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Author Topic: I am pretty confident we are the new wealthy elite, gentlemen.  (Read 507723 times)
chopstick
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September 25, 2014, 02:39:08 PM
 #1881


The difficulty is now too high for investments in mining to really be profitable unless you do it really big... which most people cannot afford to do..

Honestly I can make 100 or 200 per day selling BTC on localbitcoins.com, which I think is a lot more profitable and less risky than mining.


Do you buy from exchanges and sell locally?

Coinbase and sell locally/online.

I would actually make a lot more $ if I didn't have to wait 4 damn business days between purchases.

It is possible to wire $ to an exchange but you still have to wait 2-3 days for the wire to go through and it is possible the price could rise before then, causing a loss on the trade.

You're eventually going to get caught and prosecuted for money laundering and unlicensed money transmitting. I hope you're not in the US.

http://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/bsa/title18b.html

In my opinion, this is  just paranoia.

I don't even make 50k per year profit doing this. There are hundreds, if not thousands of people doing the exact same thing as I am, and a lot of them are professional full-time traders that don't have any problems.

And out of these thousands of people the only 2 cases we know about are the 2 in Florida.. who were both very high volume sellers, and who were also set-up by the cops where they apparently mentioned illegal activities (using stolen credit cards etc...) so obviously if you are a BTC seller you must not under any circumstances sell BTC to someone who mentions illegal activity.

Now, if we see a major crackdown on the  "unlicensed money transmitters" then things might change, and it would have a big impact on this whole industry. I think the outcome of the cases mentioned above, will have implications for the future on this.

But as it stands, I don't think a small fry like myself has much to worry about as long as I pay my frickin' taxes like everybody else.
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September 25, 2014, 04:44:39 PM
 #1882

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sad days when people are too scared of their govt. to trade a few bits of harmless electronic data between them without threat of jail time ... is it really this bad?


Yes, Marcus... that's kinda my point.

The original poster IS correct that trading a little btc person to person for cash from time to time actually does seem to be a decent way to make a little profit from holding bitcoin and being involved in the "BTC Scene" these days... especially as the price has been dipping last few months and we're all WAITING for the next big run-up to finally get started.

More people doing this also could enable MORE people to EASILY get a little bitcoin, getting MORE folks started using it and learning about it all and how it all works.  If that happened, it would help the overall bitcoin economy grow, and THAT in turn would improve the odds of the price increase we all want to see, actually happening.

But it seems like the "OMG If I Sell BTC For Cash Then Big Bad Scary John Law Is Gonna Break Down My Door And Throw My Ass In Federal Prison" kind of irrational fear is preventing more people from considering actually doing this.

What I wanna know is very simple: IS this fear really grounded in reality? or is it just as you say, people are "too scared of their govt"?  Huh

It's not really an irrational fear but it's doubtful it will happen on really small amounts. It's just like all the thousands of people that used Silk Road to buy marijuana. Is it technically illegal - yes. Is the government going to go after you for buying a small quantity for personal use - probably not.

In order to exchange dollars for Bitcoin you need to have a license and follow AML/KYC laws. One of the great Bitcoin pioneers, Charlie Shrem, is going to jail because he did it but he was a big fish. You are a baby minnow. They won't do anything unless you rub their nose in it or they want you for something else and that's just a charge they tack on (don't smoke a joint in a police station go to the park around the corner).


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September 25, 2014, 11:15:09 PM
 #1883

Will anybody here keep mining a $350 bitcoin? A $100 bitcoin? Thoughts?

The economics are clear. As long as there is someone, somewhere - anyone, anywhere - who wants to transact in Bitcoin, there will be a profit to be made in mining. Change in difficulty is designed to scale not only up, but down as well.

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September 25, 2014, 11:29:42 PM
 #1884

Will anybody here keep mining a $350 bitcoin? A $100 bitcoin? Thoughts?

The economics are clear. As long as there is someone, somewhere - anyone, anywhere - who wants to transact in Bitcoin, there will be a profit to be made in mining. Change in difficulty is designed to scale not only up, but down as well.

I'm sure there are enough people here who between them would happily buy all of the coins at, say, $1 each. So I think its fair to say BTC will always have value (short of some event which renders the protocol insecure). If that were to happen, the price would increase once again as it gets bought back up, thus it would seem that BTC should prove incredibly resilient despite the volatility.

I'm sure plenty of people realise this, hence the long term bullish outlook. But for any newbies who haven't considered this dynamic, have a think about the implications.
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September 25, 2014, 11:30:54 PM
 #1885

sad days when people are too scared of their govt. to trade a few bits of harmless electronic data between them without threat of jail time ... is it really this bad?


Yes, Marcus... that's kinda my point.

The original poster IS correct that trading a little btc person to person for cash from time to time actually does seem to be a decent way to make a little profit from holding bitcoin and being involved in the "BTC Scene" these days... especially as the price has been dipping last few months and we're all WAITING for the next big run-up to finally get started.

More people doing this also could enable MORE people to EASILY get a little bitcoin, getting MORE folks started using it and learning about it all and how it all works.  If that happened, it would help the overall bitcoin economy grow, and THAT in turn would improve the odds of the price increase we all want to see, actually happening.

But it seems like the "OMG If I Sell BTC For Cash Then Big Bad Scary John Law Is Gonna Break Down My Door And Throw My Ass In Federal Prison" kind of irrational fear is preventing more people from considering actually doing this.

What I wanna know is very simple: IS this fear really grounded in reality? or is it just as you say, people are "too scared of their govt"?  Huh

It is a process.
Patience is a virtue, friend.

I may be wrong, I hope I am, but I don't see another run-up anytime soon; Bitcoin is a depreciating asset. Bagholding makes no sense at this point, and the leaking volume indicates the market agrees. Will anybody here keep mining a $350 bitcoin? A $100 bitcoin? Thoughts?


Good luck with your short-term vision, and apparent partial blindness regarding btc fundamentals. 

even if you have some doubts regarding the future of bitcoin, you will be safer, in my opinion, to take some stake in btc, even if its less than 1% of your wealth or alternatively 5-10 btc... otherwise you may find yourself left behind when the train leaves the station

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September 25, 2014, 11:32:59 PM
 #1886

10K+ per coin next year IMO
BlindMayorBitcorn
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September 25, 2014, 11:36:31 PM
 #1887

10K+ per coin next year IMO

That's absurd Roll Eyes

Forgive my petulance and oft-times, I fear, ill-founded criticisms, and forgive me that I have, by this time, made your eyes and head ache with my long letter. But I cannot forgo hastily the pleasure and pride of thus conversing with you.
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September 26, 2014, 12:10:08 AM
 #1888

10K+ per coin next year IMO

That's absurd Roll Eyes

HELLO?  Get a grip?  What is absurd about $10k in a year-ish, explain yourself...

Do you understand BTC fundamentals and market cap, or you just spouting off various troll talking points? 

$10k-ish seem as likely as, if NOT more likely than your suggestion of an never ending downward projection leading us to $100-ish.

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September 26, 2014, 12:35:39 AM
 #1889

10K+ per coin next year IMO

That's absurd Roll Eyes

HELLO?  Get a grip?  What is absurd about $10k in a year-ish, explain yourself...

Do you understand BTC fundamentals and market cap, or you just spouting off various troll talking points? 

$10k-ish seem as likely as, if NOT more likely than your suggestion of an never ending downward projection leading us to $100-ish.

That's always been my biggest problem with this thread: people treating bitcoins like lottery tickets. Lambo anyone?

Forgive my petulance and oft-times, I fear, ill-founded criticisms, and forgive me that I have, by this time, made your eyes and head ache with my long letter. But I cannot forgo hastily the pleasure and pride of thus conversing with you.
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September 26, 2014, 12:50:21 AM
 #1890

That's always been my biggest problem with this thread: people treating bitcoins like lottery tickets. Lambo anyone?

But there are numbers behind it. What percentage of the world currently holds bitcoins? Some trivially small amount. But despite the slow decline in price this year, massive gains in usability have been brought to the ecosystem.

Is it fantasy to think that perhaps 25 times more people are using Bitcoin this time next year? And that they would each want to have at least a measurable amount? I don't think so.

This time a year ago, $400 looked ludicrously high to many.

May not happen in a year. But it may. Year, schmear. The long term looks _very_ attractive, from my vantage point.

Anyone with a campaign ad in their signature -- for an organization with which they are not otherwise affiliated -- is automatically deducted credibility points.
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September 26, 2014, 01:00:12 AM
 #1891

10K+ per coin next year IMO

That's absurd Roll Eyes

HELLO?  Get a grip?  What is absurd about $10k in a year-ish, explain yourself...

Do you understand BTC fundamentals and market cap, or you just spouting off various troll talking points? 

$10k-ish seem as likely as, if NOT more likely than your suggestion of an never ending downward projection leading us to $100-ish.

That's always been my biggest problem with this thread: people treating bitcoins like lottery tickets. Lambo anyone?

Some people may treat bitcoins like lottery tickets; however, that is likely the exception rather than the rule... lottery tickets are much different from bitcoins, so that practice is NOT a very apt analogy b/c it oversimplifies the totality of bitcoins into one of its arguable parts. 

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September 26, 2014, 01:19:50 AM
 #1892

10K+ per coin next year IMO

That's absurd Roll Eyes

HELLO?  Get a grip?  What is absurd about $10k in a year-ish, explain yourself...

Do you understand BTC fundamentals and market cap, or you just spouting off various troll talking points? 

$10k-ish seem as likely as, if NOT more likely than your suggestion of an never ending downward projection leading us to $100-ish.

That's always been my biggest problem with this thread: people treating bitcoins like lottery tickets. Lambo anyone?

Some people may treat bitcoins like lottery tickets; however, that is likely the exception rather than the rule... lottery tickets are much different from bitcoins, so that practice is NOT a very apt analogy b/c it oversimplifies the totality of bitcoins into one of its arguable parts. 

Well, I don't see it being used as a store of value by anyone with an aversion to losing lots of it overnight..

Forgive my petulance and oft-times, I fear, ill-founded criticisms, and forgive me that I have, by this time, made your eyes and head ache with my long letter. But I cannot forgo hastily the pleasure and pride of thus conversing with you.
JayJuanGee
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September 26, 2014, 03:12:35 AM
 #1893

10K+ per coin next year IMO

That's absurd Roll Eyes

HELLO?  Get a grip?  What is absurd about $10k in a year-ish, explain yourself...

Do you understand BTC fundamentals and market cap, or you just spouting off various troll talking points? 

$10k-ish seem as likely as, if NOT more likely than your suggestion of an never ending downward projection leading us to $100-ish.

That's always been my biggest problem with this thread: people treating bitcoins like lottery tickets. Lambo anyone?

Some people may treat bitcoins like lottery tickets; however, that is likely the exception rather than the rule... lottery tickets are much different from bitcoins, so that practice is NOT a very apt analogy b/c it oversimplifies the totality of bitcoins into one of its arguable parts. 

Well, I don't see it being used as a store of value by anyone with an aversion to losing lots of it overnight..


You are over generalizing, and even inaccurately so.

Of course BTC is being used as a storage of value by a variety of people, and that storage of value of BTC may be only one portion of a variety of people's investment portfolio in order to hedge against the dollar, for example or to hedge against some other currency or asset classes. 

The proportion of a person's investment portfolio invested in BTC as a storage of value is going to vary from person to person depending upon a large variety of factors including but not  limited to: risk aversion, time-line, personal view of probabilities for various up or down BTC performance scenarios, personal inclination to act on views of the world, quantity of other financial assets, distribution of other financial assets, view of other uses of BTC (besides storage of value), etc.

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September 26, 2014, 03:21:24 AM
 #1894

When bitcoin hits 10 thousand, bitcoin will be used almost everywhere, so I will use it as regular money, and not convert it to cash. Hopefully even pay my bills with bitcoin.

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September 26, 2014, 03:29:16 AM
 #1895

hope we are  Smiley

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September 26, 2014, 04:20:20 AM
 #1896

no doubt!

Bitnet. VsAzssc95NUyf2Cam2ZuSop1vKui2vRsnb
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September 26, 2014, 04:22:59 AM
 #1897

When bitcoin hits 10 thousand, bitcoin will be used almost everywhere, so I will use it as regular money, and not convert it to cash. Hopefully even pay my bills with bitcoin.

Personally, I am of the opinion that currently the BTC infrastructure is well capable of $10k per BTC... think about it... if BTC were $1k per coin (which it has been in the last year) then the market cap is $14 billion, and if BTC is $10k, then the market cap would be $140 billion - which is NOT a lot in terms of an asset class and/or currency that serves a variety of functions including the storage and transfer of value, and BTC need not be widely adopted in order to achieve and maintain a $140 billion dollar market cap.  NONETHELESS, likely the first trip to $10k BTC is NOT going to hold, and there will remain some volatility.

Now, on the other hand, probably, the BTC infrastructure is NOT quite yet ready for a $1.4 trillion market cap (that would be $100k per coin).. Accordingly, maybe 3-5 years or longer will be necessary to continue to develop the bitcoin infrastructure in that $1.4 trillion dollar market cap direction, and possibly $1.4 trillion as a market cap would bring considerably greater adoption to BTC; however, even $1.4 trillion in today's dollars is only about 20% the market cap of gold.... far from establishing a pervasive world-wide phenomenon.

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September 26, 2014, 10:28:57 AM
 #1898

When bitcoin hits 10 thousand, bitcoin will be used almost everywhere, so I will use it as regular money, and not convert it to cash. Hopefully even pay my bills with bitcoin.

Personally, I am of the opinion that currently the BTC infrastructure is well capable of $10k per BTC... think about it... if BTC were $1k per coin (which it has been in the last year) then the market cap is $14 billion, and if BTC is $10k, then the market cap would be $140 billion - which is NOT a lot in terms of an asset class and/or currency that serves a variety of functions including the storage and transfer of value, and BTC need not be widely adopted in order to achieve and maintain a $140 billion dollar market cap.  NONETHELESS, likely the first trip to $10k BTC is NOT going to hold, and there will remain some volatility.

Now, on the other hand, probably, the BTC infrastructure is NOT quite yet ready for a $1.4 trillion market cap (that would be $100k per coin).. Accordingly, maybe 3-5 years or longer will be necessary to continue to develop the bitcoin infrastructure in that $1.4 trillion dollar market cap direction, and possibly $1.4 trillion as a market cap would bring considerably greater adoption to BTC; however, even $1.4 trillion in today's dollars is only about 20% the market cap of gold.... far from establishing a pervasive world-wide phenomenon.

...as it continues to bleed value. Hmmm.

You are bleeding value from this thread, BlindMayorBitcorn, because you are NOT really saying anything substantively, but instead just picking holes and probing for BTC flaws... but let me entertain you, briefly.

More or less, BTC prices have been bleeding value for nearly the past 10 months; however, the last 10 months of BTC is NOT the totality of BTC's prices NOR the totality of BTC's history NOR the totality of BTC's building of fundamentals.. though there have been a lot of BTC fundamentals built within the last 10 months, including network, merchants, liquidation opportunities, ATMs, government regulations (some acceptance), increased world wide adoption, increased public awareness, etc.  Accordingly, you need to consider BTC future value and price beyond its mere price today.





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September 26, 2014, 10:32:58 AM
 #1899

the surge when it hits will be quite substantial their is many other factors at play though, the primary one at this stage though will be exchange collapses,

www.cryptocurrencycentralbank.com 

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September 26, 2014, 10:50:31 AM
 #1900

the surge when it hits will be quite substantial their is many other factors at play though, the primary one at this stage though will be exchange collapses,

Your use of the term "surge" and "exchange collapses" in the same sentence is confusing.

The term surge is generally used to describe a positive direction in BTC prices; however, I would imagine that Exchange collapses would cause downward pressures upon BTC prices, especially if there has been fractional reserve type shenanigans or stealing and/or disappearance of large quantities of coins.

Surely, it is NOT inevitable that in the near term future that any large exchange will collapse and/or include BTC shenanigans..   Do you have further info?

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