a real path toward an e-cash and a dev team with a legitimate goal and path. If you're a drk defender, ask yourself, "Are the criticism of drk rational? Am I being rational when I defend against these criticisms?" If you just believe the Monero devs are jealous and making attack vectors up, you're probably on the way to shitsville--as in "Oh, shit! Why didn't I listen more carefully?"

Ok that's a triple-troll combo, i'm posting.

1. How come you all sound like News Anchors? "The block reward was then DRAMATICALLY LOWERED"..."They won't listen to the HARD FACTS"....

2. No one is stupid enough to believe that you are here for altruistic reasons.  No one buys the 'sudden shock  ' drama-queen BS like you only just found out.  DRK price takes off and suddenly 3000 XMR drones fall from sky all shocked at the same time.  It's a bit much.  Investors aren't that stupid either.

3. The market doesn't care about the instamine because it never became an issue.  Everyone can see how much work the dev is doing and what is coming next and when.  Plus he is delivering stuff the market really wants, like instant transactions.  Investors will take all this in context.  They already are doing, as you can see on the btc/dash chart on all the major exchanges.

1. Does it matter if I sound like a news anchor? Hardly seems relevant. The dramatic lowering of block reward is scammy at best--if Evan wasn't the one who benefited most from this scenario, he would have most likely relaunched the coin. It's there, no one can wish it away, or say that no one cares--I care, and my mom tells me I'm someone. If it was an accident, cool, but then you run into the question of, "Do I want someone who has these types of accidents developing a serious coin?" I answered no, but you're free to look past warning  signs like this.

2. People can just as easily go to sdc or anon coin for all I care. Your project is the one we're discussing. I know why I chose Monero (I wan't privacy and a dev team committed to using the best approaches available), but that doesn't mean other people will have a different list--I would say if you're looking for a coin that puts the highest premium on marketing and has more room to grow than drk, go with sdc--I wouldn't hold it, but if you have a pure profit mentality, this seems a better fit than drk.

3. Popularity now doesn't equal success later and you don't know why people are really buying your coin. I know why I'm staying away from it--weak privacy features, weak trust, and there is a better coin available for my needs.

1. trying to say that at the time, no one thought it was dramatic. now DASH is the top alt after LTC, it's easy to use hindsight to say it was dramatic.  It wasn't, it was just a random coin launch on BCT with 10 others that day for people to take a break from DOGE.  You could have gone and instamined too if you had found the right coin and chosen to mine it.

2. it's just the party line that coins like DRK are 'marketing' and 'greedy' and the people are 'stupid'. but ask yourself how true is this really?  right now drk devs are slaving away developing features like first crypto you can spend without having to go and make a cup of tea while you wait.  while no less than 5 of your devs have been on this thread making multiple accusations against drk.  how much of the monero story is hype and how much is being delivered?  we have totally opposite opinions on this obviously.

3. Sure, the usual opinion. but just saying drk is insecure and weak doesn't make it so, so maybe the market is smarter than you think, each to his own anyway

1. Doesn't matter how it looked at the time (or how you want it to have looked), many coins are/were using fast/insta mine techniques to raise money followed by pump and dumps to reach maximum btc accumulation--your coin looks like this to me. Thankfully i can use my own good judgement and avoid things that look and smell scammy. Also, you dev said it was an accident, so are you saying it is not? And furthermore, I don't want to own or be part of an instamine--I don't know if you're projecting greed onto me, but you really do need to know how bad statements like this sound.

2. I don't know that your devs are slaving away--they should be finding a way out of centralized masternodes and other privacy flawed strategies--but more to the point of your comparison, not one of your devs has ever offered a valid critique of Monero's privacy features, and thankfully Monero's devs will point out flaws within another coin. This is how antifragile should work, so instead of using at as a weak argument, yopu should be thanking them for taking the time to point out flaws, that if fixed, would improve your coin.

3. This: www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2zufu1/a_great_podcast_by_lets_talk_bitcoin_discussing/cpmvogy?context=3

1. Ok that's your opinion. For me I would rather all coin Devs I invest in have upto maybe 5% of the supply to incentivize them to actually do work, the same as how I don't invest in startup companies where the CEO isn't incentivized sufficiently - because it's the best way to get them to deliver.  Saying this is a negative thing is backwards to me.  No VC would touch it for a start. Obviously you have to exclude coins like 'bang' or 'boom' or whatever that are clearly P&D vehicles, just coins where you have synergy with the long term aims and pass your own due diligence.  Secondly, scam and instamine are 2 seperate things.  A dev can choose whatever they want for their coin, it's not illegal.  The scam comes in when a dev instamines and then doesn't deliver what he says he will to profit from the investors, and then dumps, that's a scam or more specifically a ponzi scheme.  That hasn't happened with DRK - instead, after 1 year, it's the top alt and just cracked instant transactions plus anonymity.  So no, I don't think the instamine is a 'scam', it's the best project I invested in because the 20 other alts I invested in, the devs either didn't develop or ran off and I had to learn a lesson lol.  DRK is still here and going strong and no one can argue they aren't busting a nut in terms of development because it's all public...

2. I don't think masternodes are centralized because I have one and it's just a wallet running in masternode mode on a shit PC.  It's just the same as a fullnode.  All the XMR accusations just show lack of knowledge.  All aspects of the crypto p2p paradigm transpose to the 2nd tier, you basically already have the aspects with BTC full node network.  You had monero devs here saying things like 'without failovers the MN network is insecure' - so even basic knowledge of how P2P network functions is aparently lacking. And saying all the nodes are on amazon so the NSA can snoop them - MN are in 30 countries with different governments and mostly small hosting companies some that accept DRK, anyway.   Last, why does a DRK dev need to comment on Monero? its doing just fine.  If monero ever gets off Poloniex and shows that the real market wants it,  maybe DRK can learn something.  

3. can't listen right now but thanks i will later

IMO having a instamine(Where blockreward/coinsupply is manually changed by dev) or premine(coins mined before release) in a cryptocurrency is intolerable.. These arent companies, they're cryptocurrencies, or at least supposed to be(A lot arent acting like it). Premines/Instamines shouldnt be allowed in a "currency", a stock sure, but currency no.