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Author Topic: [ANN] [ETC] Ethereum Classic: Immutable Smart Contracts  (Read 789562 times)
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July 30, 2016, 07:05:25 PM
 #1641

First EthereumClassic meetup on 18 August in London https://twitter.com/bit_novosti/status/759285973981208576

Litecoin dev: Major miners are turning to #ETC now. https://twitter.com/TheRealXinxi/status/759255155674062848

Hashrate has been steady between 390-520 GH/s lately.

Down from 1500.

Things seems to stabilize around here.
The miners who got burned in the start doesnt seem to return. (simply too many issues with payouts the first days)

Maybe increased value will change their minds.

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July 30, 2016, 07:27:54 PM
 #1642

So this is it? Is the hashing power of ETC rising or falling? For the first few days the original has been gaining momentum. But now the people are getting anxious because it is still an uphill battle and now the stakes are high because the original chain could be attacked.

Please update us on what is going on. That will be appreciated.

Well it all looks good from here,
Eth successfully forked away from the network and established their own chain.  We wish them the very best of luck in their chosen way forward.
ETC hashrate has been steady and constant at around ~500Gh/s since shortly after the passing of Block 192......
A stable market price has been established.  Community, exchanges, users and Companies have on the whole been supportive.  A big thank you to everyone who has supported ETC.

We have been threatened with 51% attack on 2 occasions which i find both shocking and unorthodox as most attackers like to use the element of surprise and remain anonymous.  Moreover, I hope we are not entering a  new age of crypto posturing and bullying between coins.  That's just not good for crypto as a whole.

It feels nice to be free from the autocracy of adolescent dictatorship actually. Let the free markets decide who they wish to support.

I think we have successfully nailed our colours to the mast.  Don't you?

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July 30, 2016, 07:48:32 PM
 #1643

Not sure why, but I didn't even think about a thread for ETC and posted some stuff about ETC in the ETH-Tread. I'll post it here as well:

Disclaimer: Just watching, not invested in ETH or ETC. But of course: One of the most interesting situations I've seen in Crypto since Craig Wright. ;-)



Who will survive - without safe answer of course


imagine both coins survive..
will one always be ahead with development ? and the otherone will just copy ,if its a good feature and its tested on  chain A?

we might see debats like: how long till we will also do pos ?
or will the coins separet in total different directions ?




There is an interesting "paradox" and it could turn out as very bad for ETH:

If ETC should survive, ETC will copy everything what will be developed for ETH. At least that's the plan:

At the initial stage, maintaining 100 percent compatibility with Ethereum is a high priority for us. This also means that we don't really need to do much development, we simply fork the code from the Ethereum repository and update accordingly. But, of course, if current Ethereum developers want to join us — now or in the future — they are more than welcome to do so. We are aiming for the same thing here: building a better future for humankind, where smart contract platforms provide a mechanism for social and economic cooperation on a truly global scale.
https://steemit.com/crypto-news/@ghostyeti/interview-with-arvicco-developer-of-ethereum-classic


What's interesting about that situation is: The Ethereum-team would do the development, but ETC could become the project to trust!

If it survives potential problems because of the DAO-hack etc.

--> ETC will be more Ethereum than Ethereum. Because it will be the same tech on the original chain and without a bail-out-decision to secure funds of friends.


What I mean becomes clear if you read this:

More and more companies are openly showing their support for Ethereum Classic. To the majority of enterprises in the cryptocurrency world, supporting ETC may not make much sense. But Stampery feels there is a good reason to support the pre-hard fork Ethereum initiative. After all, the company wants to let anyone create verifiable records of their data.
http://themerkle.com/stampery-drops-forked-ethereum-blockchain-support-due-to-censorship-concerns/


Why Stampery supports Ethereum Classic

(...)

For transactions to be final and unmodifiable, blockchains need to be immune to third party interference. This promise was completely broken by Ethereum. Hard forks should only happen when a catastrophic bug puts in danger the core values of the technology. In this case the consensus mechanism worked just fine. The blockchain was modified simply because a group of people lost too much money and they decided to bail themselves out.

This is completely unacceptable for Stampery because it creates a dangerous precedent. A powerful government might now decide to push for a hard fork that changes blocks in which we anchored data. They could claim “national interest” for doing so. Or a “too big too fail” corporation could force a fork because it wants to wipe all proof of some questionable process recorded on the blockchain. Because of this we prefer to anchor our data to a blockchain in which hard forks happen only when a protocol-level bug needs to be fixed.

(...)
https://medium.com/@Stampery/why-stampery-supports-ethereum-classic-4c86ec7cca17#.2ufi5ptwm



The problem for Ethereum could become:


- Why should companies trust ETH instead of ETC if ETC will be technically the same as ETH?

- Why shouldn't they use ETC if it's the same as ETH if they can trust ETC more than ETH?

- Why should anybody trust the original team and not the original chain?





And if there should be a tendency for such a situation: At least some Ethereum-Dev's would leave ETH and join ETC --> ETC would become stronger and Ethereum weaker. In the end it could be ETC which will become the real Ethereum again, and in fact it always was the original.

In fact the Ethereum-team abandoned the original chain! Why? Because of their bad job with TheDAO! Because of the high funding of theDAO! And what was theDAO about? Speculation, but I believe it was to fund Ethereum-guys - slock.it and so on. I never believed in theDAO because for me it looked too shady. But, just my personal opinion.


Under the line I'm not sure how good the chances are that ETC will survive, but if, I expect it to become stronger than ETH and ETH to die. And I'm not joking here. And I'm not saying it because I'm against ETH or for ETC - no Investment.
 


Btw: I'm mainly in Factom. And Factom also announced in march:

Factom Plans To Anchor Into Ethereum Blockchain
http://themerkle.com/factom-plans-to-anchor-into-ethereum-blockchain/

And I don't know what they'll decide but it doesn't make much sense to secure a system into a blockchain if it's immutability is a question of submissive decisions with a focus on bailing out Investors. I mean: If the DAO would have been funded just with $10 Mio and not with team-money, would there be two chains now? Never.

And yesterday Factom announced a partnership with smartcontract.com, and on their site:

Ethereum Smart Oracles
Give your Ethereum smart contracts access to external resources like data feeds, your internal systems, additional blockchains and traditional banks/payment networks.
https://smartcontract.com

And it's not about Factom what will happen with data they'll provide to Ethereum, but they can provide it to all Smart Contract projects, ETC included. What I want to say with that: There is no reason to ignore ETC out of perspective of other companies. They won't feel loyal to Ethereum because they like Vitalik and his team.


There is some possibility that in future ppl will say that the original team abandoned the original Ethereum while ETC will be Ethereum.
Because there are not that many reasons to trust the original team which injured the original chain because of own interest as a result of bad code before. It's like a step-by-step but lastly total damage of credibility.







About a 51%-attack




I hope developers realize that not only can they get forked, now eth miners have no morals and will 51% attack them. Eth has no morals

I've seen the plans for an 51%-attack on the ETH-forum and I don't have much doubt that there will be some kinds of attacks. But: There is a psychological problem that shouldn't be underestimated: How does the ETH-team look now?

Short overview:

1. They (or some of them) developed theDAO
2. TheDAO was funded with a lot of team-money - ridiculous $150 Mio in total. That's 3 times of the original Ethereum-CFC if I recall it correctly(?)
3. Slock.it wanted funds - could be seen as intention to develop theDAO - could give a shady impression
4. TheDAO launched on Polo - and it wasn't too successfully while some even believed it would rise in price --> totally misconception/irrational
5. Than the "Hack" - and obviously: All warnings ignored but claimed it would be secure. It says some things about them as developers.
6. Articles come out, not blaming just the code of theDAO but the Ethereum-coding-language: Solidity
7. Decision to do rush out a HF, because time is running -  and totally convinced the other chain would die soon after
8. But: ETC lives and gets stronger - not weaker (at least for now)

And now add to this:

9. Ethereum-guys attack the original chain to bail out their butts again.


All points smell like "money is the priority" while nothing seems professional. For me personally just the existence of theDAO was a signal not to touch Ethereum. Not because I believed it would be not secure. I have no clue about coding. But the economical side was bad in my eyes, for Ethereum. I mean, it's speculation because we will never find out. But also the high funding was not rational. It seemed too shady, to much like: Easy way to get funds for other Ethereum-projects.

And the believe of blinded Investors, the price could increase beyond the funding was totally naive. It had to go down, because every time it would have invested it would have "lost" funds (to invest) while there always would have been the possibility of a bad investment.


Thing is: Without any doubt they have a very serious credibility-problem now and that will become worse if they should attack ETC and be successful in killing it.

Out of their perspective it would be rational to do it, because if ETC survives it really could be the beginning of Ethereums dead. But if Ethereum-members and miners should be responsible for it, there will be many people in Crypto, maybe a majority, who will disagree with that.

Again it would seem as if the team will do anything to rescue themselves. In combination with all what happened before, and some articles that were highly critical about the DAO and even more, it will begin to seem shady. I mean, Vitalik Buterin is one of the biggest stars in Crypto. People have a lot of respect for him and I really respect him as well and I don't believe that he ever had bad intentions or is in the Game just for the money. But people will lose faith.

And: Even without any thoughts about ETC, the next bad news for Ethereum, if there should come out more flaws regarding the code or whatever: Not sure if it would survive. As I said: I'm not a coder, but there seem to be serious problems and if not even ETH-Dev's are able to develop a smart contract in a secure way - who will use Ethereum for smart contracts?

And of course: That would also be a problem for ETC if true.


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July 30, 2016, 07:52:00 PM
 #1644

Next is getting actual dapps. Ethf doesn't have killer apps either, so the world is watching which chain gets profitable dapps.

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July 30, 2016, 08:20:00 PM
 #1645

Why should ETC tokens have value at all? The tokens depend on non-consensus of ETH and them moving over. Otherwise the snapshotted state has no meaning. The occurring fungibility problems are a huge red flag. Listing ETC is bad for the exchanges who have to deal with this. This really shows the issues with hard-forks.

ETC is ethereum pre-hardFork, so why not keep it and change ticker/name to the other ethereum hardfork to something like ETHF or ETF ?

ETH miners have been upgrading software given them from ETH team from the beginning - why should this upgrade by different? The issue is you can't get rid of the dev team like this. If you have a new team, you have a new coin (team roughly corresponds to commit rights).

Little doubt in my mind ETC holders will loose out from this valuation. Most holding ETC, previous ETH holders, don't use /accept them. ETC has no development team. As an exchange listing ETC means taking on huge risks, as we have seen.

It seems hard-forks are not well understood, in particular in relation to source code publishing. I guess we will see what happens? As a merchant and exchange I think there are a lot of risks associated with ETC (and ETH I guess).

on long run ETH lost the credit liability, goodwill because the hate. The ETH investors don't like this. This is total damage  for the ethereum foundation.

I believe that ETC has already won. We waiting only for the right price.
for ETH is better to setup a holding company ETC / ETH

Only real people losing out is people that are holding hard fork ETH. ETC is ETH and you wonder why there is a bitcoin blocksize debate for over 2 years.

Problem with people saying that ETC is worthless is because they are invested in ETH and now that a hardfork has happen there are two chain and reply attacks. ETC is here to say and its more likely will gain ETH market shares.

Bitcoinica still has not given me 50% of my claim of 600 BTC
INTERSANGO can go down with bitcoinica for abandoning customers
Alberto Armandi is a SCAMMER
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July 30, 2016, 08:22:05 PM
 #1646

Ethf doesn't have killer apps either,

Stop the fucking comparison,everyone knows ETC is the real Ethereum & a decentralized crypto,not fiat.If any company wants to invest or build on ethf then it is clearly because ethf is a mutable centralized scam.

This is not a race to win or to put someone down.

yo
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July 30, 2016, 08:25:23 PM
 #1647

Next is getting actual dapps. Ethf doesn't have killer apps either, so the world is watching which chain gets profitable dapps.

Hey boss! Is there a way to verify and publish a solidity source code for ETC?

Also, I've a stagnant dapp build and published on the old Ethereum blockchain. How the dapp will react if I send ETC instead of ETH?

Looking forward to your feedback / Keep up the good work mate!
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July 30, 2016, 08:31:21 PM
 #1648

Next is getting actual dapps. Ethf doesn't have killer apps either, so the world is watching which chain gets profitable dapps.

Hey boss! Is there a way to verify and publish a solidity source code for ETC?

Also, I've a stagnant dapp build and published on the old Ethereum blockchain. How the dapp will react if I send ETC instead of ETH?

Looking forward to your feedback / Keep up the good work mate!

Tools are still being ported over, so far we have geth https://www.reddit.com/r/EthereumClassic/comments/4uwjad/1410_first_stable_release_of_the_ethereum_classic/

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July 30, 2016, 08:39:31 PM
 #1649

Next is getting actual dapps. Ethf doesn't have killer apps either, so the world is watching which chain gets profitable dapps.

Hey boss! Is there a way to verify and publish a solidity source code for ETC?

Also, I've a stagnant dapp build and published on the old Ethereum blockchain. How the dapp will react if I send ETC instead of ETH?

Looking forward to your feedback / Keep up the good work mate!

Tools are still being ported over, so far we have geth https://www.reddit.com/r/EthereumClassic/comments/4uwjad/1410_first_stable_release_of_the_ethereum_classic/

Thx! that's great 👍
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July 30, 2016, 08:39:55 PM
 #1650

Heads up... Looks like they are about to start the 51% attack:

https://forum.ethereum.org/discussion/8759/51-etc-attack-pool-mining-eth-until-hashrate-exceeds-etcs-0-fee#latest

I just looked at that pool they have setup.  So far 1 miner, 389mh. http://51pool.org/#/
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July 30, 2016, 08:43:07 PM
 #1651


Lol http://51pool.org/

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July 30, 2016, 08:43:24 PM
 #1652


who is attacking? been away awhile and now i see this, it's great has the attacker dumped any coins yet?
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July 30, 2016, 08:43:55 PM
 #1653


Yes, I don't see them dog piling into that pool yet...
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July 30, 2016, 08:44:59 PM
 #1654

Let's see how much money they like to lose in this heat

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July 30, 2016, 08:55:12 PM
 #1655

it's great has the attacker dumped any coins yet?
how can any motherfucker other than the super smart haxxor know answer to this question ?

yo
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July 30, 2016, 09:00:28 PM
 #1656

Ethf doesn't have killer apps either,

Stop the fucking comparison,everyone knows ETC is the real Ethereum & a decentralized crypto,not fiat.If any company wants to invest or build on ethf then it is clearly because ethf is a mutable centralized scam.

This is not a race to win or to put someone down.

Hay, thank you for vibrantly supporting ETC  Smiley
However, Please try to be a little more discreet with language?  School is out for summer and there are women as well as people under 18 years (and under 16 years) using this thread.  The Worlds youth are both budding coders as well as keen miners as the law often does not permit them to do paid work.  But they do have access to a gaming computer and mining = $.  Crypto makes for a good school project too!

I would like to express my concern that crypto is for everyone, No? -Yes?
Are we  going for mass adoption or are we keeping it in the darker parts of the net where only those in the know get a look-in?

I'm hoping ETC will be an inclusive organisation.
I hope you can help, Heutenamos

Warm wishes
Paula

@BitBanksy  hope you sort your dapp out

@bitpop What about a Killer dapp Competition with ETC prize money?  Crypto  Idol?  People could donate some prize money?  Community could vote on a winner?  Get a company to sponsor it maybe?

Just ideas

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July 30, 2016, 09:04:43 PM
 #1657


who is attacking? been away awhile and now i see this, it's great has the attacker dumped any coins yet?

I wouldnt dump until the price has been pushed much higher.

Would need more buy support.... u know, to make more.

But no one knows if he has control over them or not.


Also, is there any richlist yet?

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July 30, 2016, 09:06:18 PM
 #1658

Are we  going for mass adoption or are we keeping it in the darker parts of the net where only those in the know get a look-in?
and how does competing eth on every single step helps with this ? competing fiat makes sense though.

yo
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July 30, 2016, 09:24:09 PM
 #1659

Interesting. The 24hr volume on Polo for ETC is 2x ETH - 10k BTC / ETC vs 5112 BTC / ETH

This story is going to be interesting in the long run I guess.  Shocked
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July 30, 2016, 09:25:49 PM
 #1660


I think they might be wasting their time, and hashes  Smiley

Best they'll do is drive the difficulty up a bit.
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