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Author Topic: I am pretty confident we are the new wealthy elite, gentlemen.  (Read 621901 times)
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May 29, 2016, 07:54:57 AM
 #3201

Atlas rises from the dead once again.

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May 29, 2016, 08:05:14 AM
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and so I am. but when I think about the rate of bitcoin in 2007. it make me a little selfish. I thought perhaps I whould have join bitcoin in that time . now I will have a good about of bitcoin  and definantly we will be counted in elite class. but still I am hopeful to raise to that position in near future.
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May 29, 2016, 03:00:29 PM
 #3203

There is something to be said about enjoying the journey for sure! It is so weird waking up day after day to amazing growth. We are still so new to this it is almost shocking. I keep thinking and waiting for this huge crash back to reality but then we had this supposed "crash" this week and we are still well above our initial investment.  

We are relatively late to this too. I can only imagine what it is like for some of you that bought coins in the $1-$10 range and held until now. Crazy.
But part of the fun of all of this is the anticipation for sure. Even if Bitcoin does not reach the super high milestones predicted by some, it has been way too much fun so far! Almost addicting really. I might need some therapy here soon.


most of those people have sold at least some of their coins by now.

yeah there might be a handful of people who still hold a few 1000 coins, but those are really rare.



How do you prove that is so rare?
Bitcoin used to sell in public for as low as $0.003/btc (yes ~one third of a penny per BTC), so you could mine/buy many thousands and (after losing/giving away over half) still easily have more than several thousand left.
Accept and worship your elite Bitcoin overlords.  Cheesy

well, for one, there are only 15 million bitcoin in circulation, so at most 15000 people can possibly even own 1000 coins.

but there's also a website that tracks all bitcoin wallets (note how all transactions are on the blockchain, so it's easy to watch all wallets and see how much is in each wallet) and makes a rich list, knd of like the Quote 500, but more accurate.

Here's an overview of people above a certain threshold amount of bitcoin.
Quote
1BTC:   465,992
10BTC:   125,460
100BTC:   12,907
1,000BTC:   1,585
10,000BTC:   110
100,000BTC:   3
Total(>0BTC):   7,250,077

as you can see, there's only 1500 wallets with more than 1000 bitcoin in them.

There's about 13000 wallets with more than 100 bitcoin in them

For the record, there are about 11 million millionares in the US alone.

There are about 1800 billionaires in the world.

So, even if 1 bitcoin would become $1,000,000 then it would not create "too many billionaires."

In fact, the wealth distribution would be similar to how it is now if bitcoin would be $1,000,000

which only further supports the assumption that bitcoin still has plenty of room to grow.

Also since there's only about 7 million non-empty wallets (and many people use more than 1 wallet) not even 1 in a 1000 people even owns a fraction of a bitcoin. And not even 1 in 10,000 own more than 1 bitcoin.

Are you seeing why i keep saying that bitcoin will not stop rising in price any time soon, and $100,000~10,000,000 prices are not only likely, but ultimately inevitable. (Assuming mass adoption, which at this point in itself is almost inevitable as even banks and governments are getting involved).

Also note that some of these huge (1000+) wallets belong to satoshi and others are for example cold wallets of casinos or exchanges. So the actual amount of bitcoin super-rich is tiny. The 3 wallets that contain over 100,000 bitcoin are most likely all belonging to satoshi. Actually they're probably exchanges, seeing as how much money is moving around regularly on these addresses

In a time window of 5 to 10 years I expect bitcoin to be somewhere between $100,000 and $10,000,000 in price range. (My best guess would be somewhere near 3.5 million) Depending on the scale of the adoption. Barring mayor problems along the road.

On top of all this, this chart (http://ondn.net:800/topamount) shows that even though most holders have been accumulating bitcoin, the total amount held by the top 100 wealthiest bitcoiners has actually gone down recently, while the top 1000 wealthiest has gone up. (although it's tracking wallets, not persons, so maybe they just split their money over more wallets). Either way, it doesn't look like "the rich are getting richer" and it seems like the wealth is getting distributed slightly more evenly. (As you would expect from the way bitcoin is designed, even though perfect wealth distribution is impossible in any system, bitcoin is more fair than fiat by design).



I don't really disagree with a lot of your analysis Zimmah - yet I am a bit concern about part of your premise about addresses.

The longer someone owns bitcoin and the more that s/he uses bitcoin, the more addresses s/he creates, and even some older and more sophisticated users advocate using a different address for each transaction.

I've been using bitcoin about 2.5 years, and I can also be a witness to this kind of address generation.  At first I only had a few places that I held bitcoins, and I barely did any transactions. My use of bitcoin has increased.  I think I do some off chain transactions with various (third party holder of my coins) , yet I probably generate a new address on average about once every 3 or 4 on chain transactions.  I estimate that  I've probably generated more than 40 bitcoin addresses through my various usages in such a short period of time, and some addresses hold more bitcoins than others, and several addresses have fraction of coins remaining.



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May 29, 2016, 03:07:44 PM
 #3204

Atlas rises from the dead once again.
yes, its nice to see that bitcoin is growing back up to the all time high after it being down to about 200 dollars per bitcoin only, since that time the price of it already has tripled

im also really confident that the price in the future wont stop growing at a very rapid pace in my opinion thus it will allow us to make some good money and we will be wealthy

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May 29, 2016, 03:08:11 PM
 #3205

and so I am. but when I think about the rate of bitcoin in 2007. it make me a little selfish. I thought perhaps I whould have join bitcoin in that time . now I will have a good about of bitcoin  and definantly we will be counted in elite class. but still I am hopeful to raise to that position in near future.

Bitcoin didn't exist in 2007, genesis block was mined in 2009-01-03

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May 29, 2016, 03:15:31 PM
 #3206

yes i agree with that on halving we gonna be rich if you hoard some bitcoin on your wallet that will be more beneficial for all of us. See the price of the bitcoin it raises up. Because of to many buy's because halving is near they gonna hoard bitcoins. Wealthy to does have money to buy bitcoins. Just enough to the small players that have less capital  Grin

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May 29, 2016, 03:45:44 PM
 #3207

yes i agree with that on halving we gonna be rich if you hoard some bitcoin on your wallet that will be more beneficial for all of us. See the price of the bitcoin it raises up. Because of to many buy's because halving is near they gonna hoard bitcoins. Wealthy to does have money to buy bitcoins. Just enough to the small players that have less capital  Grin
We are now successfully moving towards it and I am sure in future we gonna be super rich people, as price rise indicates that bitcoin has lot to offer in future.
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May 29, 2016, 04:35:43 PM
 #3208

Also since there's only about 7 million non-empty wallets (and many people use more than 1 wallet) not even 1 in a 1000 people even owns a fraction of a bitcoin. And not even 1 in 10,000 own more than 1 bitcoin.

Also note that some of these huge (1000+) wallets belong to satoshi and others are for example cold wallets of casinos or exchanges.

I thought Satoshi has only 50 Bitcoin addresses from mining, as he spent only once  Huh for testing purpose - he might be the only super holder who never spends.

Also some of the wealthiest addresses belongs to exchanges holding all customer Bitcoins in one address - and you would be surprised at the amount of people holding coins at exchanges, sometimes not even trading!

I liked reading your post and the fact this thread wakes up pretty regularly when the Bitcoin price rises.

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May 29, 2016, 04:51:45 PM
 #3209

[...]
Faster blocks are definitely not an improvement.

It only took dozens of pumped and dumped altcoins for the (newbie) cryto currency world to realize that.

Still I really like Bitcoin's instant 0-confirmation. You are not in doubt for minutes whether or not the transaction will likely be successful. That the actual settlement takes a bit longer, who cares.

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May 29, 2016, 05:05:22 PM
 #3210

Sooner or later, i hope the day of "10k a pop" prices will come, and it aint that insane of a thought when you think about it.
Every time theres a price rise, threads like this one gets remembered, and im actually happy that there are still positive thinking people around ^^
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May 29, 2016, 09:03:18 PM
 #3211

Still I really like Bitcoin's instant 0-confirmation. You are not in doubt for minutes whether or not the transaction will likely be successful.

In an era of full blocks, you can no longer trust zero-conf will ever confirm.

Anyone with a campaign ad in their signature -- for an organization with which they are not otherwise affiliated -- is automatically deducted credibility points.

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May 29, 2016, 09:25:32 PM
 #3212

Still I really like Bitcoin's instant 0-confirmation. You are not in doubt for minutes whether or not the transaction will likely be successful.

In an era of full blocks, you can no longer trust zero-conf will ever confirm.

True. I do however pay an above average fee to increase my odds. If only there was a perfect way to increase the tx/sec.. Really curious to see how this plays out. One way or the other, but it will.


Back on topic: by being able to actually get (into) Bitcoin, you are already part of a wealthy minority. I really am supportive to the projects that make Bitcoin available to the rest of the world, providing the financial tools currently only available to the wealthy elite.

- You can figure out what will happen, not when /Warren Buffett
- Pay any Bitcoin address privately with a little help of Monero:
 on your mark, get set, go!
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May 30, 2016, 12:32:22 AM
 #3213

http://astrohacker.com/ahc/bitcoin-is-the-economic-singularity/

After reading this, the scale of black market and digital economies and the effect Bitcoin will have on them I am pretty certain we are going to be very wealthy men -- even with a sum as small as 10 Bitcoins. It's just so hard to believe. We are only in the beginning storms with these significant rallies from 10 to 20 dollars. I will not be surprised to see prices from hundreds to thousands in the coming months.

The world just isn't going to be the same and we have been blessed as the pioneers.

What are you going to do with your Bitcoin wealth once your coins hit upwards of $10,000 a pop?
I'm sure you're wealthy now because this thread was posted 5 years ago. wow. I think you have many bitcoins already.

anyway I will sell my bitcoins if it would hit $10,000. that's crazy value.

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May 30, 2016, 01:47:21 AM
 #3214

Exchanges have way more Bitcoin than anyone else, it's not real BTC

I'd be worried about an exchange keeping all its Bitcoin in  one wallet to show up as a whale.    Seems like long ago they should have found out how banks limit withdrawals safely over time not allow it all at once, Im sure most must do so now after we've seen how these things play out

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May 30, 2016, 01:54:23 AM
 #3215

Exchanges have way more Bitcoin than anyone else, it's not real BTC

I'd be worried about an exchange keeping all its Bitcoin in  one wallet to show up as a whale.    Seems like long ago they should have found out how banks limit withdrawals safely over time not allow it all at once, Im sure most must do so now after we've seen how these things play out

Yes.     It would seem that for the most part, the more sophisticated players (and those holding more value in BTC) are going to figure out ways to hold those coins in a variety of addresses, and have differing levels of security and/or access concerning the coins that they hold (especially when they are owners or custodians of a large number of coins).   

Like you, STT, I am kind of having a hard time getting my head around some kind of inference that there are very many large holders that keep their coins in a small number of addresses - and so the mere fact that there are only so many addresses with a large number of coins seems to tell us little, if anything, about, the actual BTC wealth of individuals.

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May 30, 2016, 02:55:11 AM
 #3216




I don't really disagree with a lot of your analysis Zimmah - yet I am a bit concern about part of your premise about addresses.

The longer someone owns bitcoin and the more that s/he uses bitcoin, the more addresses s/he creates, and even some older and more sophisticated users advocate using a different address for each transaction.

I've been using bitcoin about 2.5 years, and I can also be a witness to this kind of address generation.  At first I only had a few places that I held bitcoins, and I barely did any transactions. My use of bitcoin has increased.  I think I do some off chain transactions with various (third party holder of my coins) , yet I probably generate a new address on average about once every 3 or 4 on chain transactions.  I estimate that  I've probably generated more than 40 bitcoin addresses through my various usages in such a short period of time, and some addresses hold more bitcoins than others, and several addresses have fraction of coins remaining.




what's the thing that concerns you about that?

The inaccuracy of the data or are you worried we run out of addresses?

The data of course is not 100% accurate, but it gives us a general idea about roughly how many people own a certain amount of bitcoin (and it's also roughly what you would expect according to zipfs law and wealth distribution).

But lets say for example that on average an user use 50 wallets and spreads his coins between them.

If an user has 10,000 bitcoin, than he could spread them in many different ways, but if he has like >100 in each wallet, then all 50 of his wallets would show up as 10 bitcoin wallets.

That would take 50 wallets out of the 10 BTC owners table to combine into 1 large wallet of 10,000 bitcoin.

Let's do something crazy and let's say we apply this to EVERY wallet (of course this is not true, but let's just assume that it is).

So let's say everyone in the below chart actually has their money spread around in 10 wallets and for simplicity sake lets assume the money is spread evenly between those wallets. (let's ignore the 3 mega-wallets, they don't really count).

(quoted the numbers for convience) This is the chart as it is.
Quote
1BTC:   465,992
10BTC:   125,460
100BTC:   12,907
1,000BTC:   1,585
10,000BTC:   110
100,000BTC:   3
Total(>0BTC):   7,250,077

Now let's see what the converted chart would look like

Quote
1BTC:   771,606
10BTC:   59,145
100BTC:   13,836
1,000BTC:   1448
10,000BTC:   169
100,000BTC:   14
Total(>0BTC):   725,007

As you can see, this barely changes the numbers at all, only the extremes (>0 BTC, 1BTC and 100,000 BTC change significantly (and those are outliers)).

Most likely, the truth is somewhere in between those values. So we can expect there is somewhere between 725,000 and 7,2 million unique bitcoin users, and between 60,000 and 130,000 of those have 10 or more bitcoin, and between 500,000 and 750,000 people own at least 1 full bitcoin. the other numbers are pretty similar in both scenarios so they are most likely roughly in the right ballpark already. (give or take a few %). (In reality obviously the people with less than 1 bitcoin most likely only use 1 wallet, that's why the lower end of the table is more inaccurate)

This is of course all pretty rough calculations but as you can see, splitting the money up doesn't matter that much for the statistics overall. Because for every couple of wallets combined to create a larger wallet, you will only move wallets between different classes and the whole chart will just correct itself and end up nearly exactly the same anyway.

We also won't run out of addresses because there's just so many possible addresses.

2^160 to be precise, and to put that into perspective for you, if 8 billion people would generate 1 billion addresses per second it would take 5.7 SEXTILLION years before we run out of adresses. That is nearly half a billion times the calculated age of the universe.

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2%5E160+%2F+(8+billion+*+billion+per+second)
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May 30, 2016, 06:32:14 PM
 #3217




I don't really disagree with a lot of your analysis Zimmah - yet I am a bit concern about part of your premise about addresses.

The longer someone owns bitcoin and the more that s/he uses bitcoin, the more addresses s/he creates, and even some older and more sophisticated users advocate using a different address for each transaction.

I've been using bitcoin about 2.5 years, and I can also be a witness to this kind of address generation.  At first I only had a few places that I held bitcoins, and I barely did any transactions. My use of bitcoin has increased.  I think I do some off chain transactions with various (third party holder of my coins) , yet I probably generate a new address on average about once every 3 or 4 on chain transactions.  I estimate that  I've probably generated more than 40 bitcoin addresses through my various usages in such a short period of time, and some addresses hold more bitcoins than others, and several addresses have fraction of coins remaining.




what's the thing that concerns you about that?

The inaccuracy of the data or are you worried we run out of addresses?

The data of course is not 100% accurate, but it gives us a general idea about roughly how many people own a certain amount of bitcoin (and it's also roughly what you would expect according to zipfs law and wealth distribution).

But lets say for example that on average an user use 50 wallets and spreads his coins between them.

If an user has 10,000 bitcoin, than he could spread them in many different ways, but if he has like >100 in each wallet, then all 50 of his wallets would show up as 10 bitcoin wallets.

That would take 50 wallets out of the 10 BTC owners table to combine into 1 large wallet of 10,000 bitcoin.

Let's do something crazy and let's say we apply this to EVERY wallet (of course this is not true, but let's just assume that it is).

So let's say everyone in the below chart actually has their money spread around in 10 wallets and for simplicity sake lets assume the money is spread evenly between those wallets. (let's ignore the 3 mega-wallets, they don't really count).

(quoted the numbers for convience) This is the chart as it is.
Quote
1BTC:   465,992
10BTC:   125,460
100BTC:   12,907
1,000BTC:   1,585
10,000BTC:   110
100,000BTC:   3
Total(>0BTC):   7,250,077

Now let's see what the converted chart would look like

Quote
1BTC:   771,606
10BTC:   59,145
100BTC:   13,836
1,000BTC:   1448
10,000BTC:   169
100,000BTC:   14
Total(>0BTC):   725,007

As you can see, this barely changes the numbers at all, only the extremes (>0 BTC, 1BTC and 100,000 BTC change significantly (and those are outliers)).

Most likely, the truth is somewhere in between those values. So we can expect there is somewhere between 725,000 and 7,2 million unique bitcoin users, and between 60,000 and 130,000 of those have 10 or more bitcoin, and between 500,000 and 750,000 people own at least 1 full bitcoin. the other numbers are pretty similar in both scenarios so they are most likely roughly in the right ballpark already. (give or take a few %). (In reality obviously the people with less than 1 bitcoin most likely only use 1 wallet, that's why the lower end of the table is more inaccurate)

This is of course all pretty rough calculations but as you can see, splitting the money up doesn't matter that much for the statistics overall. Because for every couple of wallets combined to create a larger wallet, you will only move wallets between different classes and the whole chart will just correct itself and end up nearly exactly the same anyway.

We also won't run out of addresses because there's just so many possible addresses.

2^160 to be precise, and to put that into perspective for you, if 8 billion people would generate 1 billion addresses per second it would take 5.7 SEXTILLION years before we run out of adresses. That is nearly half a billion times the calculated age of the universe.

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2%5E160+%2F+(8+billion+*+billion+per+second)


I am not worried about running out of addresses.

I don't necessarily disagree with you regarding possible ways that individuals may hold their coins or that there is some distribution of coins similar to what you are asserting.

But I believe that you do not get and cannot get that information from the bitcoin addresses.

Like you mention, we can get some information regarding possible users from bitcoin addresses because we can analyze some of the history of the address and how long it has been used and how active the address is.
The whole


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June 02, 2016, 09:45:14 AM
 #3218

We will all be rich gentlemen.






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June 02, 2016, 10:44:31 AM
 #3219

we will be rich again as the btc value is rising so let's rejoice

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June 02, 2016, 10:47:24 AM
 #3220

We will all be rich gentlemen.

I too hope that we all will become rich with bitcoin. Already those first level adopters have become rich. So considering most of us to be the second level adopters we too will become rich in a limited time.

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