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Author Topic: I am pretty confident we are the new wealthy elite, gentlemen.  (Read 508351 times)
BlindMayorBitcorn
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September 21, 2014, 06:35:46 PM
 #1841


The difficulty is now too high for investments in mining to really be profitable unless you do it really big... which most people cannot afford to do..

Honestly I can make 100 or 200 per day selling BTC on localbitcoins.com, which I think is a lot more profitable and less risky than mining.


Do you buy from exchanges and sell locally?

Coinbase and sell locally/online.

I would actually make a lot more $ if I didn't have to wait 4 damn business days between purchases.

It is possible to wire $ to an exchange but you still have to wait 2-3 days for the wire to go through and it is possible the price could rise before then, causing a loss on the trade.

You're eventually going to get caught and prosecuted for money laundering and unlicensed money transmitting. I hope you're not in the US.

http://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/bsa/title18b.html
And your name is QuestionAuthority?

Sometimes when you question authority the answer is "no" Undecided

Forgive my petulance and oft-times, I fear, ill-founded criticisms, and forgive me that I have, by this time, made your eyes and head ache with my long letter. But I cannot forgo hastily the pleasure and pride of thus conversing with you.
"There should not be any signed int. If you've found a signed int somewhere, please tell me (within the next 25 years please) and I'll change it to unsigned int." -- Satoshi
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stevegee58
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September 21, 2014, 06:43:19 PM
 #1842


Coinbase and sell locally/online.

I would actually make a lot more $ if I didn't have to wait 4 damn business days between purchases.

It is possible to wire $ to an exchange but you still have to wait 2-3 days for the wire to go through and it is possible the price could rise before then, causing a loss on the trade.

You're eventually going to get caught and prosecuted for money laundering and unlicensed money transmitting. I hope you're not in the US.

http://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/bsa/title18b.html
[/quote]

Meh.  The Feds only care about the big guys.  Those they'll notice and regulate.  They won't bother with the guys exchanging BTC for USD in a Starbucks.

You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
Lohoris
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September 21, 2014, 09:47:49 PM
 #1843

Meh.  The Feds only care about the big guys.  Those they'll notice and regulate.  They won't bother with the guys exchanging BTC for USD in a Starbucks.
Wishful thinking.

1LohorisJie8bGGG7X4dCS9MAVsTEbzrhu
DefaultTrust is very BAD.
justusranvier
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September 21, 2014, 10:07:15 PM
 #1844

Meh.  The Feds only care about the big guys.  Those they'll notice and regulate.  They won't bother with the guys exchanging BTC for USD in a Starbucks.
Wishful thinking.
Remember that kid in grade school who would get caught doing something then would immediately start naming all the other people who hadn't been caught to get them in trouble too?

Apparently most adults never emotionally mature beyond the grade school level, or at least enough of them don't that the feds can count on somebody complaining about the people exchanging BTC for USD in a Starbucks to give them an excuse to take action.

http://contrariancompliance.com/2014/09/19/us-money-transmission-laws-are-worthless-and-unconstitutional/

Quote from: Aaron Greenspan
so far the only company subjected to it appears to have been mine. The vast majority of my competitors operate today without a license in any state, or operated for years without them until I sued them in federal court.
Lohoris
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September 22, 2014, 01:06:34 PM
 #1845

Apparently most adults never emotionally mature beyond the grade school level, or at least enough of them don't that the feds can count on somebody complaining about the people exchanging BTC for USD in a Starbucks to give them an excuse to take action.

http://contrariancompliance.com/2014/09/19/us-money-transmission-laws-are-worthless-and-unconstitutional/

Quote from: Aaron Greenspan
so far the only company subjected to it appears to have been mine. The vast majority of my competitors operate today without a license in any state, or operated for years without them until I sued them in federal court.
Well, this makes sense.

It's the basic principle of justice, actually.

Not sure how it is related to the posts you quoted, though.

1LohorisJie8bGGG7X4dCS9MAVsTEbzrhu
DefaultTrust is very BAD.
QuestionAuthority
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September 22, 2014, 02:13:14 PM
 #1846


The difficulty is now too high for investments in mining to really be profitable unless you do it really big... which most people cannot afford to do..

Honestly I can make 100 or 200 per day selling BTC on localbitcoins.com, which I think is a lot more profitable and less risky than mining.


Do you buy from exchanges and sell locally?

Coinbase and sell locally/online.

I would actually make a lot more $ if I didn't have to wait 4 damn business days between purchases.

It is possible to wire $ to an exchange but you still have to wait 2-3 days for the wire to go through and it is possible the price could rise before then, causing a loss on the trade.

You're eventually going to get caught and prosecuted for money laundering and unlicensed money transmitting. I hope you're not in the US.

http://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/bsa/title18b.html
And your name is QuestionAuthority?

Bill Maher questions authority. Edward Snowden breaks the law and gives up his life to question authority. I believe in people banding together to make change happen not vigilante crusades by single individuals that act unilaterally on my behalf. If you want to be a prison martyr go right ahead. Charlie Shrem decided against that idea when he made his plea deal and it was the right decision.

boumalo
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September 22, 2014, 08:10:07 PM
 #1847


The difficulty is now too high for investments in mining to really be profitable unless you do it really big... which most people cannot afford to do..

Honestly I can make 100 or 200 per day selling BTC on localbitcoins.com, which I think is a lot more profitable and less risky than mining.


Do you buy from exchanges and sell locally?

Coinbase and sell locally/online.

I would actually make a lot more $ if I didn't have to wait 4 damn business days between purchases.

It is possible to wire $ to an exchange but you still have to wait 2-3 days for the wire to go through and it is possible the price could rise before then, causing a loss on the trade.

You're eventually going to get caught and prosecuted for money laundering and unlicensed money transmitting. I hope you're not in the US.

http://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/bsa/title18b.html
And your name is QuestionAuthority?

Bill Maher questions authority. Edward Snowden breaks the law and gives up his life to question authority. I believe in people banding together to make change happen not vigilante crusades by single individuals that act unilaterally on my behalf. If you want to be a prison martyr go right ahead. Charlie Shrem decided against that idea when he made his plea deal and it was the right decision.

Bill Maher is a comic who says marxist ideas to make tens of millions of dollars a year, be loved and connected; snowden scarified everything for its beliefs but he may have broke the law doing so

kingscrown
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http://fuk.io - check it out!


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September 23, 2014, 03:39:57 AM
 #1848

cheap coins now just buy BTC with free cash and wait a year or so

JayJuanGee
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Put BTC here: 1GSwznUNG4co5rS3ctmRgtYGcWiHAnwAyj


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September 23, 2014, 04:05:52 AM
 #1849


The difficulty is now too high for investments in mining to really be profitable unless you do it really big... which most people cannot afford to do..

Honestly I can make 100 or 200 per day selling BTC on localbitcoins.com, which I think is a lot more profitable and less risky than mining.


Do you buy from exchanges and sell locally?

Coinbase and sell locally/online.

I would actually make a lot more $ if I didn't have to wait 4 damn business days between purchases.

It is possible to wire $ to an exchange but you still have to wait 2-3 days for the wire to go through and it is possible the price could rise before then, causing a loss on the trade.

You're eventually going to get caught and prosecuted for money laundering and unlicensed money transmitting. I hope you're not in the US.

http://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/bsa/title18b.html
And your name is QuestionAuthority?

Bill Maher questions authority. Edward Snowden breaks the law and gives up his life to question authority. I believe in people banding together to make change happen not vigilante crusades by single individuals that act unilaterally on my behalf. If you want to be a prison martyr go right ahead. Charlie Shrem decided against that idea when he made his plea deal and it was the right decision.

Bill Maher is a comic who says marxist ideas to make tens of millions of dollars a year, be loved and connected; snowden scarified everything for its beliefs but he may have broke the law doing so

Pretty big personal sacrifice for Snowden to leak that information in order to shed light on some of the down and dirty of the government's actions.  Very rare person would be willing to make such an individual sacrifice.    One question remains, too, about whether we are better off as a society by knowing these kinds of things regarding governmental actions and the use of technology?  I am fairly certain that people wonder how secure that they are in their internet life, including bitcoin transactions, if the government has the potential ability to engage in ongoing monitoring of transactions... and we may NOT even know it.. and we may be an innocent target or we may be a fall guy because there could be guilt by association or guilt because we thought that we had free speech but we supported the wrong cause.. or we spoke up regarding governmental actions that we thought were misleading the people.  NOT easy to fairly effectively shed light on the underlying nefarious conduct that may be occurring by people who were elected or people who were appointed or people who were contracted out to carry out duties that were supposedly on behalf of "the people."

hdbuck
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September 23, 2014, 07:46:12 AM
 #1850


The difficulty is now too high for investments in mining to really be profitable unless you do it really big... which most people cannot afford to do..

Honestly I can make 100 or 200 per day selling BTC on localbitcoins.com, which I think is a lot more profitable and less risky than mining.


Do you buy from exchanges and sell locally?

Coinbase and sell locally/online.

I would actually make a lot more $ if I didn't have to wait 4 damn business days between purchases.

It is possible to wire $ to an exchange but you still have to wait 2-3 days for the wire to go through and it is possible the price could rise before then, causing a loss on the trade.

You're eventually going to get caught and prosecuted for money laundering and unlicensed money transmitting. I hope you're not in the US.

http://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/bsa/title18b.html
And your name is QuestionAuthority?

Bill Maher questions authority. Edward Snowden breaks the law and gives up his life to question authority. I believe in people banding together to make change happen not vigilante crusades by single individuals that act unilaterally on my behalf. If you want to be a prison martyr go right ahead. Charlie Shrem decided against that idea when he made his plea deal and it was the right decision.

Bill Maher is a comic who says marxist ideas to make tens of millions of dollars a year, be loved and connected; snowden scarified everything for its beliefs but he may have broke the law doing so

Snowden is a freakin hero, yet it seems no one really care.. blind sheeps in their consumerism prison, letting murica behave as they always do, bombing and comploting to rule (enslave) the world.
JayJuanGee
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Put BTC here: 1GSwznUNG4co5rS3ctmRgtYGcWiHAnwAyj


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September 23, 2014, 09:19:15 AM
 #1851


The difficulty is now too high for investments in mining to really be profitable unless you do it really big... which most people cannot afford to do..

Honestly I can make 100 or 200 per day selling BTC on localbitcoins.com, which I think is a lot more profitable and less risky than mining.


Do you buy from exchanges and sell locally?

Coinbase and sell locally/online.

I would actually make a lot more $ if I didn't have to wait 4 damn business days between purchases.

It is possible to wire $ to an exchange but you still have to wait 2-3 days for the wire to go through and it is possible the price could rise before then, causing a loss on the trade.

You're eventually going to get caught and prosecuted for money laundering and unlicensed money transmitting. I hope you're not in the US.

http://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/bsa/title18b.html
And your name is QuestionAuthority?

Bill Maher questions authority. Edward Snowden breaks the law and gives up his life to question authority. I believe in people banding together to make change happen not vigilante crusades by single individuals that act unilaterally on my behalf. If you want to be a prison martyr go right ahead. Charlie Shrem decided against that idea when he made his plea deal and it was the right decision.

Bill Maher is a comic who says marxist ideas to make tens of millions of dollars a year, be loved and connected; snowden scarified everything for its beliefs but he may have broke the law doing so

Snowden is a freakin hero, yet it seems no one really care.. blind sheeps in their consumerism prison, letting murica behave as they always do, bombing and comploting to rule (enslave) the world.

HDBuck:    I realize that you are trying to maintain the image that you are NOT influenced by my prophetic posts, but really, dude, you stole all my idears, in your post.   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy    I don't mind though, because I am a kind of charitable and sharing guy..  Tongue Tongue  I cannot help myself like that.   Cool

rpietila
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September 23, 2014, 10:31:23 AM
 #1852

Snowden is a freakin hero, yet it seems no one really care.. blind sheeps in their consumerism prison, letting murica behave as they always do, bombing and comploting to rule (enslave) the world.

Snowden is right on par with MLK. Everybody knows that already. In which way should we "care" more?

blatchcorn
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September 23, 2014, 11:21:44 AM
 #1853

Snowden is a freakin hero, yet it seems no one really care.. blind sheeps in their consumerism prison, letting murica behave as they always do, bombing and comploting to rule (enslave) the world.

Snowden is right on par with MLK. Everybody knows that already. In which way should we "care" more?
Not everyone knows that, which is why people need to care more
Oscilson
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September 23, 2014, 11:27:32 AM
 #1854

Snowden is a freakin hero, yet it seems no one really care.. blind sheeps in their consumerism prison, letting murica behave as they always do, bombing and comploting to rule (enslave) the world.

Snowden is right on par with MLK. Everybody knows that already. In which way should we "care" more?
Not everyone knows that, which is why people need to care more

I know it now.
KeyJockey
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September 24, 2014, 02:44:40 AM
 #1855


You're eventually going to get caught and prosecuted for money laundering and unlicensed money transmitting. I hope you're not in the US.

http://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/bsa/title18b.html

Hi QuestionAuthority,

Thanks for posting, I've actually been researching this lately and would like to know more specifics IF you have details??

In particular, it's been my understanding (so far) that selling bitcoin in a direct person to person transfer (i.e. the proverbial meeting at Starbucks to exchange BTC for fiat) does NOT qualify as "money transmitting" under the law, for two primary reasons:

1. There is no "third party" involved who is "temporarily holding" the funds on behalf of the exchanging parties (i.e. as in Western Union)
2. Bitcoin is considered (by IRS for example) to be a commodity, or "value store" like maybe a gold coin or rare baseball card

Of these two, it's the first one that seems stronger to me. 

The asset in this case (bitcoin) is being simply handed over (albeit electronically) from one person to another, same way you might hand over the gold coin or baseball card DIRECTLY to the buyer, who is standing right in front of you there in the Starbucks.

Then, he hands you the fiat currency as payment.

There's no third party involved here, which appears is necessary (to me?) for the "money transmitter" element.

Of course, there IS the total bitcoin network but it's not quite the same thing: even ON the bitcoin network, this "asset" is immediately placed into the direct control of ONE party to the OTHER party (i.e. wallet to wallet, so again, no third party).

Again, if this is not correct in your understanding and selling bitcoin for cash person to person really DOES qualify under this law, I'd like to hear more specifically exactly WHY you say so (and please cite existing cases, prosecutions, etc... if they exist... and please NOT just that one arrest of that guy in Florida, i.e. the single instance LocalBitcoins.com case, that's already well known...

lyth0s
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September 24, 2014, 02:51:13 AM
 #1856

To the IRS Bitcoin is a commodity. To the rest of the government it is potentially a money and thus you would not be protected by stating that you are simply selling a commodity. If you are going to be exchanging a lot of bitcoins/USD you really need a money transmitting license and you WILL need to comply with KYC-AML laws otherwise they will nail you to the wall, if for nothing else but to make an example of you.

It's not worth jail time. Just don't do it, and if you're going to do it, make sure its on a very small scale and with trustworthy people. IE selling a few coins to a friend probably won't land you in a federal prison Tongue

Monero - Truly Anonymous Digital Cash.
KeyJockey
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September 24, 2014, 03:35:15 AM
 #1857

To the IRS Bitcoin is a commodity. To the rest of the government it is potentially a money and thus you would not be protected by stating that you are simply selling a commodity. If you are going to be exchanging a lot of bitcoins/USD you really need a money transmitting license and you WILL need to comply with KYC-AML laws otherwise they will nail you to the wall, if for nothing else but to make an example of you.


Thanks for comment lyth0s... again I'm just researching this info for specifics -- my understanding is $2999 maximum per person per day OR LOWER would be adequate compliance with these FINCEN laws (i.e. if a localbitcoins trader stays under this, they're prolly okay?  Would going OVER this constitute what you're loosely referring to here as "a lot"... and conversely staying below this would be "not a lot"...?)

But, again, does anyone have a SPECIFIC case or cases, already prosecuted and convicted, where someone HAS in fact been "nailed to the wall" precisely for this scenario, OR is this just an assumption on the part of most (prudent? cautious? or paranoid?) people here, who've considered this situation and are just ASSUMING this is what the "authorities" will do...?
marcus_of_augustus
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September 24, 2014, 03:41:08 AM
 #1858

To the IRS Bitcoin is a commodity. To the rest of the government it is potentially a money and thus you would not be protected by stating that you are simply selling a commodity. If you are going to be exchanging a lot of bitcoins/USD you really need a money transmitting license and you WILL need to comply with KYC-AML laws otherwise they will nail you to the wall, if for nothing else but to make an example of you.

It's not worth jail time. Just don't do it, and if you're going to do it, make sure its on a very small scale and with trustworthy people. IE selling a few coins to a friend probably won't land you in a federal prison Tongue

sad days when people are too scared of their govt. to trade a few bits of harmless electronic data between them without threat of jail time ... is it really this bad?

QuestionAuthority
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September 24, 2014, 05:43:22 AM
 #1859


You're eventually going to get caught and prosecuted for money laundering and unlicensed money transmitting. I hope you're not in the US.

http://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/bsa/title18b.html

Hi QuestionAuthority,

Thanks for posting, I've actually been researching this lately and would like to know more specifics IF you have details??

In particular, it's been my understanding (so far) that selling bitcoin in a direct person to person transfer (i.e. the proverbial meeting at Starbucks to exchange BTC for fiat) does NOT qualify as "money transmitting" under the law, for two primary reasons:

1. There is no "third party" involved who is "temporarily holding" the funds on behalf of the exchanging parties (i.e. as in Western Union)
2. Bitcoin is considered (by IRS for example) to be a commodity, or "value store" like maybe a gold coin or rare baseball card

Of these two, it's the first one that seems stronger to me. 

The asset in this case (bitcoin) is being simply handed over (albeit electronically) from one person to another, same way you might hand over the gold coin or baseball card DIRECTLY to the buyer, who is standing right in front of you there in the Starbucks.

Then, he hands you the fiat currency as payment.

There's no third party involved here, which appears is necessary (to me?) for the "money transmitter" element.

Of course, there IS the total bitcoin network but it's not quite the same thing: even ON the bitcoin network, this "asset" is immediately placed into the direct control of ONE party to the OTHER party (i.e. wallet to wallet, so again, no third party).

Again, if this is not correct in your understanding and selling bitcoin for cash person to person really DOES qualify under this law, I'd like to hear more specifically exactly WHY you say so (and please cite existing cases, prosecutions, etc... if they exist... and please NOT just that one arrest of that guy in Florida, i.e. the single instance LocalBitcoins.com case, that's already well known...



You should PM HELP.org and ask him. I think he requested and received the definition on that and mining registration from FINCen. 

stevegee58
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September 24, 2014, 10:55:05 AM
 #1860

sad days when people are too scared of their govt. to trade a few bits of harmless electronic data between them without threat of jail time ... is it really this bad?

That's the same excuse people tried using for kiddie porn in court.  "It's just a bunch of 1's and 0's why is that a crime?"

You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
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