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Author Topic: Health and Religion  (Read 191191 times)
CoinCube
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January 22, 2017, 10:52:06 AM
 #1021


That's because you are deaf Wink
Here are a few pieces of quality music completely religion free just for you stats. 

Dave Thomas - La Noyee solo (Yann Tiersen cover)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI76sKLMkMU

Russian Folk Music - Russian Winter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4iDAqTglzQ

Ukulele weeps by Jake Shimabukuro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puSkP3uym5k

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January 22, 2017, 12:18:45 PM
 #1022


That's because you are deaf Wink
Here are a few pieces of quality music completely religion free just for you stats. 

Dave Thomas - La Noyee solo (Yann Tiersen cover)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI76sKLMkMU

Russian Folk Music - Russian Winter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4iDAqTglzQ

Ukulele weeps by Jake Shimabukuro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puSkP3uym5k

Never been an Accordion fan.

The Russian Winter i find relaxing and the Ukulele player is very talented.

How about this.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=so49WpSj9bo

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January 22, 2017, 07:39:16 PM
 #1023


That's because you are deaf Wink
Here are a few pieces of quality music completely religion free just for you stats. 

Dave Thomas - La Noyee solo (Yann Tiersen cover)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI76sKLMkMU

Russian Folk Music - Russian Winter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4iDAqTglzQ

Ukulele weeps by Jake Shimabukuro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puSkP3uym5k

Never been an Accordion fan.

The Russian Winter i find relaxing and the Ukulele player is very talented.

How about this.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=so49WpSj9bo


An accordion is a fan. The person playing it is the motor.    Cool

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January 23, 2017, 05:50:08 AM
 #1024

François-Marie Arouet (Voltaire) [1768], "Response to the author of the book, The Three Impostors"

"My lodging is filled with lizards and rats;
But the architect exists, and anyone who denies it
Is touched with madness under the guise of wisdom.
Consult Zoroaster, and Minos, and Solon,
And the martyr Socrates, and the great Cicero:
They all adored a master, a judge, a father.
This sublime system is necessary to man.
It is the sacred tie that binds society,
The first foundation of holy equity,
The bridle to the wicked, the hope of the just.

If the heavens, stripped of his noble imprint,
Could ever cease to attest to his being,
If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him.
Let the wise man announce him and kings fear him.
Kings, if you oppress me, if your eminencies disdain
The tears of the innocent that you cause to flow,
My avenger is in the heavens: learn to tremble.
Such, at least, is the fruit of a useful creed.

But you, faulty logician, whose sad foolishness
Dares to reassure them in the path of crime,
What fruit do you expect to reap from your fine arguments?
Will your children be more obedient to your voice?
Your friends, at time of need, more useful and reliable?
Your wife more honest? and your new renter,
For not believing in God, will he pay you better?
Alas! let's leave intact human belief in fear and hope.
...
I see from afar that era coming, those happy days,
When philosophy, enlightening humanity,
Must lead them in peace to the feet of the common master;
Frightful fanaticism will tremble to appear there:
There will be less dogma with more virtue. "

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January 23, 2017, 06:21:36 AM
 #1025


Not really my style of music but much better than your initial offering.
I prefer music that tells more of a story. Like this:

Valjean Arrested
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWOsZj-AjHQ&list=PL71A8E218EA55A570&index=2

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January 23, 2017, 10:32:39 AM
 #1026


Not really my style of music but much better than your initial offering.
I prefer music that tells more of a story. Like this:

Valjean Arrested
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWOsZj-AjHQ&list=PL71A8E218EA55A570&index=2


Nah.... Didn't like that one.

Story.... try this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCNvZqpa-7Q
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January 23, 2017, 05:45:43 PM
 #1027

...
I prefer music that tells more of a story. Like this:

Valjean Arrested
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWOsZj-AjHQ&list=PL71A8E218EA55A570&index=2


Nah.... Didn't like that one.
...

That is understandable not everyone likes musicals even good ones. Maybe the problem is the genre?

Are you a rap fan? This song won a Grammy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zICb-9m2dGA

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January 26, 2017, 08:07:42 PM
Last edit: January 26, 2017, 09:01:05 PM by CoinCube
 #1028


God and religion have nothing to do with it. If the men are so stupid that they need to fear a God in order to adhere to the truths they've been taught, then the culture is growing weaker not stronger.

I am arguing for a culture that grows stronger via natural selection and free will of choice. And never did I expect all men to join such a culture because I don't think the bell curve of IQ is ever going to be eliminated.
...

God is needed because the primary struggle is an individual one. Our greatest battle is with ourselves. It is very easy to say women shouldn't do this or society shouldn't do that. It is orders of magnitude more difficult to say I shouldn't do this especially when I want to and can get away with it.

Your thinking continues to return to the concept of controlling others (especially women) indirectly through culture when the real battle is that of individual women and individual men learning to improve and elevate ourselves. Cultural structures can help us win or lose this struggle but they are ultimately secondary.

God is necessarily because otherwise we lack the motivation and strength to succeed. Without God our focus inevitably turns away from the self and towards controlling others either directly or indirectly.


...
So yeah maybe you could use the delusion of a fear of God to keep the women fearful of defection, but it is counterproductive to use it on men, because all you are accomplishing is enslaving the weak men in religion and weakening the culture. And this is why religion repeatedly leads to large scale failure and megadeath.
...
If I can't control myself to adhere to a correct multi-generational strategy, then how will God help me? By enslaving me in fear? I think you don't trust yourself? Then how can you ever succeed if can't control yourself? If you can control yourself, then why do you need a fear of God?
...
I don't lack the motivation and hopefully also not lacking the strength. If we don't have that then we are weak males and we will always be enslaved.
...
Delusion (religion) won't get the males there. Sorry. But of course feel free to pursue what ever you want. If you can make a cogent rebuttal then of course I want to read it. I want to know if someone can show me a better way.
...
I am not going to just lay down and accept an argument that doesn't seem to make sense to me. I deluded myself with too much bullshit over the 50 years and received a lot of incorrect philosophical guidance from others. I am not going to follow any more fools (and that includes being wary of my own myopia but that doesn't mean I need to fear a God, although it does mean I need to open source). If you want to convince me, then you need to have impeccable logic.


Proverbs 9:10
"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom"

The fear of God is necessary to maximize cooperation over defection. It is not cost free so individuals who fear God must form a community of like minded individuals to maximize the benefits of cooperation. Ultimately there is no current or future functional mechanism more optimized for maximizing cooperation then a universal and genuine the fear of the LORD. This is why religion will grow and ultimately out compete lesser more inefficient strategies. For a deeper analysis we must enter the realm of religious texts.    

http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/pol/pol25.htm
Quote
The Fear of God

The son of Rabbi Hunnah said, "He who possesses a knowledge of God's law, without the fear of Him, is as one who has been intrusted with the inner keys of a treasury, but from whom the outer ones are withheld."

Rabbi Alexander said, "He who possesses worldly wisdom and fears not the Lord, is as one who designs building a house and completes only the door, for as David wrote in Psalm 111th, 'The beginning of wisdom is the fear of the Lord."

When Rabbi Jochanan was ill, his pupils visited him and asked him for a blessing. With his dying voice the Rabbi said, "I pray that you may fear God as you fear man." "What!" exclaimed his pupils, "should we not fear God more than man?"

"I should be well content," answered the sage, if your actions proved that you feared Him as much. When you do wrong you first make sure that no human eyes see you; show the same fear of God, who sees everywhere, and everything, at all times."

Abba says we can show our fear of God in our intercourse

p. 239

with one another. "Speak pleasantly and kindly to every one;" he says, "trying to pacify anger, seeking peace, and pursuing it with your brethren and with all the world, and by this means you will gain that 'favour and good understanding in the sight of God and man,' which Solomon so highly prized." (Prov. 3: 9.)

Rabbi Jochanan had heard Rabbi Simon, son of Jochay, illustrate by a parable that passage of Isaiah which reads as follows: "I, the Lord, love uprightness; but hate robbery (converted) into burnt-offering."

A king having imported certain goods upon which he laid a duty, bade his officers, as they passed the custom-house, to stop and pay the usual tariff.

Greatly astonished, his attendants addressed him thus: "Sire! all that is collected belongs to your majesty; why then give what must be eventually paid into thy treasury?"

"Because," answered the monarch, "I wish travellers to learn from the action I now order you to perform, how abhorrent dishonesty is in my eyes."

Even so is it regarding the dealings of the Almighty with us, pilgrims on earth. Though all we possess belongs to Him, yet He adds to it continually, in order to increase our temporal enjoyment. Should any one imagine, therefore, that to defraud man in order to present to God, what is solely His own, might be allowable, he would be rebuked by the teachings of Holy Writ, for the just God condemns the act, and calls it hateful.

From this we may then infer, for instance, that palm-branches, stolen in order to perform therewith the prescribed rites at the Feast of Tabernacles, are unfit for use by reason of the unlawful manner in which they were obtained.

Rabbi Eleazer said: "He who is guided by righteousness and justice in all his doings, may justly be asserted to have

p. 240

copied God in His unbounded beneficence. For of Him (blessed be His name) we read, 'He loveth righteousness and justice;' that is, 'The earth is filled with the loving kindness of God.'" Might we think that to follow such a course is an easy task? No! The virtue of beneficence can be gained only by great efforts. Will it be difficult, however, for him that has the fear of God constantly before his eyes to acquire this attribute? No; he will easily attain it, whose every act is done in the fear of the Lord.

"A crown of grace is the hoary head; on the way of righteousness can it be found."

So taught Solomon in his Proverbs. Hence various Rabbis, who had attained an advanced age, were questioned by their pupils as to the probable cause that had secured them that mark of divine favour. Rabbi Nechumah answered that, in regard to himself, God had taken cognisance of three principles by which he had endeavoured to guide his conduct.

First, he had never striven to exalt his own standing by lowering that of his neighbour. This was agreeable to the example set by Rabbi Hunna, for the latter, while bearing on his shoulders a heavy spade, was met by Rabbi Choana Ben Chanilai, who, considering the burden derogatory to the dignity of so great a man, insisted upon relieving him of the implement and carrying it himself. But Rabbi Hunna refused, saying, "Were this your habitual calling I might permit it, but I certainly shall not permit another to perform an office which, if clone by myself, may be looked upon by some as menial."

Secondly, he had never gone to his night's rest with a heart harbouring ill-will against his fellow-man, conformably with the practice of Mar Zutra, who, before sleeping, offered

p. 241

this prayer: "O Lord! forgive all those who have done me injury."

Thirdly, he was not penurious, following the example of the righteous Job, of whom the sages relate that he declined to receive the change due him after making a purchase.

Another Rabbi, bearing also the name of Nechumah, replied to Rabbi Akiba, that he believed himself to have been blessed with long life because, in his official capacity, he had invariably set his face against accepting presents, mindful of what Solomon wrote, "He that hateth gifts will live." Another of his merits he conceived to be that of never resenting an offence; mindful of the words of Rabba, "He who is indulgent towards others' faults, will be mercifully dealt with by the Supreme Judge."

Rabbi Zera said that the merit of having reached an extreme age was in his case due, under Providence, to his conduct through life. He governed his household with mildness and forbearance. He refrained from advancing an opinion before his superiors in wisdom. He avoided rehearsing the word of God in places not entirely free from uncleanliness. He wore the phylacteries all day, that he might be reminded of his religious duties. He did not make the college where sacred knowledge is taught, a place of convenience, as, for instance, to sleep there, either occasionally or habitually. He never rejoiced over the downfall of a fellow-mortal, nor would he designate another by a name objectionable to the party personally, or to the family of which he was a member.

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January 30, 2017, 12:46:14 AM
 #1029


Singapore's plea to its people: Won’t you please have more children?
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-Pacific/2017/0129/Singapore-s-plea-to-its-people-Won-t-you-please-have-more-children
Quote
As Singapore goes all out to reverse its ultralow fertility rate, many nations facing tough economic and social problems as the ranks of young people dwindle watch closely for lessons.

Singapore’s fertility rate is among the 10 lowest in the world. The average number of births per woman in 2015 was 1.24, according to government statistics. That’s well below the replacement rate of 2.1, the number of babies generally required to maintain a country’s current population level.
...
Singapore is an acute example of what has become a worldwide trend. Nearly half of all people now live in countries where women, on average, give birth to fewer than 2.1 babies. The Population Reference Bureau, a nonprofit research group in Washington, estimates the world population will reach 9.9 billion in 2050, up about 33 percent from an estimated 7.4 billion now. Yet the growth rate has steadily declined since its peak in the late 1960s.
...
Governments across the world, from Denmark to Japan, are struggling to come to terms with shrinking populations, and the implications for everything from supporting aging populations to growing the economy. But Singapore’s all-out approach stands out as one of the most ambitious.
...
Singapore has introduced a wide range of policies to help defray the costs of raising children in one of the world’s most expensive countries. Couples can get baby bonuses and housing priority, and men can take advantage of extended mandatory parental leaves – just like women. The government sponsors dating services to help with the first step: finding a partner.
...
The government’s aim is to help make parenthood as easy as possible. Aside from the housing initiative, it has also extended mandatory paid paternity leave from one to two weeks and even provides cash for babies. Families receive $14,000 (Singaporean; almost US$9,900) for their first child and are eligible for the same amount if they have a second; they receive S$20,000 for a third child, as well as for a fourth, and S$26,000 for each child beyond that.

The results have been mixed.
...
“I cannot solve the problem, and I have given up,” Lee (the country’s founding leader) wrote in his last book, published in 2013. “I have given the job to another generation of leaders. Hopefully, they or their successors will eventually find a way out.”
...
Josephine Teo (enior minister of state who oversees the National Population and Talent Division) often urges young people to look for love and settle down early, but even she has acknowledged a fine line between gentle persuasion and heavy-handed intrusiveness... "Millennial Singaporeans, who number nearly a million, are not about to start families because someone exhorts them to. If and when they decide to, it will likely be because they regard marriage and parenthood to be achievable, enjoyable, and celebrated.”

Versus

Israel has the highest birth rate in the developed world.
http://www.businessinsider.com/israel-has-the-highest-birth-rate-in-the-developed-world-and-thats-becoming-a-problem-2015-9
Quote
Although most people don’t realize it, Israel is the only Western country that has a positive birthrate

The average Israeli woman has three babies in her lifetime, nearly double the fertility rate for the rest of the industrialised countries in the OECD.

Today's population of 8.4 million is forecast to reach 15.6 million by 2059 and 20.6 million in a high case scenario.
...
there is no national discourse or recognition that a problem exists. On the contrary, government policies are geared to encouraging a high birth rate.

The reasons are various, from the biblical command "Be fruitful and multiply" to the death of six million Jews in the Holocaust, to fears of being outnumbered by Arabs.

Israeli government policy encourages population growth with benefits such as child allowances, free schooling from the age of three and funding for up to four in vitro fertility treatments a year.


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January 30, 2017, 01:25:10 AM
 #1030


Proverbs 9:10
"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom"

The fear of God is necessary to maximize cooperation over defection. It is not cost free so individuals who fear God must form a community of like minded individuals to maximize the benefits of cooperation. Ultimately there is no current or future functional mechanism more optimized for maximizing cooperation then a universal and genuine the fear of the LORD. This is why religion will grow and ultimately out compete lesser more inefficient strategies. For a deeper analysis we must enter the realm of religious texts.

Since you have taken this position, consider this.

The Bible is filled with many words. It is filled with many concepts. Each of these concepts is often difficult to consider in the light of all the rest of the concepts. So...

Get yourself a set of Bible CDs in a language that is common to you, and in a version that is as accurate as you can find with regard to the Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic it was translated from. Every day listen to a half hour to an hour of Bible. Start at the beginning and go to the end. Listen to the New Testament 3 or 4 times for each Old Testament hearing. Never stop.

Why do this? Because hearing penetrates in ways that reading does not. Sure, reading brings more of a focus. You can often remember the seeing of the written Word easier than you can remember the hearing of the same spoken Word. But hearing has its own subtle advantages that are not available through reading. This doesn't mean that you shouldn't read at the same time you are listening, or read without listening at times.

Romans 10:17:
King James Version:
Quote
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
New International Version:
Quote
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.
English Standard Version:
Quote
So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

The point? It isn't our understanding of how to juggle the Bible that gives us strength. Rather, it is the Spirit of God working through His words in us. But He can't do it if we don't have His words in us.

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January 30, 2017, 09:59:13 AM
Last edit: January 30, 2017, 10:46:42 AM by Buffer Overflow
 #1031


Proverbs 9:10
"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom"

The fear of God is necessary to maximize cooperation over defection. It is not cost free so individuals who fear God must form a community of like minded individuals to maximize the benefits of cooperation. Ultimately there is no current or future functional mechanism more optimized for maximizing cooperation then a universal and genuine the fear of the LORD. This is why religion will grow and ultimately out compete lesser more inefficient strategies. For a deeper analysis we must enter the realm of religious texts.
Bible is filled with many words. It is filled with many concepts. Each of these concepts is often difficult to consider in the light of all the rest of the concepts. So...

Get yourself a set of Bible CDs in a language that is common to you,
Cool

Bit bias here. Why you not encouraging him to get some Quran etc... CD's as well, so he can get a nice balanced view?

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January 31, 2017, 07:29:36 AM
Last edit: January 31, 2017, 08:28:15 PM by CoinCube
 #1032

For those interested iamnotback and I have recently concluded a very deep philosophical debate.

It started off as a debate on slavery before moving on to a discussion of the characteristics of evil.  From there it spiraled into a discussion of God concluding with a contrast between the worship of nature and the worship of God.

The debate started in the Martin Armstrong thread here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1082909.msg17608266#msg17608266
It concluded in the Dark Enlightenment thread.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=495527.msg17633518#msg17633518



Proverbs 9:10
"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom"

The fear of God is necessary to maximize cooperation over defection. It is not cost free so individuals who fear God must form a community of like minded individuals to maximize the benefits of cooperation. Ultimately there is no current or future functional mechanism more optimized for maximizing cooperation then a universal and genuine the fear of the LORD. This is why religion will grow and ultimately out compete lesser more inefficient strategies. For a deeper analysis we must enter the realm of religious texts.
Bible is filled with many words. It is filled with many concepts. Each of these concepts is often difficult to consider in the light of all the rest of the concepts. So...

Get yourself a set of Bible CDs in a language that is common to you,
Cool

Bit bias here. Why you not encouraging him to get some Quran etc... CD's as well, so he can get a nice balanced view?


My arguments upthread and elsewhere commit me to Ethical Monotheism. Christianity, Islam, and Judaism are all at theoretically congruent with my position.

BADeckers advice to not just read but also listen to the Bible including the New Testament is interesting and something I had not previously considered I will probably follow it. There is nothing wrong with with reading the Quran also as one should fully understand all of ones options. Finally, I intend to take a very close look at Judaism.

In the end I will choose the option I feel is closest to truth. However, as I have no real desire to engage in theological debates I will likely keep that choice to myself.  

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January 31, 2017, 03:00:51 PM
 #1033

For those interested iamnotback and I have recently concluded a very deep philosophical debate.

It started off as a debate on slavery before moving on to a discussion of the characteristics of evil.  From there it spiraled into a discussion of God concluding with a contrast between the worship of nature and the worship of God.

The debate started in the Martin Armstrong thread here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1082909.msg17608266#msg17608266
It concluded in the Dark Enlightenment thread.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=495527.msg17633518#msg17633518



Proverbs 9:10
"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom"

The fear of God is necessary to maximize cooperation over defection. It is not cost free so individuals who fear God must form a community of like minded individuals to maximize the benefits of cooperation. Ultimately there is no current or future functional mechanism more optimized for maximizing cooperation then a universal and genuine the fear of the LORD. This is why religion will grow and ultimately out compete lesser more inefficient strategies. For a deeper analysis we must enter the realm of religious texts.
Bible is filled with many words. It is filled with many concepts. Each of these concepts is often difficult to consider in the light of all the rest of the concepts. So...

Get yourself a set of Bible CDs in a language that is common to you,
Cool

Bit bias here. Why you not encouraging him to get some Quran etc... CD's as well, so he can get a nice balanced view?


My arguments upthread and elsewhere commit me to Ethical Monotheism. Christianity, Islam, and Judaism are all at theoretically congruent with my position.

BADeckers advice to not just read but also listen to the Bible including the New Testament is interesting and something I had not previously considered I will probably follow it. There is nothing wrong with with reading the Quran also as one should fully understand all of ones options. Finally, I intend to take a very close look at Judaism.

In the end I will choose the option I feel is closest to truth. However, as I have no real desire to engage in further theological debates I will likely keep that choice to myself.  


Another option is to read Quantum Physics textbook, or read History books, read any books that talk about reality.

If you seek refuge in some Bronze Age or a 6-th century poetry, that is fine, just don't come out and say that this is 'the truth'.  Literature is fine as long as it is treated/interpreted as such.

Do you want to know the history of human kind, how it all started? Read this book:

https://www.amazon.com/Sapiens-Humankind-Yuval-Noah-Harari/dp/0062316095/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1485869151&sr=8-1&keywords=brief+history+of+human

For me, theology is a study of literature.  Like you, I have no interest in it. 

However, when someone comes out and says they have a talking, winged horse sitting on a unicorn in their backyard, I have to confront the BS.


When someone suggests the idea of someone coming out and saying they have a talking, winged horse sitting on a unicorn in their back yard, we all have to wonder about the credulity of the person making the suggestion.

If we did not have the printing press or any other methods of easily recording and making copies of books, and the only way to make a copy of a book was to copy it by hand, what would a quantum physics book or "Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind" look like in a thousand years?

My guess is that there wouldn't be any copies around. People are only interested in the truth. Without the easy method of propagating propaganda like the printing press, all that would be left are the multiple thousands of handmade copies of the Bible, and a few copies of other religious books. Modern science would be almost completely gone.

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January 31, 2017, 03:02:48 PM
 #1034

The Bible is said to be scripture, but it was written AND RE-WRITTEN by many different men. Did ALL of those men receive their inspiration from the Creator? The changes made to the Bible suggest to the believer that it was not a perfect book as-written. So therefore it must be a work-in-progress?

I do not wish to make or be part of some kind of a “cult of Doris Ekker” but the fact is that this Grandmother managed to write a 200-page book EVERY 3 WEEKS FOR YEARS, hundreds of books in total.  How was this prodigious output, covering such a wide range of topics, possible?  Please do not be too quick to reject the truthful answer, that she scribed DIRECTLY for our Heavenly Father, exactly as stated.  There probably has NEVER been a scribe so well connected — including all of the great ones acknowledged in all of the holy books.
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January 31, 2017, 03:09:40 PM
 #1035

The Bible is said to be scripture, but it was written AND RE-WRITTEN by many different men. Did ALL of those men receive their inspiration from the Creator? The changes made to the Bible suggest to the believer that it was not a perfect book as-written. So therefore it must be a work-in-progress?

I do not wish to make or be part of some kind of a “cult of Doris Ekker” but the fact is that this Grandmother managed to write a 200-page book EVERY 3 WEEKS FOR YEARS, hundreds of books in total.  How was this prodigious output, covering such a wide range of topics, possible?  Please do not be too quick to reject the truthful answer, that she scribed DIRECTLY for our Heavenly Father, exactly as stated.  There probably has NEVER been a scribe so well connected — including all of the great ones acknowledged in all of the holy books.
http://phoenixsourcedistributors.com/

While you can find copies of the Bible here and there that are corrupted and incorrect, the Dead Sea Scrolls show that there was little change over 2,000 years before the printing press was developed.

It was the job of the Hebrew people to maintain Bible accuracy. And, they did their job very well, copying by hand.

All of our major translations go back to the original languages, Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic, for translating. And care is taken to do the best job possible regarding accuracy. Check out https://www.biblegateway.com/ to see many of the best translations around. If you are interested, you can research how each copy was made, and what the translators did to assure accuracy.

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January 31, 2017, 03:27:40 PM
 #1036

You can read the Bible and see the vast differences between OT and NT, between the gospels and the teaching of Paul, etc; you can also read the book "Misquoting Jesus" and determine for yourself that NOT ALL of these men were DIRECTLY inspired by GOD. Therefore, how could the Bible be a DIRECT TEACHING FROM GOD???

You mention the Dead Sea Scrolls, but fail to mention the writings made by early Christians found at Nag Hammadi which are in opposition to the now-popular teachings of Paul. Actually, the history of the Bible is far more tangled than you have been led to believe; maybe you would be better off STUDYING THE WRITINGS OF BIBLE SCHOLARS WITH EXPERTISE? It seems like you are trusting in Paul's teaching but paying no heed to that of the Gnostics or even that of Deepak Chopra as in his book "The Third Jesus". In these Gnostic texts Jesus actually says "I am not your master"! Now where is that in the Bible!? Regarding the Dead Sea Scrolls, they only prove that there was more important information left out of the Bible, like the process for making MANNA:

The excavation of Qumran, Judea revealed a complex system of conduits, channels and numerous water cisterns, some of which led directly from the Dead Sea. This salt-laden water was not suitable for drinking, but its high mineral content has been found to be a source of high quality m-state material for the processing of white gold powder.


Getting back to the main point: it seems kind of absurd to have such an important project (the WORD) for mankind in the hands of so many fallible men; GOD certainly works in mysterious ways but men are prone to corruption and certainly the Bible has the mark of man upon it. Can the same be said about the Phoenix Journals? These volumes are more lucid and go into every detail, and were written by just ONE scribe.

Hatonn is: Gyeorgos Ceres Hatonn-Aton.  I write through a “Translator”; communications through pulsed short-wave transmission.  This is not “psychic channeling nor hocus-pocus”. This is purely “physics” of frequency transmission, receiver termination of transmission and translation of the signal into the English language.

I am Commander of the “Phoenix Project”, serving the Command of that ONE whom you refer to as “The Messenger, Christos, God, etc.”  The “Command Fleet” is from the sector Pleiades from which originated your ancestral lineage.  My mission is in preparation for the return of the “God” to reclaim His property.  He went forth and has prepared safe passage and “a place” for each of you who would come within His shelter.  The choice is individual for force is not of God and you have free-will for all choices.
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January 31, 2017, 06:38:08 PM
 #1037

You can read the Bible and see the vast differences between OT and NT, between the gospels and the teaching of Paul, etc; you can also read the book "Misquoting Jesus" and determine for yourself that NOT ALL of these men were DIRECTLY inspired by GOD. Therefore, how could the Bible be a DIRECT TEACHING FROM GOD???
The teachings are not different. They are simply said in different ways. Also, they are said to different groups of people, and to people with different outlooks and understandings in life. This is why they are said differently.

For example. If I were to try to explain proof for the existence of God to a tribe of Australian Aborigines, people who had not had any modern science schooling at all, it wouldn't make sense to talk to them about cause and effect and Newton's 3rd Law. I would have to go about it a different way.



You mention the Dead Sea Scrolls, but fail to mention the writings made by early Christians found at Nag Hammadi which are in opposition to the now-popular teachings of Paul. Actually, the history of the Bible is far more tangled than you have been led to believe; maybe you would be better off STUDYING THE WRITINGS OF BIBLE SCHOLARS WITH EXPERTISE? It seems like you are trusting in Paul's teaching but paying no heed to that of the Gnostics or even that of Deepak Chopra as in his book "The Third Jesus". In these Gnostic texts Jesus actually says "I am not your master"! Now where is that in the Bible!? Regarding the Dead Sea Scrolls, they only prove that there was more important information left out of the Bible, like the process for making MANNA:

The excavation of Qumran, Judea revealed a complex system of conduits, channels and numerous water cisterns, some of which led directly from the Dead Sea. This salt-laden water was not suitable for drinking, but its high mineral content has been found to be a source of high quality m-state material for the processing of white gold powder.
Each blade of grass is important in the universe. The universe would be radically different if even one blade of grass that had been cause-and-effected to exist, simply did not exist.

If the Bible held all the important information in it, it might be bigger than the universe. That which is written is there for the saving of souls. That which is not written will add little towards the saving goal, and might even detract from it if added.




Getting back to the main point: it seems kind of absurd to have such an important project (the WORD) for mankind in the hands of so many fallible men; GOD certainly works in mysterious ways but men are prone to corruption and certainly the Bible has the mark of man upon it. Can the same be said about the Phoenix Journals? These volumes are more lucid and go into every detail, and were written by just ONE scribe.

Hatonn is: Gyeorgos Ceres Hatonn-Aton.  I write through a “Translator”; communications through pulsed short-wave transmission.  This is not “psychic channeling nor hocus-pocus”. This is purely “physics” of frequency transmission, receiver termination of transmission and translation of the signal into the English language.

I am Commander of the “Phoenix Project”, serving the Command of that ONE whom you refer to as “The Messenger, Christos, God, etc.”  The “Command Fleet” is from the sector Pleiades from which originated your ancestral lineage.  My mission is in preparation for the return of the “God” to reclaim His property.  He went forth and has prepared safe passage and “a place” for each of you who would come within His shelter.  The choice is individual for force is not of God and you have free-will for all choices.

This is why God allows the Dead Sea Scrolls to exist... so that we can see which writings are infallible, by comparing the ancient to the new. Whatever is copied accurately by hand over thousands of years is something that has power. Since the Phoenix Project writings have only been around for a short while, and since they contradict the Bible in some places, they are probably demonic writings.

At the time of the judgment in the last day, all prophetic writings will become unimportant. They will be destroyed in the Lake of Fire following the judgment. The only book that will remain is the Word of God, Jesus, and those who follow Jesus.

Some of the other prophetic writings might help people live good lives here in this life, for the tiny hundred years that they live. Other writings might have Jesus salvation mentioned. But all the Jesus salvation writing comes first from the Bible. So, since we have the Bible with us, let's go directly to the source for salvation... the Bible.

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February 01, 2017, 12:38:17 AM
 #1038

Another option is to read Quantum Physics textbook, or read History books, read any books that talk about reality.

If you seek refuge in some Bronze Age or a 6-th century poetry, that is fine, just don't come out and say that this is 'the truth'.  Literature is fine as long as it is treated/interpreted as such.

Do you want to know the history of human kind, how it all started? Read this book:

https://www.amazon.com/Sapiens-Humankind-Yuval-Noah-Harari/dp/0062316095/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1485869151&sr=8-1&keywords=brief+history+of+human

For me, theology is a study of literature.  Like you, I have no interest in it.  

However, when someone comes out and says they have a talking, winged horse sitting on a unicorn in their backyard, I have to confront the BS.

I have read a lot of science books far more then most people here I suspect.

You mistake me. I do not wish to engage in theological disputes between the various factions of Ethical Monotheism because I ultimately view such disputes to be counterproductive not because I have no interest in theology.

Religion is unavoidable. Refusing to choose or rejecting all organized religion does not free you from it. All refusal does is cement you into your personal religion by default. That may be hedonism, environmentalism, communism, or whatever else you naturally gravitate to.

This entire thread is an argument for the importance of theology. Choices even those made by default have consequences.

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February 01, 2017, 01:16:32 AM
 #1039

Another option is to read Quantum Physics textbook, or read History books, read any books that talk about reality.

If you seek refuge in some Bronze Age or a 6-th century poetry, that is fine, just don't come out and say that this is 'the truth'.  Literature is fine as long as it is treated/interpreted as such.

Do you want to know the history of human kind, how it all started? Read this book:

https://www.amazon.com/Sapiens-Humankind-Yuval-Noah-Harari/dp/0062316095/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1485869151&sr=8-1&keywords=brief+history+of+human

For me, theology is a study of literature.  Like you, I have no interest in it.  

However, when someone comes out and says they have a talking, winged horse sitting on a unicorn in their backyard, I have to confront the BS.

I have read a lot of science books far more then most people here I suspect.

You mistake me. I do not wish to engage in theological disputes between the various factions of Ethical Monotheism because I ultimately view such disputes to be counterproductive not because I have no interest in theology.

Religion is unavoidable. Refusing to choose or rejecting all organized religion does not free you from it. All refusal does is cement you into your personal religion by default. That may be hedonism, environmentalism, communism, or whatever else you naturally gravitate to.

This entire thread is an argument for the importance of theology. Choices even those made by default have consequences.

If I had to pick '-ism' I would pick humanism.  Sorry, religions offend my intellect.


That, then, is your religion. Don't feel alone. Most people feel offended by aspects of themselves.

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February 01, 2017, 08:43:12 AM
 #1040



Most people feel offended by aspects of themselves.

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And what aspect of yourself are you offended by? Is it your inability to show compassion or empathy? Or your constant belittling of others for your own self justification?
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